124 replies to this topic

[24 Is Ours]

Hello Thorsten.

I've suffered from mood problems for a long time myself. Moods can have a lot to do with what you eat and this was especially the case for me. Cutting out Gluten and Casein might be a really good idea. I'm currently on a gluten-free, dairy-free diet and its been about a month now and the improvement is life changing. It's not easy, and it's very stressful but I'm getting through. If I eat gluten I know right away because repetitive thoughts and depression sets right back in. If you're sensitive to Gluten like I am you'll know right away after cutting it out TOTALLY for even just a few days!


"The peptides from gluten and casein are important because they can react with opiate receptors in the brain, thus mimicking the effects of opiate drugs like heroin and morphine"
This explains my withdrawal tendencies..

--Check out this site: http://www.greatplai...eng/peptide.asp

Checking you're thyroid levels is also very important. You're thyroid releases hormones that are responsible for stabilizing our moods. I personally take some iodine everyday and that seemed to help me out quite a bit!! Iodine is very important because it always flushes out "Bromine, Fluoride, and other heavy metals" in the body. High levels of any of these can result in mood instability/negative thoughts.

http://findarticles....y/ai_100767875/


This is really interesting about bromine:
http://www.breastcan...ancetheory.html

I went through the detox for a month and it wasn't pretty but I've now recovered and I feel wonderful.


Always be careful with Iodine if you supplement it because it could make you hyperthyroid if you take too much. Make sure to get you're levels checked before/after supplementation, if you decide to.

Oh and one more thing...
If you're worried about chemicals and toxic metals in food, there is something called Sodium Alginate. I take 2 capsules about 20 minutes before every meal. This stuff literally binds to chemicals and toxins in our food and helps it pass through our stool. It's very very useful!

If theres anything else I could help you with you could message me!

Dennis

I have eradicated dairy and wheat from my diet recently and I attribute all of my recent improvements down to this. There is still a lot of scope for improvement for me. Each day I have tempting food thrust under my nose and it is hard to say no (also must appear rude sometimes!). I've also noticed how hard it is to eat food that doesn't contain wheat and dairy. If you can't have bread, pasta, spaghetti, milk, cheese and all the foods that contain these in small amounts it doesn't leave a lot. Don't eat red meat, don't eat processed foods, don't consume large amounts of sugar - seriously you don't have much to choose from.

How do you get by? What sort of foods/diets/meals would you recommned? This would be very beneficial if you have any ideas. I try really hard with trying to stay militant and focused with this but sometimes I crumble and part of this is down to the fact that I just don't have enough meal choices that are enough to satisfy me.

Thanks for the links about opioid peptides. I have been aware for some time about that link with dairy and wheat. Food for the zombies!

Interesting what you mention about iodine.

I've never heard of sodium alginate. Something I'll have to look into, thanks. I was using NAC for such purposes - Also zinc for getting rid of mercury but now I don't take any supplements. Doesn't mean I'm not interested in stuff that could still potentially help me though. Thanks again.

Hahaha, Zombie food for sure!

Thats great that you're seeing improvements!
I went through a phase of purchasing almost every supplement available that was supposed to help my symptoms and everything for the most part was a placebo. I basically tricked myself into believing the supplements were making a difference. I wasted tons of money.. !

Anyway,

I have recently purchased a book called "You Won't Believe It's Gluten-Free!" by Roben Ryberg. There is 500 recipes in there to choose from. It's really not easy to avoid gluten, its basically in most of our foods wether used as a thickener, preservative, or spice. Even if I have to make phone calls to the manufacturers (in some cases I do)its not a big deal, if it keeps my health from deteriorating. I've been eating lots more veggies, beans, meat, rice, poultry, and eggs since starting the diet. You're going to have to learn how to read labels if you're going to stick to the diet because there are lots of hidden sources of gluten in a lot of food. I refer to a list of Safe/Unsafe Foods/Ingredients here:

http://www.celiac.co...-&-Ingredients/

I don't think zinc gets rid of mercury in you're body but I did read if you're Zinc levels do become higher than Mercury levels you will notice an improvement in symptoms, but it does not chelate nor mobilize it. Sodium Alginate is known to attract/mobilize these toxic metals (and only toxic metals, it doesn't bind to any minerals our bodys need) and form a gel around them to prevent them from leaking back into the blood stream. Here is a link to a study on MCP (modified citrus pectin) and Alginates significantly lowering patients mercury levels: http://www.health-sp...tion study.pdf. I do not use MCP but I'm well aware of Sulfur being able to mobilize mercury out of the tissues as well and sulfur is high in protein rich food. So basically, taking the sodium alginate with my steak sounds like a good way to kick some mercury ass!

Edited by 24 Is Ours, 01 November 2010 - 01:26 AM.

[John Barleycorn]

(5) Vitamin D. Just do it. There's no reason not to. Purpose: studies linking low Vit D to depression, pain symptoms and mental health. Cheap. Get the D3 version. Better yet, get yourself tested. Unless you work outside for 6 hours a day without a shirt on, you're probably deficient/insufficient.

That font of wisdom otherwise known as Wikipedia seems to think the critical exposure number is more like 20 minutes. Reasons not to do it? Well, it's a fat-soluble vitamin, meaning that it will accumulate. High doses of the water-soluble vits might overload the excretion system, but at least they don't stick around. Another reason is that D will improve calcium absorption, which could be seen as either an advantage or a disadvantage, depending upon your perspective.

[Yearningforyears]

what about trying one of those light therapy lamps?
Is taurine still of any benefit to you, or do you think that it might have worsened your mood in the long run?

[Thorsten3]

Tolerance kind of crept up on me. It's still pretty good for occasional use. I would like to try light therapy especially now it is winter. Cost permitting I'd be willing to give one a try.

[Yearningforyears]

You can buy one of those bright light lamps from philips. They are a bit costly but will keep you illuminated for a lot of winters.
This weekend I was awfully fatigued, but staring into that light for thirty minutes really helped. Maybe I am responding fast to all these kind of things because of my genetic makeup (or vulnerability to the placebo effect!)

Edited by Nicholas, 02 November 2010 - 12:19 AM.

[Thorsten3]

The placebo effect is underrated in my opinion! How much was the light? How is your 'taurine picamilon' combo working out?

[biochemie]

Nah I'm not German mate, Thorsten is my nickname.

I know what you're saying about all of that positive thinking stuff. You have to believe in yourself, this much I know. Err think i'm fairly normal looking - no weird deformaties growing from my head or anything lol
I agree with you up to a point that people who look good seem to get more from life to a certain extent but I think what goes on upstairs counts for a hell of a lot too. I see some right ugly gits with really hot women. They must have something - lots of wit no doubt

Heh, ok.

another thing... how about trying priming i.e. have a printout of words that describe the way you would like to be feeling etc?
http://en.wikipedia....ing_(psychology)
funny thing eh?

besides... i am not shure if you tried mirtazapin... shure did wonders for my sleep and i "survived" quite horrendous things emotionaly speaking quite well while on it.

(now i just use doxyclamin and ocasionaly some 7,5mg mirtazapin when mind is racing and i can't get to sleep)

cheers mate

Remeron was indeed a consideration of mine. Interesting you mention that. If it came with the same level of 'depression elimination' capabilities as the SSRI's and without the anxiety - I for sure would be very interested. Would it have that capability? Not sure. It is described on there as being the opposite to SSRI's and can be used to try and stop serotonin syndrome. Good for apetite, mood, libido and has positive effects on memory. Sounds pretty dopaminergic to me. Even so, pretty interesting. Infact the way it is described on wiki actually makes it sound like something I would very seriously consider. Thanks for bringing this back to my attention.
My current approach is following a certain diet and a low dose of lithium orotate each day. It has had some positive impact but I am still waking each day with my mind in overdrive. SSRI's so far are the only thing that stop this completely. But yeah I can't tolerate the sides. I'm giving lithium a try for 2/3 weeks if I don't notice benfits (with the diet as well) I may decide to go with mirtzapine or a different mood stabalizer.

The problem with Remeron is the weight gain. That thing will make you crave sweets like there's no tomorrow. But everyone reacts differently.

[Yearningforyears]

I bought it a year ago and the price was 2200 swedish krona. Maybe that´s 250 euro I am not sure (but price could be lower since we have pretty high sales tax here).
Effect has come very rapidly. I am actually a bit surprised. Today I began to have some minor racing thoughts and this was after two sessions only (30 minutes in the late morning). At least there is none of that dreaded fatigue left...
Added some zink tablets yesterday, so maybe they are contributing in some way too?
Things have been good with the taurine and picamilon combo, but I have to say that the dosage has been increased and taurine is not very noticeable anymore. On a mood level everything is pretty good, but this comfortable levelled out sedation unfortunately has been dissatisfying the last days. Perhaps lowering the picamilon dose could be smart, since the dose feels more as a stimulating one now. There is another interesting amino acid that I would absolutely love to try. L-tryptohan. It seems pretty potent (and pumpkin seeds have never dissapointed before)
L-theanine was also interesting to take alongside picamilon. It added some motivation and really nice relaxation, but tolerance builds pretty fast with this too (plus mood cycling could make things change as well).

[Thorsten3]

I bought it a year ago and the price was 2200 swedish krona. Maybe that´s 250 euro I am not sure (but price could be lower since we have pretty high sales tax here).
Effect has come very rapidly. I am actually a bit surprised. Today I began to have some minor racing thoughts and this was after two sessions only (30 minutes in the late morning). At least there is none of that dreaded fatigue left...
Added some zink tablets yesterday, so maybe they are contributing in some way too?
Things have been good with the taurine and picamilon combo, but I have to say that the dosage has been increased and taurine is not very noticeable anymore. On a mood level everything is pretty good, but this comfortable levelled out sedation unfortunately has been dissatisfying the last days. Perhaps lowering the picamilon dose could be smart, since the dose feels more as a stimulating one now. There is another interesting amino acid that I would absolutely love to try. L-tryptohan. It seems pretty potent (and pumpkin seeds have never dissapointed before)
L-theanine was also interesting to take alongside picamilon. It added some motivation and really nice relaxation, but tolerance builds pretty fast with this too (plus mood cycling could make things change as well).

I found Tryptophan to be good for sleep but I only used it in the evening. Maybe it would have beneficial effects if taken during the day in low doses? I was always wary of taking too much of it though because it induced overkill in sedation! 5HTP on the other hand was just a more brutal version of it, which for me, didn't feel pleasant at all. Tryptophan was lighter and had a more gradual onset, although lasted longer in effects and had more punch if you overdid it.

So you're from Sweden then? I always thought you were from the US?

Yes those lamps are not cheap. I'd love to get one but on my list of priorities it is behind a few things at the moment!

Ahhh so you've noticed the stimulating qualities of Picamilon.. I happen to really enjoy it. It almost borders on manic type effects for me but not in a crazy, chaotic way. I am very productive whilst on it! I have stopped taking it completely though for the time being whilst my quest continues for curing my illness. I am currently having success with diet alone, but I have rarely scratched the surface on what is achievable with that. There is much progress to be made in this area.

Hey you want to try hemp seeds too. They are delicious and very good for mood boosting. They have high tryptophan - low phenylalanine content (therefore good for 5HT production).

Edited by Thorsten, 02 November 2010 - 08:40 PM.

[Thorsten3]

Nah I'm not German mate, Thorsten is my nickname.

I know what you're saying about all of that positive thinking stuff. You have to believe in yourself, this much I know. Err think i'm fairly normal looking - no weird deformaties growing from my head or anything lol
I agree with you up to a point that people who look good seem to get more from life to a certain extent but I think what goes on upstairs counts for a hell of a lot too. I see some right ugly gits with really hot women. They must have something - lots of wit no doubt

Heh, ok.

another thing... how about trying priming i.e. have a printout of words that describe the way you would like to be feeling etc?
http://en.wikipedia....ing_(psychology)
funny thing eh?

besides... i am not shure if you tried mirtazapin... shure did wonders for my sleep and i "survived" quite horrendous things emotionaly speaking quite well while on it.

(now i just use doxyclamin and ocasionaly some 7,5mg mirtazapin when mind is racing and i can't get to sleep)

cheers mate

Remeron was indeed a consideration of mine. Interesting you mention that. If it came with the same level of 'depression elimination' capabilities as the SSRI's and without the anxiety - I for sure would be very interested. Would it have that capability? Not sure. It is described on there as being the opposite to SSRI's and can be used to try and stop serotonin syndrome. Good for apetite, mood, libido and has positive effects on memory. Sounds pretty dopaminergic to me. Even so, pretty interesting. Infact the way it is described on wiki actually makes it sound like something I would very seriously consider. Thanks for bringing this back to my attention.
My current approach is following a certain diet and a low dose of lithium orotate each day. It has had some positive impact but I am still waking each day with my mind in overdrive. SSRI's so far are the only thing that stop this completely. But yeah I can't tolerate the sides. I'm giving lithium a try for 2/3 weeks if I don't notice benfits (with the diet as well) I may decide to go with mirtzapine or a different mood stabalizer.

The problem with Remeron is the weight gain. That thing will make you crave sweets like there's no tomorrow. But everyone reacts differently.

I don't gain weight very well. This would actually be a positive thing if I decided to go with it.

[tlm884]

I've tried:

1. Citalopram @20mg per day. Severe anxiety/agitation so never got past week two.
2. Paraoxetine @20mg per day. Same as above.
3. Trivastal (can't remember dosage). Made me a bit robotic.
4. Tianeptine @12.5mg thrice daily. Helped mood but didn't stop my thought patterns. If anything probably increased it.
5. Agomelatine @25mg. This kind of worked but I got sick of being in that constant state of arousal. The sleep effect didn't last and I ended up waking many times during the night.
6. SJW Perika @300mg twice daily. I had a postive reaction to it but I lost interest. I am currently giving it another go (gonna trial it properly for a few weeks) as I have decided against going the SSRI route. It does still interest me how each SSRI I have ever taken stops these obsessive damaging thought loops. Is there anything else out there that does this?

Looking at this list I don't think I have really explored much in the way of anti-depressants.

I may have missed this reading the forum but have you considered bipolar type II. Agitation and anxiety on SSRIs and in your case more then one is usually a sign of a mood disorder. Have you been on a mood stabalizer such as lithium, valproate, carbamezapine, topomariate, gabapentin (controversial), pregablin (conterversial), lamotrigine, abilify?

I might give picamilon or phenibut a go for a few days and see how you feel. If you start to cheer up on these I would reccomend getting on something GABAergic.

[Rational Madman]

Tolerance kind of crept up on me. It's still pretty good for occasional use. I would like to try light therapy especially now it is winter. Cost permitting I'd be willing to give one a try.

Okay, but have you been diagnosed with seasonal affective disorder?

[Rational Madman]

I bought it a year ago and the price was 2200 swedish krona. Maybe that´s 250 euro I am not sure (but price could be lower since we have pretty high sales tax here).
Effect has come very rapidly. I am actually a bit surprised. Today I began to have some minor racing thoughts and this was after two sessions only (30 minutes in the late morning). At least there is none of that dreaded fatigue left...
Added some zink tablets yesterday, so maybe they are contributing in some way too?
Things have been good with the taurine and picamilon combo, but I have to say that the dosage has been increased and taurine is not very noticeable anymore. On a mood level everything is pretty good, but this comfortable levelled out sedation unfortunately has been dissatisfying the last days. Perhaps lowering the picamilon dose could be smart, since the dose feels more as a stimulating one now. There is another interesting amino acid that I would absolutely love to try. L-tryptohan. It seems pretty potent (and pumpkin seeds have never dissapointed before)
L-theanine was also interesting to take alongside picamilon. It added some motivation and really nice relaxation, but tolerance builds pretty fast with this too (plus mood cycling could make things change as well).

I found Tryptophan to be good for sleep but I only used it in the evening. Maybe it would have beneficial effects if taken during the day in low doses? I was always wary of taking too much of it though because it induced overkill in sedation! 5HTP on the other hand was just a more brutal version of it, which for me, didn't feel pleasant at all. Tryptophan was lighter and had a more gradual onset, although lasted longer in effects and had more punch if you overdid it.

So you're from Sweden then? I always thought you were from the US?

Yes those lamps are not cheap. I'd love to get one but on my list of priorities it is behind a few things at the moment!

Ahhh so you've noticed the stimulating qualities of Picamilon.. I happen to really enjoy it. It almost borders on manic type effects for me but not in a crazy, chaotic way. I am very productive whilst on it! I have stopped taking it completely though for the time being whilst my quest continues for curing my illness. I am currently having success with diet alone, but I have rarely scratched the surface on what is achievable with that. There is much progress to be made in this area.

Hey you want to try hemp seeds too. They are delicious and very good for mood boosting. They have high tryptophan - low phenylalanine content (therefore good for 5HT production).

Either Mirtazapine or Trazodone should help with sleep.

[Rational Madman]

I've tried:

1. Citalopram @20mg per day. Severe anxiety/agitation so never got past week two.
2. Paraoxetine @20mg per day. Same as above.
3. Trivastal (can't remember dosage). Made me a bit robotic.
4. Tianeptine @12.5mg thrice daily. Helped mood but didn't stop my thought patterns. If anything probably increased it.
5. Agomelatine @25mg. This kind of worked but I got sick of being in that constant state of arousal. The sleep effect didn't last and I ended up waking many times during the night.
6. SJW Perika @300mg twice daily. I had a postive reaction to it but I lost interest. I am currently giving it another go (gonna trial it properly for a few weeks) as I have decided against going the SSRI route. It does still interest me how each SSRI I have ever taken stops these obsessive damaging thought loops. Is there anything else out there that does this?

Looking at this list I don't think I have really explored much in the way of anti-depressants.

I may have missed this reading the forum but have you considered bipolar type II. Agitation and anxiety on SSRIs and in your case more then one is usually a sign of a mood disorder. Have you been on a mood stabalizer such as lithium, valproate, carbamezapine, topomariate, gabapentin (controversial), pregablin (conterversial), lamotrigine, abilify?

I might give picamilon or phenibut a go for a few days and see how you feel. If you start to cheer up on these I would reccomend getting on something GABAergic.

Pregablin and gabapentin are only controversial for their application against mood disorders, but overall, they're still moderately effective broad-spectrum drugs.

[Thorsten3]

Tolerance kind of crept up on me. It's still pretty good for occasional use. I would like to try light therapy especially now it is winter. Cost permitting I'd be willing to give one a try.

Okay, but have you been diagnosed with seasonal affective disorder?

Not really but I do notice I am a lot more postive when the sun is out. Grey sky is not good for me. It might not be the cure but it might help me. As I say though cost will probably prevent me from getting a lamp anytime soon.

[Rational Madman]

Nah I'm not German mate, Thorsten is my nickname.

I know what you're saying about all of that positive thinking stuff. You have to believe in yourself, this much I know. Err think i'm fairly normal looking - no weird deformaties growing from my head or anything lol
I agree with you up to a point that people who look good seem to get more from life to a certain extent but I think what goes on upstairs counts for a hell of a lot too. I see some right ugly gits with really hot women. They must have something - lots of wit no doubt

Heh, ok.

another thing... how about trying priming i.e. have a printout of words that describe the way you would like to be feeling etc?
http://en.wikipedia....ing_(psychology)
funny thing eh?

besides... i am not shure if you tried mirtazapin... shure did wonders for my sleep and i "survived" quite horrendous things emotionaly speaking quite well while on it.

(now i just use doxyclamin and ocasionaly some 7,5mg mirtazapin when mind is racing and i can't get to sleep)

cheers mate

Remeron was indeed a consideration of mine. Interesting you mention that. If it came with the same level of 'depression elimination' capabilities as the SSRI's and without the anxiety - I for sure would be very interested. Would it have that capability? Not sure. It is described on there as being the opposite to SSRI's and can be used to try and stop serotonin syndrome. Good for apetite, mood, libido and has positive effects on memory. Sounds pretty dopaminergic to me. Even so, pretty interesting. Infact the way it is described on wiki actually makes it sound like something I would very seriously consider. Thanks for bringing this back to my attention.
My current approach is following a certain diet and a low dose of lithium orotate each day. It has had some positive impact but I am still waking each day with my mind in overdrive. SSRI's so far are the only thing that stop this completely. But yeah I can't tolerate the sides. I'm giving lithium a try for 2/3 weeks if I don't notice benfits (with the diet as well) I may decide to go with mirtzapine or a different mood stabalizer.

The problem with Remeron is the weight gain. That thing will make you crave sweets like there's no tomorrow. But everyone reacts differently.

Yes, but at least the side effect isn't metabolically induced, and can be controlled with other agents.

[Thorsten3]

I've tried:

1. Citalopram @20mg per day. Severe anxiety/agitation so never got past week two.
2. Paraoxetine @20mg per day. Same as above.
3. Trivastal (can't remember dosage). Made me a bit robotic.
4. Tianeptine @12.5mg thrice daily. Helped mood but didn't stop my thought patterns. If anything probably increased it.
5. Agomelatine @25mg. This kind of worked but I got sick of being in that constant state of arousal. The sleep effect didn't last and I ended up waking many times during the night.
6. SJW Perika @300mg twice daily. I had a postive reaction to it but I lost interest. I am currently giving it another go (gonna trial it properly for a few weeks) as I have decided against going the SSRI route. It does still interest me how each SSRI I have ever taken stops these obsessive damaging thought loops. Is there anything else out there that does this?

Looking at this list I don't think I have really explored much in the way of anti-depressants.

I may have missed this reading the forum but have you considered bipolar type II. Agitation and anxiety on SSRIs and in your case more then one is usually a sign of a mood disorder. Have you been on a mood stabalizer such as lithium, valproate, carbamezapine, topomariate, gabapentin (controversial), pregablin (conterversial), lamotrigine, abilify?

I might give picamilon or phenibut a go for a few days and see how you feel. If you start to cheer up on these I would reccomend getting on something GABAergic.

Pregablin and gabapentin are only controversial for their application against mood disorders, but overall, they're still moderately effective broad-spectrum drugs.

Is tolerance not an issue with those? I have heard of the wonderful effects on sleep that gabapentin has (that alone entices me) but I am not totally convinced that GABA based medicines don't come with rebound issues. Even Picamilon can have that effect for me sometimes and that one is fairly benign in comparison.

[Rational Madman]

I bought it a year ago and the price was 2200 swedish krona. Maybe that´s 250 euro I am not sure (but price could be lower since we have pretty high sales tax here).
Effect has come very rapidly. I am actually a bit surprised. Today I began to have some minor racing thoughts and this was after two sessions only (30 minutes in the late morning). At least there is none of that dreaded fatigue left...
Added some zink tablets yesterday, so maybe they are contributing in some way too?
Things have been good with the taurine and picamilon combo, but I have to say that the dosage has been increased and taurine is not very noticeable anymore. On a mood level everything is pretty good, but this comfortable levelled out sedation unfortunately has been dissatisfying the last days. Perhaps lowering the picamilon dose could be smart, since the dose feels more as a stimulating one now. There is another interesting amino acid that I would absolutely love to try. L-tryptohan. It seems pretty potent (and pumpkin seeds have never dissapointed before)
L-theanine was also interesting to take alongside picamilon. It added some motivation and really nice relaxation, but tolerance builds pretty fast with this too (plus mood cycling could make things change as well).

I found Tryptophan to be good for sleep but I only used it in the evening. Maybe it would have beneficial effects if taken during the day in low doses? I was always wary of taking too much of it though because it induced overkill in sedation! 5HTP on the other hand was just a more brutal version of it, which for me, didn't feel pleasant at all. Tryptophan was lighter and had a more gradual onset, although lasted longer in effects and had more punch if you overdid it.

So you're from Sweden then? I always thought you were from the US?

Yes those lamps are not cheap. I'd love to get one but on my list of priorities it is behind a few things at the moment!

Ahhh so you've noticed the stimulating qualities of Picamilon.. I happen to really enjoy it. It almost borders on manic type effects for me but not in a crazy, chaotic way. I am very productive whilst on it! I have stopped taking it completely though for the time being whilst my quest continues for curing my illness. I am currently having success with diet alone, but I have rarely scratched the surface on what is achievable with that. There is much progress to be made in this area.

Hey you want to try hemp seeds too. They are delicious and very good for mood boosting. They have high tryptophan - low phenylalanine content (therefore good for 5HT production).

5-hydroxytryptophan has considerable difficulty passing the blood-brain barrier, leaving an unhealthy amount of serotonin in your system. Drugs like Cabidopa are needed for its transport, but good luck getting it prescribed.

[Thorsten3]

I bought it a year ago and the price was 2200 swedish krona. Maybe that´s 250 euro I am not sure (but price could be lower since we have pretty high sales tax here).
Effect has come very rapidly. I am actually a bit surprised. Today I began to have some minor racing thoughts and this was after two sessions only (30 minutes in the late morning). At least there is none of that dreaded fatigue left...
Added some zink tablets yesterday, so maybe they are contributing in some way too?
Things have been good with the taurine and picamilon combo, but I have to say that the dosage has been increased and taurine is not very noticeable anymore. On a mood level everything is pretty good, but this comfortable levelled out sedation unfortunately has been dissatisfying the last days. Perhaps lowering the picamilon dose could be smart, since the dose feels more as a stimulating one now. There is another interesting amino acid that I would absolutely love to try. L-tryptohan. It seems pretty potent (and pumpkin seeds have never dissapointed before)
L-theanine was also interesting to take alongside picamilon. It added some motivation and really nice relaxation, but tolerance builds pretty fast with this too (plus mood cycling could make things change as well).

I found Tryptophan to be good for sleep but I only used it in the evening. Maybe it would have beneficial effects if taken during the day in low doses? I was always wary of taking too much of it though because it induced overkill in sedation! 5HTP on the other hand was just a more brutal version of it, which for me, didn't feel pleasant at all. Tryptophan was lighter and had a more gradual onset, although lasted longer in effects and had more punch if you overdid it.

So you're from Sweden then? I always thought you were from the US?

Yes those lamps are not cheap. I'd love to get one but on my list of priorities it is behind a few things at the moment!

Ahhh so you've noticed the stimulating qualities of Picamilon.. I happen to really enjoy it. It almost borders on manic type effects for me but not in a crazy, chaotic way. I am very productive whilst on it! I have stopped taking it completely though for the time being whilst my quest continues for curing my illness. I am currently having success with diet alone, but I have rarely scratched the surface on what is achievable with that. There is much progress to be made in this area.

Hey you want to try hemp seeds too. They are delicious and very good for mood boosting. They have high tryptophan - low phenylalanine content (therefore good for 5HT production).

Either Mirtazapine or Trazodone should help with sleep.

Thanks I was considering Remeron. I have heard of Trazodone but I'd need to do more reading on it.

[Rational Madman]

I've tried:

1. Citalopram @20mg per day. Severe anxiety/agitation so never got past week two.
2. Paraoxetine @20mg per day. Same as above.
3. Trivastal (can't remember dosage). Made me a bit robotic.
4. Tianeptine @12.5mg thrice daily. Helped mood but didn't stop my thought patterns. If anything probably increased it.
5. Agomelatine @25mg. This kind of worked but I got sick of being in that constant state of arousal. The sleep effect didn't last and I ended up waking many times during the night.
6. SJW Perika @300mg twice daily. I had a postive reaction to it but I lost interest. I am currently giving it another go (gonna trial it properly for a few weeks) as I have decided against going the SSRI route. It does still interest me how each SSRI I have ever taken stops these obsessive damaging thought loops. Is there anything else out there that does this?

Looking at this list I don't think I have really explored much in the way of anti-depressants.

I may have missed this reading the forum but have you considered bipolar type II. Agitation and anxiety on SSRIs and in your case more then one is usually a sign of a mood disorder. Have you been on a mood stabalizer such as lithium, valproate, carbamezapine, topomariate, gabapentin (controversial), pregablin (conterversial), lamotrigine, abilify?

I might give picamilon or phenibut a go for a few days and see how you feel. If you start to cheer up on these I would reccomend getting on something GABAergic.

Pregablin and gabapentin are only controversial for their application against mood disorders, but overall, they're still moderately effective broad-spectrum drugs.

Is tolerance not an issue with those? I have heard of the wonderful effects on sleep that gabapentin has (that alone entices me) but I am not totally convinced that GABA based medicines don't come with rebound issues. Even Picamilon can have that effect for me sometimes and that one is fairly benign in comparison.

Tolerance can indeed be an issue, but the greater problem is the mechanism and strength of the drugs.

[shaggy]

Nah I'm not German mate, Thorsten is my nickname.

I know what you're saying about all of that positive thinking stuff. You have to believe in yourself, this much I know. Err think i'm fairly normal looking - no weird deformaties growing from my head or anything lol
I agree with you up to a point that people who look good seem to get more from life to a certain extent but I think what goes on upstairs counts for a hell of a lot too. I see some right ugly gits with really hot women. They must have something - lots of wit no doubt

Heh, ok.

another thing... how about trying priming i.e. have a printout of words that describe the way you would like to be feeling etc?
http://en.wikipedia....ing_(psychology)
funny thing eh?

besides... i am not shure if you tried mirtazapin... shure did wonders for my sleep and i "survived" quite horrendous things emotionaly speaking quite well while on it.

(now i just use doxyclamin and ocasionaly some 7,5mg mirtazapin when mind is racing and i can't get to sleep)

cheers mate

Remeron was indeed a consideration of mine. Interesting you mention that. If it came with the same level of 'depression elimination' capabilities as the SSRI's and without the anxiety - I for sure would be very interested. Would it have that capability? Not sure. It is described on there as being the opposite to SSRI's and can be used to try and stop serotonin syndrome. Good for apetite, mood, libido and has positive effects on memory. Sounds pretty dopaminergic to me. Even so, pretty interesting. Infact the way it is described on wiki actually makes it sound like something I would very seriously consider. Thanks for bringing this back to my attention.
My current approach is following a certain diet and a low dose of lithium orotate each day. It has had some positive impact but I am still waking each day with my mind in overdrive. SSRI's so far are the only thing that stop this completely. But yeah I can't tolerate the sides. I'm giving lithium a try for 2/3 weeks if I don't notice benfits (with the diet as well) I may decide to go with mirtzapine or a different mood stabalizer.

The problem with Remeron is the weight gain. That thing will make you crave sweets like there's no tomorrow. But everyone reacts differently.

Yes, but at least the side effect isn't metabolically induced, and can be controlled with other agents.

What would you suggest, I've put on 10 pounds in 6 weeks so far!

Also, doesn't mirtazapine play havoc with your lipid profile, particularly tryglycerides.... Maybe this is due to the addional sweet stuff people eat?

[Rational Madman]

Tolerance kind of crept up on me. It's still pretty good for occasional use. I would like to try light therapy especially now it is winter. Cost permitting I'd be willing to give one a try.

Okay, but have you been diagnosed with seasonal affective disorder?

Not really but I do notice I am a lot more postive when the sun is out. Grey sky is not good for me. It might not be the cure but it might help me. As I say though cost will probably prevent me from getting a lamp anytime soon.

Sun lamps have moderate efficacy, but they're still undergoing examination, and I wouldn't expect any miracles if you purchase one of the low end devices produced by companies like Phillips.

[Thorsten3]

I've tried:

1. Citalopram @20mg per day. Severe anxiety/agitation so never got past week two.
2. Paraoxetine @20mg per day. Same as above.
3. Trivastal (can't remember dosage). Made me a bit robotic.
4. Tianeptine @12.5mg thrice daily. Helped mood but didn't stop my thought patterns. If anything probably increased it.
5. Agomelatine @25mg. This kind of worked but I got sick of being in that constant state of arousal. The sleep effect didn't last and I ended up waking many times during the night.
6. SJW Perika @300mg twice daily. I had a postive reaction to it but I lost interest. I am currently giving it another go (gonna trial it properly for a few weeks) as I have decided against going the SSRI route. It does still interest me how each SSRI I have ever taken stops these obsessive damaging thought loops. Is there anything else out there that does this?

Looking at this list I don't think I have really explored much in the way of anti-depressants.

I may have missed this reading the forum but have you considered bipolar type II. Agitation and anxiety on SSRIs and in your case more then one is usually a sign of a mood disorder. Have you been on a mood stabalizer such as lithium, valproate, carbamezapine, topomariate, gabapentin (controversial), pregablin (conterversial), lamotrigine, abilify?

I might give picamilon or phenibut a go for a few days and see how you feel. If you start to cheer up on these I would reccomend getting on something GABAergic.

I always feel cheery on GABA based drugs. Thanks for your advice though. I tried Lithium but it was fairly benign in its effects... I was taking methyl folate at the time and the anti-depressant effect I found at the time was down to this alone (I discovered). Lithium on its own... I'm not sure what it was doing, it dulled me if anything.

[Rational Madman]

Nah I'm not German mate, Thorsten is my nickname.

I know what you're saying about all of that positive thinking stuff. You have to believe in yourself, this much I know. Err think i'm fairly normal looking - no weird deformaties growing from my head or anything lol
I agree with you up to a point that people who look good seem to get more from life to a certain extent but I think what goes on upstairs counts for a hell of a lot too. I see some right ugly gits with really hot women. They must have something - lots of wit no doubt

Heh, ok.

another thing... how about trying priming i.e. have a printout of words that describe the way you would like to be feeling etc?
http://en.wikipedia....ing_(psychology)
funny thing eh?

besides... i am not shure if you tried mirtazapin... shure did wonders for my sleep and i "survived" quite horrendous things emotionaly speaking quite well while on it.

(now i just use doxyclamin and ocasionaly some 7,5mg mirtazapin when mind is racing and i can't get to sleep)

cheers mate

Remeron was indeed a consideration of mine. Interesting you mention that. If it came with the same level of 'depression elimination' capabilities as the SSRI's and without the anxiety - I for sure would be very interested. Would it have that capability? Not sure. It is described on there as being the opposite to SSRI's and can be used to try and stop serotonin syndrome. Good for apetite, mood, libido and has positive effects on memory. Sounds pretty dopaminergic to me. Even so, pretty interesting. Infact the way it is described on wiki actually makes it sound like something I would very seriously consider. Thanks for bringing this back to my attention.
My current approach is following a certain diet and a low dose of lithium orotate each day. It has had some positive impact but I am still waking each day with my mind in overdrive. SSRI's so far are the only thing that stop this completely. But yeah I can't tolerate the sides. I'm giving lithium a try for 2/3 weeks if I don't notice benfits (with the diet as well) I may decide to go with mirtzapine or a different mood stabalizer.

The problem with Remeron is the weight gain. That thing will make you crave sweets like there's no tomorrow. But everyone reacts differently.

Yes, but at least the side effect isn't metabolically induced, and can be controlled with other agents.

What would you suggest, I've put on 10 pounds in 6 weeks so far!

Also, doesn't mirtazapine play havoc with your lipid profile, particularly tryglycerides.... Maybe this is due to the addional sweet stuff people eat?

Consider appetite suppressants like amphetamine salts, Atomoxetine, and Bupropion.

[Thorsten3]

Nah I'm not German mate, Thorsten is my nickname.

I know what you're saying about all of that positive thinking stuff. You have to believe in yourself, this much I know. Err think i'm fairly normal looking - no weird deformaties growing from my head or anything lol
I agree with you up to a point that people who look good seem to get more from life to a certain extent but I think what goes on upstairs counts for a hell of a lot too. I see some right ugly gits with really hot women. They must have something - lots of wit no doubt

Heh, ok.

another thing... how about trying priming i.e. have a printout of words that describe the way you would like to be feeling etc?
http://en.wikipedia....ing_(psychology)
funny thing eh?

besides... i am not shure if you tried mirtazapin... shure did wonders for my sleep and i "survived" quite horrendous things emotionaly speaking quite well while on it.

(now i just use doxyclamin and ocasionaly some 7,5mg mirtazapin when mind is racing and i can't get to sleep)

cheers mate

Remeron was indeed a consideration of mine. Interesting you mention that. If it came with the same level of 'depression elimination' capabilities as the SSRI's and without the anxiety - I for sure would be very interested. Would it have that capability? Not sure. It is described on there as being the opposite to SSRI's and can be used to try and stop serotonin syndrome. Good for apetite, mood, libido and has positive effects on memory. Sounds pretty dopaminergic to me. Even so, pretty interesting. Infact the way it is described on wiki actually makes it sound like something I would very seriously consider. Thanks for bringing this back to my attention.
My current approach is following a certain diet and a low dose of lithium orotate each day. It has had some positive impact but I am still waking each day with my mind in overdrive. SSRI's so far are the only thing that stop this completely. But yeah I can't tolerate the sides. I'm giving lithium a try for 2/3 weeks if I don't notice benfits (with the diet as well) I may decide to go with mirtzapine or a different mood stabalizer.

The problem with Remeron is the weight gain. That thing will make you crave sweets like there's no tomorrow. But everyone reacts differently.

Yes, but at least the side effect isn't metabolically induced, and can be controlled with other agents.

What would you suggest, I've put on 10 pounds in 6 weeks so far!

Also, doesn't mirtazapine play havoc with your lipid profile, particularly tryglycerides.... Maybe this is due to the addional sweet stuff people eat?

Yo Shag what's your anecdotal experience with remeron? Is it good for you?
As for the sweet stuff dos this stuff give you cravings for sugar or is it food in general? As I said in the thread earlier this sounds pretty dopamanergic. I noticed the same with agomelatine with regards to increase in appetite and sexual desire.

[shaggy]

Yo Shag what's your anecdotal experience with remeron? Is it good for you?
As for the sweet stuff dos this stuff give you cravings for sugar or is it food in general? As I said in the thread earlier this sounds pretty dopamanergic. I noticed the same with agomelatine with regards to increase in appetite and sexual desire.

It gives me tremendous hunger pangs, reminds me of the "munchies" I got from smoking weed in my younger days.
Everything seems to taste better too, particularly sugary sweet things.

I hope I don't need to use it for long, started CBT for my panic attacks which I believe has caused or is certainly linked to my depression.

[Wurzel Bagman]

Try out 3 grams of L-Tyrosine twice a day along with a vitamin B complex and vitamin C on an empty stomach. This has been quite mood/energy/motivation/empathy/organizational skills boosting for me.

It also appears to boost the effects of piracetam for me. Piracetam acts on both acetylcholine and dopamine systems so taking choline and dopamine precursors seems to make sense to me. Does anyone have any experiences to share with tyrosine in high doses along with various nootropics like piracetam/aniracetam etc?

Edited by SynapticWeasel, 03 November 2010 - 05:12 AM.

[Thorsten3]

tyrosine makes me feel wired and on edge. I've never heard of it complimenting the racetams before. I know some people have had success taking L-glutamine with piracetam. Unfortunately Piracetam increases my depression. Ani on the other hand felt like some weird kind of drug. Very heavy sort of effect.

[John Barleycorn]

I may have missed this reading the forum but have you considered bipolar type II. Agitation and anxiety on SSRIs and in your case more then one is usually a sign of a mood disorder. Have you been on a mood stabalizer such as lithium, valproate, carbamezapine, topomariate, gabapentin (controversial), pregablin (conterversial), lamotrigine, abilify?

I might give picamilon or phenibut a go for a few days and see how you feel. If you start to cheer up on these I would reccomend getting on something GABAergic.

Is tolerance not an issue with those? I have heard of the wonderful effects on sleep that gabapentin has (that alone entices me) but I am not totally convinced that GABA based medicines don't come with rebound issues. Even Picamilon can have that effect for me sometimes and that one is fairly benign in comparison.

The broader issue is not exclusively about GABA, but the neural excitation/inhibition balance. Gabapentin and Pregablin are not simply GABAergic, but are also Ca++ channel blockers, which gives them some of the properties of NMDA antagonists like Memantine. On the minerals front, Mg++ and Zn++ are also Ca++ channel blockers, but it is controversial whether supplements merely correct deficiencies or can flood the brain like drugs.

Similarly, mood stabilisers like Valproate are Na+ channel blockers, with the corresponding minerals analogue being Li+. (This involves loads of simplifications, but you get the idea). Li+ also seems to act as a NMDA antagonist for reasons that escape me, and I'm not even sure whether it is regarded as an essential trace element.

Another way of skinning the inhibition cat is to antagonise noradrenaline. Beta blockers work centrally and peripherally, whereas agents like Clonidine work centrally only. There are tolerance and rebound issues with chronic usage here.

Lastly, 5-HT1A agonism can be anxiolytic, with Buspirone being the most specific. The nice part is that tolerance doesn't seem to be a big problem, but the downside is that it seems to be tricky to get it to work properly.

The main point I'm trying to make is that your options are not limited to habit-forming tranqs.

[tlm884]

Phenibut can also be quite addictive. I only suggested them to increase GABA over the short term as a way to "test" wheter you have a GABA deficiency. If picamilon or phenibut decrease your symptoms over a few weeks I would suggest talking to your doctor about mood stabalizers.

I have bipolar type II and the only GABAergic drug that works for me is gabapentin. Valporate, Topomirate, and Carbamezapine made me "stupid" and groggy. I wanted to try keppra but gabapentin worked so I havent.

As well, tryptophan supplmentation helps amazingly with sleep. As well as gabapentin will deepen sleep over the long term. I also have a seasonal compenent to my bipolar depression so I treat it with wellbutrin and tanning (i know its bad for me but in the short term it helps) I may look into light therapy.