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Help me avoid SSRIs!


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#1 rdanneskjold

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 07:13 PM


Hello Everyone,

As I described in earlier posts, I had my first true response for depression and brain fog from Stablon and Wellbutrin combination. but about two months later it stopped working, after a gradual decline in effectiveness. Increasing dosage did not help.

I am hoping that a holiday of two or three weeks will re-sensitize me. I liked it so much that I can handle an on-off regimen. But my previous experiences with SSRIs were that they did not work nearly as well and the side effects were intolerable for me.

Here's my question: What else out there might work for me to treat a mild depression and general brain fog? I have heard a lot about high doses of fish oil, Lithium Orotate, and a few others. I'd really love to hear what else out there would be worth looking at.

AND if anyone can answer my original question as to whether I can expect to be re-sensitized to Stablon after a period of non-use, I would sure appreciate it. It seems like it's status as an orphan drug in the US makes it difficult to know such details.


thanks again and I look forward to your thoughtful replies!


-Danneskjold

#2 chrono

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 12:59 PM

Did you ever try stablon by itself? Could your dosage have been increased?

Agomelatine is another new one worth looking into. I can't remember if it can be combined with tianeptine or not. Check out the board Agomelatine Psychonauts for more experiences (some for Stablon, as well).

A low does of lithium certainly might be worth trying. I take it just for a general mood boost, improved stress response, and neuroprotection, but I seem to recall several here having good results with depression. I found the more dramatic effects wore off after about a month, but I haven't bothered increasing my dose, which might help.

I would also start taking a generally therapeutic dosage of magnesium and fish oil; it's good for you, and may be another part of the equation.

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#3 Logan

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 04:20 PM

Definitely fish oil. Moderate to intense exercise. Possibly st. john's wort-Kira, Perika, or New Chapter's SC27 or Serofin.

#4 recitative

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 10:08 PM

Cognitive therapy worked for me.

#5 LizerLife

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 11:42 PM

YOu should give Pristiq (SNSRI) a try or N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine 250-750mg 2-3 times a day. What do you have agianst SSRI's any way.

#6 MoodyBlue

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 12:04 AM

If SSRI's were prescribed for you in the past, it's because the doctor thought you might have low levels of serotonin. Then again, your doctor might just be blindly prescribing anti-depressants as a panacea for a problem too complicated to for him or her to correctly diagnose. Not that anyone else would know how to analyse every little thing which might not be optimal in your brain chemistry. The problem with SSRI's is that although they increase the amount of serotonin in the synapses, reuptake inhibition results in a degraded quality of neurotransmitters according to the author of the book, "The Amino Revolution." That could account for at least some of the side effects of SSRI's and other reuptake inhibitors. There is a formulated supplement which uses other ingredients in addition to tryptophan which results in less of the tryptophan being converted to something else before it gets to the brain, thus more of the tryptophan gets to the brain. It's called Optimized Tryptopure Plus. Read this article for relevant info: http://search.lef.or...d=tryptopure%20. Another neurotransmitter which your brain might be low in is GABA (the only amino acid which behaves as a neurotransmitter as soon as it gets into the brain without needing to be altered). The problem with synthetic GABA is that 0.4% of it is highly toxic. So, if you have a leaky brain barrier like me, the synthetic GABA will make you groggy all the next day even if you take just before bedtime. Naturally made PharmaGaba (made via bacterial fermentation) can be taken morning, midday, or before bed. Watch this video about it: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Y455O9NLPuA. It can help balance your neurotransmitters somewhat if they are out of balance. Just by making you calmer and less stressed it might help relieve brain fog. Another thing that might help is Noopept. Read my two posts here: http://www.imminst.o...post__p__425077 and http://www.imminst.o...post__p__424457. Here are the instructions, etc. translated from Russian: http://translate.goo...l%3Den%26sa%3DG. I'm not sure if it is necessary or preferable to use a choline supplement while using Noopept as it is with the racetams. I happened to be using Alpha GPC along with some racetams at the time and had excellent results. It took about 3 weeks before I felt like I had peaked with its therapeutic effect. Then there is the controversial Nefiracetam which I've never tried but might in the future. Some claim it has a somewhat amphetamine like effect. Here is a source (I can't vouch for the quality): http://www.ktbotanic...0937fc6f3c952b5.

I would try the Optimized Tryptopure Plus first all by itself before anything else. That way you might be able to tell if low serotonin is a problem for you. Even if it makes you feel and function a lot better, you might want to try PharmaGaba while either while continuing Opt. Trypt. Plus, or by itself. Then later you might want to see if you can benefit from Noopept. Lastly, if you're adventurous or desperate, you might want to try Nefiracetam.

Edited by MoodyBlue, 27 August 2010 - 01:01 AM.


#7 chrono

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 11:46 PM

If SSRI's were prescribed for you in the past, it's because the doctor thought you might have low levels of serotonin. Then again, your doctor might just be blindly prescribing anti-depressants as a panacea for a problem too complicated to for him or her to correctly diagnose.

I'd suggest that most doctors prescribe SSRIs in this way. AFAIK there's not a very elegant way to diagnose serotonin deficiency as such. 'Diagnosis' is usually performed by response to various medications.

Lastly, if you're adventurous or desperate, you might want to try Nefiracetam.

I'm curious why you're recommending nefiracetam for this, specifically? It hasn't had much discussion here, let alone any good user accounts.

#8 Wurzel Bagman

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 12:48 PM

Vaporize 0.1-1 grams marijuana daily. Small, controlled dose/s in a vaporizer at 4:20AM in the morning is a great way to set me in a great mood and be very productive and even energetic in my day-to-day social and work activities. Marijuana is safe alternative to SSRIs (Especially when vaporized or eaten) It does get a bit of a bad rep from the media for being 'dangerous' but that's only because it's illegal in most areas of the world. However, more and more legal for medicinal use laws are popping up today.

"And in the scientific literature, we had some evidence that people treated with cannabis for multiple sclerosis or AIDS showed a big improvement in mood disorders," http://www.ctv.ca/CT...rijuana_071023/

Mood disorders aren't exclusive to aids, MS, cancer etc patients. :happy:

Edited by ptamaddict, 28 August 2010 - 01:16 PM.


#9 pycnogenol

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 02:06 PM

Vaporize 0.1-1 grams marijuana daily. Small, controlled doses in a vaporizer at 4:20 AM in the morning is a great way to set me in a great mood and be very productive and even energetic in my day-to-day social and work activities.



So you're the one that gets up at 4:20 AM, huh?!? We've been looking for you! :laugh:


http://en.wikipedia....Senate_Bill_420

Edited by pycnogenol, 28 August 2010 - 02:07 PM.


#10 Animal

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 02:53 PM

If SSRI's were prescribed for you in the past, it's because the doctor thought you might have low levels of serotonin. Then again, your doctor might just be blindly prescribing anti-depressants as a panacea for a problem too complicated to for him or her to correctly diagnose.

I'd suggest that most doctors prescribe SSRIs in this way. AFAIK there's not a very elegant way to diagnose serotonin deficiency as such. 'Diagnosis' is usually performed by response to various medications.


You're right about this, though personally I think it's quite obvious if an individual has a serious deficit of serotonergic activity. Many depressive disorder subtypes do not fit this mould, especially if they lack emotional volatility or an anxiety component.

Many doctors seem incapable of making simple correlations between patient response to medication and the subtype of depression they have. So they just follow the same routine every time. To be fair GP's do have very limited powers when it comes to prescribing medication outside of typical indications.

Every pharmaceutical I have ever been prescribed for my dysthymia and chronic fatigue has been exclusively what I've either tenaciously suggested, or coerced my psychiatrist/CFS consultant into giving me. LoL, basically all these professionals have done is give me a convenient and legal way of acquiring medication I would have otherwise sourced. I suppose I should be thankful they even listen at all, judging from some of the reports on this site.

Edited by Animal, 28 August 2010 - 02:55 PM.


#11 rvdvaart

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 06:53 PM

I was researching the common SSRI's and a lot of people complain of memory loss from them. Has anyone experienced this? I can understand the original posters concerns if this is true

#12 Logan

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 02:10 AM

I was researching the common SSRI's and a lot of people complain of memory loss from them. Has anyone experienced this? I can understand the original posters concerns if this is true


Nope, never experienced memory loss on SSRIs. During my years of prozac and zoloft my memory was sharp as a tack.

Anything can happen with psychiatric medications, you take them at your own risk, whatever that is.

#13 Animal

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 05:53 PM

I was researching the common SSRI's and a lot of people complain of memory loss from them. Has anyone experienced this? I can understand the original posters concerns if this is true


Nope, never experienced memory loss on SSRIs. During my years of prozac and zoloft my memory was sharp as a tack.

Anything can happen with psychiatric medications, you take them at your own risk, whatever that is.


Personally I think your experience of SSRI's was fairly atypical, considering you seemingly had a mild hypomanic reaction to Zoloft. For many people SSRI's have the side effect of making them feel mentally sluggish, although memory loss is uncommon.

#14 Logan

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 06:28 PM

I was researching the common SSRI's and a lot of people complain of memory loss from them. Has anyone experienced this? I can understand the original posters concerns if this is true


Nope, never experienced memory loss on SSRIs. During my years of prozac and zoloft my memory was sharp as a tack.

Anything can happen with psychiatric medications, you take them at your own risk, whatever that is.


Personally I think your experience of SSRI's was fairly atypical, considering you seemingly had a mild hypomanic reaction to Zoloft. For many people SSRI's have the side effect of making them feel mentally sluggish, although memory loss is uncommon.


I wonder if we hear about these adverse effects because the population of people that experience them are more likely to come on the internet and complain of them. What about all those other people that feel perfectly fine for years on SSRIs and never feel the need to come on the internet and report how good they feel because they are just enjoying their lives. I believe there are just as many or more people out there feeling good and functioning at a high level on SSRIs than feeling bad. I actually personally have known and still know at least 7 people that have felt good on SSRIs and functioned at a very high level without any adverse effects like impaired mental functioning or flattened/numb mood. I think the most common side effects of SSRIs concern weight gain and libido or orgasm. Some people that feel good and function well on SSRIs often do experience these side effects.

I do think my experience with SSRIs as monotherapy is atypical of someone who is bipolar.

Edited by morganator, 29 August 2010 - 06:28 PM.


#15 rdanneskjold

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 09:18 PM

Hello All,

I am the OP on this thread. thanks for all the replies.

I muddled around for a while, returning to the Stablon/Wellbutrin combination off and on. It never seemed to work as well as the first time. I am learning that I am highly suggestable to the placebo effect!

Part of the reason i was nervous about SSRIs was psychological. I just plain did not want to admit that I was clinically depressed. and I have a fear and distrust of doctors and psychologists. It was not until I started to have some severe mood swings that I listened to the advice of a good friend and made an appointment with a shrink.

He prescribed Prozac, which really surprised me. but he explained that it could also help my possible bipolar symptoms, and also have the side effect of giving me energy. I've been taking 20mg for almost a month now, and I have to say that it has been a life-changer. The first week was absolute hell, with moodiness and irritability unlike any other that I've had, and accompanied by the worst headaches since my skull fracture 30 years ago. but that passed and I just started feeling better.

My brain fog is gone, I do not get mental fatigue, and my moods are pretty stable now. the sexual side-effects I had with Lexapro years ago (profound numbness) are pretty much absent. there is a slight loss of sensitivity, but that is almost a good thing...!

I am still taking
-clonidine, .15mg x 2 a day
-propranolol, 5mg/ day
-lithium orotate, 2 capsules a day
-fish oil, 10g/ day
-multivitamin
-n-acetyl cysteine
-aged garlic
-bacopa
and Melatonin for sleep

I have recently thought to try piracetam again, or maybe one of the new analogs, but since things are working well as-is, I'll save that for the rainy day when the Prozac stops working. god forbid!


Thanks again, everyone. I would love any additinal feedback.

RD

#16 longevitynow

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 11:35 PM

I and many friends have had great results with 5-HTP. A more natural way to make serotonin with fewer side effects and IME works equally well if not better.

#17 nupi

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Posted 18 October 2011 - 12:24 AM

I would really avoid 5-HTP while on an SSRI - you do not want to boost Serotonin precursors to the level where you experience Serotonin Toxicity

#18 What'sAllThisThen

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Posted 18 October 2011 - 01:13 AM

I used to take Amoryn (SJW +stuff) and Seredyn (theanine + stuff) for anxiety and a little depression. Switched to SAMe several months ago and found vast improvement. Now I'm down to 200mg of SAMe about 5 days a week and just as effective as the 400mg I was taking. I've also taken fish or krill oil for years. And not until just recently did I realize how important that was. I ran out of Krill Oil about a week ago and had been taking much less the last few weeks as I noticed my bottle dwindling. And this week I started getting some old feelings back. Nothing really bad, but anxiety can come a brewing when drowning at work with requests coming from multiple directions. Or depression when going to work, thinking about certain things, etc. Things that I could think of just a few weeks ago and not be bothered by.

#19 hippocampus

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Posted 18 October 2011 - 09:59 AM

you could benefit from zinc if you're deficient (even if you eat it enough you may have bad zinc:copper ratio; it should be 10:1).

#20 nowayout

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Posted 18 October 2011 - 12:28 PM

What do you have agianst SSRI's any way.


Sexual dysfunction.

#21 nito

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Posted 18 October 2011 - 02:43 PM

I am on stablon, i must say it works for me. Give me a nice boost in reducing anxiety feelings, and slight decrease in depression.

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#22 rdanneskjold

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 06:24 PM

super late update here: turns out I had a brain tumor. Subependymoma in left ventricle, size of a tangerine. removed in 2013, better ever since. but still in need of help.... Post-operative depression REALLY kicked my ass, plus, the brain just does not like to be touched. SO, I worked up to 80mg of Prozac, 400mg of Wellbutrin XR, 100mg of Lamictal (originally taken as a seizure preventative, but found that it also has powerful anti-depressant qualities. Life is good! RD




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