10 replies to this topic

[geigertube]

http://www.biopsychi...om/inositol.htm

A double-blind controlled trial of 12 g daily of inositol in 28 depressed patients for four weeks was performed. Significant overall benefit for inositol compared to placebo was found at week 4 on the Hamilton Depression Scale. No changes were noted in hematology, kidney or liver function. Since many antidepressants are effective in panic disorder, twenty-one patients with panic disorder with or without agoraphobia completed a double-blind, placebo-controlled, four week, random-assignment crossover treatment trial of inositol 12 g per day. Frequency and severity of panic attacks and severity of agoraphobia declined significantly with inositol compared to placebo. Side-effects were minimal.

Looks like pretty interesting stuff. Anyone else tried doses this high before?

[scottl]

Geiger,

I must be sensitive, because I take 500-1000 mg of inositol and it not only helps me get to sleep, but leaves me a little groggy 8 hours later.

I would start with lower doses...and be cautious.

[geigertube]

Scott,

That interesting, and I'll take it under advisement. Do you think evening would be the best time to take it?

[scottl]

It is not likely you will be as sensitive as I, but if you are going to try it, I would think it best to take the first dose later in the day in case it makes you drowsy. Also, it is not as if 1g knocks me out, it just makes me sleepy...kinda the way melatonin does.

Also, keep in mind while the stuff is cheap, I've heard it is usually sold for a lot since being a white powder it is used for cutting drugs.

What benefit are you looking for--just antidepressant? What have you tried? Simple aerobic exercises regularly can work wonders.

[geigertube]

Mostly antidepressent/anti-anxiety/anti SAD. (all of these are fairly mild, though) I currently get a 1/2 hour of brisk walking every day. It does help, as does getting plenty of sleep. I'm mostly looking to this as a method of upping the results a bit. I've always been a melancholy person, even when an (more) active youth.

I picked up a kilo from 1fast400 for ~30USD. That seemed the cheapest I could find. (Nootropi, let's take your opinion on 1fast400 as read, please )

Steven

[stellar]

I take about 5-10g per day.
For me, the feeling is nothing compared to when I take melatonin.

Let me share my "relaxation cocktail", which I have outlined in a thread on Avant Labs.

1g Glutamine
2g Taurine
700mg N-Acetyl-Cysteine (IIRC, NAC and Taurine should be used together)
3-5g Inositol
100mg Niacinamide
100mg B5
100mg B6
1 tab of Stevia (to improve the taste, sometimes I add Sugar Free Kool Aid mix as well to help out)



and cap:
500mg Green Tea
400mg Kava-Kava

---------------

Combining Inositol with any GABA promoting substance, whether it be L-Theanine, Phenibut, Picamilon, etc is good IMO.

[scottl]

Steven,

Since you have ADD tendencies (from another thread), as well as some depression and SAD, does taking a "relaxant" really make sense for you? I would wonder if it might ease the anxiety but make your other issues worse.

Try this for a week or two and see how you feel: up the physical activity and get your heart rate up for...work up to 20min/day at least 3-4 times/week with some kind of cardio. I use a nordic track and that or an ellipitcal machine are propbably easiest on the joints, but any machine or even running (if your joints tolerate it) or swimming can be used. I think (and I'm speaking from personal experience here) you will be both less anxious and less depressed.

Don't know if you saw my reply in the other thread about yoga, but that was directed at you. Very helpful, but you'll find yoga takes longer to kick in and start to see benefits than the cardio.

Stellar:

1. "IRC, NAC and Taurine should be used together"

I hadn't heard this. Any idea where you read that?

2. If you are taking large (relatively) amonts of B vitamins such as the relaxation cocktail above be sure you are taking at least a B-50 aside from the B vitamins in the cocktail).

3. Layne (str8flexed) on Avant is fairly persuasive that oral glutamine is not absorbed intact and aside from benefits to the intestinal lining is not useful. So you may want to skip this (I'd be curious if you have specific experience otherwise).

[stellar]

Stellar:

1. "IRC, NAC and Taurine should be used together"

I hadn't heard this.  Any idea where you read that?

2. If you are taking large (relatively) amonts of B vitamins such as the relaxation cocktail above be sure you are taking at least a B-50 aside from the B vitamins in the cocktail).

3. Layne (str8flexed) on Avant is fairly persuasive that oral glutamine is not absorbed intact and aside from benefits to the intestinal lining is not useful.  So you may want to skip this (I'd be curious if you have specific experience otherwise).

Scott:

1. I am not diabetic, but these articles are just one example why I believe NAC supplementation alongside Taurine is important.

Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Oct;285(4):E744-53. Epub 2003 Jun
10. Related Articles, Links
Click here to read
N-acetylcysteine and taurine prevent hyperglycemia-induced insulin
resistance in vivo: possible role of oxidative stress.

Haber CA, Lam TK, Yu Z, Gupta N, Goh T, Bogdanovic E, Giacca A,
Fantus IG.

Department of Medicine, Mount Sinai Hospital, 60 Murray Street,
Toronto, Ontario, Canada M5G 1X5.

Exposure to high concentrations of glucose and insulin results in
insulin resistance of metabolic target tissues, a characteristic feature
of type 2 diabetes. High glucose has also been associated with oxidative
stress, and increased levels of reactive oxygen species have been
proposed to cause insulin resistance. To determine whether oxidative
stress contributes to insulin resistance induced by hyperglycemia in
vivo, nondiabetic rats were infused with glucose for 6 h to maintain a
circulating glucose concentration of 15 mM with and without coinfusion
of the antioxidant N-acetylcysteine (NAC), followed by a 2-h
hyperinsulinemic-euglycemic clamp. High glucose (HG) induced a
significant decrease in insulin-stimulated glucose uptake
[tracer-determined disappearance rate (Rd), control 41.2 +/- 1.7 vs. HG
32.4 +/- 1.9 mg. kg-1. min-1, P < 0.05], which was prevented by NAC (HG
+ NAC 45.9 +/- 3.5 mg. kg-1. min-1). Similar results were obtained with
the antioxidant taurine. Neither NAC nor taurine alone altered Rd. HG
caused a significant (5-fold) increase in soleus muscle protein carbonyl
content, a marker of oxidative stress that was blocked by NAC, as well
as elevated levels of malondialdehyde and 4-hydroxynonenal, markers of
lipid peroxidation, which were reduced by taurine. In contrast to
findings after long-term hyperglycemia, there was no membrane
translocation of novel isoforms of protein kinase C in skeletal muscle
after 6 h. These data support the concept that oxidative stress
contributes to the pathogenesis of hyperglycemia-induced insulin
resistance.

PMID: 12799318 [PubMed - in process]

and


"Comparative Trial of N-Acetyl-Cysteine, Taurine, and Oxerutin on Skin and Kidney Damage in Long-Term Experimental Diabetes"
http://diabetes.diab...t/full/52/2/499




2. Yes, I take B-100 every day


3. I was not aware of that. I might read what he says, but I do feel that mix makes quite a bit of a difference with the Glutamine rather than without. I'm not sure why.....

[geigertube]

Steven,

Since you have ADD tendencies (from another thread), as well as some depression and SAD, does taking a "relaxant" really make sense for you?  I would wonder if it might ease the anxiety but make your other issues worse. 

Yeah, it depends. I was unaware of the relaxant properties of Inositol.. was mostly interested in the serotonin receptor resensitizing. Phenibut makes me very focused and alert, (at least on anything that doesnt require a lot of mental effort. I cant draw at 100% on it, for instance) yet calm. So I think I might do okay. I'll mostly just have to try it and see. As far as more traditional stimulant therapy goes, I have something of a bell curve response with stimulants calming me down. Low doses work well and actually reduce anxiety, but past a point (3 cups of coffee/day for instance) I get really jittery and nervous.. and I mentioned the tyrosine sensitivity... Ive mostly just been trying different things to see how I react to them, but unfortunately I'm having a hard time sorting out real vs placebo reactions., at least as far as anxiety goes.

Really, I've noticed I do much better as far as focus goes without stimulants at all. I skipped coffee and ate just enough to keep hunger pangs away a few days ago and found my ability to concentrate increased dramaticly. I picked up some chlorella and that works great for curbing excessive eating.

I probably sound like I'm all over the map here, but I am slowly figuring out what works for me.

Try this for a week or two and see how you feel:  up the physical activity and get your heart rate up for...work up to 20min/day at least 3-4 times/week with some kind of cardio.  I use a nordic track and that or an ellipitcal machine are propbably easiest on the joints, but any machine or even running (if your joints tolerate it) or swimming can be used.  I think (and I'm speaking from personal experience here) you will be both less anxious and less depressed.

Don't know if you saw my reply in the other thread about yoga, but that was directed at you.  Very helpful, but you'll find yoga takes longer to kick in and start to see benefits than the cardio.

Ah, I didn't know that. thanks.. My only problem with yoga it keeping up doing it. I used to do hatha yoga for a while, but fell out of the habit as stress increased. Its really hard to make myself do something as focused as yoga when im frazzled. Walking helps a lot, and its easy to do because its pretty mindless, so maybe I'll try yoga after walking. I started running a month ago, but its gotten cold enough here now that running in this weather is really rough on my lungs.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Steven

[stellar]

Geiger:

Drop the coffee and go with green tea.
I purchase it from Beyond-A-Century, its 40% EGCG. One cup is equal to 4 cups of "regular" green tea.
You can put inositol in that too, along with niacinamide. It's really groovy....

[scottl]

Stellar,

Par (the head of avant posted this on the rugged forum (lifting/bodybuilding...):

About 40-60% of glutamine survives the gut. This is not exactly bad compared to alot of things.

I am one who thinks that glutamine is used by the gut for a reason -- and, as mentioned, it is because is the main source of ATP for a number of processes in the intestine, most importantly reapir and nutrient uptake.

It also increases liver ATP and cell-volume which is a fed state signal.

Layne has made this a pet peeve, and he is right about much of the nonsense he is trying to combat, but he misses the big picture, IMO