43 replies to this topic

[Luna]

Nope, no comfort. Don't want to die and that's it.

Nice try!

Really hope I have a very good chance but very doubt it.

[wiserd]

Nope, no comfort. Don't want to die and that's it.

Nice try!

Really hope I have a very good chance but very doubt it.

The only hope they seem to have is with things like adult stem cell research, and even that's probably just a delay. But without some way to eliminate senescence in adults, death seems inevitable. Ewald makes a good argument that infectious diseases are responsible for a lot of human ills. Mortality may be included in that. Creatures that aren't killed by disease or cancer are effectively immortal.

I don't claim to know what comes after death. I don't even know what consciousness is, beyond just a chemical reaction. But if I didn't see consciousness as more than just a chemical reaction, I don't see why I'd value it in myself or others.

[brokenportal]

There is tons of room for indefinite life extension to get here in our life times. In fact the only thing in this that there really isnt any room for is the potential that it might not happen. It would be pretty hard to make the case that indefinite life extension will probably not happen in our life times.

For one, the path forward through the science is there, its not magical or unknowable as this topic goes over: http://www.imminst.o...le/#entry409025

Then there is this point: http://www.imminst.o...e-mile-premise/

and most importantly these points that go over how fast this happens: http://www.imminst.o...our-life-times/

Indefinite life extension happens at the same rate as the world collectively goes to get it. So if say, .0004 percent of the world is on average 20% serious about getting this done then it happens at that rate, but if say, 1 billion people put this cause at the top of their list of priorities then this happens that much faster. Hence we are working on a 6 point plan to inform a mainstream number of the world with in 5 years of the activation of the plan. Again though, that is contingent upon people wanting it and keeping these things moving along. If we want it, we can have it. If we dont think we can have it, then we wont want it as much and it wont get done. Lets go there and see.

[hivemind]

Would rather die than get old. Being old is much worse than being dead.

[brokenportal]

Being old seems much worse than being dead, if you commit the Tithonus error yes.

[John Schloendorn]

Nope, no comfort. Don't want to die and that's it.

Nice try!

Really hope I have a very good chance but very doubt it.

Sounds reasonable. So you might as well try your very best to fix it. What is the plan?

[okok]

Don't :/
Eternal youth through law of attraction ^-^ !
O_o o_O

[Loot Perish]

the bible says that jesus is fighting a final battle against death, and that he wants his followers to join him in this battle and raise the dead. Will you follow the Lord Jesus and fight death? Are you signed up for cryonics, sinner?

[Rational Madman]

the bible says that jesus is fighting a final battle against death, and that he wants his followers to join him in this battle and raise the dead. Will you follow the Lord Jesus and fight death? Are you signed up for cryonics, sinner?

Wouldn't your energy be better served attending to your flock of sheep, Reverend?

[Loot Perish]

the bible says that jesus is fighting a final battle against death, and that he wants his followers to join him in this battle and raise the dead. Will you follow the Lord Jesus and fight death? Are you signed up for cryonics, sinner?

Wouldn't your energy be better served attending to your flock of sheep, Reverend?

doing that right now.

are you signed up, sinner?

[chris w]

the bible says that jesus is fighting a final battle against death, and that he wants his followers to join him in this battle and raise the dead. Will you follow the Lord Jesus and fight death? Are you signed up for cryonics, sinner?

LOL, I think I will need to question your creds, Reverend. The Bible says Jesus has already won the fight against death long time ago and grants us the gift of future ressurection, but not that he needs us to help him in anything. To stake with the heretic !

[Loot Perish]

the bible says that jesus is fighting a final battle against death, and that he wants his followers to join him in this battle and raise the dead. Will you follow the Lord Jesus and fight death? Are you signed up for cryonics, sinner?

LOL, I think I will need to question your creds, Reverend. The Bible says Jesus has already won the fight against death long time ago and grants us the gift of future ressurection, but not that he needs us to help him in anything. To stake with the heretic !

You talk big but deliver small. I talk big and deliver big. Kneel before me....




X-Message-Number: 31540

you wrote:
//////////////////////////////////
From: "Kennita (Go Cryo!)" <kennita@gocryo.org>
Subject: Re: the immortalist Bible and cryonics
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 04:02:31 -0700
References: <20090321090003.68295.qmail@rho.pair.com>

I think it's a bad idea to put cryonics in
the same bin with resurrection and immortality.
It seems disingenuous, because cryonicists
don't see themselves as dead in the same sense,
resurrection as the blissful reward in the same
sense, or immortality as necessarily eternal in
the same sense, that Christians generally mean.
To claim we do can label us as liars and
charlatans, or as dupes and victims, depending
on how charitable the particular Christian is
feeling.


My reply:


But the fact is that cryonics serves some of the same purposes for us that
religion serves for the faithful. It wards off our fear of death and allows us
to be functional. And yes, it just might make us immortal.


I am even certain that the same brain circuits are involved in cryonics and
religion. So many cryonicists discover cryonics and have a sort of epiphany--a
sort of euphoric wonder is aroused by the discovery of this wonderful endeavor.
They are "born again".


Undoubtedly, we humans are evolved to be able have this reawakening via
religion, and thus obtain a sense of belonging, a renewal of purpose, etc. This
has long provided homo sapiens with survival advantages, allowing us to go on
living, reproducing and helping our children and grandchildren to survive and
pass on their genes as well.


Religion is the natural ally of cryonics. Yes, science is the way to implement
cryonics. But religion is the way to MARKET it because cryonics is in many ways
a substitute for religion. Science based and not faith based, however.

There is no inherent contradiction between science/technology and religion

If you are an engineer building a church for a congregation, trust me, they
don't want you to use faith and spirituality to build that church. They want you
to use all the power of science and technology to build that church.


And if you preach the cryogospel, the gospel that maintains that to be a good
christian, you must be a good cryonicist and help Jesus raise the dead, then
your congregation will want a cryonics provider that uses science to get the
best possible cryopreservation.


Frankly, one of the biggest impediments to growth in cryonics is that there is a
common personal characteristic of cryonics to "remain pure and unsullied." This
sort of mindset is also prevalent in libertarians. But does it get results in
the real world?


As for the issues of hypocrisy, impurity of thought, charlatanism etc., that
might arise if religion is used to justify cryonics, I think that getting
results is the most important thing. If one were to use this idea to get rich,
that would be a different thing. But we cryonics are "pure," right? Cryo-monks,
right?

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.o...e.cgi?msg=31540




X-Message-Number: 31541
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:45:19 -0700 (PDT)

Subject: re: the immortalist Bible and cryonics


I have some more thoughts on Kennita's objections to tying cryonics to religion:


In my prior reply I addressed how cryonicists often undergo an quasi-religious
epiphany upon becoming cryonicists. And like religious converts, new cryonicists
often become evangelists, cryo-evangelists who want to spread the good word.
Just like those born again to religion.

Some cryonicists will go to great lengths to evangelize cryonics. Some even go
to festivals a thousand miles away to sit alone in a booth and tell complete
strangers about cryonics. Just like some christians are moved to go door to door
spreading the good word, or standing on street corner shouting out the word of
god.


Of course, just like those who evangelize for their religion, the fervor of
cryo-evangelists usually dims after a few years. Such is religion....


Cryonics already IS tied to religion. It IS a type of religion, one that depends
on science. We just need to admit that fact, and then we can move cryonics into
a new and prosperous realm of unprecedented growth.


But woe betide those cryo-evangelists who would dare advocate drastic changes or
new procedures for cryonics. Just as those who would advocate change in
christianity, they face strident objections from those in the congregation who
insist on purity and tradition. Why I remember one such diligent cryoevangelist
who was roundly disparaged by the online cryo-congregation for wanting to
evangelize cryonics at a festival for some frozen dead guy. "We don't want
cryonics associated with some dead guy!" they shouted. Advocating changes in a
religion threatens most of those who use that religion to keep their fear of
death at bay. See "Terror management theory."


The fact is that cryonics needs to be a broad based movement, to have a big
tent, to contain multitudes, to be "catholic" and not narrow. That is the path
to more growth and the path to political power, the power that we need to
survive the dangerous future ahead.



Now I know that I am not going to convince many or probably any of the online
cryo-congregation here. Great, they can just go on their merry little way. Cuz
the cryogospel is just not in their worldview. So is life.


But although I use the cryo congregation here as a sounding board, I am really
mostly speaking to potential cryonewbies who will be exploring the cryonet
archives in the future. And I say to them--consider become a preacher parttime
and preaching a cryogospel in a church. Because that is a path to growth and
immortality.


Well, now I am done with my cryoevangelizing and I have warmed the cockles of my
brain, or at least those associated with religion. Because I have done my
cryo-evangelism for the day, and my homo sapiens ape brain religion circuits
have been satisfied for today.

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.o...e.cgi?msg=31541

The Bible says that Elijah, Elisha, Peter, and Paul raised the dead, as well as
Jesus Christ.

THe question is whether we ourselves should raise the dead?

In the bible, Jesus told his disciples to raise the dead.

from MATTHEW 10:8
"Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. "


further, Jesus told his disciples they were to teach others to do EVERYTHING He
had commanded them -- even to the "end of the age."

FROM MATTHEW 28:18-20

18 Then Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to
Me in heaven and on earth.

19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the
name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am
with you always, even to the end of the age."

Furthermore, Jesus said believers would also do the works that he did:

from JOHN 14:12

12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he
will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My
Father."



So, we ourselves are to act as Jesus commanded his disciples. And that means
raise the dead. If you are a cryonicist, you are doing that part of what Jesus
told you to do, and you will live forever by his side when the resurrection
comes. A resurrection that we humans will carry out, acting in his name.
Cryopreserving humans is a good start in making the resurrection happen!

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.o...e.cgi?msg=31544

[Rational Madman]

the bible says that jesus is fighting a final battle against death, and that he wants his followers to join him in this battle and raise the dead. Will you follow the Lord Jesus and fight death? Are you signed up for cryonics, sinner?

LOL, I think I will need to question your creds, Reverend. The Bible says Jesus has already won the fight against death long time ago and grants us the gift of future ressurection, but not that he needs us to help him in anything. To stake with the heretic !

You talk big but deliver small. I talk big and deliver big. Kneel before me....




X-Message-Number: 31540

you wrote:
//////////////////////////////////
From: "Kennita (Go Cryo!)" <kennita@gocryo.org>
Subject: Re: the immortalist Bible and cryonics
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 04:02:31 -0700
References: <20090321090003.68295.qmail@rho.pair.com>

I think it's a bad idea to put cryonics in
the same bin with resurrection and immortality.
It seems disingenuous, because cryonicists
don't see themselves as dead in the same sense,
resurrection as the blissful reward in the same
sense, or immortality as necessarily eternal in
the same sense, that Christians generally mean.
To claim we do can label us as liars and
charlatans, or as dupes and victims, depending
on how charitable the particular Christian is
feeling.


My reply:


But the fact is that cryonics serves some of the same purposes for us that
religion serves for the faithful. It wards off our fear of death and allows us
to be functional. And yes, it just might make us immortal.


I am even certain that the same brain circuits are involved in cryonics and
religion. So many cryonicists discover cryonics and have a sort of epiphany--a
sort of euphoric wonder is aroused by the discovery of this wonderful endeavor.
They are "born again".


Undoubtedly, we humans are evolved to be able have this reawakening via
religion, and thus obtain a sense of belonging, a renewal of purpose, etc. This
has long provided homo sapiens with survival advantages, allowing us to go on
living, reproducing and helping our children and grandchildren to survive and
pass on their genes as well.


Religion is the natural ally of cryonics. Yes, science is the way to implement
cryonics. But religion is the way to MARKET it because cryonics is in many ways
a substitute for religion. Science based and not faith based, however.

There is no inherent contradiction between science/technology and religion

If you are an engineer building a church for a congregation, trust me, they
don't want you to use faith and spirituality to build that church. They want you
to use all the power of science and technology to build that church.


And if you preach the cryogospel, the gospel that maintains that to be a good
christian, you must be a good cryonicist and help Jesus raise the dead, then
your congregation will want a cryonics provider that uses science to get the
best possible cryopreservation.


Frankly, one of the biggest impediments to growth in cryonics is that there is a
common personal characteristic of cryonics to "remain pure and unsullied." This
sort of mindset is also prevalent in libertarians. But does it get results in
the real world?


As for the issues of hypocrisy, impurity of thought, charlatanism etc., that
might arise if religion is used to justify cryonics, I think that getting
results is the most important thing. If one were to use this idea to get rich,
that would be a different thing. But we cryonics are "pure," right? Cryo-monks,
right?

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.o...e.cgi?msg=31540




X-Message-Number: 31541
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:45:19 -0700 (PDT)

Subject: re: the immortalist Bible and cryonics


I have some more thoughts on Kennita's objections to tying cryonics to religion:


In my prior reply I addressed how cryonicists often undergo an quasi-religious
epiphany upon becoming cryonicists. And like religious converts, new cryonicists
often become evangelists, cryo-evangelists who want to spread the good word.
Just like those born again to religion.

Some cryonicists will go to great lengths to evangelize cryonics. Some even go
to festivals a thousand miles away to sit alone in a booth and tell complete
strangers about cryonics. Just like some christians are moved to go door to door
spreading the good word, or standing on street corner shouting out the word of
god.


Of course, just like those who evangelize for their religion, the fervor of
cryo-evangelists usually dims after a few years. Such is religion....


Cryonics already IS tied to religion. It IS a type of religion, one that depends
on science. We just need to admit that fact, and then we can move cryonics into
a new and prosperous realm of unprecedented growth.


But woe betide those cryo-evangelists who would dare advocate drastic changes or
new procedures for cryonics. Just as those who would advocate change in
christianity, they face strident objections from those in the congregation who
insist on purity and tradition. Why I remember one such diligent cryoevangelist
who was roundly disparaged by the online cryo-congregation for wanting to
evangelize cryonics at a festival for some frozen dead guy. "We don't want
cryonics associated with some dead guy!" they shouted. Advocating changes in a
religion threatens most of those who use that religion to keep their fear of
death at bay. See "Terror management theory."


The fact is that cryonics needs to be a broad based movement, to have a big
tent, to contain multitudes, to be "catholic" and not narrow. That is the path
to more growth and the path to political power, the power that we need to
survive the dangerous future ahead.



Now I know that I am not going to convince many or probably any of the online
cryo-congregation here. Great, they can just go on their merry little way. Cuz
the cryogospel is just not in their worldview. So is life.


But although I use the cryo congregation here as a sounding board, I am really
mostly speaking to potential cryonewbies who will be exploring the cryonet
archives in the future. And I say to them--consider become a preacher parttime
and preaching a cryogospel in a church. Because that is a path to growth and
immortality.


Well, now I am done with my cryoevangelizing and I have warmed the cockles of my
brain, or at least those associated with religion. Because I have done my
cryo-evangelism for the day, and my homo sapiens ape brain religion circuits
have been satisfied for today.

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.o...e.cgi?msg=31541

The Bible says that Elijah, Elisha, Peter, and Paul raised the dead, as well as
Jesus Christ.

THe question is whether we ourselves should raise the dead?

In the bible, Jesus told his disciples to raise the dead.

from MATTHEW 10:8
"Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. "


further, Jesus told his disciples they were to teach others to do EVERYTHING He
had commanded them -- even to the "end of the age."

FROM MATTHEW 28:18-20

18 Then Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to
Me in heaven and on earth.

19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the
name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am
with you always, even to the end of the age."

Furthermore, Jesus said believers would also do the works that he did:

from JOHN 14:12

12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he
will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My
Father."



So, we ourselves are to act as Jesus commanded his disciples. And that means
raise the dead. If you are a cryonicist, you are doing that part of what Jesus
told you to do, and you will live forever by his side when the resurrection
comes. A resurrection that we humans will carry out, acting in his name.
Cryopreserving humans is a good start in making the resurrection happen!

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.o...e.cgi?msg=31544

Would you seriously grow up, and find some other mechanism for validating your insecure beliefs?

Edited by Rol82, 02 February 2011 - 05:56 PM.

[MentalParadox]

*facepalm*

On topic: I had some strange beliefs once. They weren't clearly defined, but I "believed" or "wanted to believe" in "something". Something "more" than we can see, something that would obviously still be with me after I died. But a few years ago I lost that, apparantly. Good thing, too. Now, I feel like I know death. I understand it. Maybe the fact that I'm... a bit "different" in some ways helped me at that, who knows. Either way, my philosophy is this: All I know, is that I exist. The "I", my consciousness. All I want, is for my consciousness to never cease existing.
Dead simple, no? I know the world happily keeps on spinning after I die, and my kids will live on and have more kids and blabla. But I don't want to live life on my DNA's terms. I am not interested in reproduction, because that doesn't help my own survival in the slightest. So for me, all roads lead to ILE.