I think some of you will find why I like this news bit, maybe not. [ggg]
THE CYCLOPS MYTH IS REAL!!! *scream*
LongeCityAdvocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans
Evolution Happens
Started by
Cyto
, Oct 02 2002 07:55 PM
78 replies to this topic
#62
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Posted 11 February 2003 - 05:37 AM
This document is a compilement of many many many sources. In links to site and journals, Q&A and articles I have put on the document itself. A bunch of stuff is covered. No too organized but that will take more time.
Ill coin the title: Education for the Fundie, and there are a lot of them. Good thing they want to die.
If you want it then private message, email me, with your email address and Ill send thefull version.
--=Accept diversity=--
To a better educated world.
Ill coin the title: Education for the Fundie, and there are a lot of them. Good thing they want to die.
If you want it then private message, email me, with your email address and Ill send thefull version.
--=Accept diversity=--
To a better educated world.
Edited by XxDoubleHelixX, 12 February 2003 - 05:10 PM.
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Posted 11 February 2003 - 05:58 AM
Well now a page opens up at least but this link doesn't connect on my comp. Does it work for you when you click the attachment download?
Here is the actually link it goes to:
http://www.imminst.o...pe=post&id=6392
Whow, it took a while but I finally got a page of something but it came over as encrypted text. Weird.
Here is the actually link it goes to:
http://www.imminst.o...pe=post&id=6392
Whow, it took a while but I finally got a page of something but it came over as encrypted text. Weird.
#64
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Posted 12 February 2003 - 05:12 PM
Red squirrels are rapidly evolving in response to global warming - they are the first animals in which such genetic changes have been seen. The discovery could bode well for other species struggling to adapt to new conditions, say researchers.
Andrew McAdam, at the University of Alberta, Canada, and colleagues monitored four generations of squirrels in the Yukon, Canada, over 10 years. They found that female squirrels now give birth on average 18 days earlier in the year than their great-grandmothers.
Some one is getting a little extra...heheheh. [ph34r]
GO! SUIRRELS! GO!
This article has more detail
Andrew McAdam, at the University of Alberta, Canada, and colleagues monitored four generations of squirrels in the Yukon, Canada, over 10 years. They found that female squirrels now give birth on average 18 days earlier in the year than their great-grandmothers.
Some one is getting a little extra...heheheh. [ph34r]
GO! SUIRRELS! GO!
This article has more detail
Edited by XxDoubleHelixX, 12 February 2003 - 11:08 PM.
#66
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Posted 12 February 2003 - 05:26 PM
Your Deity(s) BROKE my WEAPON! *curses* [angry]
A gene that once produced a small protein able to prevent HIV from infecting cells now lies unusable in the human genome, scientists have found. In addition to suggesting a new weapon in the battle against AIDS, this so-called pseudogene reignites speculation about why infection with HIV kills people but not nonhuman primates. Several years ago, researchers found that rhesus monkeys have a gene encoding a novel microbe-killing protein.
More recently, Robert I. Lehrer of the University of California, Los Angeles School of Medicine and his colleagues noticed that people have a closely related gene that's active in their bone marrow cells. Yet the human gene contains a mutation that prevents cells from completing manufacture of the protein it encodes.
In further test-tube experiments, Lehrer's group found that retrocyclin protects cells from infection by several distinct HIV strains. In the Feb. 19 Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the scientists report that the protein blocks the virus early in its infection cycle, perhaps preventing HIV from entering cells.
[uhh] Theres a invisable man who loves you? [uhh]
I say not.
A gene that once produced a small protein able to prevent HIV from infecting cells now lies unusable in the human genome, scientists have found. In addition to suggesting a new weapon in the battle against AIDS, this so-called pseudogene reignites speculation about why infection with HIV kills people but not nonhuman primates. Several years ago, researchers found that rhesus monkeys have a gene encoding a novel microbe-killing protein.
More recently, Robert I. Lehrer of the University of California, Los Angeles School of Medicine and his colleagues noticed that people have a closely related gene that's active in their bone marrow cells. Yet the human gene contains a mutation that prevents cells from completing manufacture of the protein it encodes.
In further test-tube experiments, Lehrer's group found that retrocyclin protects cells from infection by several distinct HIV strains. In the Feb. 19 Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the scientists report that the protein blocks the virus early in its infection cycle, perhaps preventing HIV from entering cells.
[uhh] Theres a invisable man who loves you? [uhh]
I say not.
#67
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Posted 18 February 2003 - 12:08 AM
From www.genome.org.
Oh how sweet it is:
The Genetic Core of the Universal Ancestor
J. Kirk Harris,1,2,4 Scott T. Kelley,1,4 George B. Spiegelman,3 and Norman R. Pace1,5
1 Department of Molecular, Cellular and Developmental Biology, University of Colorado, Boulder, Colorado 80309-0347, USA; 2 Graduate Group in Microbiology, University of California, Berkeley, Berkeley, California 94720, USA; 3 Department of Microbiology and Immunology, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada V6T 1Z3
Molecular analysis of conserved sequences in the ribosomal RNAs of modern organisms reveals a three-domain phylogeny that converges in a universal ancestor for all life. We used the Clusters of Orthologous Groups database and information from published genomes to search for other universally conserved genes that have the same phylogenetic pattern as ribosomal RNA, and therefore constitute the ancestral genetic core of cells. Our analyses identified a small set of genes that can be traced back to the universal ancestor and have coevolved since that time. As indicated by earlier studies, almost all of these genes are involved with the transfer of genetic information, and most of them directly interact with the ribosome. Other universal genes have either undergone lateral transfer in the past, or have diverged so much in sequence that their distant past could not be resolved. The nature of the conserved genes suggests innovations that may have been essential to the divergence of the three domains of life. The analysis also identified several genes of unknown function with phylogenies that track with the ribosomal RNA genes. The products of these genes are likely to play fundamental roles in cellular processes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 These authors contributed equally to this work.
5 Corresponding author.
and...
A Recent Polyploidy Superimposed on Older Large-Scale Duplications in the Arabidopsis Genome
Guillaume Blanc, Karsten Hokamp, and Kenneth H. Wolfe1
Department of Genetics, Smurfit Institute, University of Dublin, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland
The Arabidopsis genome contains numerous large duplicated chromosomal segments, but the different approaches used in previous analyses led to different interpretations regarding the number and timing of ancestral large-scale duplication events. Here, using more appropriate methodology and a more recent version of the genome sequence annotation, we investigate the scale and timing of segmental duplications in Arabidopsis. We used protein sequence similarity searches to detect duplicated blocks in the genome, used the level of synonymous substitution between duplicated genes to estimate the relative ages of the blocks containing them, and analyzed the degree of overlap between adjacent duplicated blocks. We conclude that the Arabidopsis lineage underwent at least two distinct episodes of duplication. One was a polyploidy that occurred much more recently than estimated previously, before the Arabidopsis/Brassica rapa split and probably during the early emergence of the crucifer family (24-40 Mya). An older set of duplicated blocks was formed after the monocot/dicot divergence, and the relatively low level of overlap among these blocks indicates that at least some of them are remnants of a larger duplication such as a polyploidy or aneuploidy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Corresponding author.
and...
Genomic DNA Insertions and Deletions Occur Frequently Between Humans and Nonhuman Primates
Kelly A. Frazer,1 Xiyin Chen, David A. Hinds, P.V. Krishna Pant, Nila Patil, and David R. Cox
Perlegen Sciences, Mountain View, California 94043, USA
Comparative DNA sequence studies between humans and nonhuman primates will be important for understanding the genetic basis of the phenotypic differences between these species. Here we compare ~27 Mb of human chromosome 21 with chimpanzee DNA sequences identifying 57 genomic rearrangements (deletions and insertions ranging in size from 0.2 to 8.0 kb) between the two species. These rearrangements are distributed along the entire length of chromosome 21, with ~35% found in genomic intervals encoding genes (genic intervals), and have occurred in the genomes of both humans and chimpanzees. Comparison of ~9 Mb of human chromosome 21 with orangutan, rhesus macaque, and woolly monkey DNA sequences identified a combined total of 114 genomic rearrangements between humans and nonhuman primates. Analysis of these rearrangements revealed that they are randomly distributed with respect to genic and nongenic intervals and identified one deletion that has likely resulted in the inactivation of a gene (1,3-galactosyltransferase) in the woolly monkey. Our data show that genomic rearrangements have occurred frequently during primate genome evolution and significantly contribute to the DNA differences between these species. These DNA rearrangements are commonly found in genic intervals, and thus provide natural starting points for focused investigations of qualitative and quantitative gene expression differences between humans and other primates.
[Supplemental material is available online at www.genome.org.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Corresponding author.
Oh how sweet it is:
The Genetic Core of the Universal Ancestor
J. Kirk Harris,1,2,4 Scott T. Kelley,1,4 George B. Spiegelman,3 and Norman R. Pace1,5
1 Department of Molecular, Cellular and Developmental Biology, University of Colorado, Boulder, Colorado 80309-0347, USA; 2 Graduate Group in Microbiology, University of California, Berkeley, Berkeley, California 94720, USA; 3 Department of Microbiology and Immunology, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada V6T 1Z3
Molecular analysis of conserved sequences in the ribosomal RNAs of modern organisms reveals a three-domain phylogeny that converges in a universal ancestor for all life. We used the Clusters of Orthologous Groups database and information from published genomes to search for other universally conserved genes that have the same phylogenetic pattern as ribosomal RNA, and therefore constitute the ancestral genetic core of cells. Our analyses identified a small set of genes that can be traced back to the universal ancestor and have coevolved since that time. As indicated by earlier studies, almost all of these genes are involved with the transfer of genetic information, and most of them directly interact with the ribosome. Other universal genes have either undergone lateral transfer in the past, or have diverged so much in sequence that their distant past could not be resolved. The nature of the conserved genes suggests innovations that may have been essential to the divergence of the three domains of life. The analysis also identified several genes of unknown function with phylogenies that track with the ribosomal RNA genes. The products of these genes are likely to play fundamental roles in cellular processes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 These authors contributed equally to this work.
5 Corresponding author.
and...
A Recent Polyploidy Superimposed on Older Large-Scale Duplications in the Arabidopsis Genome
Guillaume Blanc, Karsten Hokamp, and Kenneth H. Wolfe1
Department of Genetics, Smurfit Institute, University of Dublin, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland
The Arabidopsis genome contains numerous large duplicated chromosomal segments, but the different approaches used in previous analyses led to different interpretations regarding the number and timing of ancestral large-scale duplication events. Here, using more appropriate methodology and a more recent version of the genome sequence annotation, we investigate the scale and timing of segmental duplications in Arabidopsis. We used protein sequence similarity searches to detect duplicated blocks in the genome, used the level of synonymous substitution between duplicated genes to estimate the relative ages of the blocks containing them, and analyzed the degree of overlap between adjacent duplicated blocks. We conclude that the Arabidopsis lineage underwent at least two distinct episodes of duplication. One was a polyploidy that occurred much more recently than estimated previously, before the Arabidopsis/Brassica rapa split and probably during the early emergence of the crucifer family (24-40 Mya). An older set of duplicated blocks was formed after the monocot/dicot divergence, and the relatively low level of overlap among these blocks indicates that at least some of them are remnants of a larger duplication such as a polyploidy or aneuploidy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Corresponding author.
and...
Genomic DNA Insertions and Deletions Occur Frequently Between Humans and Nonhuman Primates
Kelly A. Frazer,1 Xiyin Chen, David A. Hinds, P.V. Krishna Pant, Nila Patil, and David R. Cox
Perlegen Sciences, Mountain View, California 94043, USA
Comparative DNA sequence studies between humans and nonhuman primates will be important for understanding the genetic basis of the phenotypic differences between these species. Here we compare ~27 Mb of human chromosome 21 with chimpanzee DNA sequences identifying 57 genomic rearrangements (deletions and insertions ranging in size from 0.2 to 8.0 kb) between the two species. These rearrangements are distributed along the entire length of chromosome 21, with ~35% found in genomic intervals encoding genes (genic intervals), and have occurred in the genomes of both humans and chimpanzees. Comparison of ~9 Mb of human chromosome 21 with orangutan, rhesus macaque, and woolly monkey DNA sequences identified a combined total of 114 genomic rearrangements between humans and nonhuman primates. Analysis of these rearrangements revealed that they are randomly distributed with respect to genic and nongenic intervals and identified one deletion that has likely resulted in the inactivation of a gene (1,3-galactosyltransferase) in the woolly monkey. Our data show that genomic rearrangements have occurred frequently during primate genome evolution and significantly contribute to the DNA differences between these species. These DNA rearrangements are commonly found in genic intervals, and thus provide natural starting points for focused investigations of qualitative and quantitative gene expression differences between humans and other primates.
[Supplemental material is available online at www.genome.org.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Corresponding author.
#69
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Posted 18 February 2003 - 04:56 AM
and who said what about evolution being a fairy-tale?
Hi there DoubleHelix. Very well done on picking some of the best papers relevant to evolution I have seen in recent months. The universal ancestor study is particularly exciting, being in a field that it is notoriously hard to make progress in.
Just out of interest, do these forums get many evolution denyers? I know they have been conspicuously absent from the Internet Infidels, where I moderate the evolution forums. Do you have many, or do you chase them off with facts and evidence?
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Posted 18 February 2003 - 04:03 PM
I have tried my best to get the Fundies in here.... strangely enough; they are a rare occurrence... I have a theory though - I think those of the fundamentalist mindset lack a critical ingredient or impetus to search out the truth, thus they are a less likely to take the time to respond to a forum such as ours.[Fundies = Christian Fundamentalist]Just out of interest, do these forums get many evolution denyers? I know they have been conspicuously absent from the Internet Infidels, where I moderate the evolution forums. Do you have many, or do you chase them off with facts and evidence?
I do receive via quick email now and again the ol' 'you're going the hell' kinda stuff.. and 'god does not want us to live forever' - but nothing very serious as of yet...
However, here are a couple of interesting topics from immortalist doubters.
[>] Immortality, a Philosophical Joust, Joshua Hublar vs. Bruce J. Klein
http://www.imminst.o...T&f=57&t=757&s=
(After repeated attempts, I fear Joshua has given up on this discussion however)
[>] Objections From An Atheist: Fear of Death: (Anonymous)
http://www.imminst.o...=1&t=857&hl=&s=
#71
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Posted 19 February 2003 - 11:30 PM
Ran accross this today, interesting. And over-ride mechanism in neurons which viruses use. I wonder if this could have anything to do with virulent strains way back down the road of evolution, maybe we just borrowed it. heh. Course I dont doubt that things can evolve more then once like chlorophyl A interesing though if it is how we got the ability.
Neuron's can act like viruses
"When a virus infects a cell, its goal is to make more virus particles. To do this, a virus takes over the cell’s protein making machinery (the ribosome), so that the cell essentially becomes a viral protein factory. It does this by using an internal ribosome entry site (IRES); which shuts down and bypasses the normal mechanisms that regulate binding of messenger RNAs to ribosomes. While many viral messenger RNAs are known to possess an IRES, few normal cellular RNAs do. Abnormal IRES regulation has been correlated with two human diseases- multiple myeloma and Charcot-Marie-Tooth disease. This is the first time that scientists have demonstrated that normal nerve cells can use an IRES to produce large quantities of protein under physiological conditions."
Neuron's can act like viruses
"When a virus infects a cell, its goal is to make more virus particles. To do this, a virus takes over the cell’s protein making machinery (the ribosome), so that the cell essentially becomes a viral protein factory. It does this by using an internal ribosome entry site (IRES); which shuts down and bypasses the normal mechanisms that regulate binding of messenger RNAs to ribosomes. While many viral messenger RNAs are known to possess an IRES, few normal cellular RNAs do. Abnormal IRES regulation has been correlated with two human diseases- multiple myeloma and Charcot-Marie-Tooth disease. This is the first time that scientists have demonstrated that normal nerve cells can use an IRES to produce large quantities of protein under physiological conditions."
Edited by XxDoubleHelixX, 19 February 2003 - 11:32 PM.
#72
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Posted 28 February 2003 - 06:28 AM
Scientists with the U.S. Department of Energy's Joint Genome Institute (JGI) in Walnut Creek, Calif., and the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) have developed a powerful new technique for deciphering biological information encoded in the human genome.
Called "phylogenetic shadowing," this technique enables scientists to make meaningful comparisons between DNA sequences in the human genome and sequences in the genomes of apes, monkeys, and other nonhuman primates. With phylogenetic shadowing, scientists can now study biological traits that are unique to members of the primate family. . .
Lets find the ancestor's core
Called "phylogenetic shadowing," this technique enables scientists to make meaningful comparisons between DNA sequences in the human genome and sequences in the genomes of apes, monkeys, and other nonhuman primates. With phylogenetic shadowing, scientists can now study biological traits that are unique to members of the primate family. . .
Lets find the ancestor's core
#73
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Posted 10 March 2003 - 09:26 AM
http://channels.nets.../believeindevil
Is There a Devil? Find Out Who Says So
Look to your left. Look to your right. Chances are both people you see believe in the devil and hell.
We are a nation of believers. A Harris Poll surveyed 2,201 American adults about their religious beliefs and found out some fascinating information. Most Christians--not surprisingly--believe in God, the survival of the soul after death, miracles, heaven, the Virgin birth, and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. But more than half of all adults also believe in ghosts. About a third believe in astrology. And more than a quarter believe they were reincarnated from other people who walked on this Earth generations ago.
This is what your friends and neighbors believe in:
God: 90 percent
Miracles: 89 percent
Survival of the soul after death: 84 percent
Resurrection of Christ: 80 percent
Virgin birth: 77 percent
Devil: 68 percent
Hell: 69 percent
Ghosts: 51 percent
Astrology: 31 percent
Reincarnation: 27 percent
Where will you go after you die?
Expect to go to heaven: 63 percent
Expect to go to hell: 1 percent
Expect to go to purgatory: 6 percent
Expect to go someplace else: 11 percent
Don't have a clue: 18 percent
Here are some fun facts from The Harris Poll:
Women are more likely than men to hold both Christian and non-Christian beliefs.
African-Americans are more likely than whites and Hispanics to hold Christian beliefs.
Republicans are more likely to hold Christian beliefs than members of other political parties.
The level of religious belief is generally highest among people without a college education and lowest among those with postgraduate degrees.
Not all people who call themselves Christians actually hold conventional Christian beliefs. For example, 1 percent of Christians do not believe in God and 8 percent do not believe in the survival of the soul after death.
More than a quarter of those who say they are not Christian do believe in the resurrection of Jesus and the Virgin birth.
--Cathryn Conroy
Is There a Devil? Find Out Who Says So
Look to your left. Look to your right. Chances are both people you see believe in the devil and hell.
We are a nation of believers. A Harris Poll surveyed 2,201 American adults about their religious beliefs and found out some fascinating information. Most Christians--not surprisingly--believe in God, the survival of the soul after death, miracles, heaven, the Virgin birth, and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. But more than half of all adults also believe in ghosts. About a third believe in astrology. And more than a quarter believe they were reincarnated from other people who walked on this Earth generations ago.
This is what your friends and neighbors believe in:
God: 90 percent
Miracles: 89 percent
Survival of the soul after death: 84 percent
Resurrection of Christ: 80 percent
Virgin birth: 77 percent
Devil: 68 percent
Hell: 69 percent
Ghosts: 51 percent
Astrology: 31 percent
Reincarnation: 27 percent
Where will you go after you die?
Expect to go to heaven: 63 percent
Expect to go to hell: 1 percent
Expect to go to purgatory: 6 percent
Expect to go someplace else: 11 percent
Don't have a clue: 18 percent
Here are some fun facts from The Harris Poll:
Women are more likely than men to hold both Christian and non-Christian beliefs.
African-Americans are more likely than whites and Hispanics to hold Christian beliefs.
Republicans are more likely to hold Christian beliefs than members of other political parties.
The level of religious belief is generally highest among people without a college education and lowest among those with postgraduate degrees.
Not all people who call themselves Christians actually hold conventional Christian beliefs. For example, 1 percent of Christians do not believe in God and 8 percent do not believe in the survival of the soul after death.
More than a quarter of those who say they are not Christian do believe in the resurrection of Jesus and the Virgin birth.
--Cathryn Conroy
#75
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Posted 18 March 2003 - 09:52 PM
[>] Can You smell it? I sure can't.
3/18/2003 -- In at least one type of endeavor, humans can't even begin to compete with their best friends. Dogs can be trained to sniff out drugs and explosives or to track down a crime suspect by smell. Why can't we do the same? Scientists from the Weizmann Institute of Science and the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology propose an explanation for this ancient quandary.
Here is another cool one...
[>] Cotton polyploid
3/18/2003 -- Researchers led by an Iowa State University professor have uncovered a genetic pattern in cotton that is likely to have implications for other crops, including corn and soybeans
3/18/2003 -- In at least one type of endeavor, humans can't even begin to compete with their best friends. Dogs can be trained to sniff out drugs and explosives or to track down a crime suspect by smell. Why can't we do the same? Scientists from the Weizmann Institute of Science and the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology propose an explanation for this ancient quandary.
Here is another cool one...
[>] Cotton polyploid
3/18/2003 -- Researchers led by an Iowa State University professor have uncovered a genetic pattern in cotton that is likely to have implications for other crops, including corn and soybeans
Edited by XxDoubleHelixX, 18 March 2003 - 10:00 PM.
#77
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Posted 28 March 2003 - 09:04 PM
Hey check this...
Ok we are all familiar i think about the RNA world theory well on top of some present support for it here is a little more.
Molecular virologists at Purdue Unviersity found a RNA motor in a bacteria-killing virus called Phi 29. It utilizes 6 RNA molecules to shuffle around genes by lysing ATP. Since ATP was originally thought to be just for protein use this now adds to the fact (in my opinion) that we are from the RNA world.
Source: Scientific American April 2003 pg 32
Go hydrothermal vents!
Ok we are all familiar i think about the RNA world theory well on top of some present support for it here is a little more.
Molecular virologists at Purdue Unviersity found a RNA motor in a bacteria-killing virus called Phi 29. It utilizes 6 RNA molecules to shuffle around genes by lysing ATP. Since ATP was originally thought to be just for protein use this now adds to the fact (in my opinion) that we are from the RNA world.
Source: Scientific American April 2003 pg 32
Go hydrothermal vents!
Edited by XxDoubleHelixX, 28 March 2003 - 09:05 PM.
#78
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Posted 31 March 2003 - 02:50 AM
Here is something to always have in mind...
If a person can get a PhD in "Physical Touch Therapy" (Science Channel, Critical Eye: Acupuncture - reiki - gemstone therapy. 3-30-03 6:30-7:30 MST)
remember to always clarify what they are "so well educated in" - it could be squat. heh.
And how could you even do that? I mean, "I faith-healed 60 people (told them they were ok now). Give me the PhD."
Oh, and they don't even touch them, they hover.
If a person can get a PhD in "Physical Touch Therapy" (Science Channel, Critical Eye: Acupuncture - reiki - gemstone therapy. 3-30-03 6:30-7:30 MST)
remember to always clarify what they are "so well educated in" - it could be squat. heh.
And how could you even do that? I mean, "I faith-healed 60 people (told them they were ok now). Give me the PhD."
Oh, and they don't even touch them, they hover.
Edited by XxDoubleHelixX, 31 March 2003 - 02:54 AM.
#79
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Posted 31 March 2003 - 06:55 AM
Looking around in char rooms and around on the web I have seen an increase (their dumping more donation money into this) in false statements at creationist websites that actually want to be taken seriously. Since I revolve around molecular education I must address this well known creationist site. I may address more later down the road.
This is the section on the Double Helix ( HERE )
I looked up a book from Thomas Paine titled The Age of Reason (1795) doing a word count I found it, with just the text, to have a character count (w/o spaces) of 287,944. The E. coli chromosome has about 3 million. We are really talking about 10.5 books here. Even if I were to use a kids book it still wouldn't be "more than the world's largest library." Also, the metaphore of "information" is simply trying to subconciously select for the easier to understand - biochemical interactions throught molecular assortment or "information. They prey on the laymen/women.
-----------------------
Some more narrow, metaphorical segments:
Oh my, numerous? Then it must be created, forget the billions of years. ::role eyes::
Kicking a dead horse here. Scrolling down after all the slanted comparisons to human tech.
---------------------------
Wrong, RNA interference along with other catalyctic uses of RNA show that RNA world is a vaild theory. And no, science is not "baffled" by the cross-talk of tRNA and mRNA.
----------------------
Your jumping ahead here, it was first RNA. But yes, arose around hydrothermal vents where no light can reach it.
Your right, your "information" metaphore puts it in a context that doesn't fit the nature of what we are really talking about. If only they had learned from this.
Bull crud, give some real counter evidence. Natural processes can be ordered, so assuming they are always random is far from it. Elements have electromagnetic fields which can make them more innate tward combining with others thus generating chemical stock which predictable events can occur. And the last part is just dumb.
This is the section on the Double Helix ( HERE )
We now understand that there are approximately 35,000 genes in each human DNA molecule, comprised of approximately 3 billion chemical bases arranged in precise sequence. Even the DNA molecule for the single-celled bacterium, E. coli, contains enough information to fill all the books in any of the world's largest libraries.
I looked up a book from Thomas Paine titled The Age of Reason (1795) doing a word count I found it, with just the text, to have a character count (w/o spaces) of 287,944. The E. coli chromosome has about 3 million. We are really talking about 10.5 books here. Even if I were to use a kids book it still wouldn't be "more than the world's largest library." Also, the metaphore of "information" is simply trying to subconciously select for the easier to understand - biochemical interactions throught molecular assortment or "information. They prey on the laymen/women.
-----------------------
Some more narrow, metaphorical segments:
numerous base chemicals attached in pairs
Oh my, numerous? Then it must be created, forget the billions of years. ::role eyes::
The four bases that make up the stairs in the spiraling staircase
combining into complex sequences to form the words, sentences and paragraphs that act as instructions to guide the formation and functioning of the host cell
Kicking a dead horse here. Scrolling down after all the slanted comparisons to human tech.
---------------------------
Although DNA code is remarkably complex, it's the information translation system connected to that code that really baffles science. Like any language, letters and words mean nothing outside the language convention used to give those letters and words meaning. This is modern information theory at its core.
Wrong, RNA interference along with other catalyctic uses of RNA show that RNA world is a vaild theory. And no, science is not "baffled" by the cross-talk of tRNA and mRNA.
----------------------
We now know that the DNA molecule is an intricate message system. To claim that DNA arose by random material forces is to say that information can arise by random material forces. Many scientists argue that the chemical building blocks of the DNA molecule can be explained by natural evolutionary processes.
Your jumping ahead here, it was first RNA. But yes, arose around hydrothermal vents where no light can reach it.
However, they must realize that the material base of a message is completely independent of the information transmitted. Thus, the chemical building blocks have nothing to do with the origin of the complex message. As a simple illustration, the information content of the clause "nature was designed" has nothing to do with the writing material used, whether ink, paint, chalk or crayon. In fact, the clause can be written in binary code, Morse code or smoke signals, but the message remains the same, independent of the medium. There is obviously no relationship between the information and the material base used to transmit it.
Your right, your "information" metaphore puts it in a context that doesn't fit the nature of what we are really talking about. If only they had learned from this.
DNA Double Helix: Its Existence Alone Defeats any Theory of Evolution
The scientific reality of the DNA double helix can single-handedly defeat any theory that assumes life arose from non-life through materialistic forces. Evolution theory has convinced many people that the design in our world is merely "apparent" -- just the result of random, natural processes. However, with the discovery, mapping and sequencing of the DNA molecule, we now understand that organic life is based on vastly complex information code, and such information cannot be created or interpreted without a Master Designer at the cosmic keyboard.
Bull crud, give some real counter evidence. Natural processes can be ordered, so assuming they are always random is far from it. Elements have electromagnetic fields which can make them more innate tward combining with others thus generating chemical stock which predictable events can occur. And the last part is just dumb.
Edited by XxDoubleHelixX, 31 March 2003 - 08:06 AM.
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