42 replies to this topic

[Mind]

I saw Avatar this weekend. I enjoyed it and it was a spectacle to behold. It was the first 3D movie I had ever seen and it was a cool experience. However, it was not immersive enough to "blow me away", as some people (probably on the studio payroll) had hyped prior to the movie. It was cool but not a quantum leap in entertainment experience IMO. Also, I enjoyed the movie a lot and was drawn into the story, but I think younger viewers will like it a lot more because they might not have seen this plot line and characters at least a dozen times before. The story line was very similar to "Lord of the Rings-Return of the King", "Dances with Wolves", and "Return of the Jedi", among others. Wise and noble indigenous people fight, against all odds, the evil technologically "advanced" people.

[forever freedom]

I saw it too.. my expectations must have been too high, but it's still one hell of a movie and experience. I think i'll see it again this week.

[Cyberbrain]

I also saw Avatar this Friday (in 2D not 3D unfortunately), and I gotta say it was epic! I give it a ten out of ten. It was very enjoyable and a great movie experience. Definitely worth watching!

Okay now my critique (but I still give it a 10/10) ...

First the movie was an exact a rip off from 3 previous films: Dances with the Wolves, Battle for Terra, and FernGully: The Last Rainforest.

Second, there were some huge pragmatic issues. Pandora was an awesome moon, everything about it can be seen as realistic (even having humanoid aliens with a primitive culture similar to tribes from Africa and Native Americans). The part I found unrealistic was the humans. It's supposed to be the year 2154 and there are no signs of transhumanistic technologies. No AI, no robotics (except the Amplified Mobility Platform), no cyborgs, no nanotechnology ... there was some cryonics and other advance technologies (like the avatars). But since this is supposed to take 150 years in the future you'd expect a lot more! Also another part I found unrealistic is that once we discover another planet with alien life (were not alone in the universe) I highly doubt we would take any military action against them (even if its for a rare ore). Lastly I found the military tactics employed to be highly stupid. The RDA (the evil mining corporation with a private mercenary army) had only two vehicles and ground troops. And what do they do? They just charge right in full brute force in a single filled line against the Na'vi. Okay, I give it to them that technology may of not advanced that much in 150 years and that the Na'vi are primitive, but what about military strategy? But that's Hollywood for ya.

Anyway, overall it was an awesome movie experience and I really recommend for everyone to see it!

[Shoe]

I saw the 2D version yesterday (no 3D viewings in my city), and I was so immersed into the beautiful world of Pandora that I almost didn't mind the clichés and the unoriginal and predictable plot at all. It felt just like when I watched the three first Star Wars movies or read The Lord of the Rings trilogy for the first time. Simply put, it was a fantastic experience, and it feels sad that my visit to Pandora was over so quickly. If you haven't seen this movie, buy a ticket now!

Edited by Shoe, 20 December 2009 - 08:44 PM.

[KalaBeth]

At first I wasn't particularly enthusiastic about it just because I'm sick of the self-flagellating "western technological society is evil" conceit of the Dances with Wolves genre* - but it's looking shiny and fun enough it looks worth it anyway. Show me enough shiny pretties and tell a good story - I can be bribed.

The most curious critique I've seen of it so far though is that it's "ableist" - that Our Hero should somehow prefer life in a wheelchair because it's like.. more Diverse or Accepting or something. Maybe for that market segment they could remake Andromeda Strain, where the scientists looking for a cure are the bad guys - "cure" being such a pejorative term after all.







============
* Yeah, other than virtually eliminating famine, slavery, parasitic infection, plague, smallpox, polio - and list of other diseases big and small that's growing every day - what good is Western society, really?

[Anthony]

I would agree with most of the critiques of 'Avatar' posited on this page (both negative and positive). One thing I might add; the movie does discuss mind uploading, albeit in a strange way.

Anthony

[okok]

Just watched it. Awesome movie. Takes you on a trip to another planet.

[A941]

The plot is a little bit strange, i think we will be able to heal paralysed people in less than 140 years, also no one will throw money out of the window for ressources 4 light-years away if we could transform the output of that monstrous reactor 8 lightminutes from here in our backyard.

Also i hope that, if we find another intelligent species, we will see them as more interesting and of higher value than some sort of ore.

[Athanasios]

I had not even seen a trailer or commercial for this when I went to see it. I saw it on a 3D IMAX and was impressed by the visuals, and in terms of immersion of the senses, it was more than any other movie i have seen. I thought the movie plot came off a bit offensive and shallow and am surprised the marines let them use their name (this is likely just me). The plot made me break immersion all too often and prevented 'connecting' with the characters.

If you have a chance to see it on an IMAX set-up, I would recommend doing so.

Edited by cnorwood, 21 December 2009 - 03:46 AM.

[Shoe]

The plot is a little bit strange, i think we will be able to heal paralysed people in less than 140 years,

They had the technology; the main character just couldn't afford the surgery. He was told by the head of the security company that he'd get his legs back if he could provide him with information about the Na'vi.

Edited by Shoe, 21 December 2009 - 04:39 AM.

[nootrope]

Just saw this in 3D and agree on the awesomeness of the visuals and the engrossing story. However, I must say that in a list of things that seem unrealistic, you really ought to include the floating mountains!

[trance]

Technology was awesome, but the story was a repeat of the Smurf movie ... blue people not withstanding.

[forever freedom]

http://www.realbolly...top-236-mn.html


I'm so glad Avatar is earning lots of money. I'd hate to see such a bold project fail financially, since it would mean a lower likelihood of other projects such as this one to be undertaken.

[sentrysnipe]

i didn't like the subtle afro inspired tribes jab and the war aspect of it but other than that, james cameron's tantrums have paid off.

[A941]

Hm i dont know if this is okay (and politically correct) to be said in that way, but thats what i think about it:
Camerons Navi seem to be a tribe more advanced and worth to be protected than some so called cultures here on earth, and iam not talking about the bushmen and other indigen tribes, they have my respect, i think you know what i want to say...
Am I right?

[Shannon Vyff]

If you've not seen other 3-D, then you'd not appreciate what a game changer Avatar is for the field. I loved the movie, and thought it was excellent to take my three kids to--some of it was heavy handed, there were some plot holes--but it still transported us to a different realm for a while, I give it 8 out of 10!

[Cyberbrain]

I heard rumors that there will be 2 Avatar sequels!

[forever freedom]

I heard rumors that there will be 2 Avatar sequels!

http://www.mtv.com/m...605/story.jhtml

Yes, we'll probably have at least one sequel. It makes sense, after so much work and money that was put into this movie. Now they have a lot ready for a sequel, it's going to take much less work.

[niner]

I just saw it tonight, and I thought it was great. After all the talk here of the cheesy plot, I almost didn't go. I'm glad I did. I didn't think the plot was that bad, even if it had 2D characters in a 3D world. Sometimes I like an action picture that doesn't ask me to think. I was really impressed with the Pandoran life forms, particularly the plants and those little glowing jellyfish-like things. It's pretty cool that people can go to a movie and see some shit get blowed up real good, and be exposed to the whole avatar concept without really batting an eye. The culture of the Na'vi might be more subversive, but the high tech stuff will slip into their consciousness at the same time. It's good that movies are this good at exposing us to weirdness, because the future is going to be full of it; it's nice to have a chance to see something that stretches your ideas about life.

[valkyrie_ice]

Simply put, I will never pay to see this movie.

I refuse to support anything preaching a Malthusian Greenpeace message. Which this does in spades. "Technology is evil! Only primitive existence is good!"

I am sick to death of Hollywood pushing and preaching the abandon technology! It's the only way to save the planet! meme.

Yeah, woopie! It pushes the envelop... by condemning everything that made it possible and trying to make you feel guilty for existing in an advanced society.

Think of it what you will. This movie is a direct assault on everything that Transhumanism is about, while trying to masquerade as a technological tour de force.

And it would have been so easy to make it a positive statement too. If the Navi had simply been a POST-Technological society that had chosen to lead a simple life, it would have been everything it claims to be and isn't.

[Shepard]

Cameron knows how to make good cinema (True Lies being debateable). This movie is no exception. Again, he got great performances from his actors, and it was beautiful. It's not the most complicated movie, and the plot is hurried in some spots (odd for an almost 3-hour movie), but I enjoyed it.

I saw it in 3-D, unfortunately. I really dislike 3-D movies. I find the quality of the picture superior in 2-D, and the glasses are cumbersome. Maybe my opinion will change with improving technology.

[Eugene]

The "primitive" civilization they encountered is not so primitive and might as well be the post-human direction we take. First step is robot-metal-looking technology followed by organic interwoven oness.

The problem I found is that they try to portray the primitive civilization as relating to nature here on earth and obviously our nature is far more cruel and un-motherly. Our nature is cruel and waistful. The only way the save the planet bullshit can work is if they make a romanticized caricature of our nature which they did and I hate them for it. Show it for what it is. And if we want it to be different, science is our choice of sorcery, the only sorcery that actually works. Yeah that world is cool but we need to design it, and the way we get there is not by going back to nature, it is by replacing it with what it should had been all along had it had a watchmaker.

I just really hope people realize that the very thing portrayed as desirable can only be achieved through what is portrayed as undesirable. Technology and corporation has it's negative, no doubt, but it is a necessary evil on the road to a new Rome.

When will they stop releasing trans-humanist dystopia and for once show technology being the true white magic of our world. People long for banding nature for our will, but the answer is not the Harry Potter magic and it's potions, it is chemistry, physics and all that is Scientific. That wise old man with a beard, that's not Gandalf, it is -- a Giant of science, standing gracefully, fearless in the face of unknown.

Edited by Eugene, 28 December 2009 - 04:58 PM.

[Elus]

That old man with a beard, that's not Gandalf, it is -- a Giant of science, standing gracefully, fearless in the face of unknown.

Poetic truth. Well said.

[CerebralCortex]

The "primitive" civilization they encountered is not so primitive and might as well be the post-human direction we take. First step is robot-metal-looking technology followed by organic interwoven oness.

The problem I found is that they try to portray the primitive civilization as relating to nature here on earth and obviously our nature is far more cruel and un-motherly. Our nature is cruel and waistful. The only way the save the planet bullshit can work is if they make a romanticized caricature of our nature which they did and I hate them for it. Show it for what it is. And if we want it to be different, science is our choice of sorcery, the only sorcery that actually works. Yeah that world is cool but we need to design it, and the way we get there is not by going back to nature, it is by replacing it with what it should had been all along had it had a watchmaker.

I just really hope people realize that the very thing portrayed as desirable can only be achieved through what is portrayed as undesirable. Technology and corporation has it's negative, no doubt, but it is a necessary evil on the road to a new Rome.

When will they stop releasing trans-humanist dystopia and for once show technology being the true white magic of our world. People long for banding nature for our will, but the answer is not the Harry Potter magic and it's potions, it is chemistry, physics and all that is Scientific. That wise old man with a beard, that's not Gandalf, it is -- a Giant of science, standing gracefully, fearless in the face of unknown.

QFT!!! You need to be on some outreach team!!!! :D

[niner]

It's not as simple as nature good, technology bad. That wasn't the message here. The "message", if there was one, was more along the lines of militarism and unthinking use of technology (that was frankly quite primitive) was bad, and the really high technology was good. The scientists running the avatars were the good guys, and the militarists were the bad guys. There are people who think the movie was racist, too, which just shows that people can read into the movie whatever they want.

[Elus]

It's not as simple as nature good, technology bad. That wasn't the message here. The "message", if there was one, was more along the lines of militarism and unthinking use of technology (that was frankly quite primitive) was bad, and the really high technology was good. The scientists running the avatars were the good guys, and the militarists were the bad guys. There are people who think the movie was racist, too, which just shows that people can read into the movie whatever they want.

It appeared to me that nature was portrayed as good. It was our species, wielding man-made technology, that sought to extract raw resources at the expense of a beautiful natural environment. The na'vi did not create advanced technologies or manipulate their environment to the same extent that humans do on earth. Thus, one could argue that this was a battle of a cruel, technology abusing species vs. a relatively primitive, nature-loving species.

In that sense, technology is being villainized and nature upheld. That is the only problem I have with this movie. Other than that, I did enjoy it a lot. It was visually stunning.

But I agree, there are different perspectives that can be taken.

Edited by Elus Efelier, 29 December 2009 - 01:41 AM.

[niner]

It's not as simple as nature good, technology bad. That wasn't the message here. The "message", if there was one, was more along the lines of militarism and unthinking use of technology (that was frankly quite primitive) was bad, and the really high technology was good. The scientists running the avatars were the good guys, and the militarists were the bad guys. There are people who think the movie was racist, too, which just shows that people can read into the movie whatever they want.

It appeared to me that nature was portrayed as good. It was our species, wielding man-made technology, that sought to extract raw resources at the expense of a beautiful natural environment. The na'vi did not create advanced technologies or manipulate their environment to the same extent that humans do on earth. Thus, one could argue that this was a battle of a cruel, technology abusing species vs. a relatively primitive, nature-loving species.

In that sense, technology is being villainized and nature upheld. That is the only problem I have with this movie. Other than that, I did enjoy it a lot. It was visually stunning.

But I agree, there are different perspectives that can be taken.

Well, sure, nature was portrayed as good, but only if you worked with it. If you didn't know what you were doing, nature was portrayed as something that would kick your ass and eat you for dinner. So it wasn't uniformly good. Technology and humans were not uniformly bad. There were good humans (the high tech scientists) and bad humans (the militarists and the asshole corporate guy). I think it was an indictment of militarism and corporatism more than anything else. The Navi had their woo-woo Gaian spiritualism, but then Star Wars had The Force and nobody complained much about that. Maybe that was because the Jedi were mostly human, but the Navi are clearly non-human, so a lot of people take Avatar as an anti-human movie. I think it was only anti certain humans.

Edited by niner, 29 December 2009 - 03:20 AM.

[SATANICAT]

This movie was
Terminator +
Pocahontas +
Pokemon =
Rise of the Poke-montas

[Elus]

It's not as simple as nature good, technology bad. That wasn't the message here. The "message", if there was one, was more along the lines of militarism and unthinking use of technology (that was frankly quite primitive) was bad, and the really high technology was good. The scientists running the avatars were the good guys, and the militarists were the bad guys. There are people who think the movie was racist, too, which just shows that people can read into the movie whatever they want.

It appeared to me that nature was portrayed as good. It was our species, wielding man-made technology, that sought to extract raw resources at the expense of a beautiful natural environment. The na'vi did not create advanced technologies or manipulate their environment to the same extent that humans do on earth. Thus, one could argue that this was a battle of a cruel, technology abusing species vs. a relatively primitive, nature-loving species.

In that sense, technology is being villainized and nature upheld. That is the only problem I have with this movie. Other than that, I did enjoy it a lot. It was visually stunning.

But I agree, there are different perspectives that can be taken.

Well, sure, nature was portrayed as good, but only if you worked with it. If you didn't know what you were doing, nature was portrayed as something that would kick your ass and eat you for dinner. So it wasn't uniformly good. Technology and humans were not uniformly bad. There were good humans (the high tech scientists) and bad humans (the militarists and the asshole corporate guy). I think it was an indictment of militarism and corporatism more than anything else. The Navi had their woo-woo Gaian spiritualism, but then Star Wars had The Force and nobody complained much about that. Maybe that was because the Jedi were mostly human, but the Navi are clearly non-human, so a lot of people take Avatar as an anti-human movie. I think it was only anti certain humans.

Ay, there be nuances. Rig the boats, lads. We be swimming in a sea of shades of gray!

[shawn]

Interesting movie.
Thumbs up.
It is just another movie though...certainly not epic, but I enjoyed it.