42 replies to this topic

[madbrad]

Hi,
I've been lurking the board for quite a while and finally have a personal experience to add. I'm an experienced weight-lifter and I've only ever had inflammation in my shoulders on the odd occasion from overtraining. Recently, after 4 months on resveratrol at 300mg/ed I developed wicked athritis in both shoulders. On stopping R it went away again. The interesting part is my strength on R was going up constantly. I don't mean steroid-like gains. This was slow but noticeable gains. The kind that natural weight-lifters and bodybuilders kill for. If I wasn't a gym-junkie I wouldn't have noticed it at all. The bad part is I now have to aim for a dose that doesn't cause the athritis.
I think perhaps there is estrogen suppression going on. I can't think of any other reason for getting both muscle gain and an increase in inflammation from the same supplement. It's really interesting stuff though.

[2tender]

I cant say that Resveratrol use can be attributed to your joint pain or muscle growth. I can say that you are more than likely experiencing a placebo effect. Weight lifting alters hormones and can cause joint pain, any exercise or sport training will. Every competitive athlete experiences muscle growth and joint pain. Those things happen when you train on a regular basis. Resveratrol is not the only supplement you take, is it?

[madbrad]

I cant say that Resveratrol use can be attributed to your joint pain or muscle growth. I can say that you are more than likely experiencing a placebo effect. Weight lifting alters hormones and can cause joint pain, any exercise or sport training will. Every competitive athlete experiences muscle growth and joint pain. Those things happen when you train on a regular basis. Resveratrol is not the only supplement you take, is it?

Thanks for replying.
The muscle gains aren't placebo - I wasn't expecting them at all. I've never heard of Res. being used to gain muscle. My training buddies noticed the gains before I did, both in physical definition and strength. But, like I said, it is subtle but over months became noticeable.
In 26 years of weight-training (naturally) I've only ever had noticeable positive gains from a few things like creatine, which hits the wall for me really quickly. Whatever is happening is a very unique experience, for gains and inflammation.
Res is the only supplement I've started and stopped. It could be combining with other things but Res seems to be the key. I could be way off the mark here, so I'd love more feedback.

[2tender]

Interesting, to say the least. In any event, you would know what type and kind of progress is made as far as muscle tonus is concerned. I think that sometimes a combination of things helps spur more muscle tone and better workouts. Resveratrol has been mentioned to be a physiologic catalyst, while I dont think it is the only reason, I think that it may be one of several factors, including your diet and training that contributed to your experienced anabolism. Sometimes there is an overabundance of hormones in the meat and milk we consume (Finaplex) and that may be a factor also. I think that if you take the Resveratrol again after a break, you may not experience joint pain as a direct result of its ingestion. So, you say that you lift weights, but dont take any other supplements, just Resveratrol?

[niner]

I'm an experienced weight-lifter and I've only ever had inflammation in my shoulders on the odd occasion from overtraining. Recently, after 4 months on resveratrol at 300mg/ed I developed wicked athritis in both shoulders. On stopping R it went away again. The interesting part is my strength on R was going up constantly. I don't mean steroid-like gains. This was slow but noticeable gains. The kind that natural weight-lifters and bodybuilders kill for. If I wasn't a gym-junkie I wouldn't have noticed it at all. The bad part is I now have to aim for a dose that doesn't cause the athritis.
I think perhaps there is estrogen suppression going on. I can't think of any other reason for getting both muscle gain and an increase in inflammation from the same supplement. It's really interesting stuff though.

This sounds exactly like the joint pains that others have reported with resveratrol. We've had several threads about it in the resveratrol forum over the past year or so. This is one of the larger ones. IIRC, aromatase inhibition by resveratrol was hypothesized to be causative of the joint and tendon problems. That would also be consistent with the gains you saw as well.

It might be possible to keep the good effects and lose the bad effects with a lower dose.

[madbrad]

2tender - I take a number of supplements. The only one that could be pushing the testosterone up is ZMA - love the stuff. I guess training 5 nights a week is puting myself into the inflammation zone. But, my body was coping with it before so whatever is happening means I'm not combating the effects of training anymore.

Niner - Thanks for that link. I'll try 2 days off R every week and see what happens. Also got a hold of some micro dhea that I'll add to olive oil and rub it on the shoulders post-training??

This is an exciting supplement.

[hamishm00]

I have been gyming for about 2 months now, and I am getting serious muscle gain.

Is it the resveratrol? I suspect it is.

[everythingeverything]

I just thought I'd add to this discussion. I've been taking resveratrol for about 6 months. Usually a few weeks in a get knee pain. It gradually worsens and actually eventually egst quite painful. Whenever I stop, it goes away within the course of a week or two. Initially I didn't make the connection, but I tried it 3 or 4 times and each time the same thing happens. I would certainly worry about long term damage if I continued. As such I need to decide whether to try a low dose and see what happens, or simply stop taking it. As I'm quite young, it's probably better for me to skip this until later in life, when perhaps more will be known about these issues.

[maxwatt]

Vitamin D3 was theorized to counteract the joint pain that some notice with resveratrol, as has CoQ10. Aromatase inhibitors, when used to treat breast cancer, cause joint pain that is relieved by sun-exposure or increased intake of vitamin D. Resveratrol is an aromatase inhibitor. There are also known polymorphism in the estrogen receptor, which might account for the variability whith which this symptom is reported.

I managed to experience joint pain when I pushed my dose up to 3 grams. Stopping for a few days and starting at half the dose controlled the effect. I began taking 400 mg of CoQ0 and 2000 units of D3 and the problem has not recurred. I did have my blood levels checked, and found I was still deficient at 2000 units of D2, even mid-summer. It takes 6000 units to raise my D3 to a healthy range, but at this dose I can't reproduce joint pain with resveratrol. I no longer take CoQ10, but I did find it helpful. With a larger dose of D3 I don't find I need it.

I suggest having your blood levels tested for vitamin D. Anything under 30 is bad news, and between 40 and 60 should be a target.

In the past, D3 has been suggested here to alleviate joint pain with resveratrol, but the results were inconsistent. I believe it is because of the variability of the blood level, and some people needed even more D than they were taking to push it into a healthy range, Don't assume because you get outdoors in the sun, or already supplement with D3 that you are OK. You need to actually measure it. The test is cheap. Quest labs charges $25 for the test, or your doctor can include it with your next physical.

[mighty]

Interesting thread. I started taking resveratrol and I noticed that my strength and muscle were going up very drastically. Keep in mind I have been lifting for ten years and used every supplement under the sun in my life. Once I started seeing these abnormal muscle and strength gains, it lead me to research the topic which lead me here. I never even thought of res being used for body building and I never thought it would help with gains. But I was trying to figure out where I was getting these gains from and the only difference in my life was resveratrol. It could be from increasing your testosterone levels or maybe other mechanisms that have yet top be discovered but im gonna keep taking it and see how far I get with it. I havent had any joint pain, but I take vitamin d as part of my daily regimine so that may be why. But it's nice to see that someone else is experienceing the same thing that I experienced.

[elphaba]

Hi,
I've been lurking the board for quite a while and finally have a personal experience to add. I'm an experienced weight-lifter and I've only ever had inflammation in my shoulders on the odd occasion from overtraining. Recently, after 4 months on resveratrol at 300mg/ed I developed wicked athritis in both shoulders. On stopping R it went away again. The interesting part is my strength on R was going up constantly. I don't mean steroid-like gains. This was slow but noticeable gains. The kind that natural weight-lifters and bodybuilders kill for. If I wasn't a gym-junkie I wouldn't have noticed it at all. The bad part is I now have to aim for a dose that doesn't cause the athritis.
I think perhaps there is estrogen suppression going on. I can't think of any other reason for getting both muscle gain and an increase in inflammation from the same supplement. It's really interesting stuff though.

I'm one of those who have complained about joint pain here. I didn't quit resveratrol. I did cut back but still a problem. But the good news is that I no longer have the joint pain but I'm not sure exactly why. I know that I changed my Resveratrol to the 99% micronized version from Tony (had been taking the 99% regular stuff before that he was giving a discount on) and I also added additional Vitamin C to my daily vitamin regimen. I am very sorry to say I'm not sure exactly when this problem went away but those are the two main possible fixes for my problem.

I have no connection with Longenivex (i.e. Tony's company) other than as a customer so I am making a standard disclaimer regarding the Longenivex and having no financial interests.

Regarding the Vitamin C, I was already taking about 6 grams per day divided in two doses, one in the morning and one before bed. I added an extra 3 grams in the afternoon hoping to give me an energy boost as well as maybe curb my appetite then which is when I have the most problems with cheating on my diet.

The result of the elimination of joint pain was quite a surprise. I don't mean to say I have no chronic pain. I am 63 and still have pains here and there but the pain in my neck and side was getting to be pretty bad but I didn't want to give up the resveratrol. For me, as I've stated here before, the results I like best about resveratrol is that it seems to have eliminated a low chronic grade depression that I have had. This stuff doesn't act overnight as some have already mentioned. I like the fact that it is slow acting - that tells me it is much healthier for ones system than the fast acting drugs that doctors so readily prescribe.

Apologies that my observations aren't more precise about exactly what the fix is for me but wanted to share. FYI - I already take quite a bit of glucosamine and Vitamin D for years and other joint supplements such as Celadrin and Iflex but they didn't seem to fix the problem. Plan to discontinue the Iflex and Celadrin when I run out next, maybe in a month or so and I will post if the neck and side pain return.

Edited by maxwatt, 18 November 2009 - 02:46 AM.

[maxwatt]

elphaba-

I don't see why you are waiting to run out before discontinuing drugs you have already decided to drop. If you are going to drop them why not drop them now? And if it turns out you are missing a benefit, you can quickly go back to them.

Glad your pains have decreased. Did you change the amount or kind of anything else, such as the D3 you are taking?

Edited by maxwatt, 18 November 2009 - 02:50 AM.

[everythingeverything]

Vitamin D3 was theorized to counteract the joint pain that some notice with resveratrol, as has CoQ10. Aromatase inhibitors, when used to treat breast cancer, cause joint pain that is relieved by sun-exposure or increased intake of vitamin D. Resveratrol is an aromatase inhibitor. ...

In the past, D3 has been suggested here to alleviate joint pain with resveratrol, but the results were inconsistent. I believe it is because of the variability of the blood level, and some people needed even more D than they were taking to push it into a healthy range...

Hi Maxwatt. I did take D3 and CoQ10 during this period, though not because I knew about this particular connection. My current D3 supplement is more potent though, so perhaps in a month or two I'll be worth me performing a test, just to see if in my case it does counter the knee pain. There certainly is at least a possibilitity that my D3 is low. I'm not really willing to run many more tests on myself though , because I fear that the pain will remain, which would rpetty much be a disaster. I might just sit this out and see how it pans out for others. It could perhaps be that we are taking too much? Maybe at a low dose nobody would expereince these issues.

Edited by Michael, 25 November 2009 - 11:02 PM.
Trim quote

[kurt9]

I have been on 250mg per day for the past year and have noticed increased muscle mass and a tighter waist line. Fortunately, I have not noticed any kind of muscle or joint pain at all. Also, I am chelating with ALA, which may also be contributing to my increased muscle mass as well. The amount I eat at each meal has declined slightly as compared to last year and I do not feel hungry between meals. All n' all, I think it reasonable to say that my regimen is working.

I take CoQ10 (100mg per day), LEF's super carnosine (1000mg per day), and the LEF standard mix. Perhaps these things are why I do not feel any joint or muscle pain.

[madbrad]

..... But I was trying to figure out where I was getting these gains from and the only difference in my life was resveratrol.

Heh,heh. Me too. I'd upgrade to a new set of dumbells and just scratch my head. I've never made constant strength gains like this, ever. I've been over my diet and supplements with a microscope trying to figure out the cause and I kept skipping over the Resveratrol. It has to be it though.

[maxwatt]

..... But I was trying to figure out where I was getting these gains from and the only difference in my life was resveratrol.

Heh,heh. Me too. I'd upgrade to a new set of dumbells and just scratch my head. I've never made constant strength gains like this, ever. I've been over my diet and supplements with a microscope trying to figure out the cause and I kept skipping over the Resveratrol. It has to be it though.

Possibly because more mitochondria = more strength ? We know that in mice, resveratrol increases the size and density of mitochondria in muscle, and that should correlate with greater and faster contractile force.

[geo12the]

I did have my blood levels checked, and found I was still deficient at 2000 units of D2, even mid-summer. It takes 6000 units to raise my D3 to a healthy range, but at this dose I can't reproduce joint pain with resveratrol. I no longer take CoQ10, but I did find it helpful. With a larger dose of D3 I don't find I need it.

Maxwatt,

Are you concerned about toxicity with such a high dose of vitaminD?

[maxwatt]

I did have my blood levels checked, and found I was still deficient at 2000 units of D2, even mid-summer. It takes 6000 units to raise my D3 to a healthy range, but at this dose I can't reproduce joint pain with resveratrol. I no longer take CoQ10, but I did find it helpful. With a larger dose of D3 I don't find I need it.

Maxwatt,

Are you concerned about toxicity with such a high dose of vitaminD?

Not at all. D3 is not toxic even in large doses, and as long as blood levels do not exceed about 60 there should be no health concerns.

Edited by maxwatt, 19 November 2009 - 03:33 PM.
speling

[zorba990]

I did have my blood levels checked, and found I was still deficient at 2000 units of D2, even mid-summer. It takes 6000 units to raise my D3 to a healthy range, but at this dose I can't reproduce joint pain with resveratrol. I no longer take CoQ10, but I did find it helpful. With a larger dose of D3 I don't find I need it.

Maxwatt,

Are you concerned about toxicity with such a high dose of vitaminD?

Not at all. D3 is not toxic even in large doses, andas long as blood levels do not exceed about 60 there should be o health concerns.

I wonder if high dose TRes is why 2400IU D3 a day plus sun was not enough to put me above 30?
I'm currently doubling it until my next test sometime in January I suppose.

[elphaba]

elphaba-

I don't see why you are waiting to run out before discontinuing drugs you have already decided to drop. If you are going to drop them why not drop them now? And if it turns out you are missing a benefit, you can quickly go back to them.

Glad your pains have decreased. Did you change the amount or kind of anything else, such as the D3 you are taking?

Joint pain problems are very complex to diagnose/monitor/understand IMO. I also have tennis elbow which seems to respond fairly well to MSM plus some type of pain (possibly nerve pain) in my thumb of left hand (not left handed). Plus arthritis in my left knee. I seem to be doing fairly well and and am not looking forward to "rocking the boat" if Celadrin and/or Iflex are helping out wherever they are helping out. Guess I'm a wimp. But I agree stopping to evaluate would be smart... will eventually. Didn't change D3 - only added Vitamin C plus change to Micronized Resveratrol.

[health_nutty]

Strength gains seem to come a bit easier, but it is hard to tell because i'm coming back from a long layoff. Endurance gains (and ability to do repeated sprints) are very very nice. I had some tendonitis flare up when i first started res by holding in the mouth. It went away after 2-3 weeks even though my regimine is the same. I have been taking 4000IU of vitamin D for some time.

[2tender]

Good news! Joint flare ups usually do dissipate in a brief period, I think the point is to work through it and adapt exercise technique. Its probably wise to continue regimen unless the pain is overt,

[Michael]

All:

Will all of the people who report joint or muscle pains in this thread (and elsewhere) please specify which exact supplement they are/were using, or if not comfortable with this, indicate the nominal purity of the product (50% extract, 99% pure) and other relevant characteristics (special delivery systems, etc)?

Editing the info directly back into extant posts, rather than making a new one, would maximize the utility of reports for future citation and clarify a report's contribution to mechanistic hypotheses.

Thanks!

[2tender]

All:

Will all of the people who report joint or muscle pains in this thread (and elsewhere) please specify which exact supplement they are/were using, or if not comfortable with this, indicate the nominal purity of the product (50% extract, 99% pure) and other relevant characteristics (special delivery systems, etc)?

Editing the info directly back into extant posts, rather than making a new one, would maximize the utility of reports for future citation and clarify a report's contribution to mechanistic hypotheses.

Thanks!

I highly doubt thats going to happen.There are not enough regular posters here to do that. While I likely suspect that my initial joint pain was prompted by a compounded low purity product, I cannot definatively attribute it to that. I do know that once I started taking pure extract it subsided. I cant say that I havent had any joint pain since then, but joint pain happens, its part of the human condition. I think some people may get joint pain unrelated to supplements but mistakingly attribute it to whatever product they just started. I do think that purity, micronization and low emodin content are crucial factors when using Resveratrol.

[TheFountain]

What I do not get is why a body builder would choose to take resveratrol as opposed to any number of other supplements designed for gains. I have never heard of a body builder just deciding out of nowhere to take resveratrol and not arginine, tribulus or any number of multivitamin formulas. Why resveratrol?

[2tender]

What I do not get is why a body builder would choose to take resveratrol as opposed to any number of other supplements designed for gains. I have never heard of a body builder just deciding out of nowhere to take resveratrol and not arginine, tribulus or any number of multivitamin formulas. Why resveratrol?

Because it regulates hormonal balance. Chronic weight-lifting, and other exercise, sports stress etc. can throw levels out of whack. It acts directly in a beneficial way, on HPTA. Or so it seems. JMO

Edited by 2tender, 26 November 2009 - 07:13 AM.

[madbrad]

.... I do think that purity, micronization and low emodin content are crucial factors when using Resveratrol.

I'm hearing/reading this more and more. I've ordered the 99% micronised and should have some feedback in the next week or two.

TheFountain - Hi. I'm not a body builder so I don't really know a lot about bb supplements, but I do know resveratrol has been around for years in the 'more mature' sporting community. I weight-lift, play squash, do BJJ and archery, and the only place I haven't heard/read about it being used is archery. I am talking about the over 40's though. Also, I just googled bodybuilding and resveratrol and there's a fair bit out there.

[2tender]

Madbrad, thanks for posting and glad to hear about your choice to use pure micronized. Consistent ingestion of quality Resveratrol should make a difference, perhaps even a big difference in the way you look, feel, and hopefully, age. Providing feedback here at this board is most helpful. Resveratrol does seem to help exercise stamina, for those that do exercise. There are people that have posted on this board that claim to have taken Resveratrol for years,eventually we will hear from them whether or not it has made an impact on their health and longevity, others have tried it and for some reason or another, most likely low purity, have stopped taking it. It would be interesting to know the number of people who regularly use it and have used it for some time. There must be quite a few, otherwise there would not be a market. I have taken it for close to a year and noticed it has made an impact on exercise and muscle tone.

[mighty]

I decided to start taking resveratrol, not for bodybuilding purposes, but as part as my antiaging regimine, and I noticed that I was getting more gains than I should have been getting. I take other supplements, but Ive been taking these supplements for years. Resveratrol is the only new supplement I take and the gains are tremendous. In a couple months I will let everyone know how much progress it's given me, but Ive gone from 189lbs to 192 lbs since my last post and its clearly lean gains. I have a lot more energy in the gym too.

[2tender]

Mighty,you may want to add MCT Quercetin, available from the leading vendor taken with your daily Resveratrol dose. Please continue posting your progress. In my case I shed pounds of fat, mostly on abs and glutes, the surprising thing was I didnt lose strength or muscle. After an approximate year of use benefits remain, upper body has increased in size, muscle tonus is great and feel better in general. I also take other supps, but, like you didnt notice changes until the addition of Resveratrol. There is something positive regarding Res. although some people claim they cant take it.

Edited by 2tender, 27 November 2009 - 10:32 PM.