19 replies to this topic

[Morgan F]

Question. I take 5k IU for Vitamin D daily. I take it in capsule form because it's the only form sold in my country.

However, I've read on these forums that the gelcap form is better. Does anyone know any way around this? Specifically;

A.) If I mix the powder from the capsule with something oily (like olive oil?) -- will that achieve the same absorption levels as a gelcap?

B.) If the absorption is worse in powder/capsule form, can I compensate for it by taking more? If so, how much? For example: if the powder (not oil) reduces absorption by 50%, can I just take double the amount to get the same result? If so, does anyone know how much the powder/capsule reduces absorption by?

Thank you!
morgan

[ajnast4r]

take your pill with a meal containing 15-20g of fat, but not a high fiber meal. dry capsule absorbtion should only be an issue if taken with a meal containing little to no fat.

[niner]

A.) If I mix the powder from the capsule with something oily (like olive oil?) -- will that achieve the same absorption levels as a gelcap?

This would probably work, although there is likely to be some material in the capsule that will not dissolve. There is actually very little vitamin D there, most of the powder is some sort of inert ingredient.

B.) If the absorption is worse in powder/capsule form, can I compensate for it by taking more? If so, how much? For example: if the powder (not oil) reduces absorption by 50%, can I just take double the amount to get the same result? If so, does anyone know how much the powder/capsule reduces absorption by?

Yes, you could compensate by taking more. The problem is, the amount you absorb will vary according to lipid level. Everyone should get their 25-OH Vitamin D3 levels checked as part of figuring out how much D to supplement; that would help you figure out how much to take.

I agree with ajnast4r's suggestion to take the pill with a high-fat meal. If you only occasionally have a high fat meal, you could take multiple day's worth at one time. The half life of vitamin D is so long that some people take it only once every 2 weeks, though they take a fairly large dose, like 50,000 IU.

[M4Y0U]

I agree that vitamin D is a fat soluble vitamin but don't forget that it's a steroid hormone and more specifically a prohormone which means i doesn't have any hormone activity until it is converted into 1,25-D. Best absorption is from sunlight and seriously it doesn't matter really which one is better or what absorption is better since you are taking 5,000UI a day of more less D including cholecalciferol or calcitriol. Consider that a full sun exposure of 30 min to 1 hour at noon is over 6,000UI converted into 1,25-Dihydroxycholecalciferol. Anyway avoid mineral oil because it will interfere with your vitamin D (1,25-Dihydroxycholecalciferol again) absorption and take it with calcium. Taking fat with vitamin D...hum...not really. And don't confuse the long half-life of 25OHD with the short half-life of D3 (cholecalciferol) itself which is relatively short (more or less 24 hours) due to the lipophilic nature of the molecule.

Best regards,
M4

[ajnast4r]

I agree that vitamin D is a fat soluble vitamin but don't forget that it's a steroid hormone and more specifically a prohormone which means i doesn't have any hormone activity until it is converted into 1,25-D. Best absorption is from sunlight and seriously it doesn't matter really which one is better or what absorption is better since you are taking 5,000UI a day of more less D including cholecalciferol or calcitriol. Consider that a full sun exposure of 30 min to 1 hour at noon is over 6,000UI converted into 1,25-Dihydroxycholecalciferol. Anyway avoid mineral oil because it will interfere with your vitamin D (1,25-Dihydroxycholecalciferol again) absorption and take it with calcium. Taking fat with vitamin D...hum...not really. And don't confuse the long half-life of 25OHD with the short half-life of D3 (cholecalciferol) itself which is relatively short (more or less 24 hours) due to the lipophilic nature of the molecule.

Best regards,
M4

i didnt really understand what you were saying but its not a good idea to supplement with calcitriol. calcitriol conversion is tightly regulated and supplementation makes an overdose VERY easy.

sun is also not the best source of vitamin D and daily 1 hour long sun exposure to noon sun is a bad idea at best.

[M4Y0U]

I agree that vitamin D is a fat soluble vitamin but don't forget that it's a steroid hormone and more specifically a prohormone which means i doesn't have any hormone activity until it is converted into 1,25-D. Best absorption is from sunlight and seriously it doesn't matter really which one is better or what absorption is better since you are taking 5,000UI a day of more less D including cholecalciferol or calcitriol. Consider that a full sun exposure of 30 min to 1 hour at noon is over 6,000UI converted into 1,25-Dihydroxycholecalciferol. Anyway avoid mineral oil because it will interfere with your vitamin D (1,25-Dihydroxycholecalciferol again) absorption and take it with calcium. Taking fat with vitamin D...hum...not really. And don't confuse the long half-life of 25OHD with the short half-life of D3 (cholecalciferol) itself which is relatively short (more or less 24 hours) due to the lipophilic nature of the molecule.

Best regards,
M4

i didnt really understand what you were saying but its not a good idea to supplement with calcitriol. calcitriol conversion is tightly regulated and supplementation makes an overdose VERY easy.

sun is also not the best source of vitamin D and daily 1 hour long sun exposure to noon sun is a bad idea at best.

The reason you make such reply is the reason why you didn't understand my post too. When i say calcitriol i mean the active form of vitamin D not the drug, check the definition if you want. I never said to go full sun exposure without protection at noon was a good idea i was just saying that to say how easily the prohormone (vitamin D from the sun) is easy to get.

Best regards,
M4

[niner]

Anyway avoid mineral oil because it will interfere with your vitamin D (1,25-Dihydroxycholecalciferol again) absorption and take it with calcium.

Not sure why anyone would be drinking mineral oil, but why would it interfere with D absorption? You don't need to take calcium with D. If you don't get enough calcium in your diet, then you should supplement.

Taking fat with vitamin D...hum...not really.

Incorrect. What do you base this on? It's harmless at worst, and may be essential for absorption depending on the formulation of the D3.

And don't confuse the long half-life of 25OHD with the short half-life of D3 (cholecalciferol) itself which is relatively short (more or less 24 hours) due to the lipophilic nature of the molecule.

Lipophilic molecules have longer, not shorter half lives than hydrophilic molecules, generally speaking. Be that as it may, cholecalciferol is rapidly converted to 25-OH-D, the storage form. So what you point out here is technically correct, but in practice, supplemental vitamin D3 can be treated as though it has a 20-29 day half life, since it does stick around, albeit in a slightly modified form.

[M4Y0U]

Anyway avoid mineral oil because it will interfere with your vitamin D (1,25-Dihydroxycholecalciferol again) absorption and take it with calcium.

Not sure why anyone would be drinking mineral oil, but why would it interfere with D absorption? You don't need to take calcium with D. If you don't get enough calcium in your diet, then you should supplement.

Taking fat with vitamin D...hum...not really.

Incorrect. What do you base this on? It's harmless at worst, and may be essential for absorption depending on the formulation of the D3.

And don't confuse the long half-life of 25OHD with the short half-life of D3 (cholecalciferol) itself which is relatively short (more or less 24 hours) due to the lipophilic nature of the molecule.

Lipophilic molecules have longer, not shorter half lives than hydrophilic molecules, generally speaking. Be that as it may, cholecalciferol is rapidly converted to 25-OH-D, the storage form. So what you point out here is technically correct, but in practice, supplemental vitamin D3 can be treated as though it has a 20-29 day half life, since it does stick around, albeit in a slightly modified form.

Why not take mineral oil with D? Because it's a lipid solvent and i didn't say that like someone would drink it, it is used in many applications http://en.wikipedia....iki/Mineral_oil . Why i said taking fat with D not really? Because there are enough fats in our body to do the job and thru our nutrition but yeah taking your D in the morning with an egg would be a good idea. I agree that with a good diet you have enough calcium and i never told him to get calcium supplement it is just that the calcium and vitamin D relation is important to point out. Anyway you can check this out if you want http://www.naturalne...human_body.html - http://www.lookingfi...-vitamin-d.html

Your are right about the 20-29 half-life but i just wanted to make sure no one confuses the half-life of two different things.

Best regards,
M4

[ajnast4r]

no offence, but you really need to work on your conversational english before posting more.

Edited by ajnast4r, 11 February 2010 - 03:40 AM.

[ajnast4r]

you need to work on your conversational english man... its hard to follow what youre saying.

[ajnast4r]

whoever is deleting my posts needs to email me and explain why

[M4Y0U]

whoever is deleting my posts needs to email me and explain why

Because you need to make a point regarding to the original topic and not a personal comment about me. If you have a personal comment about me ''just email me and explain why''.

Edited by M4Y0U, 11 February 2010 - 03:56 AM.

[ajnast4r]

whoever is deleting my posts needs to email me and explain why

Because you need to make a point regarding to original topic and not a personal comment about me.

what i said was very relevant to this topic and wasn't meant as an insult. youre putting sentences together in a way that alludes to a different meaning than what i believe youre intending.

[M4Y0U]

whoever is deleting my posts needs to email me and explain why

Because you need to make a point regarding to original topic and not a personal comment about me.

what i said was very relevant to this topic and wasn't meant as an insult. youre putting sentences together in a way that alludes to a different meaning than what i believe youre intending.

This should not be done in public, now see how we are off topic.

[niner]

Anyway avoid mineral oil because it will interfere with your vitamin D (1,25-Dihydroxycholecalciferol again) absorption and take it with calcium.

Not sure why anyone would be drinking mineral oil, but why would it interfere with D absorption? You don't need to take calcium with D. If you don't get enough calcium in your diet, then you should supplement.

Taking fat with vitamin D...hum...not really.

Incorrect. What do you base this on? It's harmless at worst, and may be essential for absorption depending on the formulation of the D3.

And don't confuse the long half-life of 25OHD with the short half-life of D3 (cholecalciferol) itself which is relatively short (more or less 24 hours) due to the lipophilic nature of the molecule.

Lipophilic molecules have longer, not shorter half lives than hydrophilic molecules, generally speaking. Be that as it may, cholecalciferol is rapidly converted to 25-OH-D, the storage form. So what you point out here is technically correct, but in practice, supplemental vitamin D3 can be treated as though it has a 20-29 day half life, since it does stick around, albeit in a slightly modified form.

Why not take mineral oil with D? Because it's a lipid solvent and i didn't say that like someone would drink it, it is used in many applications http://en.wikipedia....iki/Mineral_oil . Why i said taking fat with D not really? Because there are enough fats in our body to do the job and thru our nutrition but yeah taking your D in the morning with an egg would be a good idea. I agree that with a good diet you have enough calcium and i never told him to get calcium supplement it is just that the calcium and vitamin D relation is important to point out.

Lipid solvents are exactly what you want with lipophilic compounds. In the case of mineral oil, there would be a problem since it's largely unabsorbed, but again, it's pretty rare for people to consume it. It's occasionally used as a laxative, but even that application is in decline. There are fats in our body, but none of them are in the right place to help with the absorption of a lipophilic compound. You really do need to take the fat orally with the compound if it's not formulated in an oil. An egg doesn't contain enough fat to do much good. (Five grams for a large hardboiled egg.) A bacon and cheese omelet cooked in butter would do it. Finally, when you tell someone to "take it with calcium" that is usually construed to mean with supplemental calcium. Otherwise you should say "make sure you have enough calcium in your diet".

[M4Y0U]

^Thanks for bringing the topic back. Well it depends on who you are. If you are a fat person i would not tell you to cook a bacon and cheese omelet cooked in butter with your daily vitamin D. See we have enough fat in our body and diet to make good use of the vitamin D. For an obese person i think he haves enough reserves to back up the D hehe. As for the lipid solvent well it is regarding the mineral oil that will take all the D and flush it out since it's not absorbed by the body at all!

''Vitamin D levels may be decreased by the following medications. If you take any of these medications, ask your doctor if you need more vitamin D:

Antacids -- Taking certain antacids for long periods of time may alter the levels, metabolism, and availability of vitamin D.

Anti-seizure medications -- these medications include:

* Phenobarbital
* Phenytoin (Dilantin)
* Primidone (Mysoline)
* Valproic acid (Depakote)

Bile acid sequestrants -- used to lower cholesterol. These medications include

* Cholestyramine (Questran, Prevalite)
* Cholestipol (Colestid)

Rifampin -- used to treat tuberculosis

Mineral oil -- Mineral oil also interferes with absorption of vitamin D.

Orlistat (Alli) -- a medication used for weight loss that prevents the absorption of fat. Because of its effect on fat, orlistat may also prevent the absorption of fat-soluble vitamins such as vitamin D. Physicians who prescribe orlistat also add a multivitamin with fat soluble vitamins.''

http://www.umm.edu/a...in-d-000340.htm

edited by Matthias: a quote of a quote of a quote of some quotes deleted

Edited by Matthias, 13 February 2010 - 01:16 PM.

[niner]

I don't think you really understand the physiology of drug and nutrient absorption. All the fat in the world isn't going to help you absorb a compound if that fat is already locked up in adipose tissue. The compound will never come in contact with it. The only fat that matters is the fat that we are eating at or near the time we take the compound. It's very common for people to eat meals that simply don't have enough fat to facilitate absorption of a dry formulation of vitamin D. That's why it's important to use an oil-based formulation. I would tell the fat person to eat more fat, and less carbs. (Assuming they are interested in losing weight and being more healthy.)

edited by Matthias: a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of some quotes deleted

Edited by Matthias, 13 February 2010 - 01:17 PM.

[M4Y0U]

lol it was clear i was joking about the obese guy since i added ''hehe'' at the end and as I mentioned in my earlier post that it was about us westerners having enough fat in out diet. I understand the physiology of drug and nutrient absorption pretty well and you can go check my profile to see my background. Anyway i agree with you that if someone is not consuming any lipids during breakfast and is taking a D well i would go for a oil-based formulation. But for me i know i don't need to because I include lipids in my breakfast: soy milk, biologic/organic cereals, egg, omega-3 added fruit juice. Regarding to what i would suggest to the fat guy well i would suggest low carbs and way less saturated fat and instead go for the mono and polysaturated fats. Anyway this is getting stupid, i should have never said the words ''mineral oil'' even tho it interferes with vitamin D absorption and the OP asked for such inputs. Anyway I'm kind of done on this topic all that had to be said have been said.

M4

edited by Matthias: a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of some quotes deleted

Edited by Matthias, 13 February 2010 - 01:18 PM.

[Morgan F]

Thank you everyone for your great insights! I know what I need to do now! And I didn't mean to start a mini-flame war - sorry!

morgan

[kurdishfella]

it can be absorbed differently in the say stomach than the small intestine or big