43 replies to this topic

[Luna]

but probably just gonna like everyone else

[brokenportal]

Did you participate in your team this month? The teams are designed to steadily grow from very small to the point where we inform 200 million people. If we cant get people to do the small things then we probably can expect theyll never do the big things and so then in that case we probably will all die. Go and show some leadership and do the small things though and youll help inspire more to do so as well and help us move toward that 200 million.

[shadowhawk]

but probably just gonna like everyone else

I don't want you to die either. I don't want to die and have never meet a happy person who does.

[Reno]

I know that by living in the middle east this may seem like a stupid question, but have you been close to death? Is there some experience in particular which makes you feel this way?

Personally, I started thinking about my mortality when I started to have health problems. It does help to talk about such things. It beats having to deal with it all by yourself.

[bacopa]

Oh Luna don't be such a silly! Besides Leon Kass wants us all to die Think about happy things and it won't be so bad!

(obviously joking cause I fear it as bad as you )

but you're like so damn young! Your chances of living longer are considerably great...seriously forget the death anxiety and live each moment well and revel in your biological health, youth and take solace in the fact that you don't have to worry about some of the diseases that even I at 34 have to start thinking about.

Edited by dfowler, 04 August 2010 - 12:28 AM.

[MoodyBlue]

I think that the fear of death is the fear of the unknown. In our lives we have both pleasant and unpleasant experiences as well as observing others go through the same. Since, despite our beliefs, we don't know with absolute certainty what lies after the end of life, I believe it is our apprehension about anything bad or unpleasant which we might have to endure in an afterlife, if there is one. If we simply cease to exist, then there would be no reason to fear since there would not be anyone to experience any unpleasantries. I have speculated on what might lie ahead for souls (if they do exist) after they die. I can't conceive of the infinite spirit being cruel, but rather I can only see it as being loving. For souls which qualify for eternal life with eternal bliss, they would be provided that. For souls which are genuinely malicious (an enigmatic phenomenon from the perspective of a loving creator), perhaps there is a hell. Yet, that is hard for me to grasp. If seems that a loving creator would not torture the enigmatic malicious souls it somehow (probably spontaneously) created, but rather put them in a spiritual suspended animation so to speak during which they would not even know they existed, at all. I don't think that evil people choose to like evil or hating. They do so because they find it irresistable, and they did not give theirselves the nature within them which causes this. That does not mean the rest of us should have to tolerate their evil actions which are based on their evil desires. Yet, since infinity is infinitely beyond me or anyone else, it sometimes seems meaningless to speculate. Afterall, I can only speculate based on my sense of justice. I cannot do so for the infinite spirit (I prefer this to God, since most people mean an individual when they use that word. Perhaps, it is because of a desire to think of theirselves as being comparable, as well as a deep rooted tendency to identify with the corporeal body even when claiming to be thinking spiritually.) An infinite amount of the infinite spirit is unknown to me, and always will be. Even so, through time my knowledge can increase, provided that the time is granted me.

Edited by MoodyBlue, 04 August 2010 - 01:00 AM.

[Luna]

No MoodyBlue, it is not fear of the unknown, death is very well known. It is the fear of not being anymore, "being" dead. I prefer hell over not existing, I don't fear the unknown, I fear death.

Reno - Israel is not some silly desert country with people shoting each other like you might see in the news or movies, those stuff (except for a few years ago) only might happen around borders and far from most Israelis to actually be affected in their daily life. Only time you could say Israel was in a bad state was when a lot of buses exploded some years ago.

Anyways, I was like this before, I was like this since I remember myself and I don't think it's wrong to want to live and never to die.

dforlwer - years go by fast :/

Edited by Luna, 04 August 2010 - 02:13 AM.

[bacopa]

No MoodyBlue, it is not fear of the unknown, death is very well known. It is the fear of not being anymore, "being" dead. I prefer hell over not existing, I don't fear the unknown, I fear death.

Reno - Israel is not some silly desert country with people shoting each other like you might see in the news or movies, those stuff (except for a few years ago) only might happen around borders and far from most Israelis to actually be affected in their daily life. Only time you could say Israel was in a bad state was when a lot of buses exploded some years ago.

Anyways, I was like this before, I was like this since I remember myself and I don't think it's wrong to want to live and never to die.

dforlwer - years go by fast :/

I've learned to appreciate GREATLY those years, it sounds silly, but you can really get utility from thinking I'm young now, I'm feeling well and so on...

[MoodyBlue]

Alan Watts said that it was "Camus", I believe, who said that the only serious question in philosophy is whether or not to commit suicide. Obviously, when life is enjoyable one wants it to go on endlessly. When the degree of difficulty becomes unbearable and hope for escape from suffering fades away, some of us consider the question and, of course, some carry it out. With optimism that all problems can eventually be solved the willingness to go on in a world with many imperfections can endure and survive. I think, Luna, that there is a distinct difference between desiring to live forever and fearing death. You can want to live forever without fearing death. If you believe that you won't exist at all after you die, then there would be no "you" after you die to miss not having a life. It depends so much on your identity of who you think that you are. If you are just the energy of the universe temporarily in the form of "you", then you didn't exist forever, existed a little while, and then the form vanishes forever when you die. If that's the case then the real "you" is the universe pretending to be you, me, a rock, a star, or any other form which has ever or will ever exist. The Hindu Myth is that the world is exactly that. It is perceived as the one infinite self pretending to be all of the different forms there are in a fantastic drama. I don't see things the same way exactly as Alan Watts, but for some interesting insights on identity read this: http://taoofphilosop...om/chapteri.htm. If your library system has any of his works, check out his other works in his "Love of Wisdom" library. Some are in ebook form. He is a sooth sayer of sorts.

Edited by MoodyBlue, 04 August 2010 - 02:43 AM.

[bacopa]

I think Luna, as I, doesn't like the idea of "no you," and that is the crux of the problem. Sure we didn't exist for God knows how many years and of course we couldn't complain about that, but having the gift of life means that we don't want it to ever end, even in extreme states of misery, being alive equals some hope in getting to a better state of mind etc.

I get annoyed when people, and not saying you are, use this argument that being dead is just like not being born. The point is if you believe, as I do, that death = oblivion then that is the worst thing possible!

[Luna]

This is the difference between us MoodyBlue - when you think that if you don't exist it might be a comfort for there will be no more suffering, I don't.

I want to exist, I know that if I stop then "I wouldn't care" but that is because I won't be able to be if I do, and that I don't want.

You can want to live forever and fear death, stop with all the spiritual stuff because I don't believe in it and stopping my existence worries me and should worry everyone. And trust me, my life are far from perfect or all that pleasurable to say that "it's just because it's good"

[Luna]

I also don't care for what people have to say to help people accept death, soothsayers are for idiots who are cheated to believe something wrong.

[Reno]

Reno - Israel is not some silly desert country with people shoting each other like you might see in the news or movies, those stuff (except for a few years ago) only might happen around borders and far from most Israelis to actually be affected in their daily life. Only time you could say Israel was in a bad state was when a lot of buses exploded some years ago.

Anyways, I was like this before, I was like this since I remember myself and I don't think it's wrong to want to live and never to die.

Excuse me.... I didn't think I was saying it was. I was thinking about the rocket attacks I see ripping up homes every other day on CNN.

[bacopa]

I've always liked the way you think Luna! I hate the spiritual nonsense too, it's just an obvious cover for what the crux of the REAL problem is, which is we live such miserably short lives, and until people stop rationalizing it, and face it head on, we will continue to live such miserable short lives, often brutal, and this is where abolitionism of human suffering should come in!

So instead of "comfort food" let's work on the problem. Luna, if you haven't already, why don't you take action and join one of imminsts teams, or work with Aubrey and volunteer for SENS, or Methuselah Foundation.

But I was serious when I said, say to yourself everyday, hey I'm still young for now, and appreciate it! I do it at 34 and it works somewhat. Also celebrate whenever you can by going out for coffee or beer, ok you don't drink alcohol, which is cool, but you get the idea.

Also work on your physical health by eating well, exercising, and taking the right supplements. Some of us here worship our health like it's a God. You can trick your mind into thinking you will survive, and you just might get lucky in the "long run!"

Edited by dfowler, 04 August 2010 - 06:19 AM.

[Luna]

yeah.. just that I doubt that we will survive anyways :/ uff HATE THIS.

and I don't drink coffee nah but going out can be fun, just that I am stuck at nowhere with no-one so I can't do it even alone (which doesn't sound that exciting anyways)

[bacopa]

yeah.. just that I doubt that we will survive anyways :/ uff HATE THIS.

and I don't drink coffee nah but going out can be fun, just that I am stuck at nowhere with no-one so I can't do it even alone (which doesn't sound that exciting anyways)

Well it's tough at your age, people in their college years can be so damn fickle and clique. I've noticed in one's 30's this is less so, in that I can be like "hey man/girl let's do something tonight" But when I was like 20 kids, as they were in my opinion were not as nice and open. It's hard to explain.

Also conversation sucked in those formative years. Now I can talk my ass off about anything I want and most people will try to listen

[MoodyBlue]

I hope I haven't misled anyone by bringing in a "spiritual" perspective into this conversation. I certainly do perceive the way in which Western Theology is designed to be a stick and carrot device to motivate the masses into enduring lives of hardship and accepting their plight as "God's will". The stick and carrot method here is both positive motivation with promises of eternal life in heaven as well as negative motivation with warnings of everlasting damnation for those who do not conform to God's will, which of course the church, synagogue, or mosque leaders conveniently hand down to you, for as the leaders theirselves say God only communicates to them. Hindu mythology leaves a lot to be desired because it claims its all an endless cycle of althernating periods of heaven and hell. Even Einstein himself, as great of a scientific mind as he had, was not an atheist in it's true meaning. He claimed that religion without science is false religion, and science without religion is dead science. He was not one who paid much attention to organized religion, but he was none the less spiritual. With the depth of his insight into the order which does exist in the structure and forces and various forms of energy, he could not accept the perception that all of this is just an accident resulting from an infinite amount of blind stupid energy and due to mathematical chance it was inevitable that it accidentally arrive at this pattern of order at some point of time within its eternal (beginningless and endless time) existence. On top of that the hard atheist can't even begin to explain the fluke of consciousness and intelligence. For even if by mathematical chance a bunch of absolutely stupid energy arrived at a state of consistent patterned behavior, that still doesn't explain there somehow evolving a discerning consciousness which can perceive that order and can distinguish it from chaotic behavior. To claim that the universe is intelligent is already to be spiritual (Alan Watts said its synonymous with metaphysical), for either the universe or the energy it is made of is and always has been absolutely stupid, or intelligence has always existed.

Althought Alan Watts was a priest of the Anglican Church, he became very much an iconoclast in that he felt it was much more dangerous to worship a mental image (concept) of God than to worship a footstool. Perhaps I should have said he is more like a psychologist than a sooth sayer. I noticed that the link I provided above fails to take you to that site. The URL is "taoofphilosophy.webs.com". So, that you don't assume that you're just going to get more run of the mill spiritual stuff from him here is a paragraph from the site:

Instead, it has become fashionable, and it is nothing more than a fashion, to believe that the universe is dumb and stupid, and that intelligence, values, love, and fine feelings reside only within the bag of the human epidermis, and beyond that it is simply a kind of a chaotic, stupid interaction of blind forces. For example, courtesy of Dr. Freud, we have the idea that biological life is based on something called "libido," which was a very loaded word. This blind, ruthless, uncomprehending lust is seen as the foundation of the human unconscious, and to thinkers of the nineteenth century like Hegel, Darwin, and T.H. Huxley, there was similarly the notion that at the root of being is an energy, and this energy is blind. This energy is just energy, and it is utterly and totally stupid, and our intelligence is an unfortunate accident. By some weird freak of evolution we came to be these feeling and rational beings, at least more or less rational, but all this is a ghastly mistake because we are here in a universe that has nothing in common with us. It does not share our feelings, has no real interest in us, and we are just a sort of cosmic fluke. Therefore, the only hope for mankind is to beat this irrational universe into submission, to conquer it and master it. Of course all this is perfectly idiotic. If you think that the idea of the universe has been the creation of a benevolent old gentleman, you soon realize He is not so benevolent after all, and He takes an attitude of "this is going to hurt me more than it is going to hurt you." You can have that idea on the one hand, and if that becomes uncomfortable you can exchange it for its opposite idea that the ultimate reality does not have any intelligence at all, and at least that would get rid of the old bogey in the sky in exchange for a picture of the world that is completely stupid.

Perhaps this link to the site will work: http://taoofphilosophy.webs.com/

Edited by MoodyBlue, 05 August 2010 - 12:16 AM.

[Elus]

There is no god. There is nothing after death. There is only this. THIS IS IT.

Would you like an illustration of just how afraid I am of death? I've become distrustful of myself and of the society/world because I fear oblivion to such an extent. My paranoia has made me a freak.

-I contemplate wearing light body armor under my normal clothes because I'm afraid that I'll shot by some random passing stranger or criminal.
-I contemplate investing in an armored car for the same reasons
-I practice mild calorie restriction, which I expect will soon become full-blown calorie restriction
-I am making plans to have my genome sequenced so I can predict what diseases I'll get
-Saving money, convincing parents to start cryogenics payments
-I am formulating a list of supplements that I'll take to help keep my mind and body sharp
-I exercise regularly and don't go out much in order to prevent potential accidents, sunlight damage to my skin.
-Scenarios go through my head about killer asteroids, yellowstone park exploding, superflares roasting us alive, and how I should probably invest in a secure bunker/home that will become a sanctuary for me to run to in case any of these things should happen. Load up on canned food, water, living supplies, stored electricity... I'm telling you, it's like stuff from an apocalypse movie.
-I'm extremely cautious in everything I do! I don't take many chances where my life might be in danger.
-I eat organic foods, stay away from most sugars, don't eat much meat...
-Don't drink alcohol or smoke
-I plan on getting full body MRI's as frequently as possible to maximize my chance of catching cancer and other diseases in their early stages when treatment is considered viable. [Click here on more info on full body MRI]
-I will pay frequent visits to the doctor and get frequent checkups to ensure that my health is optimal.


And the list goes on. But why go through all this trouble? Because I value life and I see the future as full of infinite possibilities.

If I can just survive long enough to make it to the next bridge, I will begin seeking the path of true immortality. Of true indestructibility.

Now, some of you may say, "Elus, don't be like that. Don't waste your time with all these paranoid habits." To them I say, I am only doing this for a brief time in what I believe will be the history of my existence. Even if I have to live this way for 100 years, being extremely cautious, paranoid about my survival and health, imagine the potential payoff. A chance at immortality for the mere inconveniences of a day to day human life. Not many people are tenacious enough to go through what I am prepared to go through, but then again I wish to be one of the lucky. One of the ones who get to walk amongst the survivors of a once primitive and cruel civilization. To ascend to the status of a super being, and guide the development of other civilizations throughout our universe (Which I hope there are)

I want to one day be able to forge my own destiny. To know the universe for what it truly is.

Edited by Elus Efelier, 05 August 2010 - 02:00 AM.

[bacopa]

hehe that's great man, or maybe not, but you're living like a true immortalist. I've already screwed up my health due to my smoking couple of years when nothing could help me...literally nothing. But consider yourself, so far, lucky in that you haven't faced severe health problems mental or physical I imagine.

I guess this ultra cautiousness could lead into a paranoid state of being extreme enough to warrant it more of a hindrance then a help, and most people if they read what you just wrote would think you're a little mad. But most of us here totally get what you're about.

I just wish I wasn't so unlucky in getting mentally unwell at a crucial stage of my life. I'm hoping I can reverse it, and survive long enough to live as long as I can, of course.

[Elus]

hehe that's great man, or maybe not, but you're living like a true immortalist. I've already screwed up my health due to my smoking couple of years when nothing could help me...literally nothing. But consider yourself, so far, lucky in that you haven't faced severe health problems mental or physical I imagine.

I guess this ultra cautiousness could lead into a paranoid state of being extreme enough to warrant it more of a hindrance then a help, and most people if they read what you just wrote would think you're a little mad. But most of us here totally get what you're about.

I just wish I wasn't so unlucky in getting mentally unwell at a crucial stage of my life. I'm hoping I can reverse it, and survive long enough to live as long as I can, of course.

Thank you for being so supportive. I think with enough willpower and hard work, you can ascend to incredible heights. And yes, I will try to not let my paranoia become a total hindrance!

Also, you seem to type and reply quite lucidly, so maybe you're not that mentally unwell. I'm sure you can reverse it. It's all in your head, after all .

Best,
E.

[bacopa]

hehe that's great man, or maybe not, but you're living like a true immortalist. I've already screwed up my health due to my smoking couple of years when nothing could help me...literally nothing. But consider yourself, so far, lucky in that you haven't faced severe health problems mental or physical I imagine.

I guess this ultra cautiousness could lead into a paranoid state of being extreme enough to warrant it more of a hindrance then a help, and most people if they read what you just wrote would think you're a little mad. But most of us here totally get what you're about.

I just wish I wasn't so unlucky in getting mentally unwell at a crucial stage of my life. I'm hoping I can reverse it, and survive long enough to live as long as I can, of course.

Thank you for being so supportive. I think with enough willpower and hard work, you can ascend to incredible heights. And yes, I will try to not let my paranoia become a total hindrance!

Also, you seem to type and reply quite lucidly, so maybe you're not that mentally unwell. I'm sure you can reverse it. It's all in your head, after all .

Best,
E.

Thanks man, I try not using imminst as a therapy for what I'm going through, but instead as a resource for supplements and med ideas that many are so knowledgeable about. Oh thanks for saying I sound lucid, it's the details like figuring out what certain drugs inhibit, antagonize, and any sort of in depth detailed science stuff I still struggle with. I imagine if I had a better memory I could get a lot further. All in all most people know my story here and how I'm trying like you to do the seemingly impossible.

[Reno]

Once you've had a close call you realize how life can come and go in a blink of an eye. That's why it's so pointless to worry about it. Don't fear the reaper. As long as your in no immediate danger from health problems, or physical violence then there is no use worrying about it. The only time I seriously stressed over dying like you are now was when I had to have my aortic heart valve replaced three years ago. At that time the doctor told me flat out if you don't get this done in a year your as good as dead.

So sue me, I use toothpaste with fluoride. I might not live to 80, but if I do go, I'll go with my pearly white smile and a full stomach of tasty chewed food. Fuck the supplements, the herbal remedies, and all the health advice. In the long run your going to lose more time due to stress then you are from enjoying what life has to offer.

Edited by Reno, 05 August 2010 - 04:03 AM.

[bacopa]

Once you've had a close call you realize how life can come and go in a blink of an eye. That's why it's so pointless to worry about it. Don't fear the reaper. As long as your in no immediate danger from health problems, or physical violence then there is no use worrying about it. The only time I seriously stressed over dying like you are now was when I had to have my aortic heart valve replaced three years ago. At that time the doctor told me flat out if you don't get this done in a year your as good as dead.

So sue me, I use toothpaste with fluoride. I might not live to 80, but if I do go, I'll go with my pearly white smile and a full stomach of tasty chewed food. Fuck the supplements, the herbal remedies, and all the health advice. In the long run your going to lose more time due to stress then you are from enjoying what life has to offer.

you make an interesting argument, but unfortunately there is a big difference from using flouride toothpaste vs. smoking 2 packs a day.

Unfortunately humans tend to go to extremes as we are pleasure seekers. I would agree that some here, including me at times, also go to extremes trying not to die. But just eat well, exercise, and that's all even Aubrey is asking for people to do at this point.

So sorry you had a close call with death. I've been positive so many times I would defnitely die this time. And so far I'm still alive. Maybe you came closer to death than me, but I have been in such extreme states of duress that it sure felt like I would die. So basically I know what it feels like. Ironically I had apoxia at birth when my lungs collapsed due to being born premature, and was "touch and go" for a few days. So I'm lucky to be alive at 34, and yes, I appreciate the health I seemingly have now, although with the few years of smoking who knows how damaged I really am. But did I enjoy the smoking? Up to a point, but usually it was used to calm my nerves or help alleviate terrbile lethargy, and a horrible mood state.

All in all, don't obsess over your longevity like so many do here, that I agree with.

I think if I felt good in the moment then I truly would say fuck it let's just go along for the ride. But I'm never feeling good in the moment. Interestingly enough my doc friend told me it's hard to die, in that if you have a terminal illness, it often is a real struggle with ones body fighting back, as he told me, but obviously a gun shot, or some natural disaster, we then become very expendable.

And it's sad to think that not everyone gets the best or good enough resources around the globe, medically speaking. But I tend to agree with Aubrey's thinking that progress is still progress and that saving x amount of people from age related diseases is still a tremendous benefit. But I don't necessarily agree with my doc friend, and think although a lot has to happen internally for us to die, people do drop dead from brain aneurysms, like my two of my friends, and people get many diseases even at young ages, not to mention accidents and suicides, murders etc.

I think once we are conceived at birth we are basically playing Russian roulette, and it's a sad thing, but you really have to have a positive outlook, like you saying you'll die with shiny teeth at 80, and at least you didn't worry yourself sick. I personally get real excitement from keeping myself healthy, it's my new drug, replacing the bad stuff like cigarettes and alcohol.

I'm not saying anything that profound or that hasn't been said before, I'm just bored and can't sleep.

Edited by dfowler, 05 August 2010 - 05:19 AM.

[Reno]

Unfortunately humans tend to go to extremes as we are pleasure seekers. I would agree that some here, including me at times, also go to extremes trying not to die. But just eat well, exercise, and that's all even Aubrey is asking for people to do at this point.

That's good advice.

Hehe, the toothpaste bit was an example to how some people take this body as a temple bit too far. I've heard it said that it takes 15 years to undo the damage caused from one year of smoking. I imagine though that it all depends on how far someone took their smoking habit.

I do think stress can take more time from a person's life then most of these horrible chemicals people seem to worry about. People around here seem to obsess over worrying. Oh, am I gonna die because I use this ointment or that toothpaste, or drive this car or ride the bus. Will I get shot by a stray bullet in my upscale middle class urban community? Will my nuts rot off from cancer caused from inhaling too many second hand smoke fumes at the grocery store? In all reality your gonna commit suicide via obsessive worrying over variables beyond your control.

The only reason I brought up one of my heart surgeries is to give credence to the idea that life is too short to worry about the little things. Hope for the best, expect the worst. Sure I hope I will live long enough to see immortality, but I'm gonna try and live my life under the assumption that it's not gonna happen in my lifetime.

Edited by Reno, 05 August 2010 - 05:25 AM.

[GabrielPaparella]

Elus, the price of full genome sequencing is dropping fast but it's still at $10k I think. Depending on your age, it might be worth it to save a few thousand by waiting a couple more years. That way, you'd have something left to donate towards research on whatever you are more likely to develop.

Are armored cars sold privately? I didn't know that.

Naturally, I'm of the opinion that the farthest somebody can stretch their dollar is to contribute to SENS.

Edited by GabrielPaparella, 05 August 2010 - 02:51 PM.

[Elus]

Elus, the price of full genome sequencing is dropping fast but it's still at $10k I think. Depending on your age, it might be worth it to save a few thousand by waiting a couple more years. That way, you'd have something left to donate towards research on whatever you are more likely to develop.

Are armored cars sold privately? I didn't know that.

Naturally, I'm of the opinion that the farthest somebody can stretch their dollar is to contribute to SENS.

Well, an armored car is sort of low on my list of priorities, but I have considered it as a legitimate option. I just put it there to illustrate my paranoia. In the end, it does come down to how much cash I have. I'm 18 and going through college, so such options are currently unavailable to me.

And yes, I got similar advice about 23andMe's genome service. I will wait.

Edited by Elus Efelier, 06 August 2010 - 09:20 PM.

[bacopa]

Unfortunately humans tend to go to extremes as we are pleasure seekers. I would agree that some here, including me at times, also go to extremes trying not to die. But just eat well, exercise, and that's all even Aubrey is asking for people to do at this point.

That's good advice.

Hehe, the toothpaste bit was an example to how some people take this body as a temple bit too far. I've heard it said that it takes 15 years to undo the damage caused from one year of smoking. I imagine though that it all depends on how far someone took their smoking habit.

I do think stress can take more time from a person's life then most of these horrible chemicals people seem to worry about. People around here seem to obsess over worrying. Oh, am I gonna die because I use this ointment or that toothpaste, or drive this car or ride the bus. Will I get shot by a stray bullet in my upscale middle class urban community? Will my nuts rot off from cancer caused from inhaling too many second hand smoke fumes at the grocery store? In all reality your gonna commit suicide via obsessive worrying over variables beyond your control.

The only reason I brought up one of my heart surgeries is to give credence to the idea that life is too short to worry about the little things. Hope for the best, expect the worst. Sure I hope I will live long enough to see immortality, but I'm gonna try and live my life under the assumption that it's not gonna happen in my lifetime.

Totally agree with your thinking. By the way most things i've read and heard are it takes 15 years to undo any kind of smoking from 1 to 50, but I also read although after 15 years your lungs are pink again, you still have mutated damage on a genetic level which is permanent. So I'm hoping the study on Myoinositol undoing damage as well as others like IP6, and vit D and others, protect me in the long run. But a famous study was done on doctors who smoked up until mid 30's and there was negligible death overall, or on average, or something like that. So I'm glad I quit when I did at 32.

Edited by dfowler, 06 August 2010 - 11:07 PM.

[bacopa]

Sorry I wrote that in haste. The common thinking and many doctors say this, is that supposedly no matter how long you smoke you can undo the damage in 15 years. Obviously this is not true, but if you smoked to 55 and quit and didn't get sick of a smoking related illness within the next 15 years, you have a decent shot at not dying from a smoking related illness. However the sooner you quit the better. I was referring to a longitudinal study on doctors who quit in their early to mid 30's and it came out in 2004.

Anyway, I constantly tell myself, wow, I f'ed up by smoking for those few years, but it does feel good to know others smoked longer and were ok.

But all in all, smoking if not made illegal, should be so damn expensive that no one will buy it...I'm ranting. I hate cigarettes, what a horrible addiction. But if you smoke only one year, that's literally nothing and i bet your lungs will not even need to clear up. So what you heard was incorrect.

[bacopa]

Elus, the price of full genome sequencing is dropping fast but it's still at $10k I think. Depending on your age, it might be worth it to save a few thousand by waiting a couple more years. That way, you'd have something left to donate towards research on whatever you are more likely to develop.

Are armored cars sold privately? I didn't know that.

Naturally, I'm of the opinion that the farthest somebody can stretch their dollar is to contribute to SENS.

Well, an armored car is sort of low on my list of priorities, but I have considered it as a legitimate option. I just put it there to illustrate my paranoia. In the end, it does come down to how much cash I have. I'm 18 and going through college, so such options are currently unavailable to me.

And yes, I got similar advice about 23andMe's genome service. I will wait.

Elus I signed up to meet with a genetic counselor and was considering looking into heritable cancer risks, which is what I fear mostly besides Alzheimer's. And then I said, f**k it, I will just read up on the latest diets, supplements, and pray for progress in treating cancers. My doc friend said oral cancers are very treatable and often "curable" if caught early. They are making lots of progress like the man with esophageal cancer that got a new esophagus. But not enough work is being done on metastasis I read. So I wrote to the National Cancer Institute and they gave me a prewritten long ass text on how they are doing this and that with metastasis. Let's hope things progress.

[chrwe]

Dear Luna , you know I feel the same as you do, for me it started when cancer reared its ugly head and I suddenly realized "ugh, this is going to REALLY happen...its not just a story...". I am healthy again, but after such an experience, you wonder how anyone could ever forget for an instant they are going to die, isnt it so?

Well, we can only hope and trust there is at least a chance we will benefit from life extension. And try work for it, of course.

In the meantime, we can at least find comfort in the fact that I - you even more - probably wont have to fall to Alzheimer`s and related anymore, maybe not even to cancer.

There is no comfort for death anxiety. It is a 100% rational fear and you can only try suppress it to a point that you can still enjoy life.

The only thing that helps me a little is the quote I read somewhere "It is not rational to fear the end of fear itself". While I also yell "Excuse ME, nonbeing is the worst thing ever, I WANT to be afraid", there remains the fact that, indeed, non-experience can by defnition not really be any part, any event of life, and you wont care nor hurt. The other thing is that the majority of really old people say they are "ready to go". Maybe nature does something to us. Using some hormone or whatever to lessen oldsters fear of death does make sense from an evolutionary point of view, no point in old people clinging desperately to life and consuming resources from a purely biological point of view. Don`t bash me, its just logic!

Sad comfort. Lets hope something better - meaning the success of life extension, waits for us.

Edited by chrwe, 25 August 2010 - 01:14 PM.