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Supplements that cause hair loss


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#1 TheFountain

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 10:16 AM


What supplements increase DHT production and thus increase the chances of accelerated hairloss?

#2 hamishm00

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 11:32 AM

DHEA is one.

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#3 seekonk

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 01:41 PM

What supplements increase DHT production and thus increase the chances of accelerated hairloss?


Resveratrol and quercetin.

It has been claimed (search qeddarkstorm's posts on the subject) that these supplements can sufficiently inhibit aromatase (or act as a SERM) as to cause joint pain in some people. Aromatase inhibitors (and certain SERMS, I believe) lead (via HPTA feedback) to increases in testosterone and DHT. In fact, many bodybuilding supplements contain resveratrol precisely because of this purported mechanism of action.

#4 TheFountain

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 01:44 PM

Excessive Vitamin A also causes increased DHT production. I wonder if all of us retinoid users should be weary of this.

Or else we could start taking DHT inhibitors, if any exist that actually work.

Edited by TheFountain, 10 June 2009 - 01:44 PM.


#5 Ben

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 01:46 PM

Certain steroids.

#6 seekonk

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 01:50 PM

Or else we could start taking DHT inhibitors, if any exist that actually work.


Finasteride and dutasteride work well. However, at usual dosages they work too well and lead to unfortunate side effects.

#7 TheFountain

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 02:09 PM

Or else we could start taking DHT inhibitors, if any exist that actually work.


Finasteride and dutasteride work well. However, at usual dosages they work too well and lead to unfortunate side effects.


Are the side effects immediate, transient, permanent? And what if someone cycled them?

EDIT: I assume the number one worrysome side effect of these drugs would be sexual impotence. I wonder if it lasts for as long as the supplement is taken or if it comes in transient phases.

Edited by TheFountain, 10 June 2009 - 02:21 PM.


#8 seekonk

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 02:24 PM

Or else we could start taking DHT inhibitors, if any exist that actually work.


Finasteride and dutasteride work well. However, at usual dosages they work too well and lead to unfortunate side effects.


Are the side effects immediate, transient, permanent? And what if someone cycled them?


Yes (for some), yes (others), and yes (others). With usual doses of finasteride, DHT usually (but not always) normalizes 2 weeks after stopping. With dutasteride's long ahlf life, it usually takes 3-6 months for DHT to normalize, so cycling is not practical.

The problem with these medications is that, at usual doses, it brings DHT down to almost castrate leves. The body needs DHT for various physiological functions. If you could find a dose that only slightly lowered DHT, that might work, but it is very difficult. For example, for finasteride, even 1/20 of the usually prescribed dose of 1mg will eventually lower DHT just as much as 1mg does. The dose-response curve for DHT suppression has a very square curve, and it would be difficult to get the dose at the correct part of the (steep) slope, which would anyway fall at different doses for different patients.

#9 seekonk

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 02:28 PM

I assume the number one worrysome side effect of these drugs would be sexual impotence. I wonder if it lasts for as long as the supplement is taken or if it comes in transient phases.


In addition to impotence, loss of libido, gynecomastia, brain fog, depression, and low ejaculate volume are also commonly reported. For some it is transient, for others it lasts until a couple of weeks of stopping the drug (in the case of finasteride). Some report long-term hormonal issues and concomitant dysfunction after stopping the drug.

Edited by seekonk, 10 June 2009 - 02:30 PM.


#10 hamishm00

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 02:40 PM

I still think topical DHT inhibitors are the way to go. No way would I mess with endogenous DHT levels.

#11 TheFountain

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 02:49 PM

I still think topical DHT inhibitors are the way to go.

Such as?

#12 seekonk

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 02:50 PM

I still think topical DHT inhibitors are the way to go. No way would I mess with endogenous DHT levels.


I agree, but one should be careful. For example, topical finasteride and dutasteride are both well-absorbed systemically and (in studies I have seen for finasteride) can significantly affect systemic DHT levels.

#13 tham

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 04:11 PM

The usual supplements which inhibit 5-alpha reductase,
as used against BPH and prostate cancer may help -
GLA, pygeum, saw palmetto, pumpkin seed oil, nettle root, etc.


http://www.revivogen...earch/index.php


http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum



Extract from Royal Palm.

http://cat.inist.fr/...cpsidt=18488030

http://en.wikipedia....Roystonea_regia

#14 platypus

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 05:12 PM

What supplements increase DHT production and thus increase the chances of accelerated hairloss?


Resveratrol and quercetin.

Can you provider any references for this, or is it common knowledge already? A lot of people here are taking both but I don't remember seeing reports about accelerated hair loss.

#15 Sciolaro

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 12:14 AM

Or else we could start taking DHT inhibitors, if any exist that actually work.


Finasteride and dutasteride work well. However, at usual dosages they work too well and lead to unfortunate side effects.


Are the side effects immediate, transient, permanent? And what if someone cycled them?


Yes (for some), yes (others), and yes (others). With usual doses of finasteride, DHT usually (but not always) normalizes 2 weeks after stopping. With dutasteride's long ahlf life, it usually takes 3-6 months for DHT to normalize, so cycling is not practical.

The problem with these medications is that, at usual doses, it brings DHT down to almost castrate leves. The body needs DHT for various physiological functions. If you could find a dose that only slightly lowered DHT, that might work, but it is very difficult. For example, for finasteride, even 1/20 of the usually prescribed dose of 1mg will eventually lower DHT just as much as 1mg does. The dose-response curve for DHT suppression has a very square curve, and it would be difficult to get the dose at the correct part of the (steep) slope, which would anyway fall at different doses for different patients.


1 mg of Fin daily reduces DHT approximately 70% according this source:
http://www.pharmacyr...de-avodart.html

What physiological functions is DHT necessary for once genitals are completely mature?

#16 zorba990

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 12:30 AM

What supplements increase DHT production and thus increase the chances of accelerated hairloss?


Resveratrol and quercetin.

Can you provider any references for this, or is it common knowledge already? A lot of people here are taking both but I don't remember seeing reports about accelerated hair loss.


Not in my experience. Quite the opposite as far as I can tell with both color and thickness.

#17 TheFountain

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 03:40 AM

The usual supplements which inhibit 5-alpha reductase,
as used against BPH and prostate cancer may help -
GLA, pygeum, saw palmetto, pumpkin seed oil, nettle root, etc.


http://www.revivogen...earch/index.php


http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum



Extract from Royal Palm.

http://cat.inist.fr/...cpsidt=18488030

http://en.wikipedia....Roystonea_regia


What I am noticing in common amongst some of these is estrogenic properties. So essentially you have to become a girl to stop hair loss?

#18 hamishm00

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 09:07 AM

I still think topical DHT inhibitors are the way to go.

Such as?


See http://www.imminst.o...mp;hl=hair loss

#19 sUper GeNius

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 09:24 AM

The usual supplements which inhibit 5-alpha reductase,
as used against BPH and prostate cancer may help -
GLA, pygeum, saw palmetto, pumpkin seed oil, nettle root, etc.


http://www.revivogen...earch/index.php


http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum



Extract from Royal Palm.

http://cat.inist.fr/...cpsidt=18488030

http://en.wikipedia....Roystonea_regia


What I am noticing in common amongst some of these is estrogenic properties. So essentially you have to become a girl to stop hair loss?


I've been taking finestaride for years to prevent hair loss. About seven years ago I was on the way to becoming the cue ball that my dad and brother were. I started taking 1 mg daily. My hair grew back and is now very thick. I *lost* most of the hair on my back too, a plus! No side-effects that I am aware of. Hopefully I will also have a lower risk of prostrate cancer too. I currently maintenance dose at about a milligram every other day or so.

Edited by FuLL meMbeR, 11 June 2009 - 09:25 AM.


#20 seekonk

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 03:04 PM

What physiological functions is DHT necessary for once genitals are completely mature?


The opposite of the above listed side effects, among others. DHT is known to play a role in erections and libido, it acts as an anti-estrogen to prevent breast growth and other estrogen-dominance issues, it appears to affect mood, it affects ejaculate quality and volume, and so on.

Some people seem to get along fine with artificially lowered levels of DHT. For others, it is devastating.

I took finasteride for 10 years and never consciously noticed side effects. It was only when I eventually stopped (and my libido rebounded) that I realized that it had been significantly affecting my libido.

Edited by seekonk, 11 June 2009 - 03:12 PM.


#21 seekonk

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 03:31 PM

What I am noticing in common amongst some of these is estrogenic properties. So essentially you have to become a girl to stop hair loss?


Pretty much yes, except for minoxidil, which works quite well for some, and does so via a non-hormonal mechanism.

#22 sentrysnipe

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 05:15 PM

What I am noticing in common amongst some of these is estrogenic properties. So essentially you have to become a girl to stop hair loss?


Pretty much yes, except for minoxidil, which works quite well for some, and does so via a non-hormonal mechanism.



That's why TOPICAL IS THE BEST!!!
Actually, what FOLLICA (the only hair loss cure company by Dr. Cotsarelis) DOESN'T WANT TO TELL YOU is that their EGFR inhibitor has a natural counterpart - GENISTEIN - a phytoestrogen which also happens to be an EGFR inhibitor.

You can regrow hair and grow new hair follicles by: [dermaroller (epidermal deep) OR acid exfoliation with (TCA | AHA)] + EGFR inhibitor / tyrosine kinase inhibitor (gefitinib | genistein)


#23 justagame

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 07:19 AM

DHT is known to play a role in erections and libido..


Just to clarify, it is the reduction of DHT that causes a rise in Estrogen, which in turn affects erections and libido.

DHT itself has no proven direct effect on this kind of stuff.

EDIT: Actually, DHT apparently helps regulate Nitric Oxide, which means it could affect erections..

Edited by justagame, 13 June 2009 - 07:22 AM.


#24 Logan

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 12:48 PM

What I am noticing in common amongst some of these is estrogenic properties. So essentially you have to become a girl to stop hair loss?


Pretty much yes, except for minoxidil, which works quite well for some, and does so via a non-hormonal mechanism.



That's why TOPICAL IS THE BEST!!!
Actually, what FOLLICA (the only hair loss cure company by Dr. Cotsarelis) DOESN'T WANT TO TELL YOU is that their EGFR inhibitor has a natural counterpart - GENISTEIN - a phytoestrogen which also happens to be an EGFR inhibitor.

You can regrow hair and grow new hair follicles by: [dermaroller (epidermal deep) OR acid exfoliation with (TCA | AHA)] + EGFR inhibitor / tyrosine kinase inhibitor (gefitinib | genistein)


autogolous platelet rich plasma + dermaroller = possible significant hair growth and hair loss prevention

google it..i think the doctor that started this is Dr Joseph Greco...it is brand new and may require repeat treatments every 6 months to a year. i believe it is fairly affordabl. the only problem is finding a doctor in your area that has caught on to possibly the latest greatest hair loss treatment.

Edited by morganator, 13 June 2009 - 12:55 PM.


#25 seekonk

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 05:07 PM

DHT is known to play a role in erections and libido..


Just to clarify, it is the reduction of DHT that causes a rise in Estrogen, which in turn affects erections and libido.

DHT itself has no proven direct effect on this kind of stuff.


I don't disagree with the plausibility of the estrogen-mediated mechanism but I don't quite get your point when you say that there is an effect but that it is not direct. What makes an effect direct? Even viagra's effect on erections is not direct, if one wants to split hairs this way.

Anyway, here is an abstract related to the other point (direct mechanism ;) ) you mentioned:

Dihydrotestosterone is the active androgen in the maintenance of nitric oxide-mediated penile erection in the rat.
Lugg JA, Rajfer J, González-Cadavid NF. Department of Surgery, University of California at Los Angeles (UCLA) School of Medicine, Harbor-UCLA Medical Center, Torrance 90509.

Androgens are essential for the expression of normal libido in the male, but their role in the maintenance of the erectile response in humans is controversial. It has been shown previously in the rat that castration induces 1) loss of penile reflexes; and 2) considerable reduction in the erectile response to electric field stimulation (EFS) of the cavernosal nerve. Both of these effects can be reversed by testosterone replacement. The current study was performed to determine whether these testosterone effects are mediated via its conversion to dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and to what extent the synthesis of the mediator of penile erection, nitric oxide, is affected by castration and androgen replacement. Five-month-old rats were either castrated or left intact. The orchiectomized rats were implanted with SILASTIC brand silicon tubing (Dow Corning) containing testosterone or DHT with or without daily injections of the 5 alpha-reductase inhibitor finasteride. After 7 days, rats were submitted to EFS and the intracavernosal pressure was recorded. Castration reduced the EFS-induced erectile response by 50% in comparison with intact rats and testosterone restored this decrease to normal. When finasteride was given to these testosterone-treated castrate rats, erectile response was not restored. DHT was as effective as testosterone in restoring response to EFS in castrates and this effect was not decreased by finasteride. Nitric oxide synthase activity in the penile cytosol was measured by the arginine-citrulline conversion and was found to correlate with the EFS determinations. These results show that DHT is the active androgen in the prevention of erectile failure seen in castrated rats, and suggest that this effect may be mediated, at least partially, by changes in nitric oxide synthase levels in the penis.


Edited by seekonk, 13 June 2009 - 05:17 PM.


#26 sentrysnipe

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 07:03 PM

autogolous platelet rich plasma + dermaroller = possible significant hair growth and hair loss prevention
google it..i think the doctor that started this is Dr Joseph Greco...it is brand new and may require repeat treatments every 6 months to a year. i believe it is fairly affordabl. the only problem is finding a doctor in your area that has caught on to possibly the latest greatest hair loss treatment.


YES, I have learned about Dr. Greco's work 2 months ago. The problem with PRP is it has EGF, among other growth factors - which I believe is counterproductive. EGF induces hair loss.

You need to have PRP treatment again after a year to ensure the growth of the hair. It's not permanent.

#27 fatboy

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 01:36 AM

Exogenous testosterone supplementation can accelerate hairloss if you're genetically predisposed to it.

Or else we could start taking DHT inhibitors, if any exist that actually work.


God no. Start mucking with DHT and you're really asking for trouble if you're a man.

In addition to impotence, loss of libido, gynecomastia, brain fog, depression, and low ejaculate volume are also commonly reported. For some it is transient, for others it lasts until a couple of weeks of stopping the drug (in the case of finasteride). Some report long-term hormonal issues and concomitant dysfunction after stopping the drug.


Yeah, that. :|w

Just to clarify, it is the reduction of DHT that causes a rise in Estrogen, which in turn affects erections and libido.


Not directly, but yes.

#28 seekonk

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 06:13 PM

You need to have PRP treatment again after a year to ensure the growth of the hair. It's not permanent.


What worries me about the dermaroller solutions is that it seems that, with every repeat of the treatment, you will have more and more scar tissue on the scalp. Seems that you might eventually end up with one solid piece of scar tissue and no hair. Or is this not how it will work?

#29 TheFountain

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 03:22 PM

Exogenous testosterone supplementation can accelerate hairloss if you're genetically predisposed to it.


Taking something like saw palmetto would prevent DHT binding in multiple receptor sites and in the prostate without causing infertility by blocking circulating estradiol concentrations at the same time. Making sure you don't have a zinc deficiency would also be helpful.

'treatment of patients for 3 months with saw palmetto preceding prostatectomy caused a reduction in DHT levels in BPH tissue along with a corresponding rise in testosterone levels. A marked reduction in epidermal growth factor concentration was also observed in the periurethral region of the prostate. 24'

http://www.drugs.com...w-palmetto.html

Edited by TheFountain, 22 June 2009 - 03:28 PM.


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#30 seekonk

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 04:22 PM

Taking something like saw palmetto would prevent DHT binding in multiple receptor sites and in the prostate without causing infertility by blocking circulating estradiol concentrations at the same time.


First I've heard that S.P. blocks estradiol. Do you have a reference handy for that?




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