5 replies to this topic

[sebr.porte]

Now I don't have much knowledge when it comes to pharmaceuticals or dietary supplements so I'm afraid I don't have all that much to contribute to this ongoing discussion. That said I do have great interest in the development of this sup., as an enthusiastic health nut. I took a print of the formulation to my nutritionist to get her opinion and she said that it offers remarkably high doses of some nutrients. Mind you she did not elaborate, only that it offered generally high doses to people that don't have specialized diets.

Now as I mentioned I am no expert, but as a noob I do have my questions. Namely what sort of diet must one have to cater to the nutritional value of this supplement, so that the DV is not exceeded?

And also; What is the benefit of taking this supplement over managing your diet to eating foods that contain the listed vitamins and minerals? Are they not all found in common foods?

Edited by sebr.porte, 19 October 2010 - 05:39 PM.

[pamojja]

What is the benefit of taking this supplement over managing your diet to eating foods that contain the listed vitamins and minerals? Are they not all found in common foods?

As an ignorant myself I started to enter everything I eat in an excel table and let it calculate most my vitamin and mineral intake as a vegetarian 2 years ago. It was so eye-opening to see how many nutrients were short even of the current RDA (which for some of the nutrients is set as low to prevent grossest malnutrition, like scurvy or pellagra. And far from providing optimal health). So I added some foods which contained the most of those missing. However, this was simply not a sustainable diet long therm.

Learning more about nutrition and therefore leaving out what I formerly considered healthy, like whole grains (carbs) or dried fruits (fructose), my nutrients intake even worsened.

I believe any nutritionist claiming that all nutrients would be easily obtained through regular diet simply hasn't yet every gram of food weighted and calculated it through.

There is such free software like cronometer for tracking your intake and not get fooled again.

[ajnast4r]

she said that it offers remarkably high doses of some nutrients. Mind you she did not elaborate, only that it offered generally high doses to people that don't have specialized diets.

Now as I mentioned I am no expert, but as a noob I do have my questions. Namely what sort of diet must one have to cater to the nutritional value of this supplement, so that the DV is not exceeded?

And also; What is the benefit of taking this supplement over managing your diet to eating foods that contain the listed vitamins and minerals? Are they not all found in common foods?

I am 3.5 years deep into a nutrition degree and major contributor to the formulation of the supplement. I can assure you that the dosage fits well within the safe, established limits for micronutrient intake. The dosing and forms in the supplement adhere to the most current nutritional science... no BS, no kitchen sinks, no iffy ingredients... everything is backed by solid science. the percentages appear to be weird because the amounts are listed according to the %DV, which are generalized amounts based on a 2000kcal diet, and for all our purposes are irrelevant and can be ignored. what you should be concerned with, is the modern DRI's, which is what we used in our formulating.

I'm not sure why your 'nutritionist' would say there are 'remarkably high' levels of anything in the supplement... that is, at best, a grossly ignorant statement. the only thing that would even be considered mildly high is the b12...and that is still at a very benign level. almost every nutrient in vimmortal is set to the US DRI's... as a general rule of thumb you dont want to exceed 100-300% of the DRI, and that changes depending on the nutrient. I was taught that the max levels of most water soluble vitamins in healthy people shouldn't exceed 300%, fat solubles are 200-300% depending on which one, minerals vary from 100 to 300% depending on which one.

my suggestion would be track your diet in cron-o-meter for 2-4 weeks, look at the averages and then adjust your dosing of vimmortal to fill in the holes. if you need more specific help, just shoot me a pm.

[sebr.porte]

What is the benefit of taking this supplement over managing your diet to eating foods that contain the listed vitamins and minerals? Are they not all found in common foods?

Learning more about nutrition and therefore leaving out what I formerly considered healthy, like whole grains (carbs) or dried fruits (fructose), my nutrients intake even worsened.

I believe any nutritionist claiming that all nutrients would be easily obtained through regular diet simply hasn't yet every gram of food weighted and calculated it through.

There is such free software like cronometer for tracking your intake and not get fooled again.

I see I have more to learn about nutrition than I had taught. I was raised on a "eat your greens and you'll be in top shape" prospect and only now am i realizing how misguided that information was. Thanks a lot for the software, that should help me a lot!

she said that it offers remarkably high doses of some nutrients. Mind you she did not elaborate, only that it offered generally high doses to people that don't have specialized diets.

Now as I mentioned I am no expert, but as a noob I do have my questions. Namely what sort of diet must one have to cater to the nutritional value of this supplement, so that the DV is not exceeded?

And also; What is the benefit of taking this supplement over managing your diet to eating foods that contain the listed vitamins and minerals? Are they not all found in common foods?

I'm not sure why your 'nutritionist' would say there are 'remarkably high' levels of anything in the supplement... that is, at best, a grossly ignorant statement. the only thing that would even be considered mildly high is the b12...and that is still at a very benign level. almost every nutrient in vimmortal is set to the US DRI's... as a general rule of thumb you dont want to exceed 100-300% of the DRI, and that changes depending on the nutrient. I was taught that the max levels of most water soluble vitamins in healthy people shouldn't exceed 300%, fat solubles are 200-300% depending on which one, minerals vary from 100 to 300% depending on which one.

my suggestion would be track your diet in cron-o-meter for 2-4 weeks, look at the averages and then adjust your dosing of vimmortal to fill in the holes. if you need more specific help, just shoot me a pm.

Thanks for the info, the cronometer will definitely simplify things. I would like to know, just out of interest, why some formulations exceed the 100% mark. Is the DV system that off-track? And why is Omega-3 not included in the mix?

That should clear everything that's been keeping me awake at night. Although I was always curious.... What are the negative implications of going on a supplement-only (+water) diet? No solid foods!

Edited by sebr.porte, 19 October 2010 - 10:08 PM.

[ajnast4r]

That should clear everything that's been keeping me awake at night. Although I was always curious.... What are the negative implications of going on a supplement-only (+water) diet? No solid foods!

some formulations go into the higher ranges, imo, as a selling point... 'more is better'. the more is better mentality is, imo, a myth perpetuated by supplement companies.
the DV% is just a little less relevant than the DRI's for our purposes.
omega3 is a macronutrient, not a micronutrient... vimmortal is a micronutrient supplement.

there are a LOT of unknowns in food, evolution has evolved us to eat food not supplements. nutritional science is still in its infancy, in 20,50,100 years there will likely be many more 'official' micronutrients...perhaps even entirely new classes of nutrients. you would undoubtedly develop disease and/or die prematurely if you lived only on supplements. vimmortal is meant to fill in the gaps, not to be the primary source of any micronutrient. so on days when your diet is inadequate, you take more... and days when your diet is adequate you take less.

your goal should -always- be to hit as close to 100% DRI first and foremost with healthy foods, every single day.

Edited by ajnast4r, 20 October 2010 - 12:19 AM.

[Benedictus]

some formulations go into the higher ranges, imo, as a selling point... 'more is better'. the more is better mentality is, imo, a myth perpetuated by supplement companies.

Hmm.. not for all ingredients. I see there is a terribly low dose of astaxanthin in vimmortal, and I'm pretty sure I'd find more missing dosages.

Who is the final decider for the amounts that go in?

Edited by Benedictus, 08 August 2011 - 02:26 PM.