50 replies to this topic

[Fleet]

I have taken Creatine some years in the past for fitness improvement. I stopped at the point I got satisfied with my body and did not wanted to grow any bigger because I did not wish to burn more energy than was necessary (the calorie restriction came into my life). so I kept a healthy lean body with some regular exercises "without" the Creatine.

But these days I'm more interested in making long productive work days (I also became a vegetarian). and I started thinking about the days I took Creatine and had a lot of energy and willpower to keep me true a long day of training. so I found some sites that actually say its proven to boost short term memory (intelligence) and such.

now I ordered a bottle of Creatine powder and its standing next to me, I'm still doubting to take it, mainly because nobody knows the long term side affects of taking it for yeas and years (I think), and also when you take Creatine for like 4 months you MUST balance it with 4 months "without" Creatine.
Will this mean I will juggle with my brain statistics every 4 months?


[PS]
off-course I already take enhancing supplements like vitamin B complex, Omega's, eccetera.
amphetamines or caffeine seem to destructive and/or radical from my perspective.

sry, if my grammar is too foreign

[Sebastian]

For normal doses of 5-6g of Creatine per day, cycling is not really required. Especially for mental/neurological benefits.

[shaggy]

I took creatine for several years with no ill effect besides packing on a bit of extra weight, mainly muscle, although I'm sure it makes fat loss more difficult - well for me anyway.

Mentally I didn't notice any improvement in focus, I just seemed to tire less as the working week rolled on. Pretty sure it helps negate some of the effects of sleep deprivation too, from personal use and confirmed in formal studies.

[jackdaniels]

Taken creatine for many years without cycling. Not noticed any effect really but still take it due to its many health benefits.

[OneScrewLoose]

No evidence, so far, against long-term creatine ingestion after decades of use. I wouldn't let that stop you. Some people cycle it, some don't. But if you do, it doesn't after be even. It would be more like 6 weeks on and 2 weeks off. If you are using it for brain power, and the effects don't fade, then don't cycle it.

[tintinet]

I've taken it for years, at fairly low doses, and still do, for muscular and brain health. I'm mostly (some occasional, incidentally encountered fish, meat) vegetarian and I"ve been practicing CR, although somewhat casually, for many years.

[khakiman]

gonna go take some now for the brain boost

[resveratrol]

I've been taking creatine for the past 10 years for both muscle support and cognitive enhancement.

Creatine is one of the safest supplements known. To my knowledge, no negative health effects have ever been found after extensive research.

I think if you want to use creatine for cognitive enhancement, it's best to keep in mind that its effects will work slowly. If you pop a few creatine pills the night before a the final exam, don't expect it to make a difference. It's not going to give you a sudden brain boost or a rush of adrenaline; its effects will show up gradually, over time, and partly as a result of enhancing the effects of your exercise routine.

[BlueWay]

I'm a vegetarian and I know I should be taking creatine. I'm not a body builder and I couldn't care less about muscle growth. I get plenty of exercise walking miles every day, rain or shine. I'm tall and thin and would like to stay that way. I would take creatine to replace what my brain/body is missing from meat and for cognitive enhancement. I also have OCD and I've read in multiple sources that creatine and OCD don't mix. I realize brain/body chemistry is different in everyone but do you think taking just 5g daily of creatine monohydrate in water would cause significant negative impact on OCD? I guess I could experiment but does anyone have relevant experience they can share? Thanks in advance.

[niner]

I don't know how creatine would affect OCD, but it made my hair fall out. That's a known side effect. It raises DHT. Here's a pertinent post/abstract.

Edited by niner, 25 June 2012 - 02:43 AM.

[nowayout]

I don't know how creatine would affect OCD, but it made my hair fall out. That's a known side effect. It raises DHT. Here's a pertinent post/abstract.

Small study, just ten people on creatine, not replicated AFAIK. Probably not worth paying much attention to. Also suspicious is that their hypothesis was probably introduced post hoc, since I doubt there is any known physiological mechanism that would make one suspect an effect on DHT a priori.

People naturally have cycles of hair growth and hair falling out more. That means that there will probably be lots of anecdotal accounts that are based on coincidence and don't mean anything.

Edited by viveutvivas, 25 June 2012 - 05:00 PM.

[nowayout]

Creatine reduced accumulation of lipofuscin and increased life span in mice.

http://www.neurobiol...0111-X/abstract

[niner]

I don't know how creatine would affect OCD, but it made my hair fall out. That's a known side effect. It raises DHT. Here's a pertinent post/abstract.

Small study, just ten people on creatine, not replicated AFAIK. Probably not worth paying much attention to. Also suspicious is that their hypothesis was probably introduced post hoc, since I doubt there is any known physiological mechanism that would make one suspect an effect on DHT a priori.

People naturally have cycles of hair growth and hair falling out more. That means that there will probably be lots of anecdotal accounts that are based on coincidence and don't mean anything.

IIRC, the results were statistically significant. We don't just ignore stuff that doesn't agree with our hypotheses. I haven't looked to see if it was replicated, but not replicated doesn't mean repudiated. It means no one tried. I don't see how a 'suspicion' that their hypothesis was post hoc, without any evidence to that effect, can be used to criticize it. I know people have cycles of hair growth, but what I saw was like nothing I'd ever seen in the past or since. I think the effect was real, and an awful lot of other people have had the same experience. A lot of people seem to reject any negative news about supplements they like.

[nowayout]

I don't know how creatine would affect OCD, but it made my hair fall out. That's a known side effect. It raises DHT. Here's a pertinent post/abstract.

Small study, just ten people on creatine, not replicated AFAIK. Probably not worth paying much attention to.

IIRC, the results were statistically significant. We don't just ignore stuff that doesn't agree with our hypotheses. same experience. A lot of people seem to reject any negative news about supplements they like.

I read the study. What is suspicious to me is that the creatine group started off with an average baseline DHT about 25% lower than the placebo group. That is hard to reconcile with the fact that this was a crossover study (in other words, the placebo group were the same people as the creatine group.)

Furthermore, in the placebo group, DHT fell by 20% after three weeks. This also seems hard to credit, given that it is an average over 20 people.

Another way of looking at the data: The placebo group at baseline has DHT at 1.26 +- 0.52 nmol/L, while the creatine group after 21 days supplementation had DHT at 1.38 +- 0.45 nmol/L. Given the error bars, these results are basically identical. Since, again, in a crossover study the placebo group and the supplementation group are the same people, I'd say an equally valid conclusion would be that creatine doesn't raise DHT.

Also, they took blood samples in the late afternoon. This is problematic, since the clinical standard for male hormone testing is to use rested early morning samples, since T and DHT have large diurnal variations that depend strongly on what activities have been engaged in during the day.

I hate to tear into this study, given that it is from my home country, but really, it is not a good study to base a decision on whether or not to take creatine.

Edited by viveutvivas, 25 June 2012 - 09:19 PM.

[kevinseven11]

Add baking soda to your creatine to enhance absorption and save loads of money!

[SocietyOfMind]

I could never seem to escape from creatine induced diarrhea, no matter how much water I drank. Ester creatine made no difference. I wasn't taking huge doses, either.

I eventually gave up on it as a stupid idea for my physiology, although I would like to know why that was the case.

[nupi]

Bad creatine? Never had the issue with Jarrow's Creapure creatine...

[Hebbeh]

I could never seem to escape from creatine induced diarrhea, no matter how much water I drank. Ester creatine made no difference. I wasn't taking huge doses, either.

I eventually gave up on it as a stupid idea for my physiology, although I would like to know why that was the case.

Did you try taking it with food or mixed into a protein shake? How big were your doses? It is effective even in smaller doses of a gram or 2. Did you try sublingual? Put a couple grams under your tongue and let it dissolve in your mouth for 5 minutes...I used to do that but now just toss it in a protein shake. The sublingual will bypass the GI tract.

[health_nutty]

I take a low dose every day for the nootropic effect.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2

[zorba990]

I could never seem to escape from creatine induced diarrhea, no matter how much water I drank. Ester creatine made no difference. I wasn't taking huge doses, either.

I eventually gave up on it as a stupid idea for my physiology, although I would like to know why that was the case.

Me as well. I did get results from a creatine phosphate product for a while (yes it is absorbable despite what is said about it, and it dissolved easily it water) but the company that made it decided to abandon it for creatine Glycerol phosphate and added lots of potassium which I don't react well to. Monohydrate doesn't absorb for me, and I've tried many other types. So if I ever find another source for reasonably priced Creatine Phosphate (the kind found in meat), I'll probably try it again.

[nowayout]

Monohydrate doesn't absorb for me, ...

How do you know this, unless you are doing blood tests?

[zorba990]

Monohydrate doesn't absorb for me, ...

How do you know this, unless you are doing blood tests?

OK, it's possible some of it might absorb. But a sure heck of a lot of it blows out the back of me in short order after taking it even in doses as low as < 1gram.

[Logan]

I like the feeling creatine gives my muscles. And, I definitely notice the benefits with physical performance. The mental performance benefits are not so noticeable, though I am sure they are there, just very subtle. There is good evidence creatine helps to boost testosterone is some way. I need to get back on that shit.

[Solipsis]

Monohydrate microcrystalline creatine does not dissolve in water for me, but I do get effect from it. Maybe you are confusing these two and drawing conclusions too quickly?

After researching creatine it sounds relatively safe to me and I have no trouble cycling it because every now and then I become a bit less committed. I use caseine and whey, and try to gain weight in general with carbs since I am relatively skinny naturally.
Creatine does make your tissue hold a lot of water, but it's not all illusory: it allows for more repetitions in your workout sets so better increases in performance.

Personally I think a lot of body building supplements are not worth it, because it's mostly for pro's who can use the marginal differences. In other cases I just don't buy that certain products can survive digestion without just breaking down. But creatine, I like. It's noticeably helpful and doesn't feel unnatural or bad to me.

[niner]

In other cases I just don't buy that certain products can survive digestion without just breaking down.

Most small molecules don't break down during digestion. The things that will break down are biological macromolecules; proteins (enzymes), complex carbohydrates, and triglycerides. If you're taking a particular protein because you want the amino acids it contains, or you want the fatty acids in a triglyceride, then that's fine- your body is doing exactly what you want. If you want a protein to stay intact, that's a lot harder to accomplish. Of course, just because something makes it through a lot of the digestive tract doesn't mean it will get into circulation. It might have bad bioavailability, for any of a number of reasons.

[Solipsis]

Yes indeed, I should have been more clear: I think that some advertised products are misleading that contain proteins, although of course the AA makeup can be useful. When it comes to BCAA's I am skeptical that a person doing just basic training would need it... instead if you just take slowly metabolized proteins and quickly metabolized proteins so that there's enough amino acids around for recovery... I think that's a big part of what's important. Also dextrose right after a workout is a good idea IMO.

My original point was that there may be some steps in metabolism where there are essential compounds (essential amino acids, vitamins, etc) but that if I browse a body building supplement store... most things they offer are just not convincing to me as something that would make more difference than marginally unless you are a pro.

I have a background in chemistry so just a heads up that I don't really need background info. (might potentially save you some time)

Yet what does surprise me is that Noopept (yes I know, more mind nutrition than body so to speak), is a peptide that apparently survives? Am I understanding correctly this is not just a basic oligopeptide but it's chained rather like an ester (still.... blood plasma esterases) - so not entirely sure what protects it.

[andreinikolov]

it is strange for me that no one is feeling what i do from creatine : a strong effect on working memory and short-term memory and pretty long lasting mental endurance. the bad side is that it makes me a little unable to feel and decreases the attention to outside environment, so it is not too good if you are not a scientist. also, every form of creatine, except monohydrate does actually take effect in an hour without need for accumulation.

[Jerramy]

For me, Creatine always ruins my digestion. Then my kidneys hurt.

Everyone else seems to think its the best thing in the world, and claim that its perfectly safe to use in huge doses. But for me, any dose isn't worth the hit to my disgestion (it's like it wipes out all my digestive enzymes).
For now, I'm skipping it, and instead using beta-Alanine, BCAA, and Glutamine to build muscle.

[fntms]

For me, Creatine always ruins my digestion. Then my kidneys hurt.

The only type of creatine (I tried many) that I can digest OK is Kre Alkalyn...effects seem consistent with what creatine is supposed to do (more water in your muscles and more energy, some extra brain energy and maybe slight memory enhancement).

[8bitmore]

For me, Creatine always ruins my digestion. Then my kidneys hurt.

Everyone else seems to think its the best thing in the world, and claim that its perfectly safe to use in huge doses. But for me, any dose isn't worth the hit to my disgestion (it's like it wipes out all my digestive enzymes).
For now, I'm skipping it, and instead using beta-Alanine, BCAA, and Glutamine to build muscle.

Just out of interest which type of Creatine were you taking that made your kidneys hurt & ruined your digestion? I know from experience that taking Creatine Monohydrate works very well for me but ONLY if I dissolve it 100% in warm/hot water. Before I found this method I would take it for about 2-3 days cycles and my digestion was shot every time.