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3 grams of tween/RESV -- How Deadly?


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#31 maxwatt

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 03:30 AM

Continuous NAMPT and/or SIRT1 activation by resveratrol would interfere with the CLOCK mediated feedback loops. Something like jet lag, which can be life-shortening. Bear in mind that mice are nocturnal, people are not.


Do you work with mice or rats? I worked in a cancer research institute injecting, tending to the vermon, euthanizing them, doing autopsies, collecting tissues. There was the constant rustle in the animal rooms day and night. Water and chow would be consumed day and night. Placing RESV in water or chow will get RESV into mice and rats pretty much 24 hours a day. Mice, rats and bats are relatives but bats are a whole lot more "nocturnal".


Exactly so, unless some effort is made to schedule. Sinclair's negative finding for life-extension in non-obese mice despite improved health could be due to such confounding factors. Or not. I did work with mice and canines. Gastric cannulas and such.

Bats are not so closely related to mice as once thought. And a mouse lives but two years, a bat over thirty. Mice are nocturnal if they have a choice, but a lab environment is pretty disruptive, and fluorescent lights are not a substitute for natural light. Remember the mice in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy? They controlled the planet from the lab.

#32 niner

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 06:36 AM

It's also the wrenching pain in my stomach then the squirts after taking 12 capsules each of your Nitro and your MCT Q on an empty stomach.

Browser, if the literature on quercetin is to be trusted, it is a profoundly potent inhibitor of the sulfotransferase enzyme that is responsible for a big chunk of the metabolism of resveratrol. As such, you shouldn't need to dose it gram for gram with resveratrol. You could probably get by just fine with a lot less of the quercetin. This might help both the stomach pain and the runs, and it would certainly cost less.

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#33 browser

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 03:15 PM

It's also the wrenching pain in my stomach then the squirts after taking 12 capsules each of your Nitro and your MCT Q on an empty stomach.

Browser, if the literature on quercetin is to be trusted, it is a profoundly potent inhibitor of the sulfotransferase enzyme that is responsible for a big chunk of the metabolism of resveratrol. As such, you shouldn't need to dose it gram for gram with resveratrol. You could probably get by just fine with a lot less of the quercetin. This might help both the stomach pain and the runs, and it would certainly cost less.


Niner, thanks a lot. I need to research this. I've gone along with Anthony who says take one MCT Q with each Nitro 250 and Dr. Snuffy Myers, who says the same. As learned as Dr. Myers is, since he shifted from Longi*** to Nitro 250, I wonder if Dr. Myers, a very busy prostate cancer oncologist, doesn't take things he gets from suppliers for granted. The medical profession tends to do that with drugs from Pharma. Quercetin also has a prostate AR effect as well, but since I dose it (Jarrow brand) during the day and don't get stomach upset or the runs when I do that, perhaps I should cut down on the MCT Q or spread my dose of it throughout the day. The canon ball in the gut effect I'm getting I suspect has a lot to do with downing massive amounts of medium chain triglycerides. I take my throid (Hey, I'm being treated by a naturopathic M.D. Everybody get's Armour throid.), 12 MCT Q, 12 Nitro 12 upon arising. Canon ball hit in gut, runs. I wait an hour. Take my 50 grams of IP6+Inositol. Runs. Wait and hour, have breakfast. I'm so full of MCT that I have little appetite for breakfast. No, it's not the RESV. I feel for hours after taking my 12 MCT Q that I shouldn't have gotten up in the middle of the night and eaten all of that fatty food that didn't digest well. Except I slept through the night. The MCT is making me feel so bad. When I take (Jarrow) Q, I take 3 grams at a time and it doesn't give me the canon ball in the gut effect.

#34 health_nutty

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 07:04 PM

I forgot to mention. Best of luck with your condition!

#35 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 05:17 AM

I wonder if Dr. Myers, a very busy prostate cancer oncologist, doesn't take things he gets from suppliers for granted. The medical profession tends to do that with drugs from Pharma.


Browser, maybe you need to consult with him and ask him.
I highly suspect if a better product is brought to the market, he would recommend it over any other product, including ours.

Making inferences because your situation is difficult, is not the way to go.

Best of luck, specially if you are creating your own regimen mostly on your own. That is a very difficult thing. I believe the FirstImmortal really listened to folks regarding his regimen, even though he did have flaws that may have hindered his health. I would still look at his regimen to see if there is anything worthy for you to consider.

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 11 March 2010 - 05:18 AM.


#36 maxwatt

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 12:58 PM

Browse, Anthony --

Might Browser's gastrointestinal upset be due to the amount of Tween80 he is getting taking 12 pills at a time? (rather than the MCT oil.)

As for prostate cancer itself, let me call your attention to this New York Times Op-Ed piece, written by the inventor of the PSA antigen test used to detect the condition: The Great Prostate Mistake

The test gives an alarming number of false positivies, it's detection rate is under 4%, and most prostate cancers are so slow growing most will die of other causes before it becomes a problem. A very small percentage of cases are aggressive, and by the time this is discovered, even with the PSA test, it is too late. One test of outcome in the US found no difference in death rate between men treated for prostate cancer and those untreated. A European study found a slight difference, on the order of one in 50. However surgery or radiation leave most ment treated impotent and incontinent. Yuch. Browser, you are going the right way.

Resveratrol is very effective in vitro against breast cancer cells, and anecdotal stories support it's effectiveness in canines. As yet no human studies have been completed, but I am very optimistic on that score. This is relevant to prostate cancer because of similarities in the tissue and the cancers:what works for one is likely to work for the other. Perhaps Anthony knows of resveratrol studies vis a vis prostate cancer?

#37 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 03:26 PM

12 capsules is a lot and he also takes other capsules like the 12 MCT Quercetin at the same time.

The Nitro also has MCT as well. I believe he mentioned that the MCT Quercetin still causes the issues... so it's likely not the tween. Just to let you know, I don't think any Dr. is asking his patients to consider 12 capsules a day for any reason.

I did have a customer in a 'similar' situation who simply tried any form of resveratrol (500mg not 12 capsules...), and still had gastrointestinal issues...

It is uncommon, but maybe his system is similar and can't handle resveratrol very well.
BTW: I do like your gelatin idea...

As a side note the current IND application moving through the system using the Nitro250, will measure a few things but will not be cancer related. Psychiatric and cognitive measures will be taken as secondary items, but I can't say what the primary ones will consist of at this time. I will let you guys know, once I have permission to do so. I have been told that it will be in the public domain, and others will be able to reference the IND application, instead of starting from scratch... which I think is a good thing.

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 11 March 2010 - 03:45 PM.


#38 niner

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 03:43 PM

However surgery or radiation leave most ment treated impotent and incontinent. Yuch. Browser, you are going the right way.

Surgery, particularly traditional open surgery, is a lot better than that. My brother has prostate cancer, and he did a lot of research into it. His decision, after all his research, was to go with open surgery. I've forgotten the exact numbers, but a substantial majority of men who had open surgery maintained function six months later.

#39 browser

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 04:15 PM

I wonder if Dr. Myers, a very busy prostate cancer oncologist, doesn't take things he gets from suppliers for granted. The medical profession tends to do that with drugs from Pharma.


Browser, maybe you need to consult with him and ask him.
I highly suspect if a better product is brought to the market, he would recommend it over any other product, including ours.

Making inferences because your situation is difficult, is not the way to go.

Best of luck, specially if you are creating your own regimen mostly on your own. That is a very difficult thing. I believe the FirstImmortal really listened to folks regarding his regimen, even though he did have flaws that may have hindered his health. I would still look at his regimen to see if there is anything worthy for you to consider.


I have mildly aggressive prostate cancer which is contained entirely within the capsule. I am not at all in the state FirstImmortal was. I'm also not doing this on my own. I have a slew of doctors. My naturopathic M.D. approves of my experiments, one of which, IP6+Inositol, has proved to be a great success. My PSA is dropping, dropping, dropping and my symptoms are going away. My doctors are quite encouraged by this. So my experiments with RESV are icing on the cake, something to potentially bring about remission faster and save me the high cost of twice weekly Vitamin C infusions.

The inference I draw from Dr. Myers is that in lower doses of RESV, perhaps a 1 to 1 with Q is a good idea. But in higher doses? There's evidence that a one for one intake of Quercetin to forestall RESV metabolism by the liver is unnecessary. I don't need to take 12 MCT Quercetin with Nitro 250. It looks like 4 MCT Quercetin with 12 Nitro 250 appears more appropriate.

I'll know in a week or two when my blood tests come back, but it appears that my addition of higher dose Longev*** and then Nitro 250 and MCT Quercetin has been successful. I developed many symptoms from the prostate cancer that looked like retrograde ejaculation and BPH. I use the abatement of these symptoms and the doctors use my PSA and other lab results to gauge my progress in moving my PCa towards remission.

I'm not going to spend $2,000 not covered by insurance to go see Dr. Myers when I have his advice to his many patients available to me online. It's true that he doesn't recommend 3 grams of RESV and 3 grams of Q to deal with PCa, but he does recommend 1 gram of each. I'm going for faster remission than Dr. Myers aims for.

In summary, I'm not without medical support, I'm going toward remission and I'm experiment with things that are working. I suspect my use of 3 grams RESV and 3 grams MCT Q will only last a few months.

Now to get the patent number of water soluble curcumin in gelatin. There are a million PCa patients around the world eager for this knowledge.

Edited by browser, 11 March 2010 - 04:17 PM.


#40 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 08:58 PM

Sounds great Browser, thanks for the post...

Please keep us posted as it is always good to here what folks are trying out, and if it seems to work better/worse than expected.

A

#41 bixbyte

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 11:07 PM

I am not looking to suppress my PSA. I'm looking to kill PCa. Preventing DHT runs counter to current thinking on the cause and maintenance of prostate cancer. I will not try it because it's not a good idea. Thank you for your suggestion. I will pass even if someone gives me $1250 USD a month to take Propecia. I took Propecia for my hair years ago about the time I suspect my PCa started.



IMHO, You need to inhibit HER-2 receptors and Propecia appears to have that ability by converting Testosterone as an Androgen hormone inhibitor.
But you might be wasting your precious time and money with Supplements?


_____________________________________


Abstract
Given the role of the EGFR/HER2 family of tyrosine kinases in breast cancer, we dissected the molecular basis of EGFR/HER2 kinase signaling in prostate cancer. Using the small molecule dual EGFR/HER2 inhibitor PKI-166, we show that the biologic effects of EGFR/HER-2 pathway inhibition are caused by reduced AR transcriptional activity. Additional genetic and pharmacologic experiments show that this modulation of AR function is mediated by the HER2/ERBB3 pathway, not by EGFR. This HER2/ERBB3 signal stabilizes AR protein levels and optimizes binding of AR to promoter/enhancer regions of androgen-regulated genes. Surprisingly, the downstream signaling pathway responsible for these effects appears to involve kinases other than Akt. These data suggest that the HER2/ERBB3 pathway is a critical target in hormone-refractory prostate cancer.


http://www.cell.com/...6108(04)00303-4

#42 bixbyte

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 11:26 PM

I'm concerned that I'm pulling so much iron out of the PCa that the Vitamin C can't find enough to cause hydroxyl ROS.


IMHO, Do not be too concerned.
Cancer cells and normal cells are created from the same DNA.
There is no differentiation process in existence to the best of my knowledge.
So I would have to conclude there is not any Reactive Oxygen Species occurring via IV Vita C.
But, I am not an MD and not held accountable for your therapy.
Good luck with your prostate cancer.

#43 browser

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 12:26 AM

I'm concerned that I'm pulling so much iron out of the PCa that the Vitamin C can't find enough to cause hydroxyl ROS.


IMHO, Do not be too concerned.
Cancer cells and normal cells are created from the same DNA.
There is no differentiation process in existence to the best of my knowledge.
So I would have to conclude there is not any Reactive Oxygen Species occurring via IV Vita C.
But, I am not an MD and not held accountable for your therapy.
Good luck with your prostate cancer.


I just read a report of a test where gold nanocages where used with infrared light to selectively kill tumors. Cancer cells and normal cells are not created from the same DNA. The genome of lung cancer was recently created. There are 50,000 gene differences between lung cancer and regular long tissue. There are 4,000 mutations caused by smoking one cigarette. Those mutations might not be any or might be a proper subset of the 50,000 needed to produce a lung cancer cell. Cancer cells are not only genetically from normal cells, they express genes differently than normal cells. The P53 gene, the gene which is supposed to kill cancer cells is down regulated in cancer cells. If cancer cells were not different than normal cells in many ways there would not be all of these new drugs being developed, tested and deployed which target cancer. We'd be back to just using something that kills all cells or using X-rays. Cancer cells pool iron and also produce less glutothione, making them a lot less protected against assault by ROS.

This thread is about taking 3 grams of tween/RESV daily not about telling me I'm wasting my money because I'm not taking propecia (I am taking other AR inhibitors which work in a similar way as propecia) or to take jabs at my Vitamin C infusions.

Perhaps this thread should be closed. I've been taking 3 grams of RESV with tween 80 plus a bunch of RESV bucally. I'm still alive and getting healthier.

#44 tunt01

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 02:41 AM

I just read a report of a test where gold nanocages where used with infrared light to selectively kill tumors. Cancer cells and normal cells are not created from the same DNA. The genome of lung cancer was recently created. There are 50,000 gene differences between lung cancer and regular long tissue. There are 4,000 mutations caused by smoking one cigarette. Those mutations might not be any or might be a proper subset of the 50,000 needed to produce a lung cancer cell. Cancer cells are not only genetically from normal cells, they express genes differently than normal cells. The P53 gene, the gene which is supposed to kill cancer cells is down regulated in cancer cells. If cancer cells were not different than normal cells in many ways there would not be all of these new drugs being developed, tested and deployed which target cancer. We'd be back to just using something that kills all cells or using X-rays. Cancer cells pool iron and also produce less glutothione, making them a lot less protected against assault by ROS.


the guy who invented this was profiled on 60 minutes not too long ago. if you search through their videos on cbsnews.com for a guy named John Kanzius. he died, but his research is living on.

#45 bixbyte

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 06:56 AM

I'm concerned that I'm pulling so much iron out of the PCa that the Vitamin C can't find enough to cause hydroxyl ROS.


IMHO, Do not be too concerned.
Cancer cells and normal cells are created from the same DNA.
There is no differentiation process in existence to the best of my knowledge.
So I would have to conclude there is not any Reactive Oxygen Species occurring via IV Vita C.
But, I am not an MD and not held accountable for your therapy.
Good luck with your prostate cancer.


I just read a report of a test where gold nanocages where used with infrared light to selectively kill tumors. Cancer cells and normal cells are not created from the same DNA. The genome of lung cancer was recently created. There are 50,000 gene differences between lung cancer and regular long tissue. There are 4,000 mutations caused by smoking one cigarette. Those mutations might not be any or might be a proper subset of the 50,000 needed to produce a lung cancer cell. Cancer cells are not only genetically from normal cells, they express genes differently than normal cells. The P53 gene, the gene which is supposed to kill cancer cells is down regulated in cancer cells. If cancer cells were not different than normal cells in many ways there would not be all of these new drugs being developed, tested and deployed which target cancer. We'd be back to just using something that kills all cells or using X-rays. Cancer cells pool iron and also produce less glutothione, making them a lot less protected against assault by ROS.

This thread is about taking 3 grams of tween/RESV daily not about telling me I'm wasting my money because I'm not taking propecia (I am taking other AR inhibitors which work in a similar way as propecia) or to take jabs at my Vitamin C infusions.

Perhaps this thread should be closed. I've been taking 3 grams of RESV with tween 80 plus a bunch of RESV bucally. I'm still alive and getting healthier.



I am not taking jabs
I felt bad reading that you have prostate cancer and thought that my personal research would help.
Sorry - Goodbye I am gone.

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#46 browser

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 02:16 PM

I'm concerned that I'm pulling so much iron out of the PCa that the Vitamin C can't find enough to cause hydroxyl ROS.


IMHO, Do not be too concerned.
Cancer cells and normal cells are created from the same DNA.
There is no differentiation process in existence to the best of my knowledge.
So I would have to conclude there is not any Reactive Oxygen Species occurring via IV Vita C.
But, I am not an MD and not held accountable for your therapy.
Good luck with your prostate cancer.


I just read a report of a test where gold nanocages where used with infrared light to selectively kill tumors. Cancer cells and normal cells are not created from the same DNA. The genome of lung cancer was recently created. There are 50,000 gene differences between lung cancer and regular long tissue. There are 4,000 mutations caused by smoking one cigarette. Those mutations might not be any or might be a proper subset of the 50,000 needed to produce a lung cancer cell. Cancer cells are not only genetically from normal cells, they express genes differently than normal cells. The P53 gene, the gene which is supposed to kill cancer cells is down regulated in cancer cells. If cancer cells were not different than normal cells in many ways there would not be all of these new drugs being developed, tested and deployed which target cancer. We'd be back to just using something that kills all cells or using X-rays. Cancer cells pool iron and also produce less glutothione, making them a lot less protected against assault by ROS.

This thread is about taking 3 grams of tween/RESV daily not about telling me I'm wasting my money because I'm not taking propecia (I am taking other AR inhibitors which work in a similar way as propecia) or to take jabs at my Vitamin C infusions.

Perhaps this thread should be closed. I've been taking 3 grams of RESV with tween 80 plus a bunch of RESV bucally. I'm still alive and getting healthier.



I am not taking jabs
I felt bad reading that you have prostate cancer and thought that my personal research would help.
Sorry - Goodbye I am gone.


There are many very knowledgeable people here on this forum. There are also thousands of doctors and researchers who have prostate cancer. Hundreds of thousands of PCa patients world wide share the latest research on cancer and specifically prostate cancer in real time thanks to the Internet. Some studies, like the one cited on Propecia, are exciting and interesting. But they need to be taken in the context of what's becoming recognized within the PCa community. Prostate cancer exists in teenage boys. Autopsies done on 18-21 year old boys/men show prostate cancer. The evidence is that prostate cancer becomes malignant as the result of a swing in the balance of Testosterone and DHT versus Estradiol as production of Testosterone declines with age. Of course inflammation, genetics and epigenetics set the stage for this hormone balance swing to cause latent prostate cancer to become malignant and aggressive.

There are studies which show that supplying Testosterone and DHT helps prevent growth of and often kills prostate cancer.

There's a lot of evidence building up that IV Vitamin C can control and kill prostate cancer.

Your personal research, bixbyte, might be more appreciated if offered to the PCa patient community at large where it can be evaluated in light of the ever growing collection of reports by clinicians and researchers. PM me if you need pointers to PCa Internet communities.

Thanks for your input.




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