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Anecdotal report for ALCAR-Arginate


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#1 stellar

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 12:56 AM


"TP" wrote in message news:10t5u93i5ut8249@corp.supernews.com...
I changed the way I take LEF's new product and am now happy with it. I might have been suffering from some pre-existing gastric distress when I took my first dose a bit before lunch the first time. Others around me have complained of gastric distress and speedy feeling that I described and they don't take any of these substances. It looks like there was a Christmas GI bug going around. Right now I have some time off from working 6 or 7 intense 12 hour days a week. So I have the luxury of sleeping in. I get up habitually when the alarm would have gone off had it been a work day, take my 3 capsules of Acetyl L-Carntine-Arginate then go back to sleep. I have no problem going right back to sleep. I don't feel jittery or energized by the stuff. I do feel very clear and in need of very little extra stimulants like coffee or tea during the day. I did so much prefer those stimulants during the day when I was getting enough sleep before I got into the massive work schedule. What I can tell is that my mind has become very single focused in a way I don't remember it being for years. When I'm in the middle of doing something I don't suddenly wonder what the weather will be like for the next week and go hit weather.com or walk over to the newspaper. My conversations are a lot more single pointed. I don't feel the impulse to make conversations ramble around. I do feel a whole lot more like doing productive things with my time rather than just screwing around. The Internet has gone back to being what it was when Mosaic was the www browser: a way to place orders for things online, to exchange a limited number of emails and to gather some news and information. The Internet has gone back to being a utility for me, not an endless source of diversion I need to tear myself away from. I noticed some of this single pointedness creeping in when I started taking the 'Pram. But the effect has become much more profound since beginning the Acetyl L-Carnitine-Arginate I'll attribute the change to it.

#2 scottl

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 01:02 AM

"I noticed some of this single pointedness creeping in when I started taking the 'Pram. But the effect has become much more profound since beginning the Acetyl L-Carnitine-Arginate I'll attribute the change to it."

Sounds like he is taking pram and L-Carnitine-Arginate...interesting....

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#3

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 01:32 AM

Scott, quick note, the supposed NO excess problem with Pramiracetam is not actually a problem. At optimal nootropic dosages the effect is non-existant.

Even if it was a problem there are good NO scavengers available. Such NO scavengers include Green tea extract ECGC, and NAC.

I already read that post on rec.drugs.smart. ALCAR-Arginate has peaked my interest, but studies are still lacking (safety is less of an issue compared to efficacy, whether it is truly a nootropic).

#4 lynx

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 03:29 PM

I too have been enjoying ALCAR-arginate. I take it in the Mitochondrial Optimizer formula from LEF, which I think is very well designed. I have always been a fan of LEF and have been a member for years. As far as I can tell, their multivitamin is the most comprehensive and best value around.

My fondness for ALCAR-arginate might be a highly individual reaction, due to a nNOS polymorphism that I most likely have, resulting in lower nNOS activity and consequent reduction in neurotrophic factors. I suspect I have this nNOS variant, because it is associated with Pyloric Stenosis, which I had as an infant. Or it could be the SODases in the Mitochondrial Optimizer, either way, I am pleased as usual with LEF.

#5 lemon

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 04:36 PM

I'm also pleased with the Life Extension Mix. The mix is always being tweaked and updated. You can get membership prices for LE Mix at BAC as well.

#6 stellar

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 05:04 PM

Lynx, you have been holding out on us!!!!
How long have you been taking it? Have you been noticing similar effects as the report I posted?

#7

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 06:39 PM

I have praise for LEF (and AOR), they're both excellent places to buy supplements. I'm just holding out for a cheaper bulk source of ALCAR-Arginate.

#8 lynx

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 06:50 PM

I got it about 3 weeks ago, during the yearly sale, when I buy all of my LEF supplements. I used to take ChronoForte, with ALCAR etc, and then switched to the Mitochondrial Optimizer just because I liked the overall formula better.

If I can relate to one thing that the guy said from his report, I would characterize it as relief from pervasive urgency, a feeling which has haunted me on and off most of my life.

#9 stellar

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Posted 31 December 2004 - 05:06 AM

Lynx what is your stack/supplement schedule?

#10 stellar

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Posted 31 December 2004 - 11:47 PM

"TP" wrote in message news:10tb6u23f2lbm0f@corp.supernews.com...
I'm finding more things going on with the Acetyl L-Carnitine-Arginate as the days go on. Mind you I don't take the stuff in isolation. I've also been taking 'Pram (for a few weeks), plus Idebenone, Vinpocetine, Alpha GPC, RNA, Magnesium and LEF's Life Extension Mix. I'm attributing the results to the Acetyl L-Carnitine-Arginate because the results are coming so quickly upon my starting the stuff.

The ALCA does have an anorexic effect on me. I notice I get less hungry less often and when I do get hungry, I find I'm satisfied with less. I also find that if I've put off my evening meal to too late at night because of other matters and I don't want to eat too much so late at night I can tell myself to stop. I might feel ravenously hungry but I can exert mind control over matter and eventually the stomach stops trying to hold me hostage and gives up.

I find I'm going for the chores I so easily put off for any other reason. Yesterday I finished my 2003 income taxes. I had all sorts of outs all along the way for not finishing them with relocations, work and other responsibilities. Plus I knew the IRS would be owing me a refund. Not a really big refund and considering how low interest rates are these days, it's not like I was giving the IRS a great big free loan during high interest rate times. I could have put the thing off longer yet. It was a glorious day out yesterday and I have some time to relax from grueling work hours. Yet I just decided to set to it and finish it. I was amazed how easily it went. No thinking that I could be doing something else, no mind wandering elsewhere because this was distasteful. Indeed, it wasn't distasteful. It went easier than it had in many years. When I finished it, I didn't feel like I had accomplished some big thing and now it was time to celebrate. It was just another tick on the list of things that need to get done.

I'm putting the anorexic effect, the ability to tell my stomach it's not going to get any more at this late night supper and doing the chores I so easily put off all into the same basket. I have gotten into the habit of eating too much. The anorexia is good. So good for me that it could be viewed not as anorexia but as normalization of food intake. Telling my stomach its had enough for now could be viewed as normalization. Throwing away the excuses and getting the chores done could be viewed as normalization. It's as though some part of the brain turned off and allowed me to drift into bad habits over the last so many years and the ALCA turned that part of the brain back on.

I've not become compulsive or manic from the ALCA as far as I can tell. Indeed getting to work and getting things done gives me the opportunity to then go and enjoy myself and other people with a lot more sincerity. There isn't this pile up of things I should have gotten done nagging at me the way it used to when I took my leisure. I'm seeing a bigger picture of things and how being a workaholic at this or that thing is a great way of coping out from putting time into stuff that's ultimately more productive for me.

I'm at a loss as to just what to call the effect the ALCA is having on me. An anti-addictive? I seemed to had become addicted to doing unproductive things and avoiding doing certain productive things. An anti-depressant? I guess one could always designate doing counter-productive things as a sign of depression. As an energizer? I had plenty of energy before. I was just spending it on things that were less productive. Indeed I seem to be a lot mellower now than before I started using the ALCA. I do seem now to have an endless supply of energy to get done what needs to get done. Not the type of energy you see a football team infused with as they come out of the locker room after halftime. Perhaps not getting or feeling tired doing something that needs to be done is a better way of describing the energy. As an anti-attention deficit disorder agent? I don't think so. I had no problem concentrating on lots of things before. The best thing I can come up with is that the ALCA acts as an organizer or focuser For me it seems to organize/focus the thoughts and motivations so that I'm not torn between <>. Somehow it all just makes really good sense that if I do this first then I'll have more time and a freer mind and conscience to do that.

I would love to see the LEF product tested on people who seem to have their priorities out of order, like many of the homeless in the US who boost (shoplift), beg, fly signs (stand at intersections with signs that say Homeless Vet Will Work for Food), deal drug and engage in male and female prostitution. We have many thousands of such people in Austin. Most of these people I describe agree that the addiction is bad and self-destructive. That their way of "earning" a "living" is not productive. That sleeping outside fighting the elements isn't a whole lot of fun. Most will admit that they lead a life of desperation. Many of these people actually do have homes to go to with friends or relatives. Many have left programs which provided shelter, food, counseling and job training. Many can go back to jobs or get ones where they could use their trade such as auto mechanic or carpenter. It would be interesting to see if this product could provide the ability to focus and organize priorities such that some of these people decide to go back to pursuing a more rewarding lifestyle. Assuming, of course, that the organizing and focusing power of ALCA works for more than just a sample on one.

#11 pinballwizard

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Posted 01 January 2005 - 03:25 AM

"TP" wrote in message news:10tb6u23f2lbm0f@corp.supernews.com...
I'm finding more things going on with the Acetyl L-Carnitine-Arginate as the days go on.  Mind you I don't take the stuff in isolation.  I've also been taking 'Pram (for a few weeks), plus Idebenone, Vinpocetine, Alpha GPC, RNA, Magnesium and LEF's Life Extension Mix.  I'm attributing the results to the Acetyl L-Carnitine-Arginate because the results are coming so quickly upon my starting the stuff.

The ALCA does have an anorexic effect on me.  I notice I get less hungry less often and when I do get hungry, I find I'm satisfied with less.  I also find that if I've put off my evening meal to too late at night because of other matters and I don't want to eat too much so late at night I can tell myself to stop.  I might feel ravenously hungry but I can exert mind control over matter and eventually the stomach stops trying to hold me hostage and gives up.

I find I'm going for the chores I so easily put off for any other reason.  Yesterday I finished my 2003 income taxes.  I had all sorts of outs all along the way for not finishing them with relocations, work and other responsibilities.  Plus I knew the IRS would be owing me a refund.  Not a really big refund and considering how low interest rates are these days, it's not like I was giving the IRS a great big free loan during high interest rate times.  I could have put the thing off longer yet.  It was a glorious day out yesterday and I have some time to relax from grueling work hours.  Yet I just decided to set to it and finish it.  I was amazed how easily it went.  No thinking that I could be doing something else, no mind wandering elsewhere because this was distasteful.  Indeed, it wasn't distasteful.  It went easier than it had in many years.  When I finished it, I didn't feel like I had accomplished some big thing and now it was time to celebrate.  It was just another tick on the list of things that need to get done.

I'm putting the anorexic effect, the ability to tell my stomach it's not going to get any more at this late night supper and doing the chores I so easily put off all into the same basket.  I have gotten into the habit of eating too much.  The anorexia is good.  So good for me that it could be viewed not as anorexia but as normalization of food intake. Telling my stomach its had enough for now could be viewed as normalization.  Throwing away the excuses and getting the chores done could be viewed as normalization.  It's as though some part of the brain turned off and allowed me to drift into bad habits over the last so many years and the ALCA turned that part of the brain back on. 

I've not become compulsive or manic from the ALCA as far as I can tell.  Indeed getting to work and getting things done gives me the opportunity to then go and enjoy myself and other people with a lot more sincerity.  There isn't this pile up of things I should have gotten done nagging at me the way it used to when I took my leisure.  I'm seeing a bigger picture of things and how being a workaholic at this or that thing is a great way of coping out from putting time into stuff that's ultimately more productive for me.

I'm at a loss as to just what to call the effect the ALCA is having on me.  An anti-addictive?  I seemed to had become addicted to doing unproductive things and avoiding doing certain productive things.  An anti-depressant?  I guess one could always designate doing counter-productive things as a sign of depression.  As an energizer?  I had plenty of energy before.  I was just spending it on things that were less productive.  Indeed I seem to be a lot mellower now than before I started using the ALCA.  I do seem now to have an endless supply of energy to get done what needs to get done.  Not the type of energy you see a football team infused with as they come out of the locker room after halftime.  Perhaps not getting or feeling tired doing something that needs to be done is a better way of describing the energy.  As an anti-attention deficit disorder agent?  I don't think so.  I had no problem concentrating on lots of things before.  The best thing I can come up with is that the ALCA acts as an organizer or focuser  For me it seems to organize/focus the thoughts and motivations so that I'm not torn between <>.  Somehow it all just makes really good sense that if I do this first then I'll have more time and a freer mind and conscience to do that.

I would love to see the LEF product tested on people who seem to have their priorities out of order, like many of the homeless in the US who boost (shoplift), beg, fly signs (stand at intersections with signs that say Homeless Vet Will Work for Food), deal drug and engage in male and female prostitution.  We have many thousands of such people in Austin.  Most of these people I describe agree that the addiction is bad and self-destructive.  That their way of "earning" a "living" is not productive. That sleeping outside fighting the elements isn't a whole lot of fun. Most will admit that they lead a life of desperation.  Many of these people actually do have homes to go to with friends or relatives.  Many have left programs which provided shelter, food, counseling and job training.  Many can go back to jobs or get ones where they could use their trade such as auto mechanic or carpenter.  It would be interesting to see if this product could provide the ability to focus and organize priorities such that some of these people decide to go back to pursuing a more rewarding lifestyle.  Assuming, of course, that the organizing and focusing power of ALCA works for more than just a sample on one.


It would be nice to know the duration he started taking the other items besides 'pram. Also, if he noticed effects from them? Also, what is his experience with nootropics.

#12 lynx

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 03:40 AM

Lynx what is your stack/supplement schedule?


LEF Multi- 9 tabs/day
LEF Mitochondrial Optimizer 8 caps/day
LEF Mega Green Tea- 3 caps/day 3/days week
LEF Super Booster 1 cap/day
LEF CoQ10 super absorbable
LEF Cognitex w/preg 3cap/day
Pyridoxamine--100mg/day
Carnosine-1000mg/day-in addition to LEF Mito Optimizer
Grape Seed Extract 200mg/day
LEF Indole 3-Carbinole/w Resveratrol-- 400mg/day
LEF Mineral Formula for Women- Cal/mag/vit d(vit d is an underrecognized antioxidant)

LEF or Costco NatureMade SAMe, depending on price/discount 400-800mg/day

Deprenyl 1mg/day
Aniracetam 500mg/day
Centrophenoxine 200mg/day
PBN 200 mg/day--waiting for more nTBHA, also 200 mg/day
DHEA 30-50 mg/day
6-OXO 200 mg/day--2 weeks on/off
NAC-600 mg/day in addition to what is in LEF Multi
Vit C, ascorbic acid 2000 mg/day, in addition to LEF multi
Pyritinol--100-500mg/day depending
Vinpocetine-10-30 mg/day, in addition to LEF Cognitex
SesaThin by AvantLabs, 1.5-6grams/day
Fish Oil, Costco enteric coated, concentrate--4-10 grams/day
KR-ALA 200-400 mg/day, occassionally, as needed, in addition to LEF Mito Optim

Nicergoline 5-30 mg/day
Hydergine 4.5mg/day
Bromocriptine for sleep 2.5-5mg as needed
OR
Melatonin(LEF) 3mg, time released as needed

Occasional Chocamine, Rhodiola, Idebenone and other stuff I can't think of.

Occasional 1-2 week Tianeptine, after very helpful 2 month course


As you can see most of my stuff is LEF, not only because of purity, but because I think the formula's are excellent. Also, if you buy during the Yearly Sale, every December, the prices are not that high. People can talk about getting this/that ingredient more cheaply than from LEF, but, for example, to try to duplicate the LEF multi would cost easily $2-300/month, versus $45/month from Yearly Sale.

Edited by lynx, 06 January 2005 - 05:57 PM.


#13 nootropi

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 04:43 AM

Good thinking, lynx. Well balanced regimen. I must agree with your heavy ergot-derivative usage. I have found the best results only after six or more months of consistent dosage. I do not understand bromocriptine at bedtime. It is supposed to be ingested with meals. Nicergoline and hydergine are an excellent long-term neuroprotective team; if taken starting at an early enough age and consistently, I believe cognitive losses will never affect us.

I value that you value purity. It is the number one concern for life extensionists; for let us suppose that, in the "best case scenario" that 1/50 supplements we ingest have a contaminant. Life-extensionists such as ourselves would be largely obtuse to disregard the safety and integrity of the products that we take if in fact 1/50 have small levels of lead, mercury, arsenic, or any other deadly contaminant. In the market for supplements, as in any market, supply and demand determine the price of a product. Now, in this world of cost-cutting in the name of profits, never let your life become a victim of someone's pure profit motive. Because no matter how rational it may be to save money on life extension tools, it shows a real lack of common sense to not demand that the products that enter into our bodies are food grade or better; and as you already apparently know, in the world of buyer beware, our ignorance and submission to products not tested by a third party for contaminants make life extensionists, ironic as it may be, and as highlighted by AORsupport, may be why one day, we may be gathering around the life-extensionists early grave wondering how, although he or she took 100 different life extension supplements, he or she died such a young, unfortunate death.

Thank you lynx, for sharing with us.

Interested reader: click here

Edited by nootropi, 06 January 2005 - 05:15 AM.


#14 scottl

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 05:03 AM

Lynx,

RE: sesamin,

From my bottle of caps it looks like the normal dose is 750 mg twice a day and for people who gain weight easily 1500 mg X 2/day. What made you decide to take up to 6g/day and has it been helpful?

"(vit d is an underrecognized antioxidant)"

Didn't know it was an antioxidant but the optimum dose is probably much more then is commonly stated e.g. probably at least 1000 IU/day. I take 1600 IU/day (but I have a special need for more).

#15 lynx

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 05:57 PM

Scott,

I made a mistake on that one, actually I take between 1.5-6 grams. I did six initially, and now only when my diet descends to the fast-food range.

I think higher is better because PPARalpha activators not only increase peroxisome activity, but also proteasome activity. I will probably cycle the Sesathin eventually, but right now, I am digging it.

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#16 stellar

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Posted 13 January 2005 - 06:53 PM

Took a look at the LEF Mitochondrial Optimizer formula. It looks really good and I thought about trying it but then I saw the doseages of Carnosine. 1g? That's too high for me, I took 500mgx2 per day and had increased allergic reaction and facial twitching.
I couldn't imagine taking 2g like Lynx.
Carnosine works best for me when I don't take over 300mg per day.




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