8 replies to this topic

[brainexplorer30]

Hi i have a few questions and comments about psychostimulants, maily adderall, an amphetamine. Im diagnosed with ADD, and have been taking it for 6 months. It actaully has done wonders for me. I concentrate and do alot more mental work , I mean 10 hrs is no problem, yet my tolerance is bad. I started on 20mg 2x daily. Well, now im at 30mg, 3x daily. Some would think abuse, but not really, Iv explained to my doctor, that, Adderall 30mg, lasts for 5-6 hrs tops for me. And I need about 15 hrs coverage. I have no problem sleeping on it, yet i dont get sleepy, but if i lay down ill fall asleep or just take 1mg of klonopin. So he addeed an extra dose. So take, 30mg every 6 hrs, which is perfect.
But even when i was at 30mg, 2x daily, I could not feel it like after 4 days. The medication is helping with add, but Im looking into ways to decrease tolerance. Iv read a post that one person has used memantine, and his tolerance unbelievably decreased and he had to lower his dose, but this stuff is expensive. Actually, if you look into why, NDMA antagonists, help parkinsons drugs work better, and also amphetamines. Iv read an article that L-Theaine, actually was an NDMA blocker, but iv been taking 200mg at night, and not much luck.
Iv also take this combo of supplements:

B-Complex 50mg 2x daily
Omega 3 fish oils 2-3 x day
L-Tyrosine 500mg 1x daily
DL-Phenylalanine 500mg 1x daily
NAC 600mg 1x daily
Milk Thistle 175mg 2x daily
DHEA 25mg 1x day
CoQ10 30mx 1-2x ( I dont think it was the best quality)
Rhodioa Rosia ( 300mg day)


SO, i actually read into it, and my digestive system, has been not up to par, so iv bought Papaya enzymes, Digestive herbs, and selenium and Magnesium to help the intestinal track absorb better and fucntion better. I see a bit of improvement in 5 days already.

I may lack cognitive or acetylcholinergic supplemens which may do the trick, like Acetyl-L carnitine, Phosphatydyllserine, CDP-Choline, etc. But some of the above, may help secodarily.

Anyway, I dont want to take any other type of stimulant. I do take caffiene pills and it does help a bit. Actuall coffee will create more acid stomach, so the pill form is better. Ephedra is totally out, and even so, icauses so much peripheral problems. Adderall, doesnt cause 1/4 of the anxiety ephdra causes ,and is actually more mentally stimulating.

If im confusing anyone why I want to boost this drug, is because, it has worked for me in many ways which benifited me, esp when i started, i was much more social, and clear minded, which i still am, but not like i was. I know im going to loose some effects, but i expect such, BUT i do want to try what i can in preventing tolerance naturally without doubliing up on on other stimulants. Adderall doesnt effect my Heart Rate much either. I do take .5mg of Klonopin 2x daily. WHich is not alot, and wipes out any anxiety from adderall or caffiene. Im down to .25mg actually. Where one time, I was taking 1mg 3x daily.

I have a good idea of what supplements do what, but havent tried any nootropic supplements. Memantine is too much money, and deprynl is not safe to take with amphetamines, esp MaoI's . The only other thing maybe would try some welbutrin with it, or straterra, or even Milnacepram. Yet there are other dopaminergic drugs like amantidine or survector, but survector is banned in the USA, though not illegal. I would like to try it, even if i had to stop adderall, just to give my system a break.

But you see, at a 90mg dose of adderall aday, it is not healthy to stop and take a holiday which some people say. Iv read where doing such, can mess your neurotranmitters up more. Iv taken 10 days off, and when i came back on adderall, It really made a difference, but the negative part was for the first 5 days, i was bedridden, and then after about 4 days of coming back, the effects diminshed again. My diet needs some changing , less carbs and more protien, besides that, any suggestions would be apprietiated.

NOTE: If say my tolerance decreased 20 percent id be happy. Im not looking for day 1 type effect, but, at least half way. With proper diet, Antioxidants, intestinal cleansing, and neurotransmitter precursors i figure this would help. If not, well im not sure.

Brainexplorer30

[brainexplorer30]

To all, i just postes basically the same question i posted a while back, but i didnt relalize iv done so because i havent been on this forum in a few months. I actually got the link for noortopi and its very informative. Like i said, there is no sure fire nootroopic or supplement, that will get back that 1st day effect, but im looking for a decent improvement because i feel im taking a bit high of a dose and there is something im lacking or not taking such as diet or too much or less of something that would give me more of an effect. NOT a HIGH< in no way im i looking for a high, or i would be using meth! Or better yet oxys, which i am clean for 6 month now, and adderall, klonopnn lexapro have done a great job in helping this problem/. But in a few months i dont plan on staying on drugs all my life, perscription or not, id rather nootropics at least or a good supplement combonation which actually works. It does get confusing , and everyones brain chemistry varies, so not one person can say , OK well take this and you will feel great or that.

Getting back to adderall, if this medication didnt help me like it did and still does , i would not be trying to "savior" the problem. In reality, i take 10mg lexapro, (not much at all) with 5htp, and want to switch to L-Tryphtophan, because even though its one more step towards serotonin, i believe L-Tryptophan would be a bit better. 5HTP i dont notice anything and still get moody. Even before adderall and such. Id also like to eliminate Klonopin 1mg day (not much) with phenibnut or L-Theanine, but L-theanine isnt up to par, but i feel picamilon or phenibut, both gabaenergics , would perform bettter . I dont expect any substitue for adderall, besides provigil, which is for alterness, but stilll cannot compare the two. Iv tried Ritalin, with not too good results, and dexedrine, and suprisingly i was sleeping on it!. Ya, 30mg spanuals and i could lay down and be out.! SO i went back to adderall, which does seem to give me some cognitive help. But , iv been through opiate withdrawls, bad, and nothing can evencome close, adderall is nothing, compared to opiates or GHB. withdrawl. So, id rather not stop a stimulants, because then you become innefective by sleeping your days away. And that motivation and drive is gone gone gone !! Welll thats enough posting. SOrry if i bored anyone or was too long. Id love to hear replys and id most certain relay any research i can to others.

Brainexplorer

[nootropi]

Brainexplorer;

Could you please be more conscise with your line of questioning? I do not have an hour to read your entire post.

[jokerace]

I must warn you very seriously that 90mg a day is going to cause problems. Find something else. The problem is that after several months it builds up a toxicity that will eventually lead to mania. I can tell you this with absolute certainty. Try Adderall XR and try to bump it back down to 60mg or less.

I understand that you are not doing it for pleasure. It does not change the results though. You tolerance is technically what is on the flip side of the coin, considered addiction.

The crash that you had for several days is not going away. If you stop for good, you'll have to go through this for a couple weeks at least.

The best thing to do is switch to something else. Modafinil does not provide all of the perceived benefits of amphetamines but it also does not have the side effects. It may be helpful.

I don't mean to scare you but it is important someone tells you this. Doctors will watch it happen and not say anything. I've seen it before. I think part of the reason for this is that they want to see what happens (curiousity).

[geigertube]

Brainexplorer:


I have ADD symptoms as well, (I draw all day, and I find it hard to draw for longer than 15 minutes at a stretch) and I've found the following things to be helpful-

Reduce/eliminate processed carbohydrates. No sugar/bread/etc. Try and eat as unprocessed a diet as possible. Also, try and reduce caloric intake. My focus improves dramaticly when I don't overeat.
Exercise outside. Spending time outdoors really helps to get focus back.
Breathe/meditate. Scottl had a breathing exercise that is worth trying, or there are any of a wide variety of meditation techniques that will have the same effect.
Also, sleep. Lower caffeine intake, as it interferes with melatonin production. .

I have found that sleep is very important for health. My mood and concentration improve dramaticly when I get enough good quality sleep. I suspect that for a lot of people, their problem isn't enough serotonin, but too much. We eat too much sugar and dont get enouigh sleep, and our serotonin receptors downregulate in response.


Now if I can just get myself to do all of this stuff.

Phenibut works well for anxiety, although it has tolerance issues.

Im of the opinion that most people with ADD can be treated w/o prescription medicine. Its a pain to change lifestyle, and taking pills is much easier, but I think you are better off without the prescription drugs. Particularly if you are having to take prescriptions to counteract prescriptions.

That all said, I'm not a doctor, or even a particularly well educated amateur. This is just what I found works for me. And, as always, your mileage may vary.

[scottl]

Did you see the thread on the benefits on yoga? Iyengar is easier then ashtanga and more suited to...people not already in shape. If you try it for a month or three you will really see some benefits. If nothing else, you could try restorative yoga which can be very relaxing and helpful.

Even for restorative you would be best to take a few sessions with a teacher to have them show you how to do things. Judith Lasater is the guru of restorative yoga and she has a good book:

Relax and Renew: Restful Yoga for Stressful Times

[brainexplorer30]

GUys, thanx for the info. SOrry i get carried away if my posts are too long. Anyway. Adderall XR is out of the question, because my insurance will NOT pay for it, yet they will pay for Adderall , Dex spanuals. The reason I take 90 mg, is because for months, i was on 60mg. It was not giving me the whole day effectiveness. For example, if i take 30mg at 10am, by 3pm, it wears off. So every 5 hrs, i must take another dose. Then by 8pm, i take another dose. So this, give me total coverage, and i have no problem sleeping. If i do, i will take 1mg of klonopin. But im a night owl, so i dont sleep till 4am, due to work etc, so that 3rd dose is important. Then i wake up, say 10am, average, and I take 30mg, lay down, untill i feel some energy, and then im up and at em. Yes, 30mg of XR 2x daily would be great, but it would not cover it, id rather pay 8.00 than 180.00. Or whatever it costs.

I dont plan on coming off adderall, because this medication , has helped me the most, out of every single medication iv taken in the past 5 years. I mean, SSRI's, Welbutrin Remeron, Effexor (horrible), Desipramine, exceept for MAOI's , and a few other meds, I have not had any luck, except zoloft, made me not depressed, but like emotionally numb. Xanax, Klonopin, I dont even like, but i may take .5mg 2x daily just to eliminate any anxiety. This is not much. So, with the addition to about 8 supplements, I take the adderall, which i feel 80 percent better. If i did not feel good, even after months of no meds, i end up using, opiates, maily oxycontin. I dont get high from adderall, even when i first took it, but it made me very motivated, confident, concentration, etc, which was positive. Now it feels like it decreased about 1/2 , but still works ok. BUt id like to do what i can, to make it most effective, not to get high. I never seen how , well everyone is different, but a high for me is doing a few oxy 80mg, or drinking 12 beers, or ghb. Im not gonna talk about drugs, but it is the reason why alot including myself, and my doctor also advised me, that my addiction is fueled alot by my add. Iv been through a year strainght of NA, AA, rehabs, so i know that part. I believe its a mixure of proper medication, excersice, diet, supplements, talk theropy or meeting. that will keep one mentally healthy and clean.

ADD, which i never new up untill this year, has 6 different types. THe type I have is me totally, which is, boredom, drug use, lack of motivation, lack of zest for life, energy, lethargic, etc. From reasearching this, also there is a problem, called Reward deficiency syndrom. Moresoe , i feel its does have something to do with add, but my dopaminergic system is so messsed up from years of using these drugs, like ghb, oxy alcohol, that, nothing gave me pleasure except, drugs. But once i was told about ADD, by my doctor, a specialist in addiction, esp opiate, he gave me the ADD test, and low and behold, I had the symptoms, and after starting adderall, i felt sooo much better.

But i always wanted to lookinto nootropics and even try them. Survector, used to be available, which looked promising due to its dopaminergic profile. I feel that , for years, i though my serotoinin system was the problem, but after trying every SSRI , 5-HTP, etc, didnt do much. So If i do suffer from severe ADD, Reward Deficiency syndrome, which for the most part is malfuncion in the striatum, the Nucleus Accumbens, and not properly releasing this chemical, and most likely other factors which im not aware of due to the compicity of the brain, and the opiate system, these, two neurochemical sites are the highlights of addiction and feelings of well bing and what not. If your brain is not producing the natural opiates it was used to, or dopamine it is suppose to, i see one tending to take drugs to feel better.

To wrap this up, yes adderall is a drug. And could be abuse. But i never take more than 30mg at a time, and i take 3 daily, which is high , but i need the coverage. But look at all the Ritlain kids, and such. Do they have to be on Ritalin there entire life? Do I? Im not sure, but for now, im alot better mentally, which effects my life very much , due to my past track record. $8.00 a month, or so, sure does beat spending 100 dollars a day on oxy. !

THank you and any information i would most gladly like to share.

B E

[lynx]

Extended use of adrenergics and stimulants causes CA/MG ratio to go upside down, too much serum magnesium causes excessive magnesium excretion leading to cellular magnesium depletion. This causes catecholamine overactivity, leading to further magnesium depletion. Supplement with a good form of magnesium, like glycinate, malate, citrate, taurinate and your experience of tolerance will begin to reverse.

[kwolfe]

If you suspect you're developing tolerance, you might want to consider taking a day off a week, or a weekend off a month. Use the time to relax, recharge, and rest. If you're anything like me, you'll find that after the holiday the Adderall will work better, and you'll feel better for having rested.

You might also consider taking something to boost serotonin levels, like 5-htp. I found that taking an SSRI had some effect on concentration (though, like you, nothing like Adderall). Seeing that serotonin did some have some effect on focus, I added some 5-htp to see if I could sharpen the edge a bit, and I do notice a difference.

I'm also using ALCAR and PC to boost acetylcholine levels, but I haven't been at it long enough to tell you whether that's working for me.