7 replies to this topic

[bocadillodelomo]

So through a long and rough journey and might i add, very expensive.. I have been trying different probiotics to take care of this condemnable bloating that occurs after eating, but alwys present. I've noticed that whenever i take lactobacillus, my symptoms get worse and eventually causes constipation in me. Even with large amounts of bifido bacteria. However, the higher the ratio of bifido/lacto, the better i do on it. Anyone else experience this?

Am i the only one that does better on bifido but terrible on lacto? I've always had trouble with bloating and just a feeling of fullness from taking probiotics and i found a few others who are like that. I also got a CDSA done and it kind of confirmed my theory in a sense. I have very high lacto count (4+, 2+ is optimal) and low bifido (3+, 4+ is a must). And although Google suggests otherwise, i think it is quite possible to take too many probiotics, especially of the wrong strain. Anyone experience what im talkin about or am i just alone on this? hahah

For example: i bought customprobiotics bthinking it was goign to be great at 200 billion per scoop. well, caused constipation. the owner said it was too strong for me and to take less. I've tried the infamous theralac that has a higher lacto count than bifido, and that actually ended up giving me heartburn and acid. And i started to realize that it's possible to have an Lactobacillus overgrowth. Too much lactobacillus, causes too much lactic acid= heartburn and acid reflux. The minute i stopped theralac, went away. Natren's healthy trinity was better for me, but mixed results occurred. Good at first, then 2 months in constipating.

Anyone know of any good BIFIDO only (and without FOS or inulin0 probiotics out there? I did a search and saw that someone recommended Maxi Bifidus DF from Ethical Nutrients. How is that going...?

[lynx]

There is some evidence suggesting that bifida populations decrease and lose diversity as we age, so what you are experiencing makes sense.

Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care, 2003 Jan, 6(1), 49 - 54
Gut changes attributed to ageing: effects on intestinal microflora; Hebuterne X; PURPOSE OF REVIEW: There is increased evidence of several impaired gastrointestinal functions with ageing . In the elderly, however, most gastrointestinal functions remain relatively intact because of the large reserve capacity of the intestine and the great secretion capacity of the pancreas . This review will focus on changes in gut microflora observed in the elderly and on the potential benefit of probiotics in this population . RECENT FINDINGS: Recent studies suggest that age affects the intestinal microflora with a decrease in anaerobes and bifidobacteria population and an increase in enterobacteria . These changes and the reduced intestinal immunity of the aged may favour gastrointestinal infections that are frequent in the elderly . Clostridium difficile-associated diarrhoea, one of the most common nosocomial infections in the elderly, has a profound effect on morbidity, mortality and health costs . Probiotics may have interesting positive effects on intestinal function, and the efficacy of treatment with Lactobacilli and Saccharomyces boulardii in Clostridium difficile-associated diarrhoea has been well established in a recent meta-analysis . Studies performed in healthy elderly patients suggest that diet supplementation with probiotics may reduce the impaired immunity associated with ageing . SUMMARY: Important changes in intestinal microflora of the elderly have recently been demonstrated and may have important clinical consequences . Further studies should be conducted to determine if the consumption of probiotics is associated with a lower infection rate and a higher effectiveness of vaccines.

J Med Microbiol. 2002 May;51(5):448-54.
Changes in predominant bacterial populations in human faeces with age and with Clostridium difficile infection.

Hopkins MJ, Macfarlane GT.

MRC Microbiology and Gut Biology Group, University of Dundee Medical School. m.j.hopkins@dundee.ac.uk

The bacterial composition of human faeces can vary greatly with factors such as age and disease, although relatively few studies have monitored these events, particularly at species level. In this investigation, bacteria were isolated from faecal samples from healthy young adults and elderly subjects, and elderly patients with Clostridium difficile-associated diarrhoea (CDAD). The organisms were identified to species level on the basis of their cellular fatty acid profiles with the MIDI system. In some groups of bacteria, species diversity was found to change with age despite the overall numbers of organisms being similar at genus level. Bacteroides thetaiotaomicron, B. ovatus and Prevotella tannerae were common gram-negative anaerobes isolated from young adults. Bacteroides species diversity increased in the faeces of healthy elderly people. Bifidobacterial species diversity decreased with age, with Bifidobacterium adolescentis and Bif. angulatum being the most common isolates. CDAD patients were characterised by greater diversity of facultative species, lactobacilli and clostridia, but greatly reduced numbers of bacteroides, prevotella and bifidobacteria. Such bacterial population changes in the normal microbiota could result in metabolic conditions favourable for the establishment of pathogenic micro-organisms, such as clostridia, and would have considerable effects on the biochemical capacity of the large intestine as a whole. Alterations in the community structure of bifidobacteria and lactobacilli have relevance for dietary and therapeutic interventions such as the use of pre- or probiotics that aim to modify the composition or metabolic activities of the intestinal microflora in a beneficial way, particularly in elderly people or individuals at risk of CDAD.

[bocadillodelomo]

There is some evidence suggesting that bifida populations decrease and lose diversity as we age, so what you are experiencing makes sense.

Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care, 2003 Jan, 6(1), 49 - 54
Gut changes attributed to ageing: effects on intestinal microflora; Hebuterne X; PURPOSE OF REVIEW: There is increased evidence of several impaired gastrointestinal functions with ageing . In the elderly, however, most gastrointestinal functions remain relatively intact because of the large reserve capacity of the intestine and the great secretion capacity of the pancreas . This review will focus on changes in gut microflora observed in the elderly and on the potential benefit of probiotics in this population . RECENT FINDINGS: Recent studies suggest that age affects the intestinal microflora with a decrease in anaerobes and bifidobacteria population and an increase in enterobacteria . These changes and the reduced intestinal immunity of the aged may favour gastrointestinal infections that are frequent in the elderly . Clostridium difficile-associated diarrhoea, one of the most common nosocomial infections in the elderly, has a profound effect on morbidity, mortality and health costs . Probiotics may have interesting positive effects on intestinal function, and the efficacy of treatment with Lactobacilli and Saccharomyces boulardii in Clostridium difficile-associated diarrhoea has been well established in a recent meta-analysis . Studies performed in healthy elderly patients suggest that diet supplementation with probiotics may reduce the impaired immunity associated with ageing . SUMMARY: Important changes in intestinal microflora of the elderly have recently been demonstrated and may have important clinical consequences . Further studies should be conducted to determine if the consumption of probiotics is associated with a lower infection rate and a higher effectiveness of vaccines.

J Med Microbiol. 2002 May;51(5):448-54.
Changes in predominant bacterial populations in human faeces with age and with Clostridium difficile infection.

Hopkins MJ, Macfarlane GT.

MRC Microbiology and Gut Biology Group, University of Dundee Medical School. m.j.hopkins@dundee.ac.uk

The bacterial composition of human faeces can vary greatly with factors such as age and disease, although relatively few studies have monitored these events, particularly at species level. In this investigation, bacteria were isolated from faecal samples from healthy young adults and elderly subjects, and elderly patients with Clostridium difficile-associated diarrhoea (CDAD). The organisms were identified to species level on the basis of their cellular fatty acid profiles with the MIDI system. In some groups of bacteria, species diversity was found to change with age despite the overall numbers of organisms being similar at genus level. Bacteroides thetaiotaomicron, B. ovatus and Prevotella tannerae were common gram-negative anaerobes isolated from young adults. Bacteroides species diversity increased in the faeces of healthy elderly people. Bifidobacterial species diversity decreased with age, with Bifidobacterium adolescentis and Bif. angulatum being the most common isolates. CDAD patients were characterised by greater diversity of facultative species, lactobacilli and clostridia, but greatly reduced numbers of bacteroides, prevotella and bifidobacteria. Such bacterial population changes in the normal microbiota could result in metabolic conditions favourable for the establishment of pathogenic micro-organisms, such as clostridia, and would have considerable effects on the biochemical capacity of the large intestine as a whole. Alterations in the community structure of bifidobacteria and lactobacilli have relevance for dietary and therapeutic interventions such as the use of pre- or probiotics that aim to modify the composition or metabolic activities of the intestinal microflora in a beneficial way, particularly in elderly people or individuals at risk of CDAD.

Oh yeah, thanks for the articles. I actually did read that. But not really applicable to me since I'm fairly young. but I feel the market for probiotics are so biased for lacto and not enough companies actually produce bifido supplements.

[Minni]

I've tried it all, including top brands such as Immunocal Platinum, and yet another $18 supplement everyone was staticking about on the net.

Turns out that plain old yogurt is better for me than any of the probiotic supplements.

I believe there was a study by ConsumerReports a few years ago, proving that real yogurt is the most superior.

As for lactose intolerance, I believe some people with lactose intolerance are able to tolerate yogurt.

As for constipation, it never fails that sweeteners helps my constipation since they're humectant, especially if combined with something like cheerios or chex. Chocolate products also helps alot for constipation, believe it or not.

the key to avoid constipation is:
SWEETENED WARM FOOD + OILY LUBRICANTS
avoid:
rice/dry stuff/dry pills/cold stuff

Edited by Minni, 25 January 2010 - 01:24 AM.

[VespeneGas]

I've tried it all, including top brands such as Immunocal Platinum, and yet another $18 supplement everyone was staticking about on the net.

Turns out that plain old yogurt is better for me than any of the probiotic supplements.

I believe there was a study by ConsumerReports a few years ago, proving that real yogurt is the most superior.

As for lactose intolerance, I believe some people with lactose intolerance are able to tolerate yogurt.

As for constipation, it never fails that sweeteners helps my constipation since they're humectant, especially if combined with something like cheerios or chex. Chocolate products also helps alot for constipation, believe it or not.

the key to avoid constipation is:
SWEETENED WARM FOOD + OILY LUBRICANTS
avoid:
rice/dry stuff/dry pills/cold stuff

Unless it's activia, it doesn't have enough CFU's to make a substantial impact on intestinal flora composition. Activia does have the bifidobacteria you're looking for.

I've had great success with Align, which is also a very well studied bifidobacteria.

I'm not sure anything in the quoted post is true, other than sorbitol (and possibly other sweeteners) acting as humectants. I think, provided the individual avoids dehydration and maintains high fiber intake, eating dry, cold food/pills and/or brown rice shouldn't pose any problems vis a vis constipation.

Personally, I found my constipation completely resolved with regular magnesium supplementation.

[brunotto]

Bifido---> Th2
Lacto---> Th1

[VespeneGas]

Bifido---> Th2
Lacto---> Th1

citation needed.


Titre du document / Document title
In vitro TH1 cytokine-independent TH2 suppressive effects of bifidobacteria
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
IWABUCHI Noriyuki ; TAKAHASHI Noritoshi ; XIAO Jin-Zhong ; MIYAJI Kazuhiro ; IWATSUKI Keiji ;
Résumé / Abstract
A comparison between 17 strains of lactic acid bacteria and 15 strains of bifidobacteria indicated that bifidobacteria induced significantly lower levels of interleukin-12 (IL-12) in murine splenic cells. The present study aims to evaluate the effect and mechanism of Bifidobacterium longum BB536, a probiotic strain, in suppressing antigen-induced Th2 immune response in vitro. BB536 suppressed immunoglobulin (Ig) E and IL-4 production by ovalbumin-sensitized splenic cells, but induction of Th1-inducing cytokine production, such as IL-12 and gamma interferon (IFN-γ) tended to be lower compared with lactic acid bacteria. Neutralization with antibodies to IL-12, IFN-γ, IL-10 and transforming growth factor p indicated negative involvement of Th1-inducing cytokines and regulatory cytokines in the suppression of Th2 immune response by BB536, especially when treated at higher doses of BB536 (>10 μg cells/ml). Furthermore, BB536 induced the maturation of immature bone marrow-derived dendritic cells (BM-DCs), and suppressed antigen-induced IL-4 production mediated by BM-DCs. These results suggested that BB536 suppressed Th2 immune responses, partially independent of Th1-inducing cytokines and independent of regulatory cytokines, mediated by antigen-presenting cells such as dendritic cells.
Revue / Journal Title
Microbiology and immunology ISSN 0385-5600 CODEN MIIMDV

[bocadillodelomo]

Bifido---> Th2
Lacto---> Th1

citation needed.


Titre du document / Document title
In vitro TH1 cytokine-independent TH2 suppressive effects of bifidobacteria
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
IWABUCHI Noriyuki ; TAKAHASHI Noritoshi ; XIAO Jin-Zhong ; MIYAJI Kazuhiro ; IWATSUKI Keiji ;
Résumé / Abstract
A comparison between 17 strains of lactic acid bacteria and 15 strains of bifidobacteria indicated that bifidobacteria induced significantly lower levels of interleukin-12 (IL-12) in murine splenic cells. The present study aims to evaluate the effect and mechanism of Bifidobacterium longum BB536, a probiotic strain, in suppressing antigen-induced Th2 immune response in vitro. BB536 suppressed immunoglobulin (Ig) E and IL-4 production by ovalbumin-sensitized splenic cells, but induction of Th1-inducing cytokine production, such as IL-12 and gamma interferon (IFN-γ) tended to be lower compared with lactic acid bacteria. Neutralization with antibodies to IL-12, IFN-γ, IL-10 and transforming growth factor p indicated negative involvement of Th1-inducing cytokines and regulatory cytokines in the suppression of Th2 immune response by BB536, especially when treated at higher doses of BB536 (>10 μg cells/ml). Furthermore, BB536 induced the maturation of immature bone marrow-derived dendritic cells (BM-DCs), and suppressed antigen-induced IL-4 production mediated by BM-DCs. These results suggested that BB536 suppressed Th2 immune responses, partially independent of Th1-inducing cytokines and independent of regulatory cytokines, mediated by antigen-presenting cells such as dendritic cells.
Revue / Journal Title
Microbiology and immunology ISSN 0385-5600 CODEN MIIMDV

Hmm, someone care to elaborate what this means? I'm not familiar with Th2 and TH1 or cytokines.

It's interesting about yogurt, i have heard some people say that after trying many many probiotics they do better on yogurt. Yogurt doesn't have much of a bacteria count, and Activia is the only i can think of that has a bifido strain called bifido animalis. When I tried organic yogurt, it just made my stomach hurt. Not too bad but it didn't feel right so i never tried it again. Not sure what that was but maybe it was die off.

I wonder why regardless of bacteria count, some people do better on low count probiotics like Align (which has only 1 billion of bifantis) and Probifia, or yogurt, and others can tolerate things like VSL#3 with 450 billion bacteria! And then probiotics like New Chapter's All Flora is made of strictly fermented food (which is comparable to yogurt essentially) and have helped a lot of people out there. I guess everyone's gut is different.