12 replies to this topic

[advancedatheist]

I can't vouch for the claim in this story that MJ had cryonics arrangements that he somehow "missed."

http://www.dailymail...-freezing.html#

Michael Jackson set to be 'plastinated' after missing the deadline for cryogenic freezing

By Daily Mail Reporter and Allan Hall

Last updated at 7:21 PM on 26th June 2009

Michael Jackson will live on as a 'plastinated' creature preserved by controversial German doctor Gunther von Hagens after missing the deadline for cryogenic freezing.

It was widely believed that the singer, who died yesterday from a heart attack, was interested in having his body frozen in the hope he could later be brought back to life.

However, it is now likely to be too late for his wish to be granted as the freezing process - cryonics - must be initiated almost immediately after death but an autopsy on Jackson's body still needs to be carried out.

Von Hagens, who has caused widespread controversy with his practice of preserving corpses with polyurethane, today declared: 'An agreement is in place to plastinate the King of Pop.'

Von Hagens said that he spoke with representatives of the Jackson family 'many months ago' and it was agreed that his body will be plastinated and placed next to Bubbles, his late pet monkey who was also plastinated a number of years ago and is currently exhibited at The Body Worlds & Mirror Of Time exhibition at the O2 in London.

Refuted by everyone from the pope to the chief rabbi in Israel, 'plastination' is when corpses are embalmed with preserving polyurethane and frozen forever.

In contrast, cryonics is the cooling of legally dead people to liquid nitrogen temperature where physical decay essentially stops, with the idea that technology developed in the future will be able to revive them.

No-one has ever been revived using this process although it is a popular subject in science fiction films such as Forever Young featuring Mel Gibson.

Despite this, cryogenic freezing has become more popular over time.

Media mogul Simon Cowell caused headlines recently after he said that he wanted to undergo the process.

'Medical science is bound to work out a way of bringing us back to life in the next century or so, and I want to be available when they do,' he said.

Speaking of Michael's final requests, Dr von Hagens also confirmed that he wanted to be reunited with Bubbles.

'There is no better place than to do this at the venue where Jackson was due to perform his world record 50-date tour,' said a spokesman for von Hagens.

He added: 'Whilst von Hagens is keen to keep the pose of the superstar's plastinate under wraps, he hinted that the moonwalk position would naturally be favoured.

'It is hoped the exhibit will be unveiled towards the end of July for all fans to visit and pay their respects.'

Cryogenic freezing is offered in America by the Alcor Life Extension Foundation and Cryonics Institute.

Between them, they currently have 178 frozen patients and 1,000 members signed up to the scheme.

How cryonics works

The medical process is a complicated one. Immediately after a cryonic patient's death certificate is signed by a doctor, a cryonics team restores the heartbeat and respiration using a machine to help keep cells in organs and tissues alive.

The patient's body is then cooled from body temperature (37C) to 10C as quickly as possible using ice.
Mel Gibson

Mel Gibson played a character from the 1930s who was frozen for 60 years in the 1992 film Forever Young

Medication is added to their bloodstream to help preserve the body.

Blood is then removed from the body and replaced with a saline-like solution that stops the shrinking or swelling of cells and tissues.

Anti-freeze agents are added to the blood vessels and the body is placed in a special cooling box where it is cooled to between -120C and -196C and stored away.

However, for this process to have any chance of working, the cryonic process must be started just minutes after 'legal death' is verified by doctors.

This is because a dead person's brain will start to experience a build-up of lactic acid at room temperature. Within 24 hours it will have virtually dissolved.

So with an autopsy on Michael Jackson expected 24 hours after his death, it's already too late for the Peter Pan of pop who never wanted to grow up.

[Loot Perish]

I heard that he also liked to get "plastered" back when he was alive. Wine. he called it jesus juice. And when he got plastered he did not talk in that high voice, but in a regular voice, and he would cuss too.

Whattaya think bout that?

[Mind]

Nice neutral article on cryonics. I like that they explained the process of how a person is cryopreserved. One thing I am reminded of is the autopsy - required in many states - is a significant legal hurdle for cryonicists. I don't see how the societal knowledge of the cause of death even remotely outweighs an individuals right to their desired state after deanimation. If there is no hint of foul play, why the heck is an autopsy required.

[erzebet]

although i regret that he can't be cryopreserved, i would love his body to be plastified. this pain i feel now would be easier to bear :((

[Cyberbrain]

Can his brain and a sample of his DNA still be cryopreserved?

I think Alcor should do their best to at least get ahold of these two things if he is to have any chance of coming back.

[DJS]

Nice neutral article on cryonics. I like that they explained the process of how a person is cryopreserved. One thing I am reminded of is the autopsy - required in many states - is a significant legal hurdle for cryonicists. I don't see how the societal knowledge of the cause of death even remotely outweighs an individuals right to their desired state after deanimation. If there is no hint of foul play, why the heck is an autopsy required.

Because in a society where the logic of cryonics is obscure, there is no negative cost involved in 'due diligence'.

Fortunately (or, in most other contexts, unfortunately), there's one set of traditional values in our society which tends to trump all others - religion.

Hence the strategy:

[bgwowk]

If there is no hint of foul play, why the heck is an autopsy required.

With the possible exception of the military, I don't know any jurisdiction in the U.S. that requires an autopsy for every death. The cost would be prohibitive. Every county has a Medical Examiner or Coroner's office. These offices are tasked with investigating unnatural or unexpected deaths. There are rules for what deaths are reportable or not reportable to the Coroner's office. Most aren't. Even when deaths are reportable, often the Coroner can complete the investigation without autopsy. Cryonics organizations will negotiate for the quickest and least invasive (to the body) investigation possible. Filling out a Religious Objection to Autopsy,

http://www.alcor.org...iousbelief.html

a document formally recognized by five states, is helpful.

[erzebet]

i thought religious people are quite opposed with "playing god" but the strategy is good

[Cyberbrain]

Nice neutral article on cryonics. I like that they explained the process of how a person is cryopreserved. One thing I am reminded of is the autopsy - required in many states - is a significant legal hurdle for cryonicists. I don't see how the societal knowledge of the cause of death even remotely outweighs an individuals right to their desired state after deanimation. If there is no hint of foul play, why the heck is an autopsy required.

Because in a society where the logic of cryonics is obscure, there is no negative cost involved in 'due diligence'.

Fortunately (or, in most other contexts, unfortunately), there's one set of traditional values in our society which tends to trump all others - religion.

Hence the strategy:

That's quite brilliant to for a cryonics group to use religion as an excuse to be cryopreserved (even thought they're all probably agnostic) ... I may join them! :D

[VictorBjoerk]

wait, they say the following: "Despite this, cryogenic freezing has become more popular over time"

isn't cryonics something very very rare though to undergo? it must be far less than one in 1000 dead people that are cryopreserved?

[Shannon Vyff]

I'm still hoping that he had private cryonics arrangements, but depending on how he would have filled out his paperwork any of the current cryonics organizations would still work to preserve him--or be involved with discussions over what an acceptable limit is or not and the media would not know about it if he had specified he wanted it to be kept private. I think it is odd that doctor Gunther von Hagens would make a public statement saying he was going to plasticize Michael Jackson, it almost seems like it is being made for the media attention--I think anyone working with the family would want to keep things private out of respect for his family and his children.

It was widely believed that the singer, who died yesterday from a heart attack, was interested in having his body frozen in the hope he could later be brought back to life.

However, it is now likely to be too late for his wish to be granted as the freezing process - cryonics - must be initiated almost immediately after death but an autopsy on Jackson's body still needs to be carried out.

[Cyberbrain]

isn't cryonics something very very rare though to undergo? it must be far less than one in 1000 dead people that are cryopreserved?

About 2000 people worldwide are signed up to be cryopreserved and less then 200 people are actually cryopreserved. Exact stats are on Alcor's web page.

[Ben Simon]

I'm inclined to think this whole story is totally bogus. They say that it is too late for him to be cryo preserved, which is plainly bullshit. It had been less than twenty four hours when that story was published. They will take you months after the fact if that's your arrangement.