21 replies to this topic

[The Immortalist]

I think we should all plan for a defense against terrorists targeting people who want aging to be cured, specifically scientists who are working on it.
Why? It is because when it is shown you can extend healthy life in mice by a very great amount, some low life, bio conservative, religious fanatic, terrorist organization or whatever will probably come over and shoot Aubrey de greys brains out, and bomb and destroy all the research done on developing anti aging therapies. And they would probably come to Al cor and bomb the cryonics centre

It is just a potentially real possibility I would like to point out. I would hate to see that when there is finally life extension therapies it gets ruined by not enough careful planning and preparation to protect the Life extension cause.

[VictorBjoerk]

Why do you think this would be a real possibility at all. Please motivate more.

[The Immortalist]

Why do you think this would be a real possibility at all. Please motivate more.

A real possibility? I don't know, but it is always good to prepare for the unexpected. There's probably a lot of freaks out there that would think it would be "going against god or something equally ridiculous" and want to stop it no matter what. It need not be a terror organization to worry about, it could be just one insane person who decides to go into a research lab or something and shoot everyone he see's then kills himself.

I'm just saying that if we like it or not we are dealing with controversial stuff here and we need to ensure that we have the best measures possible in place in the future to protect our cause of ending aging. We don't have to worry about this stuff right now, we don't have clear enough evidence it is possible to cure aging, but when "Robust mouse rejuvenation" happens it is a possibility that the things I have said might possibly happen.

[N.T.M.]

As far as devising a strategy... I'm not sure. I'd say it is a valid threat though.

[Mind]

It is a valid threat, especially if a longevity or cryonics development/breakthrough comes suddenly.

So many people in the world like to think they rational, tolerant, and accept change, when in reality they just go postal when confronted with something different. If a longevity breakthrough/treatment developed "overnight" there would be a whole lot of people who would revolt. I think there would be a lot violence. To us, it would be something worth celebrating, but for all the people who are in the death trance, or have structured their entire world/life/philosophy around a short limited "natural" lifespan, or a religious death/afterlife theme, it would be a great horror.

[ben951]

I think many people will tend to compromise with their religious or philosophical beliefs when they actually see those therapies working for other.

Right now it's easier to choose death since there's no alternative, death trance is actually a way to cope with the inevitability of death, when the choice will exist it will be another story, I suspect many will still accept to die but just not right now.( I still have a lot to accomplish, help other etc..)

I don't think religions clearly forbid to extend ones life and after all we will still be mortal.

I think the greatest treat comes rather from people who won't have access to those therapy

If I don't make it just because I'm poor and unlucky you won't either.

Edited by ben951, 22 February 2010 - 12:34 PM.

[The Immortalist]

I think many people will tend to compromise with their religious or philosophical beliefs when they actually see those therapies working for other.

Right now it's easier to choose death since there's no alternative, death trance is actually a way to cope with the inevitability of death, when the choice will exist it will be another story, I suspect many will still accept to die but just not right now.( I still have a lot to accomplish, help other etc..)

I don't think religions clearly forbid to extend ones life and after all we will still be mortal.

I think the greatest treat comes rather from people who won't have access to those therapy

If I don't make it just because I'm poor and unlucky you won't either.

It wouldn't just be religious people to worry about, I'm just talking about the possibility of any type of serious violence towards this cause no matter what the motivation for it might be.

[ben951]

It wouldn't just be religious people to worry about, I'm just talking about the possibility of any type of serious violence towards this cause

I agree that's why I wrote :

I think many people will tend to compromise with their religious or philosophical beliefs when they actually see those therapies working for other.

no matter what the motivation for it might be.

To prevent or fight it, knowing the motivations is essential, if it's because those therapies will be too expensive making them cheaper is the way to go, if it's another motivation then another fight plan is necessary.

Edited by ben951, 23 February 2010 - 12:51 PM.

[Kolos]

I don't think religions clearly forbid to extend ones life and after all we will still be mortal.

It depends what religion because for Christianity and Islam death is actually a possitive thing.
But more importantly at least in Christianity human body is somehow sacred, if things like "unnatural" anticonception is banned why should it be different with prolonging your natural God-given lifespan? Not to mention suicide is also forbidden so if this method potentially allows you to live forever you might have a serious problem if you are Christian, want to finally see God but there's no any war or natural disaster where you live. In the long run this kind of technology will be a huge blow to the Abrahamic religions and I would be surprised if they weren't strongly against it.

[Cyberbrain]

I think we should all plan for a defense against terrorists targeting people who want aging to be cured, specifically scientists who are working on it.
Why? It is because when it is shown you can extend healthy life in mice by a very great amount, some low life, bio conservative, religious fanatic, terrorist organization or whatever will probably come over and shoot Aubrey de greys brains out, and bomb and destroy all the research done on developing anti aging therapies. And they would probably come to Al cor and bomb the cryonics centre

It is just a potentially real possibility I would like to point out. I would hate to see that when there is finally life extension therapies it gets ruined by not enough careful planning and preparation to protect the Life extension cause.

Currently I don't think we face any threat. But in the coming decades when breakthroughs occur, and even more importantly: life extension becomes socially acceptable than there will definitely be opposition.

If there are Immortalists than there is no doubt that there are Amortalists out there. Amortalists strongly believe that it is socially destructive for people to live forever, as this can result in a stagnant, ultraconservative society dominated by individuals concerned only with continuing their own lives.

Amortalists activists will attempt to influence legislation to oppose (for example) state-funded health care planes that will include provision for expensive or mass longevity treatments.

Example of modern day political activists: Leon Kass

Anti-Technology Terrorism: Theodore Kaczynski, Ecoterrorism

There will also be Amortalists who include religious groups who believe secular immortality is against God's plan or defers heavenly rewards. These include many groups but primarily will be radical Christians and Muslims who already show evidence against science and technological progress.

See also: Primitivism, Neo-Luddism

And of course you have a whole bunch of conspiracy theorists against transhumanism too.

Personally I divide such opposition into two groups:
Right Wing Bioluddism: oppose immortality for traditionalistic and religiuos reasons.
Left Wing Bioluddism: oppose immortality for environmental or social reasons.

How to deal with future threats: I don't know; use secrecy or extra security?

However, with an opposition movement growing, there will also be another extreme imo: Cybergnostics.

Cybergnosticism is an extremist form of transhumanism. This is the belief that the physical world is impure or inefficient, and that existence in the form of "pure information" should be pursued. Just speculating now, Cybergnostics would probably be heavily dependent on technology, supporting destructive mind uploading (brain is destroyed in order to be scanned online) and cyber-terrorism, believing such views that "impure beings" have no place in their dreamed technotopia. Cybergnostics also includes theists wanting to reach/become God through the advancement of technology.

Overall, in the coming decades and centuries we will have a lot to deal with. But till then we have a long way to go before these technologies actually become a reality.

[The Immortalist]

Overall, in the coming decades and centuries we will have a lot to deal with. But till then we have a long way to go before these technologies actually become a reality.

Yes that is why we must plan for whatever we will have to deal with. I don't care how long it will take for the technologies to become reality.

[Putz]

Overall, in the coming decades and centuries we will have a lot to deal with. But till then we have a long way to go before these technologies actually become a reality.

Yes that is why we must plan for whatever we will have to deal with. I don't care how long it will take for the technologies to become reality.

Private security corporations are becoming bigger and bigger due to the limited scope of public police, the immortal movement and its component corporations will definitely hire security in the future, especially since maximum biological preservation is such a priority.

[chris w]

I think many people will tend to compromise with their religious or philosophical beliefs when they actually see those therapies working for other.

Right now it's easier to choose death since there's no alternative, death trance is actually a way to cope with the inevitability of death, when the choice will exist it will be another story, I suspect many will still accept to die but just not right now.( I still have a lot to accomplish, help other etc..)

I don't think religions clearly forbid to extend ones life and after all we will still be mortal.

I think the greatest treat comes rather from people who won't have access to those therapy

If I don't make it just because I'm poor and unlucky you won't either.

Right, the only threat that I would forsee is by those denied the latest medical achievements. Now, the only difference is that they die sooner than people who have access, but if the alternative was dying / not dying at all, I think hell could be unleashed by the unprivileged. As for those able to get the terapies, I am sure they would all stand in line, and all of those modern fundamentalists would probably come with some excuse like "I want to wait for The Kingdom of Heavens to come in this body, so I can see my grandsons growing up etc. etc." It all comes down to psychological strategies to cope with death in my opinion, once there is no death - no strategies are needed.

Edited by chris w, 18 April 2010 - 04:08 PM.

[ken_akiba]

I have a dire view. The moment sizable longevity or immortality becomes available with high price tag, mankind will face unprecedented turmoil. For this, I think, the affluent will go any length to keep it secret, which, I believe, will stand no chance in the advent of internet.

Edited by ken_akiba, 12 May 2010 - 04:20 AM.

[SiliconAnimation]

I think we should all plan for a defense against terrorists targeting people who want aging to be cured, specifically scientists who are working on it.
Why? It is because when it is shown you can extend healthy life in mice by a very great amount, some low life, bio conservative, religious fanatic, terrorist organization or whatever will probably come over and shoot Aubrey de greys brains out, and bomb and destroy all the research done on developing anti aging therapies. And they would probably come to Al cor and bomb the cryonics centre

It is just a potentially real possibility I would like to point out. I would hate to see that when there is finally life extension therapies it gets ruined by not enough careful planning and preparation to protect the Life extension cause.

Or maybe someone will just conveniently ignore criminal activity until it gets out of hand and becomes a casus belli for cause 'a, b, c' or 'd'.

Really... "Terrorism?" I think people should worry about criminal activity but, this fear is just a political game. I'd pay more attention to the more sane sorts of things to watch out for like fraud, thuggery, persecution or discrimination sorts of activities. Besides, a whole lot of security companies would probably enjoy nothing more than to lift a couple of bucks off of frightened Immortalists who aren't really all that sure where 'the threat' is coming from without some funded advice. It will hamper research efforts almost as much as an actual threat would to dedicate all the funding towards combatting it. (Just take a look at the current costs)

The best thing to stop problems from occuring is to make sure you have consensus, understanding and approval within the people who are going to be affected by radical changes to their lifestyles in the future. This doesn't take a whole lot of effort so much as it does a little bit of listening to other's concerns. If getting to the point of actual life extension is so problematic that fanatics start exploding around the place, you can rest assured someone is slacking or just totally disconnected and alien to the people when it comes to working with them and is maybe just enjoying the profitteering off of the fear and backlash.

[hooter]

The abrahamic religions are cults of death and welcome it with open arms. It's the most frightening and disturbing thing I can possibly imagine. How people can derive comfort from this is absolutely incomprehensible to me.

Edited by hooter, 15 January 2012 - 03:24 AM.

[NewWhale]

The real threat comes from religious extremists who believe that we're "playing God" with immortality.

I don't think there's an immediate threat though. Probably in the next 10 years.

[hooter]

The real threat comes from religious extremists who believe that we're "playing God" with immortality.

I don't think there's an immediate threat though. Probably in the next 10 years.

You're absolutely right. Check out this case from 2009:

" -

WICHITA, Kan. —

George Tiller

One of only a few doctors in the nation who performed abortions late in pregnancy, was shot to death here Sunday in the foyer of his longtime church as he handed out the church bulletin."

They think this is already 'playing god'.

[NewWhale]

The real threat comes from religious extremists who believe that we're "playing God" with immortality.

I don't think there's an immediate threat though. Probably in the next 10 years.

You're absolutely right. Check out this case from 2009:

" -

WICHITA, Kan. —

George Tiller

One of only a few doctors in the nation who performed abortions late in pregnancy, was shot to death here Sunday in the foyer of his longtime church as he handed out the church bulletin."

They think this is already 'playing god'.

So you can just imagine how working on immortality will be perceived by these extremists.

[1thoughtMaze1]

I think we should all plan for a defense against terrorists targeting people who want aging to be cured, specifically scientists who are working on it.
Why? It is because when it is shown you can extend healthy life in mice by a very great amount, some low life, bio conservative, religious fanatic, terrorist organization or whatever will probably come over and shoot Aubrey de greys brains out, and bomb and destroy all the research done on developing anti aging therapies. And they would probably come to Al cor and bomb the cryonics centre

It is just a potentially real possibility I would like to point out. I would hate to see that when there is finally life extension therapies it gets ruined by not enough careful planning and preparation to protect the Life extension cause.

Haha, it's you we need to worry about.

[Elus]

It would be immensely difficult to put a stop to the research that leads to life extension breakthroughs. Think about how many labs there are around the world working on aging related research. It would be immensely difficult to stop all of it by shooting a few people.

Note to future readers: If I do happen to be killed as an aging researcher (highly unlikely), let the supreme irony of this post be acknowledged.

[corb]

I think we should all plan for a defense against terrorists targeting people who want aging to be cured, specifically scientists who are working on it.

I think this is more or less as implausible as the government limiting the procedures to certain parts of the population. And I fail to see why anyone would like to attack scientists working on cures for cancer and alzheimer.

Amortalists strongly believe that it is socially destructive for people to live forever, as this can result in a stagnant, ultraconservative society dominated by individuals concerned only with continuing their own lives.

We already live in a society like this. I doubt there will ever be an organized movement against extending your lifespan, because lets face it - the research won't happen overnight, it'll probably take decades and probably even as much as a century or two so there will be supple time for society to ease in on the idea. Furthermore, we live in an aging society, there are going to be less and less kids being born in the future and it's not a trend that could be easily reversed - the more old people we have the easier it would be to market the procedures.

Edited by corb, 07 March 2012 - 02:13 PM.