32 replies to this topic

[unipolar_mania]

For all of you who love the effects of nootropics and don’t mind the taste or making your own blend, this stack is for you. The Neural Homebrew combines the three effective powders L-Tyrosine, Choline Citrate and Acetyl L-Carnitine with a 90 count bottle of GHV (Gingko Biloba, Huperzine A, Vinpocetine) to allow you to customize the dosage and save!
    * GHV, 90 Capsules
    * L-Tyrosine Powder, 200 grams
    * Choline Citrate Powder, 100 grams
    * Acetyl L-Carnitine Powder, 75 grams

http://www.1fast400....roducts_id=1629

What do you guys think?

[scottl]

Looking interesting and depending on your goals, perhaps worth a trial. I can tell you from personal experience that I've had good luck increasing alertness and concentration with:

A. Powerdrive:

L-Tyrosine 3,000 milligrams
Phosphatidylcholine 1,000 milligrams
DMAE 200 milligrams
Ginkgo Biloba 200 milligrams
Vitamin B6 20 milligrams

and

B. Neurostim, which I like even better:

they don't list exact doses of ingredients:

6.5 grams TyroLean™-- Specific amounts of Choline, Tyrosine and ALCAR

305 milligrams BrainDrive™--Proprietary Blend of Huperzine A, DMAE and Vinpocetine


Interesting that both contain DMAE....which...has a mixed reputation.


Oh and you might be able to get it cheaper with smi2le.....personally I'd wait until/if his customer services stabilizes....money is cheaper then aggrivation.

[nootropi]

What do you guys think?

Well well, unipolar mania! We are now onto discuss something more...well...interestng...

Personally, I would not recommend this particular combination. Why? Well the first thing to consider is effectiveness.

What effect is this mixture to exert? A nootropic effect? That is, an increase in creative thinking abilities? These four elements are not the most effective at anything I am aware of.

ALCAR is an excellent supplement that should be taken at least twice a day in dosages equaling or excelling 2 grams per day. But it is essential to also ingest at least 600 milligrams of R-Alpha-lipoic acid in at least 3 separated dosages of 200 mg (per day). That is necessary to combat the excessive oxidative stress which is generated by the ALCAR's effects. You can purchase K-RALA from Gernova by the kilogram for $600. 1.5 grams of K-RALA is equivalent to 600 milligrams of RALA. Now, if you do not have that kind of money on hand, then you can contact some middlemen. Judging from the content of your posts thus far in this forum, you have exhausted your patience with smi2le and do not want to engage with him in a business relationship. It seems you have been looking at Mr. Mike McClandless's website (that is, the owner of bulk nutrition dot com). From what I hear going around, he is selling this KRALA product as well. So if it fits your fancy, then you can point your browser over to his website and purchase what may or may not be ALCAR and KRALA. Mr. McClandless does not engage in trust-based relations with his client base, probably, (as he as empahsized) to lower liability risks. Therefore I cannot guarantee the quality or integrity of the products you may or may not purchase from his website. But I would like to kindly inform you that his site sells products synthesized in China; and has shipped out false products before. So that is a general disclaimer to protect myself from any ill effects you may accrue ingesting products purchased from his site. Well after all, it is your body, not mine.

Be well. And thanks for contributing a discussion topic of merit.

[unipolar_mania]

Thanks for you reply.

What do you consider to be the most effective supplement(s) for increasing creativity and improving memory?

Since quality is very important, I will investigate Gernova as a source for K-RALA.
K-RALA is certainly an impressive supplement. What dosage do you recommend?

In regards to 1FAST400, the majority of their bulk powders are accompanied by COAs. Doesn't the COA indicate the product sold is pure?

[magr]

Doesn't the COA indicate the product sold is pure?

The COA indicates that the product analyzed is pure.

It is another thing if the product you have is the same.

But i would not worry, they have made one mistake.
They informed everybody about it in time and handled everyting very professionally.
I trust them.

You can do a search about it around here.

[nootropi]

Thanks for you reply. 

What do you consider to be the most effective supplement(s) for increasing creativity and improving memory?

Since quality is very important, I will investigate Gernova as a source for K-RALA.
K-RALA is certainly an impressive supplement.  What dosage do you recommend?

In regards to 1FAST400, the majority of their bulk powders are accompanied by COAs.  Doesn't the COA indicate the product sold is pure?

No, the COA is a CLAIM. I tested Rizzer's idebenone; the COA said 98.82%, the assay did not quite come out there (the actual assay came out more like 97.3 or something around that range.)



Be sure to add the loss on drying to the purity level to get net purity.

Every powder coming from China is shipped off with a COA. That is what bulk nutrition has uploaded at their site; nothing more. Don't forget that Chinese powder dealers ship products with high levels of contaminants due to the poor economic status of their nation (the water supply and other industrial materials used in manufacturing drugs may have high metal contents, for example). The Chinese powder dealer is profiting from selling the powder. It is thus in his best interest to include an assay with a high level of analytical rated purity. This DOES NOT MEAN that the powder is safe. Plus, a Chinese powder dealer ships powders out with no liability concerns. So if you die or get sick (or such an event occurs to somebody that you care about), there is nothing you can do; you are out of luck.

The Chinese have been known to even produce products which are then sold to pharm companies that turn out to contain what may be considered "potentially dangerous and illegal ingredients."

However, MCA checks have also uncovered poisonous heavy metals such as mercury and arsenic, and prescription only steroids which could be damaging if taken over long periods.

Chinese medicines 'still a danger' Read this article.

That is why I am going to get a whole bunch of Rizzer's stuff assayed to be sure it is safe. The HPLC assays that I will have performed will test the powder for levels of metals, as the idebenone sample I submitted.

[nootropi]

What do you consider to be the most effective supplement(s) for increasing creativity and improving memory?

Piracetam, Aniracetam, Oxiracetam, and Pramiracetam. Pramiracetam is still too expensive, so if I were you I would investigate the first three. Be sure to take a heavy choline supplement with your racetams; and be sure to take the same doses at the same times every day for several months to see the benefits.

[magr]

Be sure to take a heavy choline supplement with your racetams; and be sure to take the same doses at the same times every day for several months to see the benefits.

Sorry to be of bother but can you give an example of 'heavy' choline supplement?
I am taking 2 X 680mg Alpha GPC at the moment.
Is this enough to compensate for the Aniracatem and work in itself as mild nootropic?
I take 3x500mg Aniracetam.

It would be nice to see some kind of list of dosages for different forms of choline, with and without *racetams.
Alpha GPC, CDP Choline, Choline Bitartrate and Choline Citrate seems to be the most popular?

Edited by magr, 21 November 2004 - 07:59 PM.

[unipolar_mania]

Nootropi, the information you provided on Chinese powders and COAs is interesting, and has made me think twice about purchasing from 1FAST400. I agree that the best approach is to purchase a powder and then perform the HPLC. I definitely want to ensure the powders I consume are pure, particularly since I am planning on taking them for several years.

[nootropi]

Magr and Unipolar mania:

I do hope you do not take my comments all too seriously. When interacting with people on the internet, I try to make myself clear; often people misinterpret me based on their pre concieved notions of me, which may be understandable, based on your relationship with me and the other members in this forum.

I am happy that you are contributing here as well as bringing your views on how you are treated by a service that you recieve from a third party.

All such comments are welcome. But it is good to know that you also respect us enough to share your questions regarding nootropics. Others I am sure thank you as well. If you want proof of the influence of this forum and its members, simply google some key words in nootropic language. You will find that almost always, the first hit will be to a discussion in this exact forum. So you are contributing to the world wide knowlege base of the nootropic world when you share here.

To address your question:

That Alpha GPC dose alone should be sufficent. If you can afford it, try 2 X 1000 mg (2 grams a day split into two even doses, because the concentration is only 50%).

The others:

3X500 aniracetam should be (in my opinion) changed to 2 X 750 mg.

If you plan on also taking piracetam, then just take 2 X 650 mg aniracetam and 2 X 1000 mg piracetam.

I do hope we can become friends. I only sound mean. I am really not. I just say what comes to mind, don't take it personally.

Thanks for sharing.

[scottl]

Unipolar,

The details of 1 fast 400 and how/where he gets his supps are in a thread on the avant forum....I do not think nootropi is....unbiased on this topic.

[dopamine]

What do you consider to be the most effective supplement(s) for increasing creativity and improving memory?

I personally find that Pramiracetam is primarily good for motivation and encouraging goal-oriented behavior. Piracetam can have the opposite effect on me, inducing a creative awareness but which cannot at times be focused on a specific piece of work or task. Aniracetam can have anxiolytic and antidepressant effects, which has been shown in some studies to increase mental performance similarly as do standard antidepressants (prozac, zoloft, lexapro, etc), though the mechanism of action is quite different. Aniracetam has been shown to delay the time by which the AMPA receptors are deactivated and desensitized, but it does not act as an agonist. N-anisoyl-GABA, a metabolite of Aniracetam, has been shown to increase the release of dopamine and serotonin in the pre-frontal cortex, a possible consequence of interaction with samotodendritic nicotinic acetylcholine and NMDA receptors.

The other racetams show a very non-specific interaction with these neurotransmitter systems, and tend to show less efficacy of application in depression-related memory disorders. If you are just starting nootropics, I would suggest starting with Piracetam and if you don't like it's effects try Aniracetam. I would also advise against mixing racetams, as I personally have had very bad effects from doing do, though some get very good effects with a little tweaking of the dosages.

[unipolar_mania]

@scottl: I will investigate that thread now.

@dopamine: Thanks for you reply. You appear to be quite well educated in the field of psychotropic drugs. I will try piracetam. I really want to try pramiracetam; where do you purchase this drug from?

[mercurygirl]

nootropi (or others),

Do I understand correctly that a roughly 1-to-1 ratio of Alpha GPC and Aniracetam in two divided doses daily may be a good starting point? Of course I realize that everyone is different and I will need to adjust based on results...

[nootropi]

Unipolar,

The details of 1 fast 400 and how/where he gets his supps are in a thread on the avant forum....I do not think nootropi is....unbiased on this topic.

Scottl, while you may claim to have an MD, I must say that whereever you attended medical school must not have provided you with a very good education whatsover.

To be 100% honest with you and the rest of the community, I do not believe that you are an MD. Yes, so I am calling you a liar. No MD would come here with such a poor understanding of his own field. Judging from the content of your posts, comments, and questions, you hardly understand anything about medicine. Sorry to break it to you, but that's just the way I see it. I remember when AORsupport had to explain to you what the difference between a peer review and placebo controlled compiled data; that was hilarious.

Just in case you forgot (click here) everyone should read this thread and then tell me that you actually believe that this scottl is indeed an MD; and if you do, then I want to hear you explain to me how an MD can possibly know so little about his field!

Regarding 1fast400, you can raise their flag here and waive all you please; but the fact is unquestionable that 1fast400 has shipped out and sold false products and that their owner is deceptive. Do you remember David Tolson telling us that they assayed their products and uploaded the results to that labelclaims website? I proved that that was a load of shit; I guess that just like when you were in medical school you never understood the concepts being discussed in class, and even today, in this forum, you still remain to be unable to retain facts and integrate their implications. Sorry to have to discredit you in this manner, but you are now possibly endangering the lives of members of this community with your ignorance.

Even while Rizzer has taken the bold stand to allow his customers to send in his products for quality control testing, you still are too obtuse to figure out the benefits. Great doctor! What kind of doctor are you anyways? Let me guess, one without an MD? One that thinks a website that sells Chinese products that have never been assayed to the general public is reputable. I can tell you one thing: I would never trust somebody I cared about to listen to a doctor with your degree of knowledge of medicine.

[scottl]

Nootropi,

1. You might re-read dopamine's post, you are making his point for him:

"When someone questions your pre-conceived notions, your amygdala flares up and the rage hits against the keyboard."

2. I really care very little what you think of me and I'm tired of tip toeing in my posts on this board for fear of offending you.

3. Unless you have already..started the process in which case I will honor my obligation, consider the favor I had asked you unasked.

[nootropi]

Nootropi,

1. You might re-read dopamine's post, you are making his point for him:

"When someone questions your pre-conceived notions, your amygdala flares up and the rage hits against the keyboard."

2. I really care very little what you think of me and I'm tired of tip toeing in my posts on this board for fear of offending you.

3. Unless you have already..started the process in which case I will honor my obligation, consider the favor I had asked you unasked.

No worries, scottl. Thanks for taking the truth in a repsonsible manner. It is okay to not be an MD, we still will be your friend.

You don't have to tiptoe around me, nobody does, only people that are distributing nonsense or distracting this forum from having fact based discussions.

Your comments and questions are still welcome here.

[scottl]

Nooi

If you are questioning my medical judgement, I sugest you re-read this thread started by cosmos on Nicergoline:

http://www.imminst.o...371

in which you blew off something which could seriously hurt someone taking nootropics (if they take a nootropic which is potent cerebral vasodilator and are old enough to have coronary disease) because "it was a case report" and you apparently do not understand the physiology.

[dopamine]

I've always known scottl to be very knowledgable on topics discussed here and at Avant Labs. I personally think these allegations are completely unwarranted.

Nootropi - I have nothing personally against you, when you are level headed and are discussing a nootopic, I take great pleasure in participating. But, when you get emotional about something, it goes in the complete opposite direction. This is not meant as an insult, but as an observation of what I have seen and noted.

[nootropi]

I've always known scottl to be very knowledgable on topics discussed here and at Avant Labs. I personally think these allegations are completely unwarranted.

Nootropi - I have nothing personally against you, when you are level headed and are discussing a nootopic, I take great pleasure in participating. But, when you get emotional about something, it goes in the complete opposite direction. This is not meant as an insult, but as an observation of what I have seen and noted.

I have no problem whatsoever with Scottl -- only the contents of some of his postings. He labeled me as (un)"biased" on a matter in which I feel emotional -- the safety of myself and the other members of this community. He labeled me as biased on a critical issue that may affect the safety of several members (and non members) of this forum -- and seems to be completely unaware of the fact that I have proven that 1fast400 has no quality control policy for their Chinese powders. In fact, representatives of 1fast400 blantantly lied and stated that there was a prodcedure for testing these questionable powders when it is apparent that they do not employ one at all. Further, 1fast400 does not allow their customers to submit samples of their products for independent testing.

I say what I think when it comes to mind; I can't cater to your needs always, dopamine; and I will speak passionately about any topic in which I feel the impulse to do so; you are encouraged to do so yourself; that is the only way this community seems to get involved in a discussion anyways.

Be well.

[Bruce Klein]

nootropi: ...I am calling you a liar.

nootropi, please check the ImmInst User Agreement and Posting Guidelines

COURTEOUS

Be polite when replying to others. .
Avoid using derogatory language.
Maintain a constructive attitude.  
Attack ideas and not people.

Posting Guidelines
 

Direct character attacks (such as the one quoted above) are inflammatory. Such attacks are discouraged in order to maintain a good level of civility which promotes constructive discussion and thus information exchange. Information exchange is vital if we're going to save lives.

Please find more diplomatic ways in which to bring your ideas across. We're all in this together. Let's find ways to help each other.

Best wishes,
-Bruce

[nootropi]

nootropi, please check the ImmInst User Agreement and Posting Guidelines

COURTEOUS

Be polite when replying to others. .
Avoid using derogatory language.
Maintain a constructive attitude. 
Attack ideas and not people.

Posting Guidelines
 

Direct character attacks (such as the one quoted above) are inflammatory. Such attacks are discouraged in order to maintain a good level of civility which promotes constructive discussion and thus information exchange. Information exchange is vital if we're going to save lives.

Please find more diplomatic ways in which to bring your ideas across. We're all in this together. Let's find ways to help each other.

Best wishes,
-Bruce

Hold on here a second, Bruce...

Let us consider that Scottl came here to this forum proclaiming he is a doctor, correct?

If scottl was indeed a doctor, then he would not be asking us to answer such questions.

I consider it dangerous to awknowlege an individual as a medical doctor if they are not; I am not a doctor, and I state that very clearly. Scottl, on the other hand, introduced himself here as a physician. Then he proceeded to ask a series of questions and comments to the members of this forum which either imply that either he did not retain the most fundamental principles in medicine or he was quite forgetful of them. Now, I never said being an MD was a requirement to post here; however, in the world in which I live, a physician's medical opinion is regarded as advise from which one can deduce a rational course of action. Now Bruce: consider that scottl's comments have clearly indicated that he does not know the difference between a placebo controlled trial and one that isn't, he does not know to discard case reports; further, I have made what I consider to be a compelling case to the members of this forum that, if we are indeed to be enhancing or extending the quality of our lives, we need to ensure that that our supplier not only claims to respect our livelihood, but takes a course of actions in which our demands for quality control are considered a top priority. Scottl has repeatedly referred to a company which does not respect this community enough to organize our own member-based quality control program. I have proven that the owner and associates of 1fast400/bulknutrition.com has even issued several false statements regarding quality control procedures.

Bruce, do you understand that I have already spoken with members of this forum regarding testing a vendor's products in exchange for store credit? The principles that I have set forth for this quality control testing underscore the fundamental values of this community: that our lives are to be respected with the utmost regard; enough so that we, the members of this forum, can work together to ensure that the very supplements that are intended to extend and enhance our lives are free of deadly contaminants; and I believe that such a vendor should be honored and any other that does not trust this community to organize programs that value our lives should be discarded. That is my opinion.

Bruce, I would also like you to submit a sample of these products, so you can see yourself the magnitude of importance that I place on the safety of the members of this forum. I do feel scottl's comments, should be not recognized as those imploring the most fundamental principle in modern medicine:

Commitment to professional competence

Physicians must be committed to lifelong learning and be responsible for maintaining the medical knowledge and clinical and team skills necessary for the provision of quality care. More broadly, the profession as a whole must strive to see that all of its members are competent and must ensure that appropriate mechanisms are available for physicians to accomplish this goal.

I rest my case. Please let me know your further thoughts on this matter, Bruce; it is great to have you commenting in this forum, we certainly appreciate your presence here.

Be well.

[magr]

I believe that such a vendor should be honored

As long as he takes money and does not send the ordered products, i don't see how he can be honored.
Otherwise it is a respectable initiative.

[nootropi]

Consider this:

DECLARATION OF PROFESSIONAL RESPONSIBILITY MEDICINE’S SOCIAL CONTRACT WITH HUMANITY

Preamble
Never in the history of human civilization has the well being of each individual been so inextricably linked to that of every other. Plagues and pandemics respect no national borders in a world of global commerce and travel. Wars and acts of terrorism enlist innocents as combatants and mark civilians as targets. Advances in medical science and genetics, while promising great good, may also be harnessed as agents of evil. The unprecedented scope and immediacy of these universal challenges demand concerted action and response by all. As physicians, we are bound in our response by a common heritage of caring for the sick and the suffering. Through the centuries, individual physicians have fulfilled this obligation by applying their skills and knowledge competently, selflessly and at times heroically. Today, our profession must reaffirm its historical commitment to combat natural and man-made assaults on the health and well being of humankind. Only by acting together across geographic and ideological divides can we overcome such powerful threats. Humanity is our patient.


Declaration We, the members of the world community of physicians, solemnly commit ourselves to:

I.  Respect human life and the dignity of every individual.

II.  Refrain from supporting or committing crimes against humanity and condemn all such acts.

III.  Treat the sick and injured with competence and compassion and without prejudice.

IV.  Apply our knowledge and skills when needed, though doing so may put us at risk.

V.  Protect the privacy and confidentiality of those for whom we care and breach that confidence only when keeping it would seriously threaten their health and safety or that of others.

VI.  Work freely with colleagues to discover, develop, and promote advances in medicine and public health that ameliorate suffering and contribute to human well-being.

VII.  Educate the public and polity about present and future threats to the health of humanity.

VIII.  Advocate for social, economic, educational, and political changes that ameliorate suffering and contribute to human well-being.

IX.  Teach and mentor those who follow us for they are the future of our caring profession.

We make these promises solemnly, freely, and upon our personal and professional honor. Adopted by the House of Delegates of the American Medical Association in San Francisco, California on December 4, 2001

[Bruce Klein]

Nootropi, i understand the concern.. but having moral supremacy does not give ImmInst members license to extol derogatories - calling one a lier. Please preempt spirals into flame war by using more diplomatic ways in which to get your ideas across.

[nootropi]

Nootropi, i understand the concern.. but having moral supremacy does not give ImmInst members license to extol derogatories - calling one a lier.  Please preempt spirals into flame war by using more diplomatic ways in which to get your ideas across.

Okay Bruce, but it was purely a matter of expediency. I consider somebody a liar if they make a statement that implies that they should be well endowed enough to be trusted with other's lives when they should not be. Consider the very name of this forum (and its mission and members) endagered by such discrepancies.

[Bruce Klein]

Thanks for your consent, nootropi. You are concerned for the health of members, thus your heart is in the right place.

[nootropi]

Thanks for your consent, nootropi.  You are concerned for the health of members, thus your heart is in the right place.

I just want to be clear that I have great respect for the medical profession and that if somebody claims to be a member of this field, expect that their statements should be held to the highest standard.

Suppose several members of the medical profession started to post comments here that indicated that they do not understand why it is of utmost importance to consider only double blind placebo controlled results for drawing conclusions, and the laymen (such as myself) or supplement sales people (such as AORsupport, who, I must admit, is an expert in the supp field although not an MD) have to remind the MDs of such matters...surely our intelligent readers will wonder why doctors have to attend medical schools...any may even stop asking their own doctors pertinent questions regarding health matters...

...So what I am saying is that if somebody says they are a physician, we should expect them to be the MOST competent in medicine; which begs the question, do you not agree?

Personally, I like scottl regardless of his education; but a doctor who needs to be reminded of the significance of peer review or the definition of double blind placebo controlled studies raises eybrows.

However, I know that you have the community's best interest in mind, and some of the terms I used could have been better chosen. I will try to use better language next time, Bruce; I apologise for my conduct and will raise my awareness. Thanks for looking out for us.

Be well.

[goddess]

nootropi, please check the ImmInst User Agreement and Posting Guidelines

I think nootropi should be banned, as he causes too many arguments at this forum. I really like this forum, but nootropi always ruins things.

[stellar]

I think nootropi should be banned, as he causes too many arguments at this forum.  I really like this forum, but nootropi always ruins things.

Another account, "Todd Lee"?

LOL