52 replies to this topic

[pinballwizard]

http://www.news8aust...=121901&SecID=2
http://news.bbc.co.u...900/3999993.stm

This Omega-3 fatty acid.. Perhaps this better than flax seed or any of the other seeds.

Comments? Other Links? Dosage?

[nootropi]

Optimizing Brain Functions Part II
© 1999 Brewer Science Library, All rights reserved
Excerpted from New Horizons, Winter 1999
by Christina L. White

Fish is brain food. We've all heard this from our mothers, grandmothers and perhaps even read it years ago in our home economics school books. It's one of those often-heard sayings that most of us didn't pay much attention to as kids. Now as adults of the baby boomer generation, experiencing some cognitive decline, we might be sorry we didn't.

Research studies continue to compile a substantially convincing amount of evidence that adequate consumption of the fatty acids in fish such as salmon, tuna, trout, halibut and sardines, can help relieve some of the symptoms of inflammatory conditions like asthma and colitis. Newer research also points to help with hyperactivity (ADHD), manic depression, schizophrenia, and high blood pressure.

DHA (decosahexaenoic acid) and EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid) are the fatty acids in fish that may help relieve some of these disorders. DHA is found in high amounts throughout the gray matter of the brain, the nervous system and the retina of the eye. On the nerve cell membranes its unique molecular structure helps to hold the cell's receptors in place so that neurotransmitters can "dock" there. This enables nerve cells to communicate with each other. When DHA is unavailable, the body utilizes a different fatty acid that does not provide the cell membrane with the same degree of beneficial fluidity. DHA is so important to the brain that it "gets first dibs" so to speak. One researcher who tracked over 1000 older adults over a period of 9 years found a 160 percent greater risk of developing dementia in the adults who had the lowest levels of DHA at the beginning of the study.

Fish oil supplements containing concentrated amounts of DHA and EPA are available in different potencies and forms. Dosages of 500 mg a day would be in the preventive category. One and a half to three grams a day have been used in studies of disease states.

For individuals who have difficulty digesting fats, a unique liquid form of fish oils can be found in Dale Alexander's Emulsified Norwegian Cod Liver Oil from Twin Labs. The oil is mixed with lecithin and pectin, (and natural flavors) which breaks it into tiny water soluble particles that most people don't burp up. Another unique product is Kirunal, a high-EPA fish oil. Recent fatty acid research has found that higher amounts of EPA (not DHA) may be more beneficial for hyperactivity (ADHD), manic depression and schizophrenia.

AMINO ACIDS & THE BRAIN
Brain neurons communicate with other neurons through messengers called neurotransmitters. They are composed of amino acids, which are obtained from dietary protein foods like eggs, cheese, soybeans, fish, poultry and meat. The brain has over 50 different neurotransmitters that are manufactured from these amino acid building blocks. A low protein diet can negatively affect behavior and mood by not providing the body with the amino acids it needs to produce adequate levels of specific neurotransmitters.

Researchers and health care practitioners have found that mood and behavior may also be positively altered by supplementation with specific amino acids that may raise the levels of specific neurotransmitters.

Phenylalanine is an amino acid used by the body to manufacture the energizing neuro- transmitter norepinephrine. One of the ways it brightens mood is by inactivating the enzyme that breaks down those "feel good" endorphins.

Arginine is an amino acid that is converted to spermine, a chemical that the brain uses in memory processing.

Tryptophan is an amino acid that is found in high carbohydrate foods. It is the precursor of serotonin, low levels of which are linked to depression, insomnia, cravings for high carbohydrate foods and sweets, PMS, headaches and anxiety. Tryptophan is only available by prescription, but the natural extract from the seed of the African Griffonia shrub, 5-HTP (5-hydroxytryptophan) is an immediate precursor to serotonin and is readily available in health food stores.

Taurine is an amino acid that functions as a stabilizer of the electrical potential of nerve cell membranes. It helps to facilitate and normalize the transport of calcium, magnesium, potassium and sodium ions in and out of the cell. Taurine has anticonvulsant and antianxiety properties. It also lowers glutamic acid levels in the brain. High levels of glutamic acid and glutamine can lead to excessive neuron excitability and neuron death.

Tyrosine can be considered the "stress amino acid" because it raises the body's storehouse of adrenaline, which is used by the body to physiologically cope with stressful experiences of all kinds. It may also reenergize a decreased sex drive because it raises dopamine brain levels. Tyrosine also has a marked antidepressive effect. It has aided some individuals in weight loss, by helping to control their excessive appetite, as well as being the precursor amino acid for thyroid hormone production that controls the rate of the body's metabolism.

Supplementation with individual amino acids is best done under the guidance of a professional. Individual amino acids are taken on an empty stomach so that they do not compete for absorption with other amino acids.

Other Supplements for Maximizing Brain Potential
Appropriate nutritional therapy can affect brain function in a positive way. The last decade of new nutritional supplements has opened the door for early intervention with supplementation to decrease and reverse some of the effects of cognitive decline.

GINKGO has been widely studied and is prescribed throughout Europe. It appears to work as an antioxidant in the brain, and it increases circulation in tiny blood vessels. Ginkgo has also been shown to reverse chromosome damage that was ten times above normal in the blood cells of Chernobyl nuclear reactor workers. Two months of supplementation of a 120 mg ginkgo extract reversed the chromosome damage to almost normal. This profound effect lasted for a full year even after supplementation was discontinued.

VINPOCETINE is one of the newer supplements, only available since 1998. Its primary action is as a brain oxygenator. It enhances blood circulation in areas of the brain where it is deficient. It acts as an antioxidant and inhibits the clumping of blood platelets, reducing the possibility of a stroke. In clinical studies it has alleviated a wide range of symptoms including headaches, vertigo, dementia, poor memory, and even restored some speech improvement to stroke victims.

NADH is the coenzymatic form of the B vitamin niacin. It facilitates the production of ATP (adenosine triphosphate) which is the body's storehouse of cellular energy. It has been used by the Austrian researcher, Georg Birkmayer, M.D., with Parkinson's and Alzheimer's patients, resulting in both moderate and dramatic improvements in some patients. Recently a study with chronic fatigue sufferers demonstrated a definite improvement in energy production and sense of well-being.

ACETYL-L-CARNITINE acts as a powerful neuroprotective agent in the brain. It functions to protect brain cells and synapses from oxidation by increasing the level of reduced glutathione; it protects against cellular debris accumulation, it protects the mitochondria, the energy factories in the cells; it helps to stabilize the membranes of neurons and it enhances nerve impulse transmission. It also is the only non-drug substance known that can improve communication between the two hemispheres of the brain.

HUPERZINE-A is one of the newer cognitive enhancers. It is an extract from the ancient Chinese remedy club moss (Huperzia serata). It helps to maintain high levels in the brain of acetylcholine, which is involved in memory formation and learning. Huperzine-A does this by inactivating the enzyme (acetylcholinesterase) that breaks down acetylcholine. Acetylcholine is what is decreased in people with Alzheimer's disease. One very interesting fact is that huperzine-A fits the receptor on the enzyme better, and binds more effectively than the two drugs approved for the same action, tacrine (Cognex) and donepezil (Aricept).

SAM-e is another of the new supplements that has been used in Europe as an antidepressant. It also helps to maintain levels of the important antioxidant glutathione. SAM-e is another substance that can improve brain cell membrane fluidity, which improves receptor functioning. SAM-e is also involved in the production of the myelin sheath that surrounds nerve cells.

PUTTING IT TOGETHER
While trying to decide which of all these cognitive enhancing supplements to begin taking I recommend playing the song from Fiddler on the Roof, "If I Were a Rich Man"! If I were rich I would take all of them because I dearly would like to avoid cognitive decline as much as possible. Here are some ideas on supplementation.

FIRST, make sure you are taking all the basics that are relatively inexpensive. That would include a vitamin B complex of at least 50 mg a day, and B6 which is very important might be taken in its coenzymated form P5P. Lecithin with a high phosphatidyl choline content along with B12 in the preferred methylcobalamin form; taken together they increase acetylcholine levels. Ginseng is inexpensive and has a balancing effect on cortisol and stress. Ginkgo is also relatively inexpensive and promotes oxygen delivery through better circulation. The mineral magnesium is very inexpensive, yet it is very important to the brain. It helps to protect against high levels of calcium building up in the brain which can cause excessive calcium influx resulting in cell death. Magnesium is involved in numerous chemical reactions as a catalyst and it also helps promote calmness. Zinc is another inexpensive mineral that helps to remove lead from the body. Fish oils are relatively inexpensive and contribute greatly to brain health as well as anti-inflammatory reactions throughout the body. It is also very important to eat adequate amounts of protein to supply the amino acids the body needs to make neurotransmitters.

NEXT, take an honest look at your cognitive level of functioning: short-term and long-term memory, alertness, attention, mental energy level; then look in your checkbook and see how much you've got to spend.

The next two supplements to consider would probably be ALC (acetyl-l-carnitine) which is a powerful neuroprotector and PS (phosphatidylserine). Although most of the PS research results were obtained with 300 mg a day, one study showed that 100 mg a day taken for a longer time eventually resulted in the same degree of improvement as the higher supplement level. One could take a loading dose of each for perhaps two months, and then maintain by supplementing two or three times a week. People with more severe cognitive decline may chose to take the higher dosages as well as adding the energy supplement NADH until they experience some improvement in their cognitive functions before reducing dosages. It is best to let an experienced health care practitioner provide supplementation guidance.

source

[nootropi]

click here

[scottl]

http://www.ruggedmag...?showtopic=6531

[pinballwizard]

Correct me where I am wrong

OK, I did some surfing and read some of the links and here is what I found:

1. *EPA is supposedly better than DHA. Gurus that say this: AOR and Dr. Sears, the guy that wrote the Zone book. Backed with some research. People are not saying to the contrary. I will speculate so.

2. *Recently, a great deal of interest has been paid to the ratio of the fatty acids arachidonic acid (AA) (this is Omega-6) [:o] to eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA). According to Dr. Sears, a lower AA/EPA ratio indicates a better balance of "good" and "bad" eicosanoids in your body. An AA/EPA ratio of 1.5 is considered to be ideal, since this is the ratio found in the Japanese population having the greatest longevity and the lowest incidence of cardiovascular disease. The average AA/EPA of Americans is approximately 11, and for patients with inflammatory conditions and neurological disorders, the AA/EPA ratio will be in excess of 20. [glasses]

3. *If you take too much Omega-3 in relation to omega-6 (aka AA), a cut may not stop bleading, or you can get a brain hemorrage common in eskimos. you want to keep your blood at ratio found in #2 above.

4. Pure EPA is many times more powerful in blood thining than O3 containing a balance of EPA and DHA in large quantities. (from Avant/pubmed posts). It is some real blood-thinner.

5. Body-builders take fish oil for losing fat. (20 grams sometimes). The general consensus and there is not one really, for dosage is 3, 6, 10 grams... AA/EPA balance is probably more important.

6. I speculate that take weeks to bring down your ratio to 1.5. So you might be safe taking a lot at first, but I am not sure.

7. Dr. Sears, author of the "The Zone book" thinks that you should buy his omega-3 formula and he recommend that you get your omegas from sources that state the exact amounts of heavy metals, PCBs, mercury, etc in the oil. AOR thinks the same. Price is somewhat negligible:

Here is Sears stringent criteria:



8. Lowering Omega 6s is the same as raising Omega-3s from a safety concern.

9. In the real american world with our diets it will pretty darn hard to get the ratio lower than 1.5 for it to ever be a concern. from: Zeppelin, an Avant poster.

10. dosage from sears:




11. There are blood tests for the omegas to monitor the level. Sears recommends to test AA/EPA




Conclusion: I plan on scrapping the cheap fish oil from Walgreens and getting better stuff with EPA and no PCBs when this runs out. My sesathin is on the way, and that is also omega 3. I will then half the dosage and run a least one of the tests. I am gonna monitor this as I go, unless someone states otherwise. I might supplement with omega 6 later--I have to run the math and re-read stuff.

[pinballwizard]

I thought zeppelin at Avant put it in perspective:

You need not worry about O-6 intake if you live, or better eat, in the modern world.  First, lets back up a step.  Remember, each specific fatty acid is responsible for a different eicosonaoid and therefore a seperate function other than building cellular strutures.  Within the cell walls, each fatty acid also takes on different characteristics.  Sat. fats tend to lower insulin sensitivity and O-3 tend to raise it.

If you do no  consume sufficient amounts of EPA and DHA, the body will make them from alpha-linoleic acid.  Linoleic acid though, the major O-6 in our diets, if consumed in excess amounts can significantly lower the efficiency.

You only need roughly about 1-2% of your total energy from O-6.  Now keep in mind that most oils that are used today are very high in O-6 and very low in O-3.

Safflower- 77% linoleic / trace alpha-linolenic

Sunflower- 69% linoleic / no alpha-linolenic

Corn- 61% linoleic /  no alpha-linolenic

Soybean- 54% linoleic /  7% alpha-linolenic

All of the above have similar amounts of saturated fatty acids, and so do canola and olive oils but are better in part for their higher O-3 a but also lower O-6.  As you see, it is a trade off. 

Canola- 22% linoleic / 10% alpha-linolenic

Olive- 8% linolenic / 1 % alhpa-linolenic

Be carefull though, as extremely excessive amounts of O-3 can cause problems in blood clotting.  O-6 tend to increase clotting and O-3 reduce it, so again, balance wins out.

So you really need not worry about O-6 and -9.  Just make sure you get a good intake of O-3.  If you eat 3x as many 3 as 6, you will have a problem clotting.  Hemorrhagic stroke is a possibility and seen in eskimos who basically survive on fish.

Shoot for 10 grams of fish oil per day, a little more if you are worried.  Remember though, lowering your intake of O-6 and saturated fats will have a similiar impact as raising your o-3 intake.

[zg00]

What about mercury and other fresh/salt water contaminants?

[pinballwizard]

[pinballwizard]

After some thought and analysis, I speculate that quality Omega fish oil is the way to go, until I learn more. I going take about 5 grams. Didn't Mozart have problems because he ate so much fish. Anyway, if you eat to much fish, I suppose you look like the guy who got robbed of the election in the Ukraine (dioxin, remember, but I am only half-serious).

[lynx]

Costco has excellent prices on high epa/dha fish oil, tested clean.

[jpars82]

I've had good experience with the Natural Factors brand at Iherb. It's high potency... 400mg EPA/200mg DHA per capsule. link

[Chip]

Costco seems to have the best price but it is not molecularly distilled and it does not list where the fish oil is from, most pollution free considered to be from the North Atlantic. Trader Joes, a store chain along at least the West coast of USA has an excellent product that is molecularly distilled which means the pollutants have been removed and the EPA/DHA content increased. I take seven of those caps a day, about two grams of EPA and 1.5 of DHA. I have definitely noticed mood elevation and enhanced cognitive abilitities which came and went as I started and stopped the regimen a few times. At first I was taking the less concentrated non-molecularly distilled type (it was on sale at Walgreens) and it was hard to keep up the 12 capsules a day especially since I balked concerning the possibility of getting more than my share of mercury and other toxins. Now I take about half of the more concentrated caps from Trader Joes and it is easier to keep it up.

One book that concentrates on the psychological aspects of the omega 3 fatty acids is "The Omega3 Connection" by Andrew Stoll (2002). If you do a search on the web you will find that double blind clinical studies are being done right now with the expectation that this stuff holds great value for many neurological complaints.

jparsell82, that does look like a good source, about the same price as the Trader Joes product and more concentrated. I would need to take about 5 of those instead of the seven I now take per day. I'm surprised they do not mentioned "molecularly distilled."

[nootropi]

Costco seems to have the best price but it is not molecularly distilled and it does not list where the fish oil is from, most pollution free considered to be from the North Atlantic.  Trader Joes, a store chain along at least the West coast of USA has an excellent product that is molecularly distilled which means the pollutants have been removed and the EPA/DHA content increased.  I take seven of those caps a day, about two grams of EPA and 1.5 of DHA.  I have definitely noticed mood elevation and enhanced cognitive abilitities which came and went as I started and stopped the regimen a few times.  At first I was taking the less concentrated non-molecularly distilled type (it was on sale at Walgreens) and it was hard to keep up the 12 capsules a day especially since I balked concerning the possibility of getting more than my share of mercury and other toxins.  Now I take about half of the more concentrated caps from Trader Joes and it is easier to keep it up. 

One book that concentrates on the psychological aspects of the omega 3 fatty acids is "The Omega3 Connection" by Andrew Stoll (2002).  If you do a search on the web you will find that double blind clinical studies are being done right now with the expectation that this stuff holds great value for many neurological complaints.

jparsell82, that does look like a good source, about the same price as the Trader Joes product and more concentrated.  I would need to take about 5 of those instead of the seven I now take per day.  I'm surprised they do not mentioned "molecularly distilled."

I definately agree that Trader Joe's is the way to go, on several items. Their organic food selection is not only excellent, but impossible to beat taste-wise. I purchase almost all of my food there, especially milk products, cheeze, their pizza and pasta is the best too; and mostly free of milk from cows treated with growth hormones and other potentially dangerous GMOs. Their fish oil capsules cost $7.99 USD for 90 capsules and each capsule contains 300 mg EPA and 200 mg DHA; they also have organic flax seed oil and several other excellent supplement products.

You have to be an idiot not to shop at Trader Joe's.

[zg00]

Unless of course, you have a Whole Foods (and some money to burn).

Yes, I live in Southern California.

[scottl]

Zg they don't call whole foods "whole pay check" for nothing.

Trader Joes was supposed to open a store in western PA but changed their mind. And trader joes alas does not do mail order.

[Chip]

Here is the source in Los Angeles that appears to be one of the highest EPA concoctions available, 500 mg per capsule. Appears that the EPA is more effective than DHA for many of the neurological ailments though one should do more research concerning exactly what might be indicated for any specific ailments being targeted:

http://www.iherb.com/omega3mood.html

BTW, if you do your research it becomes evident that a supplement of vitamin E should be taken along with the fish oil supplements.

[pinballwizard]

Here is the source in Los Angeles that appears to be one of the highest EPA concoctions available, 500 mg per capsule.  Appears that the EPA is more effective than DHA for many of the neurological ailments though one should do more research concerning exactly what might be indicated for any specific ailments being targeted:

http://www.iherb.com/omega3mood.html

BTW, if you do your research it becomes evident that a supplement of vitamin E should be taken along with the fish oil supplements.

[lol] Jesus, that is a great price! Excuse me. Good job. [thumb] That appears to be a product that I want based upon price EPA concentration, quality and my knoweledge I got that EPA is good. This vendor is on the top of my list.

What is interesting, so far from the all the fish oil I am taking is that my appetite is less. There is science out there that fish oil suppresses appetite because of the fat energy burning.

[pinballwizard]

Research update

Chip the only bad thing to note is that the omega-3 (1000mg EPA + 200mg DHA) is 60% of the total fat. The other 40% is omega 6. While the ratio I think is 1.5:1, omega6:omega3, the american diet is like 10+:1. these pills are 1:1.5. How do we know if it is enough for a rebalance? (Correct me if I am wrong, I need a fact check).

http://www.askdrsear...l/4/T040400.asp <--brain foods.

[Chip]

pinballwizard, I do not understand how you came up with the omega 6 content as 40%. I don't see any mention of the other fats being omega 6. Are there only the two types? A quick search on the web brought me this site, http://www.diet-and-...nts/Omega3.html which states that there are also monounsaturated fats in fish oil. Omega 6 are saturated fats (right?) and omega 3, polyunsaturated. The list of fats for the item under scrutiny does not add up to 2 grams while listing the saturated fats as zero content. This would lead me to believe the 800 mg not accounted for are mono-unsaturated, not omega 6 or omega 3.

?

[pinballwizard]

pinballwizard]http://www.diet-and-health.net/Nutrients/Omega3.html[/URL] which states that there are also monounsaturated fats in fish oil.  Omega 6 are saturated fats (right?) and omega 3, polyunsaturated.  The list of fats for the item under scrutiny does not add up to 2 grams while listing the saturated fats as zero content.  This would lead me to believe the 800 mg not accounted for are mono-unsaturated, not omega 6 or omega 3. 

?

Cool, I was not sure if I was right. I started studying this omega3 relatively recently. I just saw that your product serving size containe the following:

Fat: 2 grams

AND OF THE 2 GRAMS YOU GOT:
EPA: 1 gram
DHA: 200 mgs

So what is the other 800mgs? Is it Omega 3? I read somewhere that quite often omega 6 is what it is and that the FDA forced the nutrition field to state their EPA and DHA content.

I know nothing about poli, unpoli, saturated, mono whatever... my dyslexia and ignorance gets the best of me for now.

It seems like you may have deduced that it is mono-unsaturated and what is that? is that an Omega? Does this matter? my apologies in advance.

[nootropi]

I do not necessarily agree with all of the hooplah about EPA. The fact is DHA is most essential for brain function. Whether or not your "mood" is improved is largely irrelevant in my opinion, at least. The last reason I take EFAs is to produce a better mood. The reason I take EFA supplements and algae supplements (such as chorella) is to provide my brain the basic building blocks for nerve cells and neurotransmitters and brain membrane fluidity.

I do not consider fish oil supplementation alone to be sufficient for brain function. Flax seed oil provides other essential 6 and 9s.

EFA supplementation is important for several other nootropics to function well.

[Chip]

Understood, nootropi. I largely agree however, there are recent large sample size double blind studies that show the EFAs (and mainly the EPA) as effective as Zoloft, Paxil or Prozac in alleviating mood disorders without the serious side effects for many that are prescribed those addictive pharmaceutical company cash cows. There is also a large study underway this year concerning its effects, again mainly EPA, as motivated by a couple small human trials and animal research concerning seizures that hopes to find the same results amongst humans as with animals, that is, equal if not better effect at stopping and alleviating various neurological based seizure disorders as major prescribed drugs today.

I found these studies and printed them out and sent them to my father recently who is now on dilantin for partial epilepsy. The dilantin is proving to be very distasteful for my dad who is used to having been quite a powerful and clear headed person for all of his life up until he started the doctor prescribed regimen. There is a web site that collects testimonials from dilantin sufferers where the host suggests that prescribing it is criminal and he gives detailed suggestions as to how to get off of the highly addictive dilantin.

So far, I understand the EPA fatty acid has been found to be more effective than DHA in treating neurological maladies and the DHA as more effective for heart health. If you could find the time to give us some URLs concerning your claim that the DHA is "most essential" for neurological health, I would be grateful.

TIA

Chip

[scottl]

http://www.aor.ca/pr...9&exec_sum=summ

[Chip]

Damn, it can be difficult to use the editing software provided by this forum software to correct or update a post.

Wow, nice article, scotti. Thanks for sharing. I see no mention of what I recollect, that a higher dose of DHA appears to be more heart health promoting than the EPA. That could of been just some spurious data or my not recollecting correctly. Ah, what an informative article. I got to send it to my dad right away. Before being put on dilantin, he used the internet and we conversed via email but now, I find it is better to write him. I hope he can get off of that mind numbing anti-seizure drug eventually. As far as I can tell, his seizures were not life threatening or much more than an infrequent occurence that could of been handled perhaps most successfully with a little intelligent nutritional supplementation and he never should of been prescribed the dilantin which almost ended his life due to an attempt at joint suicide with my step-mom. Murderous self-serving cyclone of targeted pharmaceutical advertising campaigns and doctor gullibility results in pure crap.

I understand now that pharmaceutical grade means it has undergone molecular distillation that leaves pollutants out of the final product. Please feel free to inform me otherwise if I be mistaken.

Hmmm, that EPA Brite looks interesting. I find it listed for sale as follows: EPA•Brite180 Capsules 325mg New $66 https://genevanutrit..._mode=cat_click

If that source in Los Angeles is legit ( http://www.iherb.com/omega3mood.html ) , it may just be the most bang for the buck. The Trader Joes capsules are about 3/2 EPA to DHA and the Los Angeles source listed above, 5/1.

The possibility that the DHA lessens the effect really makes that EPA Brite look like the best product. For EPA Brite two grams supplementation would cost $2.76 per day. For the others there is the DHA but the cost of providing EPA at two grams are 67 cents per day for TJ with 1.4 grams DHA and $1.02 per day for the Omega 3 Mood. Looks like the Omega 3 Mood may just offer the best bang for the buck at about one third cost of the EPA Brite and the downside of 400 mg DHA. Then again, we are looking at the convenience of taking only four capsules rather than 7 per day of the others. Again, the URL of a seller of the Omega 3 Mood is http://www.iherb.com/omega3mood.html

What a pain to get this correct. Maybe I still be in error. Check my math if you will.

Edited by Chip, 15 December 2004 - 10:57 PM.

[Chip]

Hmmm, that Omega 3 Mood is offered at a 20% discount if order is $240 or more. That's an extra $4.oo off each bottle and the shipping from the source would then be free so that comes to 71 cents per day. Hmmm, if we can organize a mass buy we can save some bucks. I'd be willing to do the drop shipping at, what, $2.00 per bottle? That would make it 80 cents per day for the supplementation rather than the $1.02. If we have enough interested folks I'll look into the actual shipping costs, maybe the cost of using my paypal account to facilitate things. What say thee? Any one want to consider a collaborative effort to get that Omega 3 Mood product at maybe the best price possible?

[Chip]

My paypal charges about 3%, so assuming $2 drop ship per bottle comes up to 18 plus 3 percent of 18 or $18.54 each bottle (a savings of $2.46 per bottle). Since I'm here in California, we can look at the first leg of the shipping to take about 2 days and then where everyone was at would determine the rest of the time to get it to ya assuming no complications. We would have to make sure we had enough people wanting 12 bottles in total to make it work. I would be good for two. Any one else?

Actually, since I want to get some for my dad too, I would be willing to go for four bottles. Two bottles should last us each about 45 days. All I need is another 8 bottles for the order and it can be done. If we get enough people wanting to do this, I'll direct you to my paypal account. Oh, you can look on Ebay under my ID there, chip_let, and see how I've rated so far as honoring my commitments there.

[stellar]

I read on rec.drugs.smart that the Fish Oil should be "emulsified"...that is what gives you the most bioavailability, perhaps?

[Chip]

Can you provide an URL stellar?

[pinballwizard]

I think that there is a lot of consensus on this topic. Here is my synopsis so far.

Originally, everyones jumped on the band wagon and thought that DHA was the substance the needed for optimum health. Why, because so much of it is in the brain and there is relatively little EPA. AOR, Andrew L. Stoll and/or Barry Sears said that. I used the index and read through their books online for free using Amazon.coms "read inside this book" features. You got to do that, it is so resourceful if they let you look at the whole book. Sears book seemed to have just as much marketing as insight, so I am glad not to have bought the book.

Stoll, Sears and AOR seem to be leading in the direction of EPA for mental health, AOR being the most out there. But most if not all the experiments refer to mental health as an absence of depression, Bi-pollar, borderline, or emotional health issues. In fact, Sears talks about AA/EPA ratios in the blood has such a strong correlation with emotional health that it should be used as measurement.

But cognitive performance is one aspect of mental health that is not discussed as Nootropi pointed out. And the gurus do realize that it is DHA that is needed to stimulate brain growth in infants and that is when most of it is occuring for your lifetime. And that is why Stoll has recommended DHA to pregnant mothers. If we are to enhance our cognition, and if this is important, it would theoretically suggest that we should dose up DHA too. But are there any studies that support supplementing DHA with nootropics like hydergine which is just one example (FYI hydergine literally thickens your neural density)? If there is no studies then (I suspect, but Nootropi you should check medline since you have it), all we have are anecdotes and personal experiences to rely on. I don't think experimentation is a problem because DHA does not make you depressed or crazy, it just will inhibit the EPA from making you better.

We all know that our brain is making new neurons everyday no matter what age we are. But not enough are being created as we age to counteract the dying ones. Unfortunately, we are running deficits analgous to the trade deficit between China and the USA.

Nootropi's other great point is that we have other Essential Fatty Acids (EFAs) to think about and to take. We actually need more Omega-6 than omega 3 as the data suggests. However, the American diet simply does not have enough omega 3 and we quite often short change the O3.

In conclusion, I suggest we figure out our goals... do we want to "attempt" to be smart or increase happiness with absolute certainty? I am not even sure we know enough about this stuff.

I just started using the pubmed tonight. I hope my work ain’t that off. If I just stick the Abstract (synopsis) and jump down to the conclusion (the only place where the authors can give opinions, speculation), I won’t shoot myself. [lol] [lol]

Additional Info

According this link ( http://www.pubmedcen...ez&artid=122397 ), rats with ginko biloba counteract some of the gene suppression that is inadvertently done by the EPA and DHA. So both EPA and DHA actually inhibit some other cognitive enhancement (ie “neuroproliferation and differentiation in some brain regions”).

Here is the exact quote:

“On the other hand, the gene encoding transthyretin, which regulates neuroproliferation and differentiation in some brain regions, was suppressed. This gene was up-regulated in mice treated with Ginkgo biloba extract. Gingko biloba is known to counteract some neurological disorders such as loss of short-term memory, lack of attention, or even Alzheimer's disease.”

The experiment also suggests looking for minimal doses at the (end of the article) in future studies, since EPA and DHA can often have immediate effects. And these might inhibit other things as well.

This says if rats take DHA, rats also need to take DHA containing PEs (Phosphatydlethanolamines) to get cognitive improvements
http://www.pubmedcen...df&artid=208755

Here is a primer on Omega-3 http://www.pubmedcen...df&artid=533861

[Chip]

Oh, appears that this product here is the most EPA bang for the buck:

http://www.iherb.com/ultraepacon.html

On top of the already competitive price, order $120 worth and you get free shipping and 10% discount, over $240 gives you free shipping and 20% discount.