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Purity Buyers Club


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24 replies to this topic

#1 nootropi

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Posted 01 October 2004 - 01:19 AM


Hello everybody,

I really do not have very much time to debate my usual favorite topics, but what I can do is I take a moment here and ask for you to consider donating $10 per month to a paypal account whose contents will be liquidated monthly to pay for HPLC testing of smi2le's products.

Those who donate to this fund will recieve store credit at smi2le's store equal to their donations. I will be pleased to show the results of these tests here and at a devoted product testing website. Consumer oriented and run by a wacko purity freak such as myself.

This is, of course, subject to his approval.

What do you guys think?

I will try to look at this post daily.

#2 bdnf

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Posted 01 October 2004 - 01:30 AM

Great idea. Count me in.

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#3 nootropi

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Posted 01 October 2004 - 01:37 AM

Count me in.


Thank you for your support.

You see, the real issue with a lot of nootropics that we take is that they come from China.

When Mike gets a bin of 10-20 kilos of a new supplement, I could send in a sample for an HPLC assay. After I get the results, I would immediately upload the results here.

I would like to be able to shield those who want to remain anonymous.

I could make it so there is no commitment to the club; so, in other words nobody will be billed more than they would want to.

I will do this as a public service for our community; and Mike himself, (besides getting a lot of publicity) will be doing a service for us too.

I have to go.

Take care.

#4 zencatholic

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Posted 01 October 2004 - 02:33 PM

Hi Adam,

You idea has merit. I would consider joining such a "club".

Peace be with you,
AMDG

Zen Catholic

#5 ejdavis1

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Posted 01 October 2004 - 05:52 PM

Count me in.

I've privately relayed some additional ideas for management and checks and balances to nootropi.

#6 nootropi

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Posted 02 October 2004 - 01:21 AM

ejdavis1 and lynx both relayed some of their concerns to me privately; here is my reply:

I would love to have the imminst involved. I don't think they would be interested though.

When we buy powders from Rizzer, we could easily compare the appearances for discrepancies; frankly, I don't think Rizzer has it up his sleeves to send any of us a special sample. However, just for fun, I will proudly photograph the sample for everybodys comparing needs. Rizzer will benefit because here we are, testing his stuff that anybody on the web can buy just as easily; and any person on the web with $10 can get involved and cash in for credit their testing dollars.

What is really important is keeping Rizzer accountable for the powders he buys from China. His ass will be on the line if you know what I mean. What I mean exactly is when he does his Chinese powder bargaining (which he apparently is quite good at), he needs to make the quality of the powder just as primary of a concern as the price. That is what this club is really doing. If we assay so much as one powder a month (that is $10 from 17 members per month), we would be making a radical statement about our standards and hopefully ensuring our (and others) safety.

Yes HPLC testing will only tell us what percent is and what percent isn't. But that is much better than nothing. As long as we are at least 98% and greater with no mystery or well known toxic peaks, I will be sitting pretty. And getting store credit at Mike's store is not so bad for a trade off.

Ejdavis has kindly offered to help organize or contribute to a devoted site.

I would like to emphasize again that this "club" (if that is what it indeed is) is NOT organized for any profit seeking activity. Its members are solely interested in their own safety while ingesting life extension/nootropic supplements.

Ed has a couple more creative ideas that I hope to speak with him about in more detail before presenting them here (I actually know ej -- not only through the forums, but we have spoken several times).

More to come later.

Take care.

#7 unipolar_mania

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 02:28 AM

I will join, providing you mail a copy of the results to me.

#8 nootropi

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 04:11 AM

I will join, providing you mail a copy of the results to me.


I nominate you the president. :)

#9 unipolar_mania

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 06:11 AM

Hehe, really?

:)

#10 unipolar_mania

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 11:31 AM

When are you going to assay some more products?

#11 unipolar_mania

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 11:33 AM

Buy something cheap from 1fast400 and assay that.

It would be interested in knowing whether they really sell what they state. Like Smi2le.biz their prices are cheap.

Edited by unipolar_mania, 23 October 2004 - 05:19 AM.


#12 nootropi

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Posted 23 October 2004 - 01:56 AM

Buy something cheap from 1fast400 and assay that.

I would be interested in knowing whether they really sell what they state.  Like Smi2le.biz their prices are cheap.


Hello Unipolar,

I offered several times to assay 1fast400 products. Their owner stated very clearly that he does not encourage this. In fact, he won't even offer customers store credit for running the assay. He says he business is too "big." You see, that is one reason I do not patronize their store anymore. They have lost sight of the forest and the trees. I have done just a little bit of research on their company and what I have encountered has disgusted me. Mike McClandless has claimed that he has a testing website. I proved that was a sham, then I discovered that he has sold mislabled products.

I have proven that Mr. McClandless is an outright liar twice now. I feel I have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he is dishonest and deflective. I am going to move on to other issues now. I will no longer address this issue unless I feel it necessary. I feel I have done a service to this community by sharing the results of my research on Mr. McClandless's business. Unless you can disprove what I have proven, please let us move on to more productive discussions.

I am in no way associated or affiliated with any other company. Due to my contraversial role in revealing the facts as I have, I renounce my role as an independent tester of smi2le's products.

Let us elect somebody else. Somebody mentioned cosmos. I second the nomination.

Take care.

#13 bdnf

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Posted 23 October 2004 - 05:21 AM

*Shocked*

To hell with 1FAST400!

(I wouldn't be at all surprised if they had anything to do with the raid)

#14 nootropi

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Posted 23 October 2004 - 04:10 PM

Please understand this is not an anger issue with me. It is a health issue. It is a safety issue. For those of you who have not followed this issue, please let me give you a brief summary:

I started purchasing nootropics in bulk this past Spring online from smi2le.biz and from 1fast400 (among a couple other mass retailers). I felt a bit uncomfortable ingesting some of these (at the time I thought they were) "mystery powders." So, I made an effort to communicate my concerns with Mike, the owner of smi2le.biz. He told me he would give me store credit at his site in exchange for the costs of the tests. I made the exact same offer to the owner of 1fast400, Mr. McClandless, and I was given the reply by David Tolson lied outright here, expecting us to be so lazy not to do the simple fact checking corroborations:

Click here for the evidence

Jun 19, 2004:

While offering to pay for independent testing is good from a business standpoint for a small, nonestablished company, it isn't really for a bigger company like 1Fast/BN, as we would just be paying for testing for a product that we already know is pure. We already get many of the powders tested by a third party to begin with (any time the purity is in question). Mike has also paid for independent testing of many other supplements from other supplement companies, most of which we sell (see http://www.labelclaimstesting.com). There is certainly a lot more quality control going on than most of the competitors: products are tested by a third party before they are sold. And, just try asking BAC for a COA. Not saying there aren't plenty of good reasons to support a company that offers to pay for testing, and also to support small/growing businesses, I just think that 1fast has helped a lot in establishing more integrity in the industry, which shouldn't be discounted either.


My reply:

We in the eyes of the public, is not "us." If indeed 1fast400 already pays for independent third party verification of quality and freedom from contaminants, then this should be well documented and the results should be available to the consumer. BUT-- then how and where can the consumer verify that these "tests" take place and that what is tested is what is purchased?

A "third party" is one not affiliated with the profiting party; clearly there exists a conflict of interest.

Here I offer my own funds to verify the claims of any nootropic that I purchase off of the internet, in exchange for product. I consider myself trusted in these forums, because I have proven that I have no affiliation with any of the supplement providers. If 1fast400 wants to offer me product for the amount of third party tests, I will be pleased to submit a random sample and share the results here and at any other supplement forum. It is my firm belief that consumer oriented third party testing would bring about enormous confidence in the respective company that offers this opportunity to the consumer, granted s/he is trusted not to be affiliated with any profiting party; thus it is in their best interest to offer this opportunity.


After researching the labelclaimstesting site and finding out that it is bogus (they have only 1 HPLC assay and most assays are cereal/protein bars); no nootroics were assayed.

After just a little more research, I found that 1fast400 has shipped out falsely labeled products to their customers. In fact, Mr. McClandless admitted that he did not do so much as glance at the product before shipping it out. Now I cannot find a quality control algorithm with a poorer defect than that.

It has recently come to our attention that a raw material supplier has sent us
L-Carnitine instead of ALCAR.  While labeled as such, with a lab assay included,
it seems someone made a big mistake.  This includes myself.  I foolishly trusted
this company.  I did not inspect the material personally, which I should have.


Source

This admission clearly proves that Mr. McClandless's sources are not credible. And consider the fact that he won't allow his own customers to merely verify that his products are as advertised in exchange for store credit.

What is important about consumer oriented purity checks is that it gives us a way to verify to hold our sources accountable and pressures them to bring the highest quality product to market. No accountability = less respect for the customer = lower standards = bad business.

I have a lot of work to do this weekend, so I have to go.

Take care.

#15 nootropi

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Posted 23 October 2004 - 04:22 PM

Another entry:

I am going to devote sime time in the next two weeks developing a way for people to "join" the Purity club so that its members get full value and so it can be managed efficiently.

Unipolar, Pinball wizard, BDNF, scottl, Zen Catholic, ejdavis1, lynx, cosmos, everybody else:

I think the best way to run the purity club could be arranged so that each of us could submit a random sample; yet the club will be paying collectively. I will try to find a way to do this.

BDNF, scottl, Zen Catholic, ejdavis1, cosmos, lynx, etc.: if the club pays for the testing, would you be will to submit a sample, if the submission paymet comes out of the club's pocket?

And, after you get the results, could you upload them here?

#16 scottl

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Posted 23 October 2004 - 09:03 PM

I would be glad to. I need to get my regimen figured out which will take a month or three. Hopefully he will have things set up so I can buy things in capsules from him by then.

#17 bdnf

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Posted 23 October 2004 - 09:09 PM

I think the best way to run the purity club could be arranged so that each of us could submit a random sample; yet the club will be paying collectively.


Good thinking.

#18

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Posted 24 October 2004 - 02:58 AM

So $10USD a month, for product testing in this community and a store credit of $10 a month in return.

I like that idea. I just hope it doesn't strain smi2le's business, because that store credit comes at a loss to smi2le and is offered as a convenience to the customer.

#19 unipolar_mania

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Posted 24 October 2004 - 03:10 AM

He still hasn't answer my emails despite moving into his new location.

I want to be part of this club, but I would like to hear from him first before I hand over any money.

#20 nootropi

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Posted 24 October 2004 - 03:30 AM

@cosoms: Rizzer will earn great respect throughout the nootropic industry for such a customer oriented policy. $10 in store credits from us customers shouldn't bring too big of a strain, but it is worth considering...

@unipolar: have you tried calling him?

#21

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Posted 24 October 2004 - 04:18 AM

Well you have my support for the moment, I think it's a good idea, I just think we should discuss it a bit more and talk to Rizzer perhaps.

#22 pinballwizard

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 11:12 PM

He still hasn't answer my emails despite moving into his new location.

I want to be part of this club, but I would like to hear from him first before I hand over any money.


I talked to him today. He is swamped. He said he is just not answering emails now and just trying to get products out. This is a small company.

I am down with this product. I am also down with testing other companies as well. I would like to send in mine for testing too, Nootropi.

Pinball

#23 nootropi

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 01:40 AM

He still hasn't answer my emails despite moving into his new location.

I want to be part of this club, but I would like to hear from him first before I hand over any money.


I talked to him today. He is swamped. He said he is just not answering emails now and just trying to get products out. This is a small company.

I am down with this product. I am also down with testing other companies as well. I would like to send in mine for testing too, Nootropi.

Pinball


Pinball, can you help me orgainize the purity club? Any ideas? I am really busy with school work myself right now.

#24 killer_macro

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 05:05 AM

Whose products are you checking?

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#25 nootropi

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 11:46 AM

Whose products are you checking?


smi2le's. And what product we check is up to us.




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