16 replies to this topic

[Eugene]

For the longest time i was excited about philosophy, which then turned into a neuroscience interest. Until a short while ago i was convinced that i was going to do a PHD in neuroscience and do research. However, after acquiring research experience, i am having huge doubts.

Firstly, i realized i am not as much curiosity driven as i am driven to solve problems such as disease, aging, and anything else that can be augmented or solved. Scientists that i was exposed to me seemed by and large to be wasting time. Most of the research seemed to me completely trivial. E.g they would study behavior of birds and i would just think to myself "do these peoples seriously give a damn about birds?" They seemed to genuinely care which i could never sympathize with. Another aspect of science that really annoyed me was a complete disregard for priorities and the best methods for finding solutions -- many seem to just sort of fish for an answer as if one cannot find a way to use something equivalent of blowing fish up so they would all float.

And of course i realized that getting a PHD would mean 8 + years of poverty and then slim chances of getting a job. So to cut to the chase, i think i belong in engineering and am contemplating about switching to computer science, and perhaps eventualy move to AI & computational neuroscience & neuroengineering.

Are these concerns legit? Or am i being bias? Any thoughts on the topic? Tips would be very helpful. Thanks!

[platypus]

You could try getting a PhD in a field that would practically guarantee you a job - otherwise getting a PhD is risky and can lead to many low-paid dead-ends. I studied Engineering Physics in a technical university and managed to strike a good balance between the two (science vs. engineering). I'm not sure if I'd recommend computer science or AI at this point, you'd probably be better off studying something closer to biology and bio/neurosciences.

[Daytona0blongata]

For the longest time i was excited about philosophy, which then turned into a neuroscience interest. Until a short while ago i was convinced that i was going to do a PHD in neuroscience and do research. However, after acquiring research experience, i am having huge doubts.

Firstly, i realized i am not as much curiosity driven as i am driven to solve problems such as disease, aging, and anything else that can be augmented or solved. Scientists that i was exposed to me seemed by and large to be wasting time. Most of the research seemed to me completely trivial. E.g they would study behavior of birds and i would just think to myself "do these peoples seriously give a damn about birds?" They seemed to genuinely care which i could never sympathize with. Another aspect of science that really annoyed me was a complete disregard for priorities and the best methods for finding solutions -- many seem to just sort of fish for an answer as if one cannot find a way to use something equivalent of blowing fish up so they would all float.

And of course i realized that getting a PHD would mean 8 + years of poverty and then slim chances of getting a job. So to cut to the chase, i think i belong in engineering and am contemplating about switching to computer science, and perhaps eventualy move to AI & computational neuroscience & neuroengineering.

Are these concerns legit? Or am i being bias? Any thoughts on the topic? Tips would be very helpful. Thanks!

It’s nice to see someone with almost the exact interests as mine- I am finishing up my aa and plan on transferring for my undergrad in neuroscience. I know some about the biology involved- but my ultimate goal is to understand the computation involved in neuroscience.
Knowing that you have done research, does the brain seem to work in a deductive manner, or seem causal? I have the perception that the brain/mind is completely materialistic. What school did you go to (have you gone to)? How far into school were you until you got into research?

[j0lt_c0la]

You could try getting a PhD in a field that would practically guarantee you a job - otherwise getting a PhD is risky and can lead to many low-paid dead-ends. I studied Engineering Physics in a technical university and managed to strike a good balance between the two (science vs. engineering). I'm not sure if I'd recommend computer science or AI at this point, you'd probably be better off studying something closer to biology and bio/neurosciences.

Vote #2 for Engineering Physics, I'm majoring in that with my engineering specialty in computer science. I get to do awesome quantum computing research, and I'm only a sophomore in undergrad!

[Eugene]

Unfortunately what me and you want from neuroscience is not something neuroscience cares about for the most part. The people that do care about it are computational neuroscientists and neuroengineers. That means a lot of math/algorithms/statistics and very little that a typical neuroscience undergraduate major will offer. Neuroscience undergraduate is more of just a general overview of type of stuff that neuroscience do, with almost non-existent applicability. I suggest either choose math/computation part of it or biology part of it. If you choose biology part of it then perhaps something like biochemistry major would do you more good. If you decide on engineering side of it, then do something like biomedical engineering.

Chances are that undergraduate in neuroscience will lock you in to only be able to get a phd in neuroscience, and that means highly focused, seldom theoretical, and quite often boring and mundane research. If you want to figure out the theoretical stuff, and get a general idea of how the brain works computationaly, i suggest computer science. But i am not 100% solid on this and thus posted on this forum.

I am studying in Brooklyn College(cuny) in New York

For the longest time i was excited about philosophy, which then turned into a neuroscience interest. Until a short while ago i was convinced that i was going to do a PHD in neuroscience and do research. However, after acquiring research experience, i am having huge doubts.

Firstly, i realized i am not as much curiosity driven as i am driven to solve problems such as disease, aging, and anything else that can be augmented or solved. Scientists that i was exposed to me seemed by and large to be wasting time. Most of the research seemed to me completely trivial. E.g they would study behavior of birds and i would just think to myself "do these peoples seriously give a damn about birds?" They seemed to genuinely care which i could never sympathize with. Another aspect of science that really annoyed me was a complete disregard for priorities and the best methods for finding solutions -- many seem to just sort of fish for an answer as if one cannot find a way to use something equivalent of blowing fish up so they would all float.

And of course i realized that getting a PHD would mean 8 + years of poverty and then slim chances of getting a job. So to cut to the chase, i think i belong in engineering and am contemplating about switching to computer science, and perhaps eventualy move to AI & computational neuroscience & neuroengineering.

Are these concerns legit? Or am i being bias? Any thoughts on the topic? Tips would be very helpful. Thanks!

It's nice to see someone with almost the exact interests as mine- I am finishing up my aa and plan on transferring for my undergrad in neuroscience. I know some about the biology involved- but my ultimate goal is to understand the computation involved in neuroscience.
Knowing that you have done research, does the brain seem to work in a deductive manner, or seem causal? I have the perception that the brain/mind is completely materialistic. What school did you go to (have you gone to)? How far into school were you until you got into research?

[Cyberbrain]

My advice:

Unlike other fields, becoming an engineer gives you vital problem solving skills (and a problem solving mind set) that you won't get anywhere else! So I would definitely recommend going into any engineering discipline, especially computer science. Don't forget that engineers, unlike science majors, will always be in high demand. Also Aubrey de Grey and Ray Kurzweil were CS majors

If you really like studying the mind (and if your college offers it), you could also go into cognitive science which would offer you the best of the worlds of neuroscience and computer science. Based on interviews with friends who majored in cognitive science, this major gives you great flexibility in choosing your own research and has a large window of opportunity for work.

However, if it's defeating aging that you're interested in than consider majoring in Bioengineering, Biotechnology, or Biomedical Engineering.

If you're still an undergrad, don't focus on what PhD you should do. Focus on choosing a major, getting good grades and finishing your bachelor first and then do a masters in science.

Edited by Cyberbrain, 26 November 2009 - 08:53 PM.

[tunt01]

i will briefly give you my 2 cents, on job prospects. i get this question a lot from people in college, from my alma mater and family/friends.

1. choose a job that cannot be outsourced. typically this is a service type job with high technical expertise. you can easily outsource a guy writing a program to somewherein bangalore india. you cannot outsource a nurse who is treating a patient dying of cancer to india. high-touch, service oriented is important.

2. with respect to these areas of computer engineering/neuroscience, etc. i would focus on picking an area like stem cells and trying to prepare yourself for therapeutic applications of these complex solutions. i would want to be in a situation where 1) i'm directly helping people (because it is rewarding) 2) the medical solution to disease/aging/cognitive issues is highly personalized and complex (therefore, difficult to be a commodity solution like a prescription for a pill that is mass produced) and 3) in a new growing area -- likely stem cell therapies because you want to be involved in an industry that is vibrant and growing long-term.

long-term i think most major pharma companies are going to be in a world of trouble, because the treatments they offer will get replaced by highly customized solutions likely performed in hospitals. nutrigenomics, epigenomic treatments, and highly tailored medical solutions will require thoughtful application of a knowledge base on a person by person basis due to the differentiation in DNA/environmental factors of each person.

not sure if this is the kind of area/phd that strikes your fancy, but this is where i would be aiming if i was to pursue a phd... long-term, at least.

[lunarsolarpower]

Firstly, i realized i am not as much curiosity driven as i am driven to solve problems such as disease, aging, and anything else that can be augmented or solved. Scientists that i was exposed to me seemed by and large to be wasting time.

I had similar thoughts in the few months I spent doing molecular biology research. Engineering might be a good background but it frustrated me because once again, you only are involved in part of the process - planning, designing and "engineering" the product. You rarely if ever have any hands-on involvement in "applying" the engineering to the physical world. For myself it seems that entrepreneurship is the ultimate means to make a large impact. You have to have your science and engineering down and you also have to have your manufacturing and marketing figured out as well. It has the greatest potential for long-term financial pay off although it can be a meager subsistence initially. It's not a bad plan to have a stable job that can be worked at somewhat less than 40 hours per week to provide financial stability while pursuing a business start up on the side. Pursuing a career will also often times provide you with perspective that is useful in clarifying your niche.

If you have an interest in a biotech startup these guys have one heck of a good deal on shared facilities IMO.

[platypus]

Computational biology could be a good choice, it should be relatively easy to pick a niche in which you can find employment for the next ten years. Computer science in itself is not a great bet in my opinion but it augments other fields nicely. I don't think going into AI is necessarily a great idea, if some major breakthroughs happen (not possible to foresee but I doubt it) there you should be able to switch in at that point provided that you have a strong engineering background, i.e. the right tools to grasp that new field quickly.

http://en.wikipedia....ational_biology

[Eugene]

My advice:

Unlike other fields, becoming an engineer gives you vital problem solving skills (and a problem solving mind set) that you won't get anywhere else! So I would definitely recommend going into any engineering discipline, especially computer science. Don't forget that engineers, unlike science majors, will always be in high demand. Also Aubrey de Grey and Ray Kurzweil were CS majors

If you really like studying the mind (and if your college offers it), you could also go into cognitive science which would offer you the best of the worlds of neuroscience and computer science. Based on interviews with friends who majored in cognitive science, this major gives you great flexibility in choosing your own research and has a large window of opportunity for work.

However, if it's defeating aging that you're interested in than consider majoring in Bioengineering, Biotechnology, or Biomedical Engineering.

If you're still an undergrad, don't focus on what PhD you should do. Focus on choosing a major, getting good grades and finishing your bachelor first and then do a masters in science.

Why do you say Masters? I am curious.

[Cyberbrain]

Why do you say Masters? I am curious.

Typically, one usually does a Master of Science before doing a PhD. Again if you're an undergrad then just ignore it and focus only on your Bachelor.

[nksheridan]

For the longest time i was excited about philosophy, which then turned into a neuroscience interest. Until a short while ago i was convinced that i was going to do a PHD in neuroscience and do research. However, after acquiring research experience, i am having huge doubts.

Interesting, as I am considering a 'taught' MSc in Computational Neuroscience & Neuroinformatics. I'm already from a computer science background (self-taught/IT industry experience) and have a bachelors in Life Sciences.

I'm wondering what you have decided? Currently, I've decided to get more 'solid' on maths (I'm so rubbish!), chemistry and physics. I feel that a good range of knowledge differing fields (i.e. Polymath) has been neglected in recent times.

Scientists that i was exposed to me seemed by and large to be wasting time. Most of the research seemed to me completely trivial. E.g they would study behavior of birds and i would just think to myself "do these peoples seriously give a damn about birds?" They seemed to genuinely care which i could never sympathize with.

Research that seems trivial to you is not trivial to those interested! Not everyone is interested in the same topics as yourself. It would be a very boring society if everyone devoted their time to studying the same subject! However, I have had similar thoughts myself as re "trivial research"

[niner]

Why do you say Masters? I am curious.

Typically, one usually does a Master of Science before doing a PhD. Again if you're an undergrad then just ignore it and focus only on your Bachelor.

That's not the usual thing in America. It would be more common, at least in the hard sciences, to go directly from a bachelor's to a PhD program. PhD's are commonly 5 years these days, and include everything that a masters would, so there's not a lot of reason to do a masters separately. In some PhD programs, you can leave in two years with a masters degree, which is sometimes considered kind of a booby-prize for people who wash out. In other schools, though, there are masters programs which require a thesis in addition to coursework. They're almost like a PhD without the title; a particularly bad deal.

[fatboy]

For the longest time i was excited about philosophy, ...

Some 25-30 years ago I was a Philosophy Major. I really dug metaphysics. I still do.

So to cut to the chase, i think i belong in engineering and am contemplating about switching to computer science, and perhaps eventualy move to AI & computational neuroscience & neuroengineering.

My junior year my wife got pregnant at the same time I was taking a class in Realism. I realized that nobody was going to pay to support my family for me to think deep thoughts. I switched my major to Computer Science with a concentration in AI (which adequately quenched my philosophy thirst, so much so that I took my Master's in it). Now they pay me $153,200US to build systems. I still do metaphysics as an avocation, but nobody would pay me that much for my existential meanderings. So I don't think I'm recommending the switch, but I do think I'm saying you could do worse.

Edited by fatboy, 18 December 2009 - 06:04 AM.

[Anthony]

I'm not sure that I have located the right topic area to posit this message, but I couldn't find a better one.

Are any members employed in vocations that indirectly bear on biotech, ai, etc.? In other words, is anyone linked tangentially to these fields? I think we should also include people who are still in school (or going back to school for advanced degrees).

As a start, I am currently pursuing a graduate degree in Healthcare Administration.

[Anderson01]

Engineering Physics is quite good. You can find great career opportunities with this programs.

[caliban]

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