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Bush Electoral Impact on Stem Cells?


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#1 manofsan

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 06:55 PM


Okay, so without getting bogged down into any flamefests on the wider liberal-conservative divide, I'd like to ask about the prospects for stem cell research with the re-election of President Bush.

So he was in favor of restriction the stem cell research on development of new stem cell lines, and was against the use of embryo tissue for such research.

But what about California's big new measure to fund stem cell research? Gov Schwarzennegger seems to be very much in favor of stem cell research, but how far can California go in the face of federal restrictions? California has just voted for $3Bn of funding, which looks like a promising start. But what is it mostly going to go into then?

Would stem cell research have really happened faster under Kerry? I'm not not sure how much he was personally in favor of the research, but most of his support base was.

What about research efforts in the rest of the world? I don't see the rest of the world waiting on the US, when it comes to pressing ahead in their own efforts. That experiment in South Korea seemed to be quite a breakthrough. Britain seems to have some pretty liberal laws, and so does Singapore.

Even if research is curtailed more in the United States, that doesn't mean the rest of the world won't carry on the torch. What about Canada and Mexico? Some researchers could just set up shop across the border.

#2 Mind

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 07:13 PM

Politically speaking, I am willing to bet that President Bush made a behind the scenes deal to take a "hands-off" approach in regards to the California stem cell initiative, in return for Arnold's last minute campaigning in Ohio. The stem cell win in California is good news. 3 billion is a good amount of money.

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#3 bgwowk

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 07:27 PM

Mexico doesn't have the infrastructure to support advanced research, and the legal situation is Canada is WORSE than the U.S.! Canada has a comprehensive cloning ban, including a ban a therapeutic cloning. You can do all the embryonic stem cell research you want in Canada, but only using surplus embryos. Creation of patient-specific stem cells is illegal, which severely limits the medical utility of the field.

Therapeutic cloning is currently legal in most states in the U.S. As I understand it, the only federal restrictions concern federal funding for embryonic stem cell harvesting. There are no federal restrictions on any aspect of embryonic stem cell research with private or state funds. The passage of Prop 71 in California will now make available state money to kick-start the field, making the federal funding restrictions somewhat moot.

The big risk is that an expanded Republican Congress will feel emboldened to pass a comprehensive cloning ban as Canada did. Bush would almost certainly sign it, and that would mean the end of meaningful embryonic stem cell research in a country than represents 50% of the world economy, and an even greater percentage of world science infrastructure.

As the rest of the world, don't forget that both the EU and UN have been discussing comprehensive cloning bans.

---BrianW

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#4 jaydfox

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 08:04 PM

The big risk is that an expanded Republican Congress will feel emboldened to pass a comprehensive cloning ban as Canada did. Bush would almost certainly sign it, and that would mean the end of meaningful embryonic stem cell research in a country than represents 50% of the world economy, and an even greater percentage of world science infrastructure.

As the rest of the world, don't forget that both the EU and UN have been discussing comprehensive cloning bans.

Yes, I agree. The U.N. has been delaying a vote on a total cloning ban because countries opposed to such a ban have rightfully pointed out that, ignoring the numerical superiority of countries in favor of the ban, the real weight of the ban was the U.S. support for the ban.

With Kerry in the White House, the U.S. position would shift most likely, and thus, even with numerical superiority, the countries supporting the ban would be in direct opposition with the majority shareholder of world scientific infrastructure. The ban would have at best stagnated, and at worst failed outright. The pressure to ban reproductive cloning would hang over the delegation, and a partial ban would likely have resulted.

With Bush holding the White House, however, the ban will most likely pass.

However, there is a silver lining: Prop 71. Reason (the person) has voiced concerns about it, and said that he opposed it on idealogical reasons (state funding of what should be the domain of private venture, etc.), but I see strong pragmatic reasons which overwhelmingly outweigh the ideological reasons.

First of all, there's the 300 million a year for stem cell research. It's about 12 times what Bush is spending a year, and almost twice what Bush will spend during his entire eight years in office. Per year. Let that sink in.

Kerry has promised $100 million a year, or four times what Bush has been allowing and will continue to allow. Prop 71 matches what Kerry would have spent in his entire four year term, in just over a year. Let that sink in.

Finally, remember this. The funding is already set aside. It's not private venture capital, which means it can't be scared away by a ban on therapeutic cloning. The money's already earmarked, so there's no capitalistic instinct to avoid potential legal problems. Sure, it means we can't use therapeutic cloning for treating specific patients, but the research can continue, somewhat hindered but not exorbitantly so.

What this means is, we've got ten years of unhindered, well-funded research to prove the worth of stem cells. All the advocates of adult stem cells will finally have to sit and see the results when real money is applied.

If embryonic stem cells fail to prove their worth, as the adult stem cell proponents are hoping, then we'll know, and we can all move on. But if, as is far more likely, ESC prove their worth, then we will most likely have many cures in stage I and II clinical trials, and with cures no longer promised, but IMMINENT, the ban on therapeutic cloning, if it is shown to still be a roadblock, will crumble. Especially if, as I suspect will happen, in the next ten years we find a way to clone somatic cells into stem cells without producing an entire embryo, thus circumventing the moral dilemma.


Now, on the other hand, if Prop 71 had failed, we'd be in trouble. First, it would send a message that Bush's position has legitimacy. Second, it would mean that, in addition to a total cloning ban, there would still be limited ESC research, allowing ESC research to continue to slowly chug along with few results and unfulfilled followup studies. ESC research would continue to lack any clear superiority over adult stem cells in the court of public opinion, and the total ban would remain in effect so long as to be almost irreversible. All the while, millions of people would be dying due to an ideological, fanatic, fundamentalist Lunatic! (No, I'm not talking about bin Laden or any other Muslim.)

So, ideological reasons aside, passing Prop 71 really is the most important thing that happened this election cycle. The second most important was the Bush/Kerry race. That's my opinion, anyway. It ignores the millions of deaths that Bush will cause or make likely because of his foreign policy, outside of those millions of deaths attributable to his medical policies. In that respect, I shouldn't understate how big a defeat this is for the mission of this website: "conquering"--or at least helping to prevent--"the blight of involuntary death..."

#5 manofsan

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 08:12 PM

Gee, Mind, good call on the Ohio thing, you could be right. But as bgwowk says, how long could such a deal last in the face of renewed religious conservative pressure to ban or severely restrict stem cell research. Perhaps the pressures on a president in the 2nd term are less, since he's not going to go for re-election after this. He wouldn't necessarily have to bow to extreme demands. And are all the Republican members of congress completely beholden to the religious conservatives who are against Alduous Huxley style runaway cloning? Perhaps there's enough room for middleground to prevail. Besides, a lot of Americans are getting older and increasingly suffering from the perils of old age, so the demographic tide is inexorably in favor of stem cell research. If Nancy Reagan can support it, then so could a lot of conservatives.

And while California is the first state to put such weight behind stem cell research, is this a case of "Only in California"? Or could other states be prompted to do the same thing? New York? Florida (home of many retirees)? Massachusetts? Minnesota?

It only takes a few states, and you've got all the major research centers that you need.

The UN negotiations would take a long time to work, and there are so many voices that would need to be heard that a UN agreement could take a long time to hammer out. Other nations might be resistant to intrusive inspection regimes, etc.
Besides, I thought the UN thing was just to prevent an "Isle of Dr Moreau" thing.

I think the EU is too liberal to go for a very restrictive ban. Also, there are once again a number of voices from the various member nations that would have to be heard, delaying EU action.

I'd no idea that Canada was that restrictive. As for Mexico, it's right near California anyway -- just build labs in Baha. They might be cheaper to operate.

#6 jaydfox

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 08:22 PM

And are all the Republican members of congress completely beholden to the religious conservatives...?

No, they're not. Perhaps it may surprise people here, but I'm a registered Republican. And I feel like my party has been hijacked by George Bush and his far right wing ideology. While Republicans try to play down that he's the centrist and Kerry's the liberal, speaking as a Republican myself, Bush is way right of center. I was going to vote Kerry or Badnarik, and then stick with Republicans for the other offices. However, when I had the ballot in front of me, I was so pissed at the Repubs for bowing to Bush's fanatic views that I voted Democrat right down the ticket, all the way. Until the Repubs can distance themselves from the likes of Bush, the way they once tried to distance themselves from Pat Buchanan and David Duke, I can't bring myself to support them. It's not my party anymore.

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#7 manofsan

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 08:50 PM

Heh, so maybe we should be rooting for an eventual President Schwarzenegger? (LOL, I'm just kidding, no flames plz)

But seriously, if Arnold helped Bush a lot in Ohio, perhaps the Whitehouse will be less inclined to confront California over stem cells.

You would think that as the so-called "party of the rich", it would mean that there are more wealthy Republican donors contributing to stem cell research. Maybe the reduced tax burden will give them more money to donate to the cause.

As I recall, President George Bush Sr was rather reserved in his views on abortion, and Barbara Bush was quoted as being pro-choice. That was cited as part of the reason that he lost the support of the religious right in the 1992 elections. But this time, a 2nd-term Bush presidency doesn't need to cater so much to that support base, since he's no going for re-election.

California has been trying to rejuvenate the post-bubble Silicon Valley with biotech. Hopefully such a large push will decisively ignite the technical flames.
That's a heckuva lot of money to concentrate in one technical field, but on the other hand, there are few areas of technical progress that are so near to the human condition.

#8

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 09:13 PM

I didn't know Canada was so restrictive on theraputic cloning? Is this true? Our government is quite liberal, and so are most of the parties, how could that pass?

I predict that scientific research will be staggered somewhat by the Bush administration in their second term. Particularly in areas relating to theraputic cloning, ESC research nationally, but California's ESC bill is a big win though. I have alot of respect for Schwarzenneger despite the fact he supported Bush.

Nanotechnology and genetic manipulation will really start to pick up steam in the next 4 years. I worry if Bush is going to start restricting research in those vitally important areas or limit national funding.

#9 bgwowk

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 09:54 PM

cosmos wrote:

I didn't know Canada was so restrictive on theraputic cloning? Is this true?

Yup.

http://www.wired.com...n_story_related

Our (Canadian) government is quite liberal, and so are most of the parties, how could that pass?

This is an issue that cuts across religious lines, and draws fire from both extreme left and right. There is a large nature-is-best contingent among secular leftists opposed to technological tampering with life, no matter how miserable life may be for individuals who need the therapy. Scratch a genetically-modified food opponent, and chances are you'll find a comprehensive cloning ban supporter too. That's why therapeutic cloning is also illegal in Gemany, an even more liberal and secular state than Canada.

---BrianW

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 12:05 AM

Yeah it's rather frustrating.

Leftist secularists and Religious conservatives both have a naturalist slant. I can understand why Germany is against theraputic cloning and genetic manipulation in general, their fallacious view of themselves as the master race has been a mark on their history and as a result they've humbled themselves to the extent that they won't accept any artificial manipulation or improvement of the human condition.

What industrialized places on Earth still maintain a freedom of research and responsible but not overbearing ethical oversight? I would think Europe would be among the best places, but maybe not.

Edited by cosmos, 10 November 2004 - 11:26 AM.





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