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How safe/effective is Deprenyl?


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#1 haim78

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 07:32 PM


First of all hello to everybody, I'm new to the forum. Writing from Spain, excuse me for my English, I haven't taken enough nootropics yet [lol]

My question is the following:

I've studied Medicine for three years, then I stopped studying during four years (yes, economic problems), now I've worked enough and I can go on with the career. The thing is that I really realize the 'mental atrophy' that you can get as a result of stop studying for such a long time. Well I am in panic...

I usually had a smart-mind and studying long texts wasn't very difficult for me, at least I remember so...

Despite of the fact that now I'm noticing a slow but strong improvement by forcing myself to concentrate for a few hours every day, I've decided to take anything which can help me in this matter, I've just ordered from smi2le (praying that it will not dissapear now, they have really the best prices I've ever seen. It would be very sad; here in europe we also suffer from all kinds of restrictions and stupid prohibitions, by example I can buy several kg of tetraciclynes but cannot buy a mg of melathonin):

- Aniracetam
- A-L-Carnitnine
- R-ALA
- Alpha GPC

At my University I can do all the mixture and put it into pills in a very accurate way, but it isn't my question.

I've been taking Huperzine A (300mcg), Galantamine (2mg), B-50, Coline/Inositol (500/500), Pregnenolone(50mg) and Hypericum during 4 months (approximately)

The truth is that I would like to obtain quick results so I'm considering to start taking deprenyl (1mg of selegiline) and Hydergine (4,5mg), but I'm not sure about the most usual adverse reactions, specially about the selegiline for being a MAO-B inhibitor (it can even act an MAO-A inhibitor at some doses)...

Have anyone of you felt strong side effects? What are them? Did they force you to stop taking it? and the most important thing, is it really effective? I don't mind very much having mild headaches for a few days if it will bring me back my memory (short-term specially), but I don't know what are the most common side effects, I'm refering to those ones that are usual, not about the catastrophic single case that is written in the receipt.

Thanks a lot.
Greetings from Spain

#2 pinballwizard

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Posted 14 October 2004 - 05:08 PM

First of all hello to everybody]

My question is the following:

I've studied Medicine for three years, then I stopped studying during four years (yes, economic problems), now I've worked enough and I can go on with the career. The thing is that I really realize the 'mental atrophy' that you can get as a result of stop studying for such a long time. Well I am in panic...

I usually had a smart-mind and studying long texts wasn't very difficult for me, at least I remember so...

Despite of the fact that now I'm noticing a slow but strong improvement by forcing myself to concentrate for a few hours every day, I've decided to take anything which can help me in this matter, I've just ordered from smi2le (praying that it will not dissapear now, they have really the best prices I've ever seen. It would be very sad; here in europe we also suffer from all kinds of restrictions and stupid prohibitions, by example I can buy several kg of tetraciclynes but cannot buy a mg of melathonin):

- Aniracetam
- A-L-Carnitnine
- R-ALA
- Alpha GPC

At my University I can do all the mixture and put it into pills in a very accurate way, but it isn't my question.

I've been taking Huperzine A (300mcg), Galantamine (2mg), B-50, Coline/Inositol (500/500), Pregnenolone(50mg) and Hypericum during 4 months (approximately)

The truth is that I would like to obtain quick results so I'm considering to start taking deprenyl (1mg of selegiline) and Hydergine (4,5mg), but I'm not sure about the most usual adverse reactions, specially about the selegiline for being a MAO-B inhibitor (it can even act an MAO-A inhibitor at some doses)...

Have anyone of you felt strong side effects? What are them? Did they force you to stop taking it? and the most important thing, is it really effective? I don't mind very much having mild headaches for a few days if it will bring me back my memory (short-term specially), but I don't know what are the most common side effects, I'm refering to those ones that are usual, not about the catastrophic single case that is written in the receipt.

Thanks a lot.
Greetings from Spain


It seems like there is plenty of literature on the internet regarding what you should not take with deprenyl and it is TO BE TAKEN VERY SERIOUSLY. Unlike the other drugs, you could become VERY SICK OR DIE if you mix the wrong drugs with deprenyl. It is not like taking any of the other more safe nootropics. I am not taking anything else have to do with MAOs, or anti-depressents and I don't do recreational drugs like ecstasy which is quite common in the techno clubs in Europe. I know ecstasy is more lethal mixed with something in my stack and i am pretty sure it was deprenyl.

I will tell you something that I am an expert on. I had been taking deprenyl for 2 weeks at 1mg a day and I just recently learned through titrating (trial and error dosage) that it was just too much for me, a 30 year old.

I read the book Smart Drugs II and realized that 1mg like 3 times a week is good enough for my age.

That is a pretty small dosage. Otherwise you might feel a little moody and wierd.

Pinball wizard

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#3 nootropi

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Posted 16 October 2004 - 12:54 AM

I don't know about the GETTING SICK OR DIE part! I take 1 mg of deprenyl every day. I had some weird side effects when I started, but they went away after about a week.

I think 1 mg is a trivial dose considering the "theraputic range" is 10 mg or more.

#4 pinballwizard

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Posted 16 October 2004 - 03:04 AM

I don't know about the GETTING SICK OR DIE part!  I take 1 mg of deprenyl every day.  I had some weird side effects when I started, but they went away after about a week. 

I think 1 mg is a trivial dose considering the "theraputic range" is 10 mg or more.


Sorry, I think I went a bit much with the ALLCAPS. I just wanted to get through to him because of the English-Spanish language barrier. I take deprenyl too. Like I said before, I changed from 1mg a day to 1 mg a few days a week.

Of course, dont take more than 10mgs / day. he should be taking 1mg or less because of his age per day.

But he should also look to see if he should take deprenyl at all. Yes, there are fatalities due to deprenyl. It is from mixing with other stuff, or taking too much. It is in the material I have read. "brain candy" page 92-93 for example. (It has been fatal when mixed with estrogen and progesterone like oral birth control pills, tricyclic anti-depressants, serotonin-reuptake inhibitors like prozac, and opoids like demerol. Also they said there might be more fatalities because sometimes it may give you dizzy spells as a side effect.)
However, I will say that although the book Brain candy is anti-smart drugs, other material online has made some warnings.

Having said that, deprenyl is unique and great smart drug according to the research we have currently. If deprenyl is half of what it is cracked up to be with its life extension in mice, and its treatment with Parkinsons diesease, then we should live until we are 110 with full of energy.

I dont want to start a debate besides you know more than me nootropi,

Pinballwizard

#5 haim78

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Posted 16 October 2004 - 07:13 PM

Thanks for your replies :)

Yes I do know that Deprenyl isn't as safe as the other ones and you have to be very careful with mixing it with other drugs but what I really want to know if it is so effective to justify its risks according to your own experiences.

I'm specially interested in something effective to improve attention, as well as memory of course.

Among what I've tried I've found most effective CDP-Choline+Huperzine-A until now but I'm sure better things are out there, maybe modafinil, PS (I tried it during three moths, I think it isn't much powerful), Deprenyl (?)... I feel that there must be something there waiting for me, but I don't find it.

Thanks again

#6 pinballwizard

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 09:45 PM

Thanks for your replies :)

Yes I do know that Deprenyl isn't as safe as the other ones and you have to be very careful with mixing it with other drugs but what I really want to know if it is so effective to justify its risks according to your own experiences.

I'm specially interested in something effective to improve attention, as well as memory of course.

Among what I've tried I've found most effective CDP-Choline+Huperzine-A until now but I'm sure better things are out there, maybe modafinil, PS (I tried it during three moths, I think it isn't much powerful), Deprenyl (?)... I feel that there must be something there waiting for me, but I don't find it.

Thanks again


Well here are a few words of advice. Some I heard elsewhere.

*There is usually not one thing to make you smart, it is the synergy of many things.
*These products don't increase inteligence overnight, it takes 3-9 months in most cases (this is actual research results).
*I never said stay away from deprenyl, I said that some people cannot take it.
*what about vitamins--like B complex?
*what about titrating up more?
*what about taking more than one (pira)cetam-type drug?
*what about hydergine--it combines well with the -cetams?
*what about buying the book, "smart drugs" where they talk about synergies more in depth?
*cardio exercise.
*Are you taking the right dosages?
*I think vinpocetine has actual results immediately and so does vassopressin (generic: desmopressin) but vasso is more risky, so read the warnings. (I take both, just not desmopressin on a regular basis...I personally don't see a whole lot of difference with desmopressin in cognitive function)\

I know there are more answers to your questions, but this is all I know off the top of my head.

I got a hold of smile today, your order should be shipped out today or tomorrow unless you ordered the product about 2 days prior to the Nazis storming the gentleman's shop. So you order might already be on a plane to Spain!

I hope this helps...

Pinball

#7 haim78

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Posted 21 October 2004 - 02:56 PM

Very good new, I hope that it'll not take a year to arrive to Spain, I don't trust at all our post-service, is really bad in my country.

Another thing, it seems that Deprenyl isn't so dangerous mixed with other drugs, I thought it was much more risky:

Retrospective study of selegiline-antidepressant drug interactions and a review of the literature.

Ritter JL, Alexander B.

University of Washington Medical Center, Seattle 98105, USA.

Selegiline is a selective monoamine oxidase inhibitor used in the treatment of Parkinson's disease. It is estimated that approximately one-half of Parkinsonian patients will develop depression requiring antidepressant drug treatment. Recently, selegiline's package insert was revised to reflect the potential risk of adverse effects when it is used in combination with selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors and tricyclic antidepressants. The objective of our study is to assess the safety of combining selegiline with antidepressants. A retrospective chart review was performed on all 28 patients with Parkinson's disease receiving selegiline and antidepressants concurrently to identify possible drug interactions. Compliance was assessed according to prescription refill records. Suspected adverse reactions with combination therapy were documented. There was a total of 40 selegiline-antidepressant drug combinations involving tricyclic antidepressants (n = 25), selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (n = 7), trazodone (n = 5), and bupropion (n = 3). One patient receiving fluoxetine developed a reaction consistent with the serotonin syndrome; however, it was never documented as such. No other selegiline drug interactions were found. Adverse effects noted were typical of antidepressant monotherapy. Although no selegiline drug interactions were documented in our study, the concurrent administration of selegiline and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors should be avoided because of literature-reported interactions. We believe that bupropion, tricyclic antidepressants, and trazodone are reasonable choices in combination with selegiline, although tricyclic antidepressants and trazodone may be reserved as second-line treatments.

Publication Types:
Review
Review, Tutorial

PMID: 9167831 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Note: Completely avoid Hypericum if you're taking deprenyl, now it's known that hyperizin acts as a MAO inhibitor (as well as a SSRI)

Nevertheless Im'm not yet decided to take it, and I've bought a box, but I'm afraid of it :) to take or not to take, that's the question

Edited by haim78, 21 October 2004 - 07:00 PM.


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#8 olderbutwiser

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 01:58 AM

Low dosage of Deprenyl (1mg per day or less) appears to be safe. At that level it would be surprising for there to be adverse effects or interactions with anything in healthy people.

As far as "effective", I doubt that there are any detectable subjective effects or interactions with other smart drugs at all from a 1mg/day dose. I certainly can not attribute any effect at all to deprenyl at that dose and I have been taking it for over a decade & mixing it with many various other compounds I have tried over those years. It has no detectable effect, day to day, at all.

I take deprenyl for the reputed long term neuroprotective effect. From my experience I would say it is not worth the time, money & slight risk for anyone under 35. I would guess that it could very well be detrimental if it was "titrated" up to doses where an effect was noticed in a healthy person. I certainly would never consider a dose where subjective effects could be expected (>5mg/day ?), unless I had Parkinson's or AD.

OBW




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