97 replies to this topic

[lunarsolarpower]

Every year people have to decide whether or not to be immunized for the seasonal flu. Usually one wants to look at the statistics of who the flu targets, the known side effects and determine whether the vaccine confers a net benefit. For older people and those with compromised immune systems the consensus is generally that it does. The H1N1 pandemic variant seems different. It seems to target the young and smokers rather than just the elderly and infants. The WHO says the virus is unstoppable now. Before panicking though consider that the response in 1976 was apparently worse than the disease.

It all reminds me of this:

IT’S A VIRUS

Back in the Pleistocene,
When we were still marine,
a virus launched a quest,
to be the perfect guest
And re-arranged our genes.

So to this very day,
Whether you grok or pray
all your inheritors
count on those visitors
And what they make you pay.

.
REFRAIN

It’s a virus,
It inspired us,
to rise above the mud.
It’s a virus,
It’s desirous,
of your very flesh and blood.

Now I know your body’s burning,
But don’t give up the ghost.
Tiny viruses are turning you
Into the perfect... host.

.
Though you may curse microbes
who make you blow your nose,
evolution bends
to what a virus sends,
making us recompose.

Though when you least expect
You may be struck down next
thank the virus, he
put us in misery,
But then he gave us sex!


It’s a virus,
Its inspired us,
to rise above the mud.
It’s a virus,
It’s desirous,
of your very flesh and blood.

Now I know your body’s burning,
But don’t give up the ghost.
Tiny viruses are turning you
Into the perfect... host.


endure...

[castrensis]

I will likely be subject to compulsory vaccination if H1N1 follows the pattern of the 1918 flu pandemic, with a fairly mild pandemic followed by a mutation several months later that resulted in a virulent strain that killed gobs of people; unusually, those who are young & healthy rather than the populations typically at risk for flu-related deaths: the elderly, ill & very young. I've not been keeping up on the news on the vaccine production front, but unless we've figured out something better than growing viruses in chicken eggs we're royally screwed. Of consideration is the number of chicken eggs required for the production of a vaccine to render the global population invulnerable to a more virulent strain of H1N1, the time required to produce that vaccine & the location of the vaccine producers. Largely, iirc, the vaccine production facilities lie in a select few countries. If we're able to fast-track a vaccine that will be effective against a more virulent strain of H1N1 don't expect to receive a vaccination until the entire populace of the vaccine-producer's country have received the vaccination - meaning that only a select few could receive the vaccine outside of the countries producing the vaccine.

So...perhaps the question isn't should I receive the vaccine, but rather will I have the opportunity to receive the vaccine?

[lunarsolarpower]

So...perhaps the question isn't should I receive the vaccine, but rather will I have the opportunity to receive the vaccine?

That's certainly an important part of it. Also the latest report is that it won't be coming out until at least November now.

[castrensis]

Likely not available in time for H1N1 in order to allow us to avoid inoculation, but promising broad-spectrum antivirals in development for treatment of a variety of viral infections, including influenza are a class of drug known as monoclonal antibodies, largely used as targeted therapies in certain malignancies.

Functional Genetics has demonstrated that FGI-101 can selectively identify or eliminate cells that have been infected with many virus types, including HIV-1 (including drug-resistant HIV), all forms of Influenza (both seasonal and pandemic), Respiratory Syncytial Virus (RSV), Parainfluenza virus (PIV), Herpes (HSV-1 and HSV-2) and Ebola virus.

Currently in Phase II clinical trials for Hepatitis C is Bavituximab, that works by targeting exposed phospholipids:

Phospholipids are normal molecular structures that are present in all cells of the human body...These phospholipids are also exposed on the outer surface of cells infected by a broad class of viruses known as enveloped viruses making them a specific target for the potential treatment of those diseases.

Bavituximab has also been shown to recognize a broad spectrum of enveloped viruses, a category that includes nearly half of the viruses that cause human disease. Data developed by Peregrine demonstrate that bavituximab binds to members of six different virus families. In addition to bovine viral diarrhea virus, a model for hepatitis C, these include influenza A and B, HIV 1 and 2, measles, respiratory syncytial virus and pichinde virus, a model for the deadly Lassa hemorrhagic fever.

Credit to NewScientist for an excellent article on these novel agents.

[alexd]

i have been ill with what is likely the flu. Tenacious, uncomfortable illness. Not as heavy as a few experiences with flus I had years ago. But it is like the energizer bunny, usually I kick things rather quickly but not this time. I am 56. I never get flu shots but if I had the opportunity with my current experiance I probably would consider it.

Likely not available in time for H1N1 in order to allow us to avoid inoculation, but promising broad-spectrum antivirals in development for treatment of a variety of viral infections, including influenza are a class of drug known as monoclonal antibodies, largely used as targeted therapies in certain malignancies.

Functional Genetics has demonstrated that FGI-101 can selectively identify or eliminate cells that have been infected with many virus types, including HIV-1 (including drug-resistant HIV), all forms of Influenza (both seasonal and pandemic), Respiratory Syncytial Virus (RSV), Parainfluenza virus (PIV), Herpes (HSV-1 and HSV-2) and Ebola virus.

Currently in Phase II clinical trials for Hepatitis C is Bavituximab, that works by targeting exposed phospholipids:

Phospholipids are normal molecular structures that are present in all cells of the human body...These phospholipids are also exposed on the outer surface of cells infected by a broad class of viruses known as enveloped viruses making them a specific target for the potential treatment of those diseases.

Bavituximab has also been shown to recognize a broad spectrum of enveloped viruses, a category that includes nearly half of the viruses that cause human disease. Data developed by Peregrine demonstrate that bavituximab binds to members of six different virus families. In addition to bovine viral diarrhea virus, a model for hepatitis C, these include influenza A and B, HIV 1 and 2, measles, respiratory syncytial virus and pichinde virus, a model for the deadly Lassa hemorrhagic fever.

Credit to NewScientist for an excellent article on these novel agents.

[Cyberbrain]

http://www.nytimes.c...1tue1.html?_r=1

[GoodFellas]

Up until now I've never bothered about the Swine Flu epidemic. Because of two reasons:

-The only ones that dies from it has a chronical disease (I don't).

-It's not really widespread here in Norway as in other parts of Europe like Britain and Spain.


However, recently there has been a couple deaths in Norway where the person was about the same age as me and the person didn't have a chronical disease.

I've already taken the seasonal flu vaccine and the only side effects I got from it was a couple of pimples. Is the swine flu vaccine safe to take?

[stephen_b]

The best thing you can do against swine flu might very well be optimizing vitamin D.

http://www.vitamindc...swine-flu.shtml
http://www.vitamindc...vitamin-d.shtml

StephenB

[GoodFellas]

Anymore thoughts about this one?

[Luna]

They started vaccinating people in israel.

for some reason I don't panic from the swine flu like everyone else around me.. the vaccine on the other hand does.

I am not sure why, it's not like it has anything to do with the conspiracy theories there been about the vaccines, I was anxious about it before them.

I had the same reaction to any flu vaccine, ever. And any other injection,.

[kismet]

Strange world isn't it. I look at the structure and I have an irrational fear of it. I've seen the safety studies, and you feed it to rats and mice forever and nothing happens. But it scares me.

Edited by kismet, 10 November 2009 - 07:10 PM.

[Johann]

Swine Flu 24 hour coverage. CNN> FOX> MSNBC>
Been like this for the last 9 months.

The true number of deaths each year for the flu is about 1000. It used to be said that the number was 37,000. But fancy accounting trick: They were actually counting pneumonia deaths in there as well.

1000 deaths a year from Flu. 24 hour coverage.

44,000 deaths a year from automobile accidents. Very little mention in the news.

30,000 people died from Vioxx. Very little mention in the news.

[kismet]

Well, that may be because it was flu-related pneumonia, i.e. the flu caused it? It's very similar: rarely does someone die from aging, nonetheless aging will kill everyone. Fancy accounting? You decide...

Edited by kismet, 10 November 2009 - 10:12 PM.

[Jay]

Here's a good write-up. Basically, the 36K/year flu death statistic is a calculated estimation of the number of deaths associated with the flu. My understanding is that the idea is to estimate the people whose deaths would have been meaningfully postponed if there were no flu. I would guess most people (including me) thought that it was the measure of people who died primarily from the flu. It turns out that it's not that... Since pediatric deaths (for which I have seen week-by-week numbers) from H1N1 are up by a factor of 5 over last years flu numbers, it seems that most H1N1 deaths (at least pediatric) are deaths caused primarily by H1N1. Thus, comparing the 600 something H1N1 dead so far with the 36K influenza deaths is comparing apples to oranges. For healthy young people, H1N1 is definitely more worrisome than regular flu (but still not very worrisome IMO)

Edited by Jay, 10 November 2009 - 10:43 PM.

[Johann]

I'll be alright without the flu jab.

[niner]

I'll be alright without the flu jab.

But you are a contrary indicator.

[niner]

They started vaccinating people in israel.

for some reason I don't panic from the swine flu like everyone else around me.. the vaccine on the other hand does.

I am not sure why, it's not like it has anything to do with the conspiracy theories there been about the vaccines, I was anxious about it before them.

I had the same reaction to any flu vaccine, ever. And any other injection,.

If shots make you nervous, maybe you should get FluMist, the inhaled nasal spray. Or do vaccines make you nervous? The modern flu vaccine has a very good safety record. I've been getting on every year for about the last 15 years. This year my doctor didn't have the vaccine because a couple giant chain drugstores have bought it all up. For the past week, I've had something that I caught from my kids. I think it's a flu of some sort. Don't know if it's H1N1 or not.

The H1N1 flu is significantly more lethal in children than the usual seasonal flu. If I was you, I'd get the vaccine. One way to look at it is even if you don't mind getting the flu, you put other people at risk when you get infected. You wouldn't want to be responsible for some kid getting the flu from you, right?

[Cyberbrain]

They're giving free swine flu vaccines at my university and I'll be getting one myself tomorrow (if they don't run out). The majority of vaccines in the US are going to the military, hospitals, and universities.

Due to the sort supply, and the danger of getting the swine flu (since it's more deadly then the seasonal flu) I would also highly recommend getting it.

So far I have not read anyone dieing or getting any serious reactions from the swine flu vaccine, and don't forget that the swine flu vaccine has single handily had the most money invested in it then any other vaccine in the past few decades.

Most people will survive the swine flu and it will last about a week if you get it, but then again healthy teenagers like us have also died from it.

Overall - it's more dangerous to get the swine flue then it is to get the swine flu vaccine.

I'll let you know how I am if I take the vaccine

[DukeNukem]

A LOT more people are dying from the "regular" flu(s) compared to the swine flu. But, stating those stats doesn't pump up the need for money-making swine fly vaccines.

Companies reap the swine flu windfall
Healthcare companies are reaping the benefits of a global swine flu pandemic, brightening what might otherwise have been a dismal third quarter and bringing new focus on the market for vaccines.
http://www.reuters.c...E59M3TZ20091023

Meanwhile...

The Canadian government, and more specifically the provinces of Quebec, British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Ontario and Nova Scotia, have suspended the 'normal' seasonal flu shots for anyone under 65 in response to a recent study there.

The lead researcher, Danuta Skowronski, of the British Columbia Centre for Disease Control, and Gaston De Serres, of Laval University, have confounded infectious-disease experts by suggesting that people vaccinated against seasonal flu are twice as likely to catch swine flu.

An international panel is currently scrutinising their data. Dr Ethan Rubinstein, head of adult infectious diseases at the University of Manitoba, who has read the study, said it appeared sound.
http://www.independe...sk-1924363.html

I heard a doctor on the radio a few days ago say that the swine fly vaccine we're giving out now is the same one given out when the swine flu hit in the early 70's, and he said that during that previous vaccination period, the vaccine caused more problems (side effects) than it appeared to prevent. Basically, the same conclusion the Canadian researchers have come to.

Edited by DukeNukem, 11 November 2009 - 02:16 PM.

[Johann]

Do Yearly Flu Shots Increase Mortality Risk from Swine Flu?

This reportedly came out of Lancet.

Edited by Johann, 11 November 2009 - 02:16 PM.

[kismet]

So why not just post the primary source?

[Jay]

A LOT more people are dying from the "regular" flu(s) compared to the swine flu. But, stating those stats doesn't pump up the need for money-making swine fly vaccines.

That was addressed above and it doesn't seem to be true, at least with respect to young people. Look here for data on pediatric cases of flu.

I heard a doctor on the radio a few days ago say that the swine fly vaccine we're giving out now is the same one given out when the swine flu hit in the early 70's, and he said that during that previous vaccination period, the vaccine caused more problems (side effects) than it appeared to prevent. Basically, the same conclusion the Canadian researchers have come to.

As far as I know, Canada suspended REGULAR flu shots not H1N1 flu shots, despite Mercola's misleading headlines (link is cached because it seems Mercola may have taken the story down).. Also, the vaccine is not at all the same as the 1976 version. It is in fact very similar to the regular seasonal flu shots and not expected to produce any more adverse effects.

Edited by Jay, 11 November 2009 - 03:56 PM.

[Johann]

So why not just post the primary source?

Maybe the Lancet is a subscription only journal?


But proceeding.. every day we hear more about supposed epidemics and threats of health

scares that never materialize but those perpetrating never admit to being wrong.  And the gullible never see past the lack of credibility.  

Anthrax scare, Mad Cow hysteria, SARS, Ebola, West Nile Virus, Triple E, Bird Flu, Swine Flu,

Flesh eating Bacteria --- all of these make round the clock headlines because of who puts them out.  Groups like the CDC.  The CDC was once almost eliminated by Reagan.  They became dedicated at that point to prove themselves needed.  And all the people that were told that they had HIV in the 1980s took AZT and the AZT was what really killed them.  

[eternaltraveler]

A LOT more people are dying from the "regular" flu(s) compared to the swine flu. But, stating those stats doesn't pump up the need for money-making swine fly vaccines.

that's a little hard to believe this year as about 95%+ of the circulating flu is H1N1. The regular flu vaccine probably is worthless this year for that reason.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/

[DukeNukem]

A LOT more people are dying from the "regular" flu(s) compared to the swine flu. But, stating those stats doesn't pump up the need for money-making swine fly vaccines.

that's a little hard to believe this year as about 95%+ of the circulating flu is H1N1. The regular flu vaccine probably is worthless this year for that reason.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/

Looks like I was wrong. I got my information from a report on the radio this morning. All of the figures quoted on the radio appear to be wildly differently from what's on the site you linked.

[Jay]

Could not be a more timely article in today's NYTs: Read it here.

[DukeNukem]

Could not be a more timely article in today's NYTs: Read it here.

From the article:

About 4,000 Americans — rather than about 1,200 — have died of swine flu since the disease emerged in April, according to new figures being calculated by epidemiologists for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention...The new estimate will be a more accurate comparison to the 36,000 deaths from seasonal flu each year, he said.

Unless I'm reading this article wrong, it seems to confirm the idea that the swine flu is significantly less dangerous than the "normal" flu(s), on a yearly average basis. In other words, if ~36,000 people die of the flu each year, and this year so far 4000 people have died from the swine flu, then the swine flu doesn't appear to be raising the yearly average by much. And, in fact, if the swine flu is "about 95%+ of the circulating flu" at this time, maybe overall deaths in 2009 will be reduced?

[Mind]

The H1N1 flu is significantly more lethal in children than the usual seasonal flu. If I was you, I'd get the vaccine. One way to look at it is even if you don't mind getting the flu, you put other people at risk when you get infected. You wouldn't want to be responsible for some kid getting the flu from you, right?

Seeing that the southern hemisphere went through the flu season with the swine flu and few vaccinations, and reported much less than 1% fatality rate (in Australia), I don't think it rises to the level where you have to roll out the "do it or you are killing kids" canard. Isn't "it works and it is safe" enough?

[eternaltraveler]

The H1N1 flu is significantly more lethal in children than the usual seasonal flu. If I was you, I'd get the vaccine. One way to look at it is even if you don't mind getting the flu, you put other people at risk when you get infected. You wouldn't want to be responsible for some kid getting the flu from you, right?

Seeing that the southern hemisphere went through the flu season with the swine flu and few vaccinations, and reported much less than 1% fatality rate (in Australia), I don't think it rises to the level where you have to roll out the "do it or you are killing kids" canard. Isn't "it works and it is safe" enough?

I'd get it because I don't want to be sick for a week and having the flu sucks.

H1N1 doesn't appear to be dramatically more or less lethal than the normal seasonal flu. It is however, much more contagious than the flu is usually.

I wouldn't advise people who don't want the vaccine that they *must* get it or they're killing kids. Especially since there doesn't seem to be a terribly lot to go around.

Edited by eternaltraveler, 11 November 2009 - 08:38 PM.

[pamojja]

4000 deaths a year from Swine Flu.

44,000 deaths a year from automobile accidents.

I wouldn't advise people who don't want the vaccine that they *must* get it or they're killing kids. Especially since there doesn't seem to be a terribly lot to go around.

Long ago I promised myself never to own a private car again, due to all perpetual killings, maimings, environmental harm, etc. Once I was even shocked to find that in decades of a terrible civil war, like the one Eritrea, not as many many got killed as in one year in one 'civilized' western country alone. We got so used to this everyday killings on our streets..

But I wouldn't ever say: If you don't want to kill kids you *must not* drive a car. My intention not to drive out of fear of killing someone - as well as your good intention not to kill - shouldn't ever serve for judging others as potential murderers.

Kind Regards..

Edited by pamojja, 11 November 2009 - 09:06 PM.