15 replies to this topic

[neogenic]

http://www.lef.org/V...n-Irvingia.html

If you've got the new LEF magazine or go to http://www.LEF.org its the cover story. The new find of "lifetime". It promises 28 pounds weight loss in 10 weeks, according to a study. They have this compound by itself and one with the fucoxanthin/pomegranate called "Slim Signals" and it will probably sell like crazy. Personally, I've had great results using fucoxanthin.

While I have not had time to delve in to what irvingia really is and what the actual studies are...and I will...I just thought I'd open the thread up for discussion and thoughts.

[neogenic]

Irvingia gabonensis - African tree with edible yellow fruit resembling mangos; valued for its oil-rich seed and hardy green wood that resists termites.
That's what it is and apparently this is one of the big studies that LEF draws it's claims from.

Inhibition of Irvingia gabonensis seed extract (OB131) on adipogenesis as mediated via down regulation of the PPARgamma and Leptin genes and up-regulation of the adiponectin gene
http://www.lipidworl.../content/7/1/44

Effects of Irvingia grandifolia, Urena lobata and Carica papaya on the Oxidative Status of Normal Rabbits

http://www.ispub.com...l6n2/status.xml

The use of a Cissus quadrangularis/Irvingia gabonensis combination in the management of weight loss: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

http://www.lipidworl.../content/7/1/12

[edward]

28 pounds in 10 weeks is probably a bit extreme and on the edge of unhealthy (2-3 lbs per week being about the max in terms of losing fat not muscle)

That being said...


Irvingia Gabonesis is some pretty interesting stuff. Seems to have the benefits of multiple other substances (salvia milt, hoodia, pine bark, green tea, even rumored to be a PPAR agonist etc.) all in one

There is a good discussion of it over at Mind and Muscle:

http://www.mindandmu...amp;hl=Irvingia

It appears thought that the LEF dosage is a bit low. If the stuff could be had in bulk cheaply (which no doubt it can be just give it time) it should be a pretty cool supp.

Edited by edward, 03 December 2008 - 09:01 PM.

[neogenic]

28 pounds in 10 weeks is probably a bit extreme and on the edge of unhealthy (2-3 lbs per week being about the max in terms of losing fat not muscle)

That being said...


Irvingia Gabonesis is some pretty interesting stuff. Seems to have the benefits of multiple other substances (salvia milt, hoodia, pine bark, green tea, even rumored to be a PPAR agonist etc.) all in one

There is a good discussion of it over at Mind and Muscle:

http://www.mindandmu...amp;hl=Irvingia

It appears thought that the LEF dosage is a bit low. If the stuff could be had in bulk cheaply (which no doubt it can be just give it time) it should be a pretty cool supp.

Edward, do you know what it is standardized for? What would separate a good Irvingia from a not so good one?

[neogenic]

I just read through that thread and it reminds me why I like this board so, so much. There are intelligent people there, and I know people post on both here, but the "feel" is so much different. So much less of a "pissing" contest and more of respectful debate here. Really compared to nearly all other boards, this board shines. Reps, Owners, and "trolls" don't seem to be as pervasive here as many other boards I frequent. A giant kudos to the board with its members and those that manage it.

Complete aside.

Back to the research...

That is interesting, this clinical trial, that posted yesterday...
http://clinicaltrial...how/NCT00645775

This study discusses that myristic acid & lauric acid have the big impact on lipids typically, but aren't sure if that's the case here. The tocopherol, tocotrienol, and phytosterol content are also of note for the authors.
http://www.medwelljo...005/592-594.pdf
The study I posted above that has cissus paired with it is a bit confounding, but I don't know too many people that experienced dramatic body composition change with cissus, so most, anecdotally, of the effects would be thought to be attributable to the Irvingia.

Anyone plan on buying either LEF product? Has anyone already done so?

[edward]

I am waiting for a bulk product (if enough buzz is created then someone will start selling bulk) to order for some family members who want to shed that stubborn last 10 pounds and keep it off or keep off the weight that they have already lost or want to prevent weight gain associated with aging. Personally on my low carb paleo diet my bodyfat is about as low as it can be. Its always nice to have tools though if I go nuts and relax my dietary restrictions at some point. Also as an aside, there are many overlaps between obesity/metabolic mechanisms and life extension that makes compounds that influence one have the potential to influence the other so I try to keep up with obesity research.

And no I have no clue as to what this stuff is standardized to or what the active compounds are. My hunch is there is more than one due to the multiple actions.

Edited by edward, 04 December 2008 - 08:43 PM.

[neogenic]

I am waiting for a bulk product (if enough buzz is created then someone will start selling bulk) to order for some family members who want to shed that stubborn last 10 pounds and keep it off or keep off the weight that they have already lost or want to prevent weight gain associated with aging. Personally on my low carb paleo diet my bodyfat is about as low as it can be. Its always nice to have tools though if I go nuts and relax my dietary restrictions at some point. Also as an aside, there are many overlaps between obesity/metabolic mechanisms and life extension that makes compounds that influence one have the potential to influence the other so I try to keep up with obesity research.

And no I have no clue as to what this stuff is standardized to or what the active compounds are. My hunch is there is more than one due to the multiple actions.

Yes, I am thinking the same things with the two fatty acids and tocotrienols/tocopherols/phytosterols.

I saw this debated on M&M, the extract in the LEF product is 150mg. Some of these studies use 3-4 grams. An extract of what to what standardization? Clearly at that dose the fatty acids would be merely inconsequential if that is a mechanism. It odd to say "extract", but not explain the extraction or standardization. If extract just means the same thing as the study compound...well...underdosed is an UNDERstatement. The other thread was saying 4-6 times less? I guess it depends of dosing frequency, but the LEF product is 150mg per serving. At 3 servings a day, you'd need 10x the dose the provided unless...UNLESS...there is an active...and the "extract" means higher potency of what is doing these mechanisms of action.

As an aside I like fucoxanthin, but I started seeing more compelling effects when I dosed it at about 3x as much as Garden of Life/LEF recommends. I was doing 15mg of Fuco a shot 2-3 times a day. The effects were multiplicative. So this product may work, but you may have to really jack up the dose and it is already expensive.

What other foods do you find high amounts of those 2 fatty acids in?

[edward]

I doubt its the fatty acids that are having the effects especially at 300mg per day of the extract and even at 3 g of the extract I doubt it.

If interested though:

Lauric acid (also called Dodecanoic acid) is the main acid in coconut oil (45 - 50 percent) and palm kernel oil (45 - 55 percent). Nutmeg butter is rich in myristic acid (also called Tetradecanoic acid ) which constitutes 60-75 percent of the fatty-acid content

[neogenic]

I doubt its the fatty acids that are having the effects especially at 300mg per day of the extract and even at 3 g of the extract I doubt it.

If interested though:

Lauric acid (also called Dodecanoic acid) is the main acid in coconut oil (45 - 50 percent) and palm kernel oil (45 - 55 percent). Nutmeg butter is rich in myristic acid (also called Tetradecanoic acid ) which constitutes 60-75 percent of the fatty-acid content

Coconut has research saying it increased testosterone and enhanced fat loss...partly thought due to MCTs. Nutmeg can alter the testosterone:estrogen ratio (If I remember right negatively), but then there's research that seems contrary...
Aphrodisiac activity of 50% ethanolic extracts of Myristica fragrans Houtt. (nutmeg) and Syzygium aromaticum (L) Merr. & Perry. (clove) in male mice: a comparative study

Apparently Coconut oil is high in both lauric and myristic acids.

Effects of coconut oil on testosterone-induced prostatic hyperplasia in Sprague-Dawley rats
Authors: de Lourdes Arruzazabala, María1; Molina, Vivian1; Más, Rosa1; Carbajal, Daisy1; Marrero, David1; González, Víctor1; Rodríguez, Eduardo1
Source: Journal of Pharmacy and Pharmacology, Volume 59, Number 7, July 2007 , pp. 995-999(5)
Publisher: Pharmaceutical Press

Abstract:
Benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) is the benign uncontrolled growth of the prostate gland, leading to difficulty with urination. Saw palmetto lipid extracts (SPLE), used to treat BPH, have been shown to inhibit prostate 5a-reductase, and some major components, such as lauric, myristic and oleic acids also inhibit this enzyme. Coconut oil (CO) is also rich in fatty acids, mainly lauric and myristic acids. We investigated whether CO prevents testosterone-induced prostate hyperplasia (PH) in Sprague-Dawley rats. Animals were distributed into seven groups (10 rats each). A negative control group were injected with soya oil; six groups were injected with testosterone (3 mg kg−1) to induce PH: a positive control group, and five groups treated orally with SPLE (400 mg kg−1), CO or sunflower oil (SO) (400 and 800 mg kg−1). Treatments were given for 14 days. Rats were weighed before treatment and weekly thereafter. Rats were then killed and the prostates were removed and weighed. CO (400 and 800 mg kg−1), SPLE (400 mg kg−1) and SO at 800 mg kg−1, but not at 400 mg kg−1, significantly reduced the increase in prostate weight (PW) and PW:body weight (BW) ratio induced by testosterone (% inhibition 61.5%, 82.0%, 43.8% and 28.2%, respectively). Since CO and SPLE, but not SO, contain appreciable concentrations of lauric and myristic acids, these results could be attributed to this fact. In conclusion, this study shows that CO reduced the increase of both PW and PW:BW ratio, markers of testosterone-induced PH in rats.

Coconut has the aphrodisiac properties too when I was searching, which is interesting...not necessarily related, but interesting.

Aphrodisiac Properties of Coconut

Many in the modern, developed world scoff at the idea that coconut could be an aphrodisiac. But in the Caribbean, coconut has a reputation as a love enhancer. And recent research from the National University of Singapore reveals that coconut is loaded with compounds that boost the action of testosterone.
In a recent paper on Novel Phytoandrogens in Eucommia, researchers described two classes of plant-based compounds that increase the activity of testosterone in animals. One class includes a series of short chained fatty acids including caproic, caprylic and heptanoic acid. These fatty compounds (which are copulins previously discussed here at Aphrodisiology) increase the activity of testosterone. And coconut is a particularly rich source.

The researchers even went as far as to suggest a possible link between diets high in coconuts (or other related compounds in meat) as a possible contributor to certain cancers (breast, prostate). While such a link is theoretically possible, it would result only from excessive consumption of coconut oil (which also has some anti-cancer and anti-viral properties). I personally think the occasional Madras curry might be a good menu choice for a special date, with minimal risk.

[wayside]

I found this study:

The effect of Irvingia gabonensis seeds on body weight and blood lipids of obese subjects in Cameroon

which showed significant weight loss, *however*:

Although the percentage of body fat was not significantly reduced with both placebo and IG, the waist circumference (5.07 ± 3.18%; p < 0.0001) and hip circumference (3.42 ± 2.12%; p < 0,0001) were significantly reduced by IG.

So the subjects' body composition was not changing, which means they are losing muscle as well as fat.

Also:

The study was as a randomised, double blind placebo-controlled crossover design, and consisted of a 4-week treatment period.

however

Weight (kg)
Active 105.10 ± 16.98 102.3 ± 17.06 101.01 ± 16.63
Placebo 79.43 ± 9.83 79.43 ± 9.83 79.33 ± 10.63

the non-placebo group was 30=% heavier on average! This doesn't seem very random to me.

The improvements in blood lipids look really nice, however as they point out

Controlled double-blind [11,12] studies have shown that supplementation with several grams per day of soluble fibre significantly reduced total blood cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, and triglycerides and in some cases raised HDL cholesterol, these being comparable with effects noticed with Irvingia gabonensis.

If your goal is improving your cholesterol there are probably cheaper forms of soluble fiber.

[Mixter]

For one, it lowers fatty acid synthesis similar to what CLA does. Supposedly increasing adiponectin is the most interesting find.
The new irvingia paper isn't published in Nutrition Journal (nutritionj.org) yet, but when it comes out, this may be interesting.

Three possibilities as I see it, either that is mostly responsible for the higher observed significant weight loss, or the
bile salt binding is significantly better than with other fibers, or third, a synergy...

Irvingia + red rice yeast extract would at least get you the benefits of a normal cholesterol therapy, but safer;
the HDL boost is great, and LDL can't be too low (<40mg/dL are still ok and almost nobody reaches that,
http://www.redorbit....ant_be_too_low/ ).

PS: the combination with fucoxanthin makes it hard to tell from where you see any benefits... inducing UCP1 (mito decoupler) = far more powerful imo

The effect of Irvingia gabonensis seeds on body weight and blood lipids of obese subjects in Cameroon
Judith L Ngondi email, Julius E Oben email and Samuel R Minka email
Nutrition, HIV and Health Research Unit, Department of Biochemistry, P.O Box 812, Faculty of Science, University of Yaounde I, Cameroon

Like other soluble fibers, Irvingia gabonensis seed fibre can bind to bile acids in the gut and carry them out of the body in the faeces, which requires the body to convert more cholesterol into bile acids [10]. This can result in the lowering of blood cholesterol as well as other blood lipids. Controlled double-blind [11,12] studies have shown that supplementation with several grams per day of soluble fibre significantly reduced total blood cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, and triglycerides and in some cases raised HDL cholesterol, these being comparable with effects noticed with Irvingia gabonensis.

Edited by mixter, 05 December 2008 - 07:19 PM.

[neogenic]

For one, it lowers fatty acid synthesis similar to what CLA does. Supposedly increasing adiponectin is the most interesting find.
The new irvingia paper isn't published in Nutrition Journal (nutritionj.org) yet, but when it comes out, this may be interesting.

Three possibilities as I see it, either that is mostly responsible for the higher observed significant weight loss, or the
bile salt binding is significantly better than with other fibers, or third, a synergy...

Irvingia + red rice yeast extract would at least get you the benefits of a normal cholesterol therapy, but safer;
the HDL boost is great, and LDL can't be too low (<40mg/dL are still ok and almost nobody reaches that,
http://www.redorbit....ant_be_too_low/ ).

PS: the combination with fucoxanthin makes it hard to tell from where you see any benefits... inducing UCP1 (mito decoupler) = far more powerful imo

The effect of Irvingia gabonensis seeds on body weight and blood lipids of obese subjects in Cameroon
Judith L Ngondi email, Julius E Oben email and Samuel R Minka email
Nutrition, HIV and Health Research Unit, Department of Biochemistry, P.O Box 812, Faculty of Science, University of Yaounde I, Cameroon

Like other soluble fibers, Irvingia gabonensis seed fibre can bind to bile acids in the gut and carry them out of the body in the faeces, which requires the body to convert more cholesterol into bile acids [10]. This can result in the lowering of blood cholesterol as well as other blood lipids. Controlled double-blind [11,12] studies have shown that supplementation with several grams per day of soluble fibre significantly reduced total blood cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, and triglycerides and in some cases raised HDL cholesterol, these being comparable with effects noticed with Irvingia gabonensis.

The LEF product is available solo or with the fucoxanthin, as "Slim Signals". The adiponectin thing is interesting to me as well.

[mustardseed41]

I found this interesting post on another forum I frequent:

Here's the 10 week study the article talks about

http://lipidworld.com/content/7/1/12

Here's the 30 day study

http://www.lipidworl.../content/4/1/12 Both of these studies on irvingia gabonensis were conducted by Julius Oben, which raises huge red flags to me. Oben is the researcher behind a study earlier this year showing that cissus quadrangularis was effective as a fat loss aid.

After digging around, I found that Oben, the lead researcher, is actually employed at Gateway Health Alliances Inc, which supplied all the testing materials (and probably funded) all of these studies (if you search, you'll find "All testing materials were supplied by Gateway Health Alliances"). Apparently, they've hired Oben as the "Chief Scientific Officer" at Gateway. How's that for impartial.

In addition, Oben holds a patent on Cissus' use as a weight loss aid: http://patft.uspto.g....S=PN/7,175,859. Oben is the "inventor" and Gateway Health Alliances is the assignee. Apparently Oben and Gateway Health Alliances have been working together since as early as 2000.

In 2006, Oben published a similar study "The use of a Cissus quadrangularis formulation in the management of weight loss and metabolic syndrome". In that study he used a different product from Gateway Health Alliances called Cylaris. It was a mixture of several ingredients including cissus. Of course, it had amazing results, results that Gateway Health Alliances relies on heavily in their marketing: http://www.cylarisweightloss.com/

This doesn't mean that Oben's research is necessarily bogus, but can you tell me why an American corporation is having an obscure university in a poor West African country do all the research on their products, while simultaneously employing the lead researcher? Smells like bad fish to me.

Further, how reputable is "Lipids in Health and Disease", the journal that these were studies were published in? From a dispute about Cylaris: Quote: The challenger also informed ERSP that studies were published only in an online journal and its description as a "peer reviewed journal" is highly circumspect due to its anonymous, on-line submission of potential peer reviewers, the significant processing fee and the relatively short time (i.e., 50 days) between submission to a journal and publication. Some things to think about.

[neogenic]

I found this interesting post on another forum I frequent:

Here's the 10 week study the article talks about

http://lipidworld.com/content/7/1/12

Here's the 30 day study

http://www.lipidworl.../content/4/1/12 Both of these studies on irvingia gabonensis were conducted by Julius Oben, which raises huge red flags to me. Oben is the researcher behind a study earlier this year showing that cissus quadrangularis was effective as a fat loss aid.

After digging around, I found that Oben, the lead researcher, is actually employed at Gateway Health Alliances Inc, which supplied all the testing materials (and probably funded) all of these studies (if you search, you'll find "All testing materials were supplied by Gateway Health Alliances"). Apparently, they've hired Oben as the "Chief Scientific Officer" at Gateway. How's that for impartial.

In addition, Oben holds a patent on Cissus' use as a weight loss aid: http://patft.uspto.g....S=PN/7,175,859. Oben is the "inventor" and Gateway Health Alliances is the assignee. Apparently Oben and Gateway Health Alliances have been working together since as early as 2000.

In 2006, Oben published a similar study "The use of a Cissus quadrangularis formulation in the management of weight loss and metabolic syndrome". In that study he used a different product from Gateway Health Alliances called Cylaris. It was a mixture of several ingredients including cissus. Of course, it had amazing results, results that Gateway Health Alliances relies on heavily in their marketing: http://www.cylarisweightloss.com/

This doesn't mean that Oben's research is necessarily bogus, but can you tell me why an American corporation is having an obscure university in a poor West African country do all the research on their products, while simultaneously employing the lead researcher? Smells like bad fish to me.

Further, how reputable is "Lipids in Health and Disease", the journal that these were studies were published in? From a dispute about Cylaris: Quote: The challenger also informed ERSP that studies were published only in an online journal and its description as a "peer reviewed journal" is highly circumspect due to its anonymous, on-line submission of potential peer reviewers, the significant processing fee and the relatively short time (i.e., 50 days) between submission to a journal and publication. Some things to think about.

Whoa. Nice find. Thanks for that. I agree while it doesn't write everything off...it does make me skeptical. I will wait to hear the feedback in this case. The feedback with the Slim Signals would be confounding as I know fucoxanthin works. I'd like to hear how Irvingia woks on its own.

[neogenic]

I found this interesting post on another forum I frequent:

Here's the 10 week study the article talks about

http://lipidworld.com/content/7/1/12

Here's the 30 day study

http://www.lipidworl.../content/4/1/12 Both of these studies on irvingia gabonensis were conducted by Julius Oben, which raises huge red flags to me. Oben is the researcher behind a study earlier this year showing that cissus quadrangularis was effective as a fat loss aid.

After digging around, I found that Oben, the lead researcher, is actually employed at Gateway Health Alliances Inc, which supplied all the testing materials (and probably funded) all of these studies (if you search, you'll find "All testing materials were supplied by Gateway Health Alliances"). Apparently, they've hired Oben as the "Chief Scientific Officer" at Gateway. How's that for impartial.

In addition, Oben holds a patent on Cissus' use as a weight loss aid: http://patft.uspto.g....S=PN/7,175,859. Oben is the "inventor" and Gateway Health Alliances is the assignee. Apparently Oben and Gateway Health Alliances have been working together since as early as 2000.

In 2006, Oben published a similar study "The use of a Cissus quadrangularis formulation in the management of weight loss and metabolic syndrome". In that study he used a different product from Gateway Health Alliances called Cylaris. It was a mixture of several ingredients including cissus. Of course, it had amazing results, results that Gateway Health Alliances relies on heavily in their marketing: http://www.cylarisweightloss.com/

This doesn't mean that Oben's research is necessarily bogus, but can you tell me why an American corporation is having an obscure university in a poor West African country do all the research on their products, while simultaneously employing the lead researcher? Smells like bad fish to me.

Further, how reputable is "Lipids in Health and Disease", the journal that these were studies were published in? From a dispute about Cylaris: Quote: The challenger also informed ERSP that studies were published only in an online journal and its description as a "peer reviewed journal" is highly circumspect due to its anonymous, on-line submission of potential peer reviewers, the significant processing fee and the relatively short time (i.e., 50 days) between submission to a journal and publication. Some things to think about.

Whoa. Nice find. Thanks for that. I agree while it doesn't write everything off...it does make me skeptical. I will wait to hear the feedback in this case. The feedback with the Slim Signals would be confounding as I know fucoxanthin works. I'd like to hear how Irvingia woks on its own.

Just bumping this thread too. There have been no threads on irvingia in 6 months on this board.

[lynx]

28 pounds in 10 weeks is probably a bit extreme and on the edge of unhealthy (2-3 lbs per week being about the max in terms of losing fat not muscle)

What is 3 X 10?