72 replies to this topic

[rwac]

<span style='font-family: Verdana'><strong class='bbc'>After-breakfast:<br /></strong>D3: 2000IU<br />Vitamin K2 Mk-4: 1 mg<br />Zinc(Albion glycinate chelate): 30 mg<br />Copper(Sebacate): 1.5mg<br />Selenium (SeMSC): 200mcg<br />Chromium: 200mcg<br />Astragalus root: 750mg<br />Oregano oil: 300mg<br />Tocotrienols: 50mg<br />Jarrosil: 2mg<br />Potassium Iodide: 150mg<br />Coconut oil: 1 Tbsp<br />Choline: 125mg<br />Viragraphis: 1x<br /><strong class='bbc'><br />After-lunch:</strong><br />Selenium(SeMSC): 200mcg<br />Maca Monster: ~2g<br />Coconut oil: 1 Tbsp<br />Astragalus root: 750mg<br />Thymus: 1000mg<br /><strong class='bbc'><br />Pre-workout:</strong><br />KAL SOD 3 (SOD Complex, enteric coated): 800mg<br /><strong class='bbc'><br />After-dinner:</strong><br />Magnesium Malate: 300mg<br />CDP-Choline: 250mg<br />Thorne B Complex #12<br />Lithium Orotate/Aspartate: 2.5mg<br />Selenium (SeMSC): 200mcg<br />Chromium: 200mcg<br />Ashwagandha(Sensoril): 225mg<br />Lutein: 20mg<br />K2 MK4: 5mg<br />Coconut oil: 1 Tbsp<br />Monolaurin: 300mg<br />Choline: 125mg</span><br /><span style='font-family: Verdana'>Viragraphis: 1x<br /><br /></span><span style='font-family: Verdana'><strong class='bbc'>After any protein containing meal: </strong><br />ACV: 600mg<br />Gelatin: 3g (Anti-IBS)<br /><strong class='bbc'><br />Antivirals:</strong><br />Coconut oil, Monolaurin, Olive leaf extract, Oregano oil, Astragalus, Egcg<br /><strong class='bbc'><br />Anti-Aging:</strong><br />Astragalus<br />Methylene Blue 120mcg 5x daily<br /><br /><strong class='bbc'>3 times a day 8 hrs apart:<br /></strong></span>Olive leaf extract: 500mg<br />Oregano oil: 300mg<br />Egcg: 200mg (135 mg caffeine free @11PM to help sleep)<br /><span style='font-family: Verdana'><br />Thorne B Complex #12:<br /><br /></span><table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td colspan="27" 3="" height="colspan="><span style='font-family: Verdana'><strong class='bbc'>Supplement Facts </strong></span></td></tr><tr><td colspan="27" 3="" height="colspan="><span style='font-family: Verdana'><strong class='bbc'>Serving Size: </strong>One Capsule </span></td> </tr><tr><td width="49%"> </td><td width="34%"><span style='font-family: Verdana'><strong class='bbc'>Each Capsule Contains: </strong></span></td><td width="17%"><span style='font-family: Verdana'><strong class='bbc'>% DV </strong></span></td></tr><tr><td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>Thiamine (from 50 mg Thiamine HCI) </span></td> <td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>40 mg </span></td><td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>2667%</span></td></tr><tr><td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>Riboflavin (from 25 mg Riboflavin and 5 mg Riboflavin 5'- Phosphate) </span></td><td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>28.6 mg </span></td><td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>1682%</span></td> </tr><tr><td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>Niacin (as Niacinamide) </span></td><td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>80 mg </span></td><td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>400%</span></td></tr><tr> <td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>Vitamin B6 (from 25 mg Pyridoxine HCI and 5 mg Pyridoxal 5'- Phosphate) </span></td><td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>23.4 mg </span></td><td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>1170%</span></td></tr><tr><td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>Folate (200 mcg as Calcium Folinate and 200 mcg as 5-Methyl-tetrahydrofolate) </span></td><td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>400 mcg </span></td> <td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>100%</span></td></tr><tr><td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>Vitamin B12 (300 mcg as Adenosylcobalamin and 300 mcg as Methylcobalamin) </span></td><td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>600 mcg </span></td><td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>10,000%</span></td></tr> <tr><td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>Biotin</span></td><td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>80 mcg </span></td><td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>27%</span></td></tr><tr><td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>Pantothenic Acid (from 50 mg Calcium Pantothenate) </span></td> <td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>45 mg </span></td><td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>450%</span></td></tr><tr><td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>Choline Citrate </span></td><td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>40 mg </span></td><td><span style='font-family: Verdana'>*</span></td> </tr><tr><td colspan="3"><span style='font-family: Verdana'>*Daily Value (DV) not established. </span></td></tr> </tbody></table>

Edited by rwac, 11 November 2010 - 04:18 PM.
removed milk thistle and manganese, reduced lithium

[suprdupracetam]

I'm not sure if at that dose methylene blue would act as an
anti viral. Most of the abstracts I briefly looked at implied
that the anti viral activity involved methylene blue + photoactivation.
But methylene blue is protective against photoactivation at low
doses. just speculating though.

[rwac]

I'm not sure if at that dose methylene blue would act as an
anti viral. Most of the abstracts I briefly looked at implied
that the anti viral activity involved methylene blue + photoactivation.
But methylene blue is protective against photoactivation at low
doses. just speculating though.

It's not meant to be antiviral. It's meant to anti-aging, reduce mitochondrial free radicals.
Fixed original post to clarify this, Thanks!

Edited by rwac, 21 September 2010 - 10:31 PM.

[nameless]

A mighty big dose of selenium there. Are you sure you need so much?

I recall you were treating Lyme at one time (or at least I think you did)... did you test positive for several viruses or co-infections too? Just wondering what viruses you may be treating there or what the cause of the CFS may be.

Although I typically don't recommend ubiquinol unless the person has a heart or mitochondrial disorder, some CFS people seem to get a little benefit from it. Have you tried it already?

And for stomach issues, or IBS, which I seem to recall you mentioning in my belly woes thread, have you tried Jarrow's IBS probiotic? I think it's the same strain as used in the Goodbelly probiotic drink.

[rwac]

A mighty big dose of selenium there. Are you sure you need so much?

I recall you were treating Lyme at one time (or at least I think you did)... did you test positive for several viruses or co-infections too? Just wondering what viruses you may be treating there or what the cause of the CFS may be.

Although I typically don't recommend ubiquinol unless the person has a heart or mitochondrial disorder, some CFS people seem to get a little benefit from it. Have you tried it already?

And for stomach issues, or IBS, which I seem to recall you mentioning in my belly woes thread, have you tried Jarrow's IBS probiotic? I think it's the same strain as used in the Goodbelly probiotic drink.

I'm not sure, but it seems to help with my headaches. One reasonable explanation is that Selenocysteine is needed for various Glutathione Peroxidases which recycle glutathione. I will try to reduce it at some point.

I was treating Lyme and babesia at one point, but the Lyme symptoms seem to have gone. Just the fatigue remains.
I've done a bunch of antibiotics so not sure what's going on now.

I have tried coq10, but haven't really noticed much from it. Will have to try again sometime.

I've tried a bunch of probiotics, but they seem to do nothing for me. That leads me to believe that the underlying problem is something else. Especially since gelatin seems to work very very well, I could go as far as to say that I don't have IBS issues any more.
I don't have an explanation as to why this works.

Edited by rwac, 21 September 2010 - 05:56 AM.

[FunkOdyssey]

EGCG and quercetin are a couple of natural anti-viral and specifically anti-retroviral supps you might consider.

[Animal]

You need to add some relevant pharmaceuticals to this regime if you want it to be truly effective.

[nameless]

I was treating Lyme and babesia at one point, but the Lyme symptoms seem to have gone. Just the fatigue remains.
I've done a bunch of antibiotics so not sure what's going on now.

I'll assume you saw an LLMD and he/she tested or treated other co-infections too? Did you get viruses (EBV, coxsackie, etc.) tested? And thyroid tested too?

Antivirals are an option, although my doc isn't so keen on them. It could be useful to get the tests done though, if you haven't already, to have an idea what the cause may be.

[rwac]

I'll assume you saw an LLMD and he/she tested or treated other co-infections too? Did you get viruses (EBV, coxsackie, etc.) tested? And thyroid tested too?

Antivirals are an option, although my doc isn't so keen on them. It could be useful to get the tests done though, if you haven't already, to have an idea what the cause may be.

Yes, I see an LLMD, but he thinks the utility of testing is questionable. I didn't test positive for Lyme by the CDC criteria in the first place, after testing twice.

But my doc thinks that viral testing isn't very useful, because my doc isn't very keen on antivirals either.
For example, I do have an EBV positive test from a while ago, but there's really no drug to treat it.

I could test for XMRV, but:
a. The treatment is quite experimental, only a couple of dozen people are doing it in the US.
b. The treatment for it is expensive which I can't afford at the moment.

So perhaps we're better off just treating with supplements. I do seem to be improving albeit slowly, setbacks aside.

Tested for thyroid, but it's fine.

[rwac]

You need to add some relevant pharmaceuticals to this regime if you want it to be truly effective.

Any suggestions you have would be very welcome.

[dilenja]

Even if the treatment is experimental, if you truly think you have a virus or retrovirus then testing would at least provide you with confirmation so that you can than better equip your anti-viral arsenal with the proper warfare.

[Animal]

You need to add some relevant pharmaceuticals to this regime if you want it to be truly effective.

Any suggestions you have would be very welcome.

Well first you need to decide exactly what effects you are looking for, or which specific symptom you want to treat; then I can make some suggestions. There is no 'miracle' pharmaceutical for CFS, but there are definitely lots that can help.

Edited by Animal, 21 September 2010 - 08:51 PM.

[nameless]

Yes, I see an LLMD, but he thinks the utility of testing is questionable. I didn't test positive for Lyme by the CDC criteria in the first place, after testing twice.

But my doc thinks that viral testing isn't very useful, because my doc isn't very keen on antivirals either.
For example, I do have an EBV positive test from a while ago, but there's really no drug to treat it.

If the EBV is IGM positive, at least you'll know what you have. My doc is the same way, but to me it'd be worth testing (assuming you have insurance) just to get an idea what you may be trying to treat.

Did you get all co-infections tested at least? My doc is similar in that regard as well, but did do all the standard lyme/co-infection tests twice on me. I don't know what you were treated with, or what positive tests you had, but it's possible a co-infection is still causing some symptoms even if Lyme has been treated.

[Lufega]

You probably shouldn't take so much vitamin C with the selenium together. Read something about ascorbate negating either selenium absorption or it's effect. Have you considered ALCAR for fatigue ?

[rwac]

If the EBV is IGM positive, at least you'll know what you have. My doc is the same way, but to me it'd be worth testing (assuming you have insurance) just to get an idea what you may be trying to treat.

Did you get all co-infections tested at least? My doc is similar in that regard as well, but did do all the standard lyme/co-infection tests twice on me. I don't know what you were treated with, or what positive tests you had, but it's possible a co-infection is still causing some symptoms even if Lyme has been treated.

I don't have insurance at the moment.

You probably shouldn't take so much vitamin C with the selenium together. Read something about ascorbate negating either selenium absorption or it's effect. Have you considered ALCAR for fatigue ?

Interesting, I will separate them. I haven't tried ALCAR in a while, I don't recall it doing much when I tried it.

[Rational Madman]

You need to add some relevant pharmaceuticals to this regime if you want it to be truly effective.

Yeah, I would scrap a lot of this, and switch to a quality multivitamin that's buttressed by a few choice supplements. And, in the place of those supplements, consider any of the following: Armodafinil/Modafinil, a MAO inhibitor, amphetamine salts, Strattera, Wellbutrin, Valtrex, Rifampin, Doxycycline, Rapamycin, triiodothyronine, testosterone, Ondansetron, Hydrocortisone, Prednisone, Minocycline, Pioglitazone, Galantamine, Donepezil, Cabergoline, an SSRI, Amisulpride, Amineptine, Methylphenidate, nicotine, or Diflucan. However, I would keep the CDP Choline, the astragalus (but consider Astral Fruit C), and the oregano, which assays have found to be an extremely potent antioxidant. I presume you're also using methylene blue from Korda---which is wild---but you're taking an amount that has dubious clinical efficacy, and consuming a highly impure substance that crosses the blood brain barrier with great difficulty---if at all. For supplements, consider pregnenolone, ribose, luteolin, curcumin, resveratrol, MasterGene P16, cocoa, clove oil, EGCG extract, and maybe high dose NADH, but there is a metaphysical certainty that an emphasis on supplementation will prove to be disappointing.

Edited by Rol82, 24 September 2010 - 06:26 AM.

[Rational Madman]

As for the generic pharmacies, I'm uncomfortable with posting hyperlinks, because it begs for a regulatory response, but many of my suggestions can be obtained affordably, but adopting an a la Kurzweil approach may create problems for most.

Edited by Rol82, 22 September 2010 - 10:40 PM.

[rwac]

Animal, Rol32:

Aren't you guys the least bit worried that there's likely to be an underlying cause to all the dysfunction, and that it might get worse over time ?
Or do you not believe in an underlying cause ? Is it simply a matter of "I need X to function" ?

How do you guys decide which supplements to trust anyway ?

[Rational Madman]

Animal, Rol32:

Aren't you guys the least bit worried that there's likely to be an underlying cause to all the dysfunction, and that it might get worse over time ?
Or do you not believe in an underlying cause ? Is it simply a matter of "I need X to function" ?

How do you guys decide which supplements to trust anyway ?

None of these pervasive disorders are monocausal, and you'll likely drive yourself mad by trying to find, and treat the ostensible root cause---which is more likely one of several relevant etiologies. In my opinion, the best approach to these types of disorders is the carpet bombing method, which in your case, would need to address: an altered immune response, chronic fatigue, a reduction in intracellular glutathione, generalized cognitive dysfunction, a mysterious infection, HPA disruption, and neuropsychiatric illness. I know it must suck, but unfortunately there isn't a panacea treatment, and patient prognosis is poor with conventional treatment in CFS, so what choice do you have? Just treat all convincing/evidence-based explanations as certainties for the time being, try to find a specialist (I'll give a hint, they're often found at universities, and have made extensive contributions to legitimate peer-reviewed journals), wait patiently for the participants in the medical system to cease their infantile neuroticism, and that legislation altering marketplace incentives in favor of greater risk taking in patient care is created.

Personally, I think we place too much faith in supplements, which are less efficacious than other alternatives. But, they are nonetheless useful. When judging supplement brands, I look at reputation, formulations, evidence of quality assurance, behavior that's in accordance with the state of science (like, not selling shark cartilage as a cancer cure), and price signals. Most of the companies are unscrupulous, and to be honest, I have my reservations with nearly all---save RevGenetics, Nordic Naturals, AOR, Bluebonnet Nutrition, Cerebral Health, and Relentless Improvement. But there are also some fairly good players out there, like NOW, Thorne, Life Extension, Carlson's, and Solgar. But, I haven't personally tried and researched every company, and my wisdom is not infallible on this matter, so your choices should largely be determined by personal preference, judgement, budget, relative need, and the pool of wisdom.

Edited by Rol82, 24 September 2010 - 06:37 AM.

[rwac]

EGCG and quercetin are a couple of natural anti-viral and specifically anti-retroviral supps you might consider.

I added EGCG, and I'm taking EGCG+Olive Leaf 3x daily. For some reason, quercetin doesn't agree with me.

[FunkOdyssey]

EGCG and quercetin are a couple of natural anti-viral and specifically anti-retroviral supps you might consider.

I added EGCG, and I'm taking EGCG+Olive Leaf 3x daily. For some reason, quercetin doesn't agree with me.

Ever tried myricetin? It inhibited MLV and HIV reverse transcriptase equally well as quercetin, 100% inhibition at 1mcg/mL. http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1695572

[rwac]

Ever tried myricetin? It inhibited MLV and HIV reverse transcriptase equally well as quercetin, 100% inhibition at 1mcg/mL. http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1695572

That's definitely something to try, but it's not as cheap as quercetin. I suppose I should also try a different brand of quercetin to see if it makes a difference, I had some natrol stuff lying around.

Also, what brand of EGCG do you use ? because the NOW brand 400mg has only 200mg EGCG in it.

Edited by rwac, 25 September 2010 - 12:00 AM.

[FunkOdyssey]

Ever tried myricetin? It inhibited MLV and HIV reverse transcriptase equally well as quercetin, 100% inhibition at 1mcg/mL. http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1695572

That's definitely something to try, but it's not as cheap as quercetin. I suppose I should also try a different brand of quercetin to see if it makes a difference, I had some natrol stuff lying around.

Also, what brand of EGCG do you use ? because the NOW brand 400mg has only 200mg EGCG in it.

That's the one. On my 400mg EGCG tid scheme, after about a week I was feeling good but experiencing so much energy that I could not fall asleep easily and was waking up in the middle of the night frequently. There were other confounding variables though so I have to test it again. I know I've had no problem with 600mcg EGCG (200mg tid) in the past, so that's an option if I run into that problem again.

I'm also thinking about ginger as a possible alternative to curcumin for NF-KappaB inhibition. They are closely related herbs and do alot of the same things with regard to inflammation, however ginger does not share some of curcumin's issues: killing libido, causing serotonin syndrome in combination with serotonergic drugs, and significant CYP450 interactions. In fact, ginger is regarded as a libido booster. I used NOW ginger root at 1.1g tid (with meals) in the past and it improved my digestive health remarkably. I didn't stay on it long though because I got on this "all cox-2 inhibitors are the devil" kick for awhile...

[Rational Madman]

EGCG and quercetin are a couple of natural anti-viral and specifically anti-retroviral supps you might consider.

I added EGCG, and I'm taking EGCG+Olive Leaf 3x daily. For some reason, quercetin doesn't agree with me.

With the flavonoids, you have to be careful, because they can displace T4 from transthyretin, and thus, reduce tissue concentrations of thyroxine. Or, possibly inhibit thyroid peroxidsase, which consequentially reduces the biosynthesis of thyroid hormones. Anecdotally speaking, I've run into a few people that were unable to tolerate quercetin in particular because of a sub-clinical thyroid disorder. However, quercetin also degrades nitrogen compounds like histamine, whose receptors have an increased firing rate upon waking----a rate that might be reduced in subsets chronic fatigue syndrome sufferers, but the correlation doesn't appear to be strong. Anyway, in your case, modafinil might be indicated, because its activation of orexin neurons stimulates wakefulnes messengers like histamine, dopamine, and norepinephrine. Increases in these messengers is by itself neuroprotective, but it also increases the GSH catalyzer glutathione peroxidase, and through its affinity with D2, administration should lead to a therapeutic increase in neurotrophic factors.

As far as anti-viral supplements go, both the aforementioned supplements are good general supplements, but how great is their anti-viral activity, and is their evidence that they yield therapeutic benefits to chronic fatigue sufferers? As far as anti-viral supplements go, active hexose correlated compounds seem to be substantially more suited for an anti-viral indication, because their primary mechanism is doing just that, promoting the production of macrophages, natural killer cells, and T cells. But, it's a bit overpriced, and because the pathological role of a virus seems more likely to include one of a member of the herpes family, I think Valtrex would be more efficacious. Although the evidence is preliminary, there are some reports of symptom improvement through its mechanistic inhibition of herpes' DNA polymerase. Throw in an antibiotic maybe, and I think the most essential elements of symptom improvement would be in place.

Edited by Rol82, 25 September 2010 - 09:02 AM.

[FunkOdyssey]

As far as anti-viral supplements go, both the aforementioned supplements are good general supplements, but how great is their anti-viral activity, and is their evidence that they yield therapeutic benefits to chronic fatigue sufferers?

Yes for EGCG (1) (2) (3), the others are speculative based on new findings regarding XMRV's association with CFS (a causal role is assumed), factors which activate the virus (androgens, glucocorticoids, NF-KappaB), and susceptibility of MLV's to existing anti-retroviral HIV drugs and supplements.

[Rational Madman]

As far as anti-viral supplements go, both the aforementioned supplements are good general supplements, but how great is their anti-viral activity, and is their evidence that they yield therapeutic benefits to chronic fatigue sufferers?

Yes for EGCG (1) (2) (3), the others are speculative based on new findings regarding XMRV's association with CFS (a causal role is assumed), factors which activate the virus (androgens, glucocorticoids, NF-KappaB), and susceptibility of MLV's to existing anti-retroviral HIV drugs and supplements.

Okay, but that's not exactly my point, which is that a symptomatic improvement is likely to best achieved with a combination of the following prescription drugs or classes: Valtrex, Modafinil, a reverse transcriptase inhibitor, Diflucan, and Minocycline. I just think it's time we move away from the tired alternative medicine paradigm, because it clearly doesn't have a relative rate of success epidemiologically to the prescription alternatives. Since many of us have invested a great deal in the study of supplements, there's an understandable resistance, but the emphasis must shift if we sincerely want to enhance our reputation as a community. Although this shift wouldn't necessarily be free of controversy, nearly all normative innovations attract controversy during their outset.

Edited by Rol82, 26 September 2010 - 12:41 AM.

[FunkOdyssey]

As far as anti-viral supplements go, both the aforementioned supplements are good general supplements, but how great is their anti-viral activity, and is their evidence that they yield therapeutic benefits to chronic fatigue sufferers?

Yes for EGCG (1) (2) (3), the others are speculative based on new findings regarding XMRV's association with CFS (a causal role is assumed), factors which activate the virus (androgens, glucocorticoids, NF-KappaB), and susceptibility of MLV's to existing anti-retroviral HIV drugs and supplements.

Okay, but that's not exactly my point, which is that a symptomatic improvement is likely to best achieved with a combination of the following prescription drugs or classes: Valtrex, Modafinil, a reverse transcriptase inhibitor, Diflucan, and Minocycline. I just think it's time we move away from the tired alternative medicine paradigm, because it clearly doesn't have a relative rate of success epidemiologically to the prescription alternatives. Since many of us have invested a great deal in the study of supplements, there's an understandable resistance, but the emphasis must shift if we sincerely want to enhance our reputation as a community. Although this shift wouldn't necessarily be free of controversy, nearly all normative innovations attract controversy during their outset.

I'm all about things that might work and are very safe, and things that definitely work, aren't safe, but are certainly needed. So if you have proof of activated herpes viruses and want to use valtrex, or you have proof of activated HHV-6 and want to try valcyte, I say knock yourself out. Tetracyclines are pretty safe, so I wouldn't argue if you want to trial one for 30 days and see if it helps, provided you take necessary probiotics along with it. I've said this elsewhere and I'll repeat it here: I don't think the distinction between supplements or drugs serves anyone. If a supplements is effective, it's an unregulated drug. If a supplement is not effective, it's garbage. RE: modafinil, methylphenidate has actually shown more promising results clinically although it remains to be tested in larger trials.

One of the easiest ways to improve a bunch of CFS symptoms is to throw an antidepressant at it, of which a couple of the safest and most effective include St. John's Wort or an SSRI, which are almost interchangeable. No drug/supplement distinction there -- SJW is essentially an unregulated drug.

The CFS world is abuzz with XMRV breakthroughs right now: http://www.forums.ab...lay.php?57-XMRV. If you have any interest in CFS that is the mecca, lots of science-minded folks on that forum tracking the latest and greatest from the researchers hard at work.

[Rational Madman]

As far as anti-viral supplements go, both the aforementioned supplements are good general supplements, but how great is their anti-viral activity, and is their evidence that they yield therapeutic benefits to chronic fatigue sufferers?

Yes for EGCG (1) (2) (3), the others are speculative based on new findings regarding XMRV's association with CFS (a causal role is assumed), factors which activate the virus (androgens, glucocorticoids, NF-KappaB), and susceptibility of MLV's to existing anti-retroviral HIV drugs and supplements.

Okay, but that's not exactly my point, which is that a symptomatic improvement is likely to best achieved with a combination of the following prescription drugs or classes: Valtrex, Modafinil, a reverse transcriptase inhibitor, Diflucan, and Minocycline. I just think it's time we move away from the tired alternative medicine paradigm, because it clearly doesn't have a relative rate of success epidemiologically to the prescription alternatives. Since many of us have invested a great deal in the study of supplements, there's an understandable resistance, but the emphasis must shift if we sincerely want to enhance our reputation as a community. Although this shift wouldn't necessarily be free of controversy, nearly all normative innovations attract controversy during their outset.

I'm all about things that might work and are very safe, and things that definitely work, aren't safe, but are certainly needed. So if you have proof of activated herpes viruses and want to use valtrex, or you have proof of activated HHV-6 and want to try valcyte, I say knock yourself out. Tetracyclines are pretty safe, so I wouldn't argue if you want to trial one for 30 days and see if it helps, provided you take necessary probiotics along with it. I've said this elsewhere and I'll repeat it here: I don't think the distinction between supplements or drugs serves anyone. If a supplements is effective, it's an unregulated drug. If a supplement is not effective, it's garbage. RE: modafinil, methylphenidate has actually shown more promising results clinically although it remains to be tested in larger trials.

One of the easiest ways to improve a bunch of CFS symptoms is to throw an antidepressant at it, of which a couple of the safest and most effective include St. John's Wort or an SSRI, which are almost interchangeable. No drug/supplement distinction there -- SJW is essentially an unregulated drug.

The CFS world is abuzz with XMRV breakthroughs right now: http://www.forums.ab...lay.php?57-XMRV. If you have any interest in CFS that is the mecca, lots of science-minded folks on that forum tracking the latest and greatest from the researchers hard at work.

Oh, thanks, but to be clear, I'm not suffering from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, but rather, I'm just trying to render assistance to users that suffer from disorders in which there is an overlap of symptoms.

Edited by Rol82, 26 September 2010 - 07:04 AM.

[PerfectSeek]

It's great to see a thread like this being a fellow CFS sufferer.

rwac, is there anything you've found that has removed the constant anxiety? I have found ashwagandha and curcumin to work temporarily, but the effect was not sustainable. Taurine also works, but only for a few hours. I've ordered some theanine in the hope that this will help..

Can you also describe your background a little bit? Age, gender, sudden vs gradual onset, etc... I'd be interested.


My current regimen is below:

- Equilibrant (1500mg Blend of: Astragalus, Sophora Root, Olive Leaf, Licorice Root, Shiitake Mushroom, and contains Vit A 2000iu, Calcium 600mg, Selenium 30mg)
- Garlic (Kyolic, 2.4g daily)
- Reishi (2.4g extract daily)
- Vit D (5000iu daily)
- Magnesium Malate, Taurine, as needed for anxiety

Focus is on immunomodulatory and immune stimulation... I have been on equilibrant for around 3-4 months, and reishi for only about 1 month. So far, I have not noticed much improvement other than a few good days.

Being young (23) i am still hoping for a full recovery, but have suffered for 4.5 years now.

[rwac]

I'm Male, 30 yrs old, and I've had CFS or something similar for as long as I can remember, since I was a little kid.
I also got Lyme recently, and got treatment with antibiotics for that.

Have you been tested for Lyme ? Remember any tick bites or anything like that ?

Equilibrant is pretty expensive at $50. You might be able to do better by getting the components yourself, and have more control.

600mg Calcium seems excessive.
Also, Astragalus may be bad for you, if you have Lyme. Be careful.
Even further, vit A+D are fat soluble, so you want to use softgels, and a tablet won't do that.
Atleast take it with fat, and absorption will be better.

As for the anxiety, Zinc, Copper, Manganese(not for Lymies), Se-MethylSelenoCysteine work pretty well.
Have you tried rhodiola ?

Edited by rwac, 28 September 2010 - 02:53 PM.
bah.