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Swine Flu Vaccine


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#31 DukeNukem

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 09:13 PM

The H1N1 flu is significantly more lethal in children than the usual seasonal flu. If I was you, I'd get the vaccine. One way to look at it is even if you don't mind getting the flu, you put other people at risk when you get infected. You wouldn't want to be responsible for some kid getting the flu from you, right?


Seeing that the southern hemisphere went through the flu season with the swine flu and few vaccinations, and reported much less than 1% fatality rate (in Australia), I don't think it rises to the level where you have to roll out the "do it or you are killing kids" canard. Isn't "it works and it is safe" enough?


I'd get it because I don't want to be sick for a week and having the flu sucks.

H1N1 doesn't appear to be dramatically more or less lethal than the normal seasonal flu. It is however, much more contagious than the flu is usually.

I wouldn't advise people who don't want the vaccine that they *must* get it or they're killing kids. Especially since there doesn't seem to be a terribly lot to go around.

Quite simply, I will probably never get a flu shot (and haven't in 20 years). I just do not trust the medical system when so much profit is at stake. Statins are a prime example of a useless drug, but a very nice $20 billion a year industry. I see most vaccines as in the same boat (including most that young children get--only 5 when I was young, 20+ now! Cha-ching!!!). Money trumps what's best for population, in most situations. With statins, I simply do not trust that I will not get side effects I regret, such as permanent neural damage.

#32 Johann

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 09:16 PM

Duke,
You said 20 billion dollars a year -- its actually 31 billion dollars a year.

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#33 kismet

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 09:33 PM

The H1N1 flu is significantly more lethal in children than the usual seasonal flu. If I was you, I'd get the vaccine. One way to look at it is even if you don't mind getting the flu, you put other people at risk when you get infected. You wouldn't want to be responsible for some kid getting the flu from you, right?


Seeing that the southern hemisphere went through the flu season with the swine flu and few vaccinations, and reported much less than 1% fatality rate (in Australia), I don't think it rises to the level where you have to roll out the "do it or you are killing kids" canard. Isn't "it works and it is safe" enough?

Actually not just some kid, but elderly people are also at risk from you. Herd immunity saves lives, this is a fact not a canard. How we judge such indirect actions morally is completely unrelated to the evidence at hand.

#34 Johann

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 10:13 PM

The H1N1 flu is significantly more lethal in children than the usual seasonal flu. If I was you, I'd get the vaccine. One way to look at it is even if you don't mind getting the flu, you put other people at risk when you get infected. You wouldn't want to be responsible for some kid getting the flu from you, right?


Seeing that the southern hemisphere went through the flu season with the swine flu and few vaccinations, and reported much less than 1% fatality rate (in Australia), I don't think it rises to the level where you have to roll out the "do it or you are killing kids" canard. Isn't "it works and it is safe" enough?

Actually not just some kid, but elderly people are also at risk from you. Herd immunity saves lives, this is a fact not a canard. How we judge such indirect actions morally is completely unrelated to the evidence at hand.



What Kismet means is that some of us are thought criminals. Get used to hearing that term because we'll all be hearing it more and more on down the line.
Those that refuse vaccinations will be regarded as criminals.

The Crusades and the Salem Witch trials will be nothing compared to the hysterical tyranny about to come from those that place religious faith in modern medicine.

#35 Mortuorum

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 10:28 PM

http://vactruth.com/...about-vaccines/

http://www.whale.to/a/blaylock.html

#36 Mind

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 10:47 PM

I am not against or afraid of the H1N1 flu vaccine, but I am not beating down the clinic door to get it. When there is some available and after people more at risk get the vaccine, then I will have my turn.

Kismet, actually, it is not just kids and the elderly that are at risk from you, it is theoretically everyone, at risk everyday everywhere in the world. We live in a sea of micro-organisms. Maybe canard is the wrong word - ploy - overstatement - perversion of risk assessment. I don't think the risk from swine flu is large enough to equate vaccine refusal with "killing kids". Everyone engages in risky activities everyday that endangers other people (including driving). I was at the gym an hour ago and some dude honked a farmer blow in the shower - probably a mass murderer, considering all the germs he is spreading....lol.

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#37 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 10:55 PM

Cleary the best way for Kismet to minimize damage to the rest of the world is to kill himself. That way he'll never spread his pathogens, never kill someone in a car accident, and never bump into someone and accidently push them in front of a speeding bullet train, then having them accidently falling on the third rail. The risks are too great.

I've never been vaccinated for the flu, cause y immune system rocks when it comes to pathogens, and I seem to just about never get sick.

#38 DukeNukem

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 11:00 PM

The H1N1 flu is significantly more lethal in children than the usual seasonal flu. If I was you, I'd get the vaccine. One way to look at it is even if you don't mind getting the flu, you put other people at risk when you get infected. You wouldn't want to be responsible for some kid getting the flu from you, right?


Seeing that the southern hemisphere went through the flu season with the swine flu and few vaccinations, and reported much less than 1% fatality rate (in Australia), I don't think it rises to the level where you have to roll out the "do it or you are killing kids" canard. Isn't "it works and it is safe" enough?

Actually not just some kid, but elderly people are also at risk from you. Herd immunity saves lives, this is a fact not a canard. How we judge such indirect actions morally is completely unrelated to the evidence at hand.

I personally will not risk my health for the health of others.

#39 pamojja

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 11:01 PM

After so much serious discussions, I hope a break with a little bid of politically incorrect entertainment is allowed too. (Otherwise just delete this post)



#40 niner

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 11:09 PM

The H1N1 flu is significantly more lethal in children than the usual seasonal flu. If I was you, I'd get the vaccine. One way to look at it is even if you don't mind getting the flu, you put other people at risk when you get infected. You wouldn't want to be responsible for some kid getting the flu from you, right?

Seeing that the southern hemisphere went through the flu season with the swine flu and few vaccinations, and reported much less than 1% fatality rate (in Australia), I don't think it rises to the level where you have to roll out the "do it or you are killing kids" canard. Isn't "it works and it is safe" enough?

Sorry. I didn't know it was a canard. The only thing I was trying to get across is that when you make the decision not to get vaccinated, it doesn't affect just you, it affects everyone you infect if you get sick. I don't know how Australia counts deaths from flu. In America we count pneumonias that arise secondary to the flu as having been caused by the flu. This is entirely reasonable, since if you didn't have the flu, you wouldn't have gotten the secondary infection. As it happens, I have the Swine Flu right now, as I type. I've had it for about a week. It hasn't been that bad, although a friend of my wife's had to take her kid to the ER due to an uncontrollable fever. Apparently this flu is reasonably mild for most people, but hits some people really hard. If pediatric deaths are running at 5 times the usual rate, that seems noteworthy.

#41 niner

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 12:01 AM

Actually not just some kid, but elderly people are also at risk from you. Herd immunity saves lives, this is a fact not a canard. How we judge such indirect actions morally is completely unrelated to the evidence at hand.

I personally will not risk my health for the health of others.

Even if the risk to your health is infinitesimal? You're lucky the guys at your local fire department don't feel that way.

#42 Cyberbrain

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 12:44 AM

Day 35:
Five weeks have gone by. The vaccine must have taken full affect by now in my immune system. My whole family is sick except me so that's probably an indication that I'm either luck or that the vaccine is working.

Day 28:
Finals are stressing me out, but beyond that I'm physically healthy.

Day 21:
Three weeks and still feeling healthy.

Day 14:
Two weeks have gone by by now and still feel healthy. No ailments or side effects from the vaccine.

Day 7:
Alright it's been one week after I got my vaccination. So far so good. No symptoms as far as I know, no rash, soreness or pain in my arm and I don't have any ailments of the flu or cold. Some people usually get sick immediately after vaccination for a few days, but I feel perfectly healthy. This past week I also continued to take a multivitamin and an omega 3 supplement.

Day 0:
Just got the inactivated H1N1 vaccine a few hours ago. It was a single dosage of 0.5ml and was manufactured by Sanofi Pasteur. All university students in the US can get it, so I got mine for free. So far I feel good with no side affects; no headache, no red rash or swelling on my arm, and I don't feel weak or fatigue - I was even able to drive fine. Of course it's only the first day so I'll update about once a week and use my self as a guinea pig to see if there are any effects to this vaccine, though I'm confident there won't be any.

____________________________________________________

Overall I would like to point out several facts for those who are considering taking this vaccine and for those who are skeptical of it.

First off, there is no 100% guarantee that this vaccine (as with most vaccines) will work, though if you do get it you radically reduce your chances of getting the swine flu. You should not get the 2009 H1N1 flu vaccine if you have a severe allergy to eggs, have Guillain Barré Syndrome, or are currently sick with a fever. If you want to you can also get the seasonal flu shot along with the swine flu shot. Note that the seasonal flu shot will not protect you from the swine flu because these are two different viruses.

Those in danger the most of the swine flu are children and teenagers. Anyone from 6 months through 24 years of age is highly recommended to get the swine flu shot. I would also advice to get the single dose swine flu vaccine compared to the multi-dose vaccine or the nasal spray.

This vaccine is made just like seasonal flu vaccine except using a different inactive virus. If you take this shot, any side effects you may get (though unlikely) will be similar to the side effects of the regular flu shot which are:

• soreness, redness, tenderness, or swelling where the shot was given
• fainting (mainly adolescents)
• headache, muscle aches
• fever
• nausea

If these problems occur, they usually begin soon after the shot and last 24 - 48 hours.

I also believe that the scares of both this vaccine and the swine flu it self are greatly exaggerated. If you wish to you don't have to get this shot. If you do get the swine flu it will last only about a week, you will have similar symptoms to that of the regular flu and once you get better you will have built a personal immunity to the swine flu. The chances of you dieing from the swine flu are very small, but unlike the regular flu this one is a bit more aggressive on children and teenagers. Also all these scares you keep hearing about the swine flu vaccine are false. This site does a good job of debunking those claims:

http://www.newsweek....d/218513/page/1

I believe the risk of getting the swine flu far exceed the risk of getting the swine flu shot. Overall you should CONTACT YOUR DOCTOR if you feel like you may have any symptoms or if you want to get the seasonal or swine flu vaccine.

You can get more info here:

http://www.cdc.gov/H1N1FLU/

Edited by Cyberbrain, 16 December 2009 - 09:46 PM.


#43 tunt01

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 01:19 AM

www.google.com/flushot

#44 Luna

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 08:04 AM

After reading what niner said, I found that for some reason the risk of saving a child from a burning building sounds more reasonable than the risk of getting a vaccine..

I think this is quite disgusting to blame people for killing kids and other people just because you are afraid of the damage a vaccine can do.
I have a friend whose half body is paralyzed due to a regular vaccine, I had always been repelled by vaccines even before I knew about him, but this just makes me more anxious.

Isn't it more like, we are putting ourselves in risk while others choose to take the vaccine and feel (maybe even be) safe from the flu?

Why won't those kids and eldery and rest of the world go get vaccinated instead of blaming us for not being vaccinated and by that infecting them, who did not get the vaccine either?

Just get vaccinated yourself and don't blame others for infecting you because THEY did not get vaccinated - if you did not get vaccinated yourself. I think it makes a bit sense.

Edited by Luna, 12 November 2009 - 08:10 AM.


#45 drmz

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 02:06 PM

Question --> Why one needs to be vaccinated every year even when there are no new virus strains around.(or assumed that) Why is it that the antigen isn't permanently stored? Thought that was the way memory t-cells worked.....

Edited by drmz, 12 November 2009 - 02:06 PM.


#46 eternaltraveler

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 03:26 PM

Unfortunately the flu vaccine, though not entirely useless, is highly ineffective in the elderly. It is much more effective for those around older individuals to be vaccinated rather than the older people themselves.

After reading what niner said, I found that for some reason the risk of saving a child from a burning building sounds more reasonable than the risk of getting a vaccine..

I think this is quite disgusting to blame people for killing kids and other people just because you are afraid of the damage a vaccine can do.
I have a friend whose half body is paralyzed due to a regular vaccine, I had always been repelled by vaccines even before I knew about him, but this just makes me more anxious.

Isn't it more like, we are putting ourselves in risk while others choose to take the vaccine and feel (maybe even be) safe from the flu?

Why won't those kids and eldery and rest of the world go get vaccinated instead of blaming us for not being vaccinated and by that infecting them, who did not get the vaccine either?

Just get vaccinated yourself and don't blame others for infecting you because THEY did not get vaccinated - if you did not get vaccinated yourself. I think it makes a bit sense.



#47 rwac

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 04:07 PM

Question --> Why one needs to be vaccinated every year even when there are no new virus strains around.(or assumed that) Why is it that the antigen isn't permanently stored? Thought that was the way memory t-cells worked.....


1. The flu strains are different every year. The vaccination generally covers 3 strains.
2. The memory is only retained for a limited time (few years, I believe), essentially the lifespan of those t-cells.

Edited by rwac, 12 November 2009 - 04:09 PM.


#48 Cyberbrain

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 04:22 PM

After reading what niner said, I found that for some reason the risk of saving a child from a burning building sounds more reasonable than the risk of getting a vaccine..

I think this is quite disgusting to blame people for killing kids and other people just because you are afraid of the damage a vaccine can do.
I have a friend whose half body is paralyzed due to a regular vaccine, I had always been repelled by vaccines even before I knew about him, but this just makes me more anxious.

Isn't it more like, we are putting ourselves in risk while others choose to take the vaccine and feel (maybe even be) safe from the flu?

Why won't those kids and eldery and rest of the world go get vaccinated instead of blaming us for not being vaccinated and by that infecting them, who did not get the vaccine either?

Just get vaccinated yourself and don't blame others for infecting you because THEY did not get vaccinated - if you did not get vaccinated yourself. I think it makes a bit sense.

Hey Luna! I just got the swine flu vaccine yesterday and I feel perfectly fine. I did a lot of research on it before I took it and it appears to be perfectly safe and reliable.

#49 Cyberbrain

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 05:04 PM



#50 VespeneGas

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 02:28 AM

After reading what niner said, I found that for some reason the risk of saving a child from a burning building sounds more reasonable than the risk of getting a vaccine..

I think this is quite disgusting to blame people for killing kids and other people just because you are afraid of the damage a vaccine can do.
I have a friend whose half body is paralyzed due to a regular vaccine, I had always been repelled by vaccines even before I knew about him, but this just makes me more anxious.

Isn't it more like, we are putting ourselves in risk while others choose to take the vaccine and feel (maybe even be) safe from the flu?

Why won't those kids and eldery and rest of the world go get vaccinated instead of blaming us for not being vaccinated and by that infecting them, who did not get the vaccine either?

Just get vaccinated yourself and don't blame others for infecting you because THEY did not get vaccinated - if you did not get vaccinated yourself. I think it makes a bit sense.


Sigh, this vaccination business really incites hysteria.

Niner never said that if you don't get a flu vaccine, you're killing kids. I doubt anyone would have trouble with the inverted proposition, namely that if you got a vaccination which prevented you from getting infected and infecting others, you would effectively have saved lives. This point seems so simple and obvious that it is beyond dispute. Hell, smallpox used to kill tens of millions of people per year, and was eradicated through vaccination.

If I were a healthcare worker, daycare worker, caretaker for old people, etc. then I would definitely get the vaccine out of consideration. I happen to spend all my time around 20-somethings, for whom I'm less concerned. This isn't a moral judgment of those who don't get vaccinated, just food for thought.

As someone who has been poisoned by a pharmaceutical drug (ciprofloxacin) I understand people's reluctance to introduce them to their bodies. However, the risk of a serious complication (partial paralysis) is so low that getting vaccinated probably helps more than it hurts. YMMV.

#51 mustardseed41

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 04:14 AM

I D3 vaccine everyday. 5000iu

#52 niner

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 04:26 AM

I D3 vaccine everyday. 5000iu

D3 didn't prevent me from getting the flu. I've been taking 3000 IU for months, not to mention another 1000 IU in a less absorbable form. I was heavily exposed to what is in all likelihood Swine flu (that's essentially all that's going around in these parts) by my two kids who both had it. I thought D3 was supposed to be protective against flu; maybe it is for certain strains but not others. I can say that I haven't had a bacterial infection (that I know of) in the several years since I got my D levels up to where they should be.

#53 niner

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 04:45 AM

After reading what niner said, I found that for some reason the risk of saving a child from a burning building sounds more reasonable than the risk of getting a vaccine..

This is a really poor risk assessment.

I think this is quite disgusting to blame people for killing kids and other people just because you are afraid of the damage a vaccine can do.

Take it easy Luna, no one blamed you for "killing kids".

I have a friend whose half body is paralyzed due to a regular vaccine, I had always been repelled by vaccines even before I knew about him, but this just makes me more anxious.

Was that a modern flu vaccine? I'll bet not.

Isn't it more like, we are putting ourselves in risk while others choose to take the vaccine and feel (maybe even be) safe from the flu?

It's true that you are putting yourself at risk, but you are also putting others at risk if you become infectious.

Why won't those kids and eldery and rest of the world go get vaccinated instead of blaming us for not being vaccinated and by that infecting them, who did not get the vaccine either?

That's a good point. Plus, if everyone else got vaccinated, then you would be protected by herd immunity.

Just get vaccinated yourself and don't blame others for infecting you because THEY did not get vaccinated - if you did not get vaccinated yourself. I think it makes a bit sense.

I wanted to get vaccinated for H1N1, but couldn't find it in time. I did manage to get a seasonal flu vaccination. Have you heard me blaming anyone for infecting me? I don't think so. How's this: Damn my kids! Those Bastards!

#54 Luna

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 06:33 AM

I didn't mean directly you (niner) by saying yourself :D

Your kids are sure meanies :|?

Edited by Luna, 13 November 2009 - 06:34 AM.


#55 Johann

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 02:15 PM

http://fluscam.com/FLU_To_Dos.html

#56 niner

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 02:29 PM

http://fluscam.com/FLU_To_Dos.html

In addition to a very cute picture, this site contains the truth about where flu comes from. And all this time I'd been thinking that it was from the influence of the moon! Thank god for science like this. BTW they recommend colloidal silver.

Common-Sense Natural FLU FACTS:
1)A flu is a normal natural “healing crisis” most commonly caused by:

a. chronic acidification of body chemistry due to these lifestyle risks:
i. caffeine
ii. nicotine
iii. stress
iv. sugar
v. alcohol
vi. pharmaceuticals ( including medications for the flu)
vii.consuming lots of red meats

b. intoxication by foreign proteins, and mucous forming metabolites from dairy products.

NOW YOU KNOW why “flu season” occurs beginning with Halloween running through Christmas and New Years. It’s not simply the “change in weather.” It is the acid assault against natural immunity from sugar and dairy poisoning--all that candy, cake, cookies and ice cream that government officials and medical deities don’t warn you about.

In essence, flu symptoms reflect a natural purging of things that should not be in your body. It is nature’s way to cleanse you so that health is restored.



#57 Cyberbrain

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 03:47 PM

You know, until now I had trouble visualizing where the swine flu came from :|?

Posted Image

#58 VespeneGas

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 05:23 PM

Common-Sense Natural FLU FACTS:
1)A flu is a normal natural "healing crisis" most commonly caused by:

a. chronic acidification of body chemistry due to these lifestyle risks:
i. caffeine
ii. nicotine
iii. stress
iv. sugar
v. alcohol
vi. pharmaceuticals ( including medications for the flu)
vii.consuming lots of red meats

b. intoxication by foreign proteins, and mucous forming metabolites from dairy products.

NOW YOU KNOW why "flu season" occurs beginning with Halloween running through Christmas and New Years. It's not simply the "change in weather." It is the acid assault against natural immunity from sugar and dairy poisoning--all that candy, cake, cookies and ice cream that government officials and medical deities don't warn you about.

In essence, flu symptoms reflect a natural purging of things that should not be in your body. It is nature's way to cleanse you so that health is restored.


LOL. Ironically posted by one of our favorite local nicotine advocates, as well as diets rich in saturated fat, which also hits red meat and 'foreign proteins', or if from milk hits the mucous forming metabolites subpoint.

I can't tell whether to be charmed by the innocence of or pissed off by the ignorance of all these websites talking about the "acidification of body chemistry", which, if it actually occurred, would rapidly culminate in death. :|?

#59 Johann

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 06:07 PM

Common-Sense Natural FLU FACTS:
1)A flu is a normal natural "healing crisis" most commonly caused by:

a. chronic acidification of body chemistry due to these lifestyle risks:
i. caffeine
ii. nicotine
iii. stress
iv. sugar
v. alcohol
vi. pharmaceuticals ( including medications for the flu)
vii.consuming lots of red meats

b. intoxication by foreign proteins, and mucous forming metabolites from dairy products.

NOW YOU KNOW why "flu season" occurs beginning with Halloween running through Christmas and New Years. It's not simply the "change in weather." It is the acid assault against natural immunity from sugar and dairy poisoning--all that candy, cake, cookies and ice cream that government officials and medical deities don't warn you about.

In essence, flu symptoms reflect a natural purging of things that should not be in your body. It is nature's way to cleanse you so that health is restored.


LOL. Ironically posted by one of our favorite local nicotine advocates, as well as diets rich in saturated fat, which also hits red meat and 'foreign proteins', or if from milk hits the mucous forming metabolites subpoint.

I can't tell whether to be charmed by the innocence of or pissed off by the ignorance of all these websites talking about the "acidification of body chemistry", which, if it actually occurred, would rapidly culminate in death. :|?


Don't know whether to be charmed or pissed off? How about just quietly realize that you are not as important as you want to believe? Those of your mindset are quickly becoming irrelevant, inconsequential, and insignificant.

See? Anyone can play the insult game.. doesn't make their scientific views correct now does it?!
:-D

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#60 kismet

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 06:24 PM

Why won't those kids and eldery and rest of the world go get vaccinated instead of blaming us for not being vaccinated and by that infecting them, who did not get the vaccine either?

That's a good point. Plus, if everyone else got vaccinated, then you would be protected by herd immunity.

Actually it's a bad point, but you can't blame laymen (or -women) for not knowing it. Some groups cannot get the vaccine and their safety depends on (partial) herd immunity (most notably the elderly, which may simply fail to respond to vaccines; but also newborns AFAIK).

Johann, which scientific views, eh?




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