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Vitamin A


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14 replies to this topic

Poll: Retinol (18 member(s) have cast votes)

Retinol

  1. yes (15 votes [83.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 83.33%

  2. no (3 votes [16.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

Vote

#1 ajnast4r

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 12:54 AM


Vitamin A as Retinol

Edited by ajnast4r, 29 October 2009 - 01:04 AM.


#2 ajnast4r

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 02:08 AM

my suggestion is 500iu, ~16% DRI as palmitate

#3 nameless

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 05:59 PM

If the Weston Price theory is accurate, would a little more retinol be worthwhile, assuming vitamin D levels are acceptable in most of the people here (and target audience for multi)? The argument against retinol has to do with bone issues/hip fractures, if I remember right. Buf if D levels are normal in most of the people taking the multi, what is the argument against, say, 1000-2000IU of retinol?

I think most people (who eat properly) get enough beta carotene from diet, but don't think people eat a lot of livers.

Edited by nameless, 29 October 2009 - 06:00 PM.


#4 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 06:42 PM

If the Weston Price theory is accurate then alot more retinol would be worthwhile. However, this is sort of a fringe idea (even though I subscribe to it), which I think makes it inappropriate as a basis for formulation.

Also when there is some doubt whether to go higher or lower with the dose of a component of this supplement, its better to err on the low side, since people can always take more of something separately, but they cannot "take out" any excess.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 29 October 2009 - 06:43 PM.


#5 nameless

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 06:50 PM

Yeah, Weston Price doses would be much higher. But I'm not sure if 1000IU or so, would really be a problem for most people. Just wondering why not bump it up a bit, seeing as a decent percentage here probably aren't big on livers or even dairy, probably.

#6 kismet

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 06:51 PM

The argument against retinol has to do with bone issues/hip fractures, if I remember right. Buf if D levels are normal in most of the people taking the multi, what is the argument against, say, 1000-2000IU of retinol?

Safety and parsimony (using the lowest amount which is definitely known or very strongly believed to be benefical or necessary). It's unethical to bet on someone's vitamin D levels for one thing. It's also unethical to bet on a hypothesis (it's not a theory as, say, the influence of vitamin D on CVD or the TOE) and risk the health of people who are unaware of the evidence or lack thereof.

--although, I'm not saying that the suggested amount is too high or too low (I don't know if we're talking overall, per capsule/serving and how many caps would make a serving).

Edited by kismet, 29 October 2009 - 06:54 PM.


#7 nameless

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 06:55 PM

Safety and parsimony (using the lowest amount which is definitely known or very strongly believed to be benefical or necessary). It's unethical to bet on someone's vitamin D levels for one thing. It's also unethical to bet on a hypothesis (it's not a theory as, say, the influence of vitamin D on CVD or the TOE) and risk the health of people who are unaware of the evidence or lack thereof.


True. Although seeing as a semi-decent dose of D3 probably will be in the product too, at least major D deficiencies may be avoided.

Suggested dosage should be overall for product, not capsule (or so I am lead to believe).

Also when there is some doubt whether to go higher or lower with the dose of a component of this supplement, its better to err on the low side, since people can always take more of something separately, but they cannot "take out" any excess.


Assuming it is multi-cap, which it sort of has to be, then they could in a way take out excess if they wanted to.

Edited by nameless, 29 October 2009 - 07:11 PM.


#8 kismet

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 07:25 PM

Well, but then we'd have something like the orthocore-folic acid dilemma. There's disproportionally much of it, ruining the multi even if you cut the dose.

#9 nameless

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 07:31 PM

Well, but then we'd have something like the orthocore-folic acid dilemma. There's disproportionally much of it, ruining the multi even if you cut the dose.

Also true, although I'm not sure if 1000IU of retinol really throws things that out of whack, since D3 is with the product too. Mentioned the multi-cap thing, in case it was a real concern for someone... as then they did have an option to reduce, even though perhaps it wasn't optimal.

#10 yoyo

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 10:49 PM

wouldn't retinol spare carotenoids from conversion?

#11 ajnast4r

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 10:58 PM

If the Weston Price theory is accurate then alot more retinol would be worthwhile. However, this is sort of a fringe idea (even though I subscribe to it), which I think makes it inappropriate as a basis for formulation.

Also when there is some doubt whether to go higher or lower with the dose of a component of this supplement, its better to err on the low side, since people can always take more of something separately, but they cannot "take out" any excess.


i agree

wouldn't retinol spare carotenoids from conversion?



depends how deficient or not the person is...carotenoids have functions in the body other than retinol sacrafice

Edited by ajnast4r, 29 October 2009 - 11:00 PM.


#12 shazam

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 07:14 AM

Anyone who know enough about vitamins to want to even bother with this product over their centrum, or who going to make the buying decision on "WHICH GIVES ME MORE OF THIS PER DOLLAR?" is... NOT BLOODY LIKELY to have terrible D levels.

I say put in 1000-2500 iu, derived from fish liver oil. Personally, my diet makes me a little A deficient. If there was a 5000iu liver derived product out there that was reasonably priced and trustable, you could bet I'd be using it. But if you go with a higher dose from carotenes, then somewhere in the area of 1500-2000 should be fine.

#13 lunarsolarpower

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 02:56 PM

Obviously it's essential to obtain Vitamin A but I think there is reason to play it safe with A, E and beta carotene levels.

Here's a quote:

Among low-bias trials, use of beta carotene, vitamin A, and vitamin E was associated with 7 percent, 16 percent and 4 percent, respectively, increased risk of mortality, whereas there was no increased mortality risk associated with vitamin C or selenium use.


It's hard to estimate the quantities consumed by those studied but clearly taking too much seems to be much worse than just doing whatever the average person is doing.

#14 eternaltraveler

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 03:24 PM

I'd put vitamin A in the form of retinol in the same category as Iron. Its one of the only vitamins with known potential to do real harm and even moderate supplementation appears to do some harm or at the least no good. Leave it out or put a trace amount in if you feel you should have vitamin A on the label.

Edited by eternaltraveler, 05 November 2009 - 03:25 PM.


#15 Johann

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 03:31 PM

Excessive vitamin A may affect Vitamin D absorption. Mercola has some good
thoughts on it. May have to enter an email address.




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