3 replies to this topic

[Lazarus Long]

I think that in fact this area should be again divided between the perceived rate, the desired rate, and reasons for acceleleration or deceleration of the rate.

I also think that it would be helpful to continue the discussion here, and under a separate topic to "Define" Transhumanism.

I also recognize different and potentially competing trends and interests. Perhaps they too should be closely scrutinized.

Is this what you were trying to do with your last cryptic post in the Poll on Transhumanist Velocity, Michael?

[MichaelAnissimov]

Sorry, I didn't know I was being cryptic with the poll...the question should have been assumed to be about the *actual* rate of transhuman self-improvement, and wasn't supposed to have anything to do with the"desired rate". Personally, the date I *want* the Singularity to happen has no bearing whatsoever on the actual date when I think the Singularity will happen. If I really cared about making the Singularity happen, making decisions based on a bad model of the future would be quite counterproductive, wouldn't it?

If anyone wants to discuss the projected rate of self-improvement for a hypothetical entity, such as a seed AI, then please do so. To frame the prospective discussion, let me present a link which essentially sums up my argument, but I can elaborate on any desired points:

http://www.singinst....tro/impact.html

[Mind]

Although this will further drive the topic away from its intended path...I couldn't help but comment

But I don't think that this event will suddenly end the FTL limit for example, and while this will encourage reasonable expansion into our solar system it won't bring the stars.

Lazarus, I know you have a vivid imagination.

"Neither the phase velocities or group velocities of a wave packet are restricted below light speed" http://www.aei-potsd...nnelingftl.html

Also, if you believe in the big bang theory of the universe, then there are already objects travelling away from us at greater than the speed of light. In the big bang theory of the universe, objects at a greater distance expand away from us more rapidly, they eventually reach a distance where their apparent speed is faster than light and they "blink" out of the observable universe. Of course what is going on here is that spacetime is expanding faster than the speed of light. The actual velocity of the galaxy is not greater than c. But this does give us a clue on a potential "how to" of FTL. Just expand spacetime. (P.S. I am not actually "sold" on the big bang theory of the universe, I am just re-stating what others have postulated and explained)

Also, there is quantum entanglement(QE). Information, in this case, is travelling FTL since it is instantaneous. The actual particles in entanglement experiments are not travelling FTL, but information is. There are so many good resources on the web regarding QE. Here is one I just "googled up". It is a general description of a couple experiments: http://www.studyover...ked/quantum.htm

Here is something wierd to think about also. If Einstein's equations of relativity are valid and photons are actually particles with zero restmass and can travel at the speed of light...then within a photon's frame of reference it exists at every point in the universe simultaneously. This applies not only for one photon but for every photon that exists! Pretty wierd.

Now these are just a few things that the human mind has discovered about FTL. Just think what the "group mind" of all humans could come up with, or a superintelligence. I just have a feeling we will find a way around the speed of light (not a prediction...just a feeling).

[Lazarus Long]

Discovered isn't quite the right word, theorized is still more appropriate. Even the cesium experiments in mirroring are inconclusive at best but offer a very fascinating set of probabilities if true.

Let me VERY clear about this, I have never once said and I defy anyone to find anything where I said FTL is impossible. All I said and I stick with it, is that there can be no singularity without FTL communications.

I also don't think we are that close to either a warp capable technology or that if we could go warp we would know how to navigate it. Patience grasshopper, first you must crawl before you can run, then once you are running we will teach you to fly. We have most of a century of Solar System development to address before we can seriously challenge warp.

Isn't that one of the reasons we want to live forever? To accomplish some of the kinds of things we are talking about doing requires a lot of time.

The Singularity however, is a concept that is inherently predicated on a "Simultaneous" awareness of existence. It is a single "I", not a lot of planetary AI's separated in space/time. I just figured the horse works better in front of the cart and wanted to remind everyone that is where it belongs. That said I will race you to the science and tech section to open a new topic for all this about Relativity, Quantum Mechanics and FTL.

For example if organic telepathy for twins is ever confirmed scientifically then I bet the quantum mirroring effect that is described in the experiment you cite will probably be involved. And the Theory of the big bang has many controversial aspects but while we do observe teh shock wave still receding it is not faster then light. By the way in physics the Big Bang was predicated on a Singularity too.