24 replies to this topic

[jep]

Hello everyone,

It appears that Ortho Core has recently been reformulated. Comparing the ingredients on their website with the most recent bottle I've purchased, it appears that the following changes have been made:

Complete removal of...

Chlorophyllin complex (150mg)
Pomegranate extract (100mg)
Sulforaphane (from broccoli sprout extract) (7.1mg)
alpha carotene (1.6mg)
zeaxanthin (314mcg)
beta-tocopherol (2mg)
beta-tocotrienol (0.3mg)
strontium citrate (1.5mg)
Co-Enzyme Q10 (30mg)
Green tea extract (140mg)


Reduction in...

Beta-carotene (from 6mg to 1.8mg)
Cryptoxanthin (from 300mcg to 250mcg)
Lycopene (from 10mg to 5mg)
Mixed Citrus Bioflavonoids (from 100mg to 25mg)
Quercetin dihydrate (from 76mg to 65mg)
gamma-tocopherol (from 60mg to 13.8mg)
gamma-tocotrienol (6mg to 3mg)


Increase in...

Retinol palmitate (from 150mcg to 200mcg)
Alpha-tocopherol (from 15mg to 99.6mg)
Delta-tocopherol (from 24mg to 58.2mg)
alpha-tocotrienol (3mg to 10mg)
delta-tocotrienol (1.3mg to 5.5mg)


Changed...

R(+)-lipoic acid (150mg) to Alpha-Lipoic Acid (150mg)


Addition of...

Grape seed extract (85% Oligomeric proanthocyanidins) (100mg)


I'm by no means an expert on supplementation, however I do try to keep up with what I can as I'm HIV+, have been for 26 years, am extremely healthy and wish to remain that way! I wondered if I could get some feedback from the community on these changes, and in particular whether I should be considering a change in multivitamin? If I continue to take Ortho Core, it means I'm going to have to supplement Co-Q10, green tea, lycopene, and likely pomegranate extract separately (all things my doctors have highly recommended), this, of course adding to the (not-so-insignificant) cost.

If I am better off changing, what do you all consider a good substitute? I have read about the Vimmortal supplement, and while it looks good, the cost, particularly when I need to import it into Europe and pay duties etc does make it a little prohibitive.

A little about my lifestyle/health:

41 year old male, HIV+ 26 years, CD4 720, Viral Load Undetectable. No major health concerns (aches and pains, slight fatty liver, some neuropathy which they cannot find a cause for). I eat a reasonably well balanced diet most of the time (an everything in moderation approach), take only light exercise (mostly walking and swimming). I gave up smoking more than 10 years ago and only drink occasionally (no more than about 5-6 units a week, not all on one day). I don't want to get as serious as some of you with diets/supplementation. That perhaps sounds strange to some, but I've done quite well getting to where I am doing the things I do/have done, and figure if it 'aint broke! I prefer to take as few supplements as possible, and a good multi needs to be a major part of that, along with "top-ups" of other important nutrients. Others which I'm currently taking are AOR Omega Cardio (1 twice daily), Holland and Barrett Vitamin C time-released (1000 mg) (1 twice daily), Good 'n Natural Vit D3 (5000 IU) (1 daily), Nature's Bounty Melatonin (5 mg) (2-4 nightly at the suggestion of my doctors) and Heliocare (1-2 daily).

Thanks in advance and if any more information about my health/lifestyle is required, I'm happy to answer!

Josh.

Edited by jep, 16 June 2011 - 11:40 AM.

[Spectre]

Have you read the recent article of a man who received a bone marrow transplant and was successfully cured of his HIV? Ortho-core is a great vitamin. I personally like Life Force by Source Naturals and the value cannot be beat. I recommend supplementing with some Acetyl-l-carnitine and magnesium ascorbate.

http://www.ktla.com/...0,2205566.story

Edited by Spectre, 16 June 2011 - 06:32 PM.

[curious_sle]

aw, that sucks... i liked ortho-core but looks like i might have to change my multi :-(

[markymark]

aw, that sucks... i liked ortho-core but looks like i might have to change my multi :-(

Yes I agree Why did they do this? These changes render the Ortho Core much less attractive!!
Maybe it has something to do with the EU-Traditional Herbal Medicinal Products Directive (THMPD)....
Did somebody e-mail them?

[jep]

I emailed them. No response yet.

[jep]

Spectre,

Yes, I did read about that case and have been following it. It's very interesting and being studied/watches very closely by many.

Ortho Core was a great multi. This reformulation though makes it a rather overpriced one for me.

[niner]

It's mostly a reduction of expensive items and an increase in cheap ones, so overall I'd say it's a cost cutting move. There are a couple things where you might make a fair argument that they don't belong in a multi.

[hbar]

I use AOR's Multi Basics, which I'd actually consider a better multi than Ortho Core. Some of the non-vitamin/mineral stuff in Ortho Core I'm not sure I'd really want to take anyway (like the CoQ10 and ALA), and the green tea extract amount is low - if you really wanted to take GTE, you'd probably need to take a separate supplement anyway. And to even get the full amounts of those substances (which are already low) you have to take the full 6 pills of Ortho Core, which is a lot. If you're taking a fraction of the full dose then you're getting even less.

My preference with a multi is that it just has the basics of vitamins and minerals. That's what Multi Basics does - and the vitamins/minerals in it are nearly identical to Ortho Core (at least the old formulation) without the extra stuff added into it. I wonder, though, if a reformulation of Multi Basics is in the works now as well.

Has there been some new research into Vit E lately? It looks like the alpha and delta versions of the tocopherols/tocotrienols are getting significant boosts while the betas and gammas are getting gutted. I thought gamma tocopherol was supposed to be beneficial?

Also interesting that the carotene amounts are getting gutted, while retinyl palmitate is getting boosted. But the retinol bump is hardly compensating for the reduction in beta carotene, so the overall amount of Vitamin A will be significantly lower.

I'd definitely be interested to hear why they're making some of these changes.

[9H}@}C\%kmFHOB#?X]

I thought this was just the difference between the CA and US formulations. If you look at Ortho Core on their US site, it doesn't show any of those changes: http://www.aorhealth...ucts.php?id=189

Edit: On closer look, it shows some of them. But not sure if those are changes or how long they've been that way.

Edited by Watson, 17 June 2011 - 09:27 PM.

[brundall]

I use AOR's Multi Basics, which I'd actually consider a better multi than Ortho Core. Some of the non-vitamin/mineral stuff in Ortho Core I'm not sure I'd really want to take anyway (like the CoQ10 and ALA), and the green tea extract amount is low - if you really wanted to take GTE, you'd probably need to take a separate supplement anyway. And to even get the full amounts of those substances (which are already low) you have to take the full 6 pills of Ortho Core, which is a lot. If you're taking a fraction of the full dose then you're getting even less.

My preference with a multi is that it just has the basics of vitamins and minerals. That's what Multi Basics does - and the vitamins/minerals in it are nearly identical to Ortho Core (at least the old formulation) without the extra stuff added into it. I wonder, though, if a reformulation of Multi Basics is in the works now as well.

Has there been some new research into Vit E lately? It looks like the alpha and delta versions of the tocopherols/tocotrienols are getting significant boosts while the betas and gammas are getting gutted. I thought gamma tocopherol was supposed to be beneficial?

Also interesting that the carotene amounts are getting gutted, while retinyl palmitate is getting boosted. But the retinol bump is hardly compensating for the reduction in beta carotene, so the overall amount of Vitamin A will be significantly lower.

I'd definitely be interested to hear why they're making some of these changes.

Multibasics has just been reformulated as well. http://www.aor.ca/ht...ucts.php?id=142

[nameless]

Not sure why they'd make those changes, except for cost savings reasons, like Niner mentioned. Curious what they will reply with.

I also noticed a change in the selenium source for both Core and Basics, from Se-Methylselenocysteine to Selenomethionine.

[Mike C]

[quote name='hbar' timestamp='1308318606' post='467368']

Has there been some new research into Vit E lately? It looks like the alpha and delta versions of the tocopherols/tocotrienols are getting significant boosts while the betas and gammas are getting gutted. I thought gamma tocopherol was supposed to be beneficial?


Or was the move to gamma a poor decision in the 1st place? It may be noteworthy that the Linus Pauling Institute never wavered in their reccomendation of alpha tocopheral supplementation of 200 i.u daily even after considering the whole Gamma rationale.

Mike

[August59]

Didn't they change "Folic Acid" to "5-MTF" (a good thing). The amount of CoQ10 was insignificant as well as Lipoic Acid (for my needs any way), but may fit others well. They may have wanted to cut cost due to changing Folic Acid to 5-MTF due to 5-MTF being more expensive due to Merck holding a patent or license on it or something of that nature.

[jep]

Well, their long awaited response has arrived. They needn't have bothered!

depends when you visited our website. If you go onto the website now you will find correct information.

Some of the changes are due to Health Canada's requirement of changes before they issue an NPN- natural product number which is a must for any product to be sold in Canada.

AOR Tech

[9H}@}C\%kmFHOB#?X]

Well, their long awaited response has arrived. They needn't have bothered!

depends when you visited our website. If you go onto the website now you will find correct information.

Some of the changes are due to Health Canada's requirement of changes before they issue an NPN- natural product number which is a must for any product to be sold in Canada.

AOR Tech

If that's true, then there are definitely two different formulations of Ortho Core. Look at Ortho Core on the Canadian and non-Canadian (United States?) websites:

Canadian: http://www.aor.ca/ht...ducts.php?id=96

Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 6 Capsules Amount Per Serving
Vitamins
Vitamin A Complex
-Retinol (Palmitate) 200mcg/110 mcg RAE
Natural-Source Mixed Carotenoids:


Beta-carotene 1.8 mg
Cryptoxanthin 250mcg 208 IU
Lutein 6.8mg
Astaxanthin 2mg
Lycopene 5mg
Vitamin B Complex
B1 (Thiamine) 9mg
B2 (Riboflavin) 2.5mg
B3 (Niacin)(as 126 mg Inositol Hexanicotinate) 115mg
B5 (d-Ca Pantothenate) 100mg
B6 (Pyridoxal 5' Phosphate) 100mg
B12 (Methylcobalamin) 647mcg
Folic Acid (5-methyltetrahydrofolate) 800mcg
Biotin 300mcg
Choline (from Bitartrate) 100mg
Inositol 100mg
Vitamin C Complex
-Vitamin C (as Magnesium Ascorbate) 120mg
-Mixed Citrus Bioflavonoids 25mg
Vitamin D3 (Cholecalciferol) 25mcg 1000 IU
Vitamin E Complex
Mixed Tocopherols:
RRR-Alpha-Tocopherol 99.6mg
Gamma-Tocopherol 13.8mg
Delta-Tocopherol 58.2mg
Mixed Tocotrienols: 27.6mg
alpha-tocotrienol 10mg
gamma-tocotrienol 3mg
delta-tocotrienol 5.5mg
Vitamin K2 Menatetrenone 120mcg
MINERALS
Boron (Citrate) 700mcg
Calcium (Calcium carbonate, Citrate-Malate, d-Ca Pantothenate) 300mg
Chromium (Picolinate) 100mcg
Copper (Citrate) 1.5mg
Iodine (Potassium Iodide) 150mcg
Magnesium (Aspartate, Oxide, Ascorbate, Chlorophyllin) 210mg
Potassium (Chloride) 50mg
Manganese (Glycinate) 2.3mg
Molybdenum (Na Molybdate) 45mcg
Selenium (Selenomethionine) 55mcg
Silicon (Na Metasilicate) 25mg
Vanadium (Picolinate) 18mcg
Zinc (Citrate) 11mg
Phytonutrients & Antioxidants
Trans-Resveratrol 1.8mg
Grape Seed Extract (85% Oligomeric proanthocyanidins) 100mg
Alpha-Lipoic Acid 150mg
N-Acetylcysteine (NAC) 200mg
Quercetin (dihydrate) 65mg
Non-medicinal ingredients: Zeaxanthin, chlorophyllin copper complex, broccoli extract, gelatin, vegetable oil, sucrose, silicon dioxide, maltodextrin, Acacia gum, coconut oil. Capsule; hypromellose, water.

Non-Canadian (United States?): http://www.aorhealth...ucts.php?id=189

Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 1 Capsule
Per Capsule Per Day 6 Capsule
Amount % DV Amount % DV
Vitamin A Complex 1970IU 40% 11820IU 237%
- Retinol (palmitate) 83 IU † 500 IU †
- Alpha-carotene 222 IU † 1332 IU †
- Beta-carotene 1665 IU † 9990 IU †
Vitamin C (Magnesium Ascorbate) 20 mg 33% 120 mg 200%
Vitamin D (Cholecalciferol) 166 IU 41.70% 1000 IU 250%
Vitamin E (as alpha-tocopherol) 3.7 IU 12.17% 22 IU 73%
Vitamin K2 (Menatetrenone [MK-4]) 20 mcg 25% 120 mcg 150%
Thiamin (Vitamin B1) 1.5 mg 100% 9 mg 600%
Riboflavin (Vitamin B2) 0.416 mg 25% 2.5 mg 147%
Niacin (Inositol Hexanicotinate) 21 mg 105% 126 mg 630%
Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxal-5’-phosphate) 16.7 mg 833% 100 mg 5000%
Folic Acid (5-methyltetrahydrofolate) 133 mcg 33% 800 mcg 200%
Vitamin B12 (Methylcobalamin) 108 mcg 1797% 647 mcg 10783%
Biotin 50 mcg 17% 300 mcg 100%
Pantothenic Acid 16.7 mg 167% 100 mg 1000%
Calcium (Calcium carbonate, Citrate-Malate, d-Ca Pantothenate) 50 mg 5% 300 mg 30%
Iodine (Potassium Iodide) 25 mcg 17% 150 mcg 100%
Magnesium (Aspartate, Oxide, Ascorbate, Chlorophyllin) 35 mg 9% 210 mg 53%
Zinc (Citrate) 1.8 mg 12% 11 mg 73%
Selenium (Se-Methylselenocysteine) 9.16 mcg 13% 55 mcg 79%
Copper (Citrate) 0.25 mg 13% 1.5 mg 75%
Manganese (Glycinate) 0.383 mg 19% 2.3 mg 115%
Chromium (Picolinate) 16.7 mcg 14% 100 mcg 83%
Molybdenum (Na Molybdate) 7.5 mcg 10% 45 mcg 60%
Boron (Citrate) 116 mcg † 700 mcg
Potassium (Chloride) 8.3 mg † 50 mg †
Silicon (Na Metasilicate) 4.16 mg † 25 mg †
Strontium (Citrate) 0.25 mg † 1.5 mg †
Vanadium (Picolinate) 3 mcg † 18 mcg †
R(+)-Lipoic Acid 25 mg † 150 mg †
Co-EnzymeQ10 (ubidecarenone) 5 mg † 30 mg †
Green Tea Extract (45% EgCG; 1% caffeine) 23.3 mg † 140 mg †
N-Acetylcysteine (NAC) 33.3 mg † 200 mg †
Chlorophyllin Complex 25 mg † 150 mg †
Trans-resveratrol 0.3 mg † 1.8 mg †
Pomegranate extract (40% Ellagic Acid) 16.6 mg † 100 mg †
Sulforaphane (from Broccoli Sprout Extract 1.18 mg † 7.1 mg †
Lutein 1.1 mg † 6.8 mg †
Lycopene 1.7 mg † 10 mg †
Cryptoxanthin 42 IU † 250 IU †
beta-tocopherol 0.3 mg † 2 mg †
gamma-tocopherol 10 mg † 60 mg †
delta-tocopherol 4 mg † 24 mg †
alpha-tocotrienol 0.5 mg † 3 mg †
beta-tocotrienol 50 mcg † 300 mcg †
gamma-tocotrienol 1 mg † 6 mg †
delta-tocotrienol 0.216 mg † 1.3 mg †
Choline (Bitartrate) 16.7 mg † 100 mg †
Inositol (from Inositol, Inositol Hexanicotinate) 16.7 mg † 100 mg †
Mixed Citrus Bioflavonoids (25%) 4.7 mg † 25 mg †
Quercetin Dihydrate (85% Quercetin) 10.83 mg † 65 mg †
Other ingredients: <1% corn starch, gelatin, ~0.4% soy and vegetable oil, ~0.3% sucrose, silicon dioxide, calcium phosphate, maltodextrine, Acacia gum, ascorbyl palmitate, sorbitan monostearate < 0.003% coconut oil, dl-alpha tocopherol. Capsule; hypromellose, water. Contains Soy.

So, if you want green tea extract, pomegranate extract, etc., make sure you're buying the second formula, not the Canadian one. Is that the upshot?

Edit: Forgot to paste link.

Edited by Watson, 28 June 2011 - 07:09 AM.

[jep]

I've just received an email from Traj Nibber at AOR explaining the changes I noted in my first post above. His comments follow the -

Complete removal of...



Chlorophyllin complex (150mg) – Still in the formula; now called sodium copper chlorophyllin

Pomegranate extract (100mg) – Replaced by Grape seed extract; pomegranate not monographed – Grape seed extract is; arguably, GSE is a better source of polyphenols than pomegranate

Sulforaphane (from broccoli sprout extract) (7.1mg) – Still in as broccoli powder; NHPD requirement

alpha carotene (1.6mg) – Still in there; can’t declare it on the label because doesn’t recognize it as a source

zeaxanthin (314mcg) – See alpha-carotene

beta-tocopherol (2mg) – Still in there; cannot claim it on the label; NHPD only recognizes alpha-tocopherol

beta-tocotrienol (0.3mg) – See beta-tocopherol

strontium citrate (1.5mg) – Removed in order to assure NPN

Co-Enzyme Q10 (30mg) – Still in there

Green tea extract (140mg) – Still in there


Reduction in...



Beta-carotene (from 6mg to 1.8mg) – Dose adjusted to make RAE work out

Cryptoxanthin (from 300mcg to 250mcg) – Dose adjusted to reflect reality; 250 mikes what was really in there all along

Lycopene (from 10mg to 5mg) – Maximum allowed by NHPD (see NHPD database)

Mixed Citrus Bioflavonoids (from 100mg to 25mg) – It’s always been 25 mg; label has been wrong (showed raw material amount instead of elemental amount)

Quercetin dihydrate (from 76mg to 65mg) – 
gamma-tocopherol (from 60mg to 13.8mg) – But see tocotrienols

gamma-tocotrienol (6mg to 3mg) – See cryptoxanthin


Increase in...



Retinol palmitate (from 150mcg to 200mcg) – See beta-carotene

Alpha-tocopherol (from 15mg to 99.6mg) - See cryptoxanthin

Delta-tocopherol (from 24mg to 58.2mg) - See cryptoxanthin

alpha-tocotrienol (3mg to 10mg) - See cryptoxanthin

delta-tocotrienol (1.3mg to 5.5mg) - See cryptoxanthin





Changed...



R(+)-lipoic acid (150mg) to Alpha-Lipoic Acid (150mg) – NHPD doesn’t recognize stereoisomers of ALA: only ALA; we are still using R-LA; we just can’t say so





Addition of...



Grape seed extract (85% Oligomeric proanthocyanidins) (100mg) – See above

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm even more alarmed by this response! AOR have been using labels that have been incorrect. Not only that, but they are now not going to be listing some of the ingredients that are in Ortho Core! So much for their guarantee "AOR guarantees that no ingredients not listed on the label have been added to the product."

All credibility is gone as far as I'm concerned. I'm going to be looking elsewhere for ALL my supplements now.

[nameless]

Umm... yeah. I find that response rather alarming too. Frankly I'm surprised AOR admitted that to you.

So not only are some ingredients in the product not listed currently, but they previously made mistakes on the old label?

I can't say that exactly makes me feel comfortable buying any future products from them.

[jep]

Not only admitted, but admitted by the owner/founder! Rather foolish IMO.

I was considering taking Multi Basics, along with continuing their MaxDHA and increasing my ALA supplementarion using there's. I'm going to be looking for other products/brands now. The thing is, how do we know what's in a supplement? We trust these companies, but no matter how reputable they seem, we just don't know what we're really taking.

[jep]

Just wanted to update everyone.

After many email exchanges with Traj, we have realised that there are mistakes on their website which were not checked (in my first email to them I asked if it was an error, and assumed someone would check) and this, combined with his answers above, resulted in the confusion.

Yes, Ortho Core has been reformulated, however the changes are minimal and what's in there is what's on the label.

Traj's explanations have reassured me and I'm going to stick with Ortho Core and the other AOR supplements I take. Their website is going to be updated very shortly.

Josh.

Edited by jep, 30 June 2011 - 07:17 PM.

[9H}@}C\%kmFHOB#?X]

jep, that's good news, but...

I don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but it's simply not dead. If you look at Ortho Core on www.aor.ca and on www.aorhealth.com, the ingredients lists are still different. Which one should I buy? Why are there two different formulations in the first place? If one is "optimal," then what does that make the other? Sub-optimal? Are these both "Ortho Core"? Are there two Ortho Cores?

Sorry for not letting this rest. I just want to know which I should buy. Anyone?

[neoP]

My new bottle of Ortho-Core (EXP 10/2013) appears to be reformulated compared to the last bottle that I have (EXP 01/2013) such as the addition of grape seed extract, but the new formulation on my bottle is different from both the Canadian and US site.

[9H}@}C\%kmFHOB#?X]

Just wanted to update everyone.

After many email exchanges with Traj, we have realised that there are mistakes on their website which were not checked (in my first email to them I asked if it was an error, and assumed someone would check) and this, combined with his answers above, resulted in the confusion.

Yes, Ortho Core has been reformulated, however the changes are minimal and what's in there is what's on the label.

Traj's explanations have reassured me and I'm going to stick with Ortho Core and the other AOR supplements I take. Their website is going to be updated very shortly.

Josh.

Josh, maybe you could share with us your reasons for having your confidence in AOR and Ortho-Core restored? I think it's probably the best multi out there IF the reasonable doubts that have been raised in this thread can be satisfactorily answered, so I'd like to see that happen.

[Benedictus]

Wow, this looks so messy I think AOR has just lost all my respect as a reliable supplier/producer/manufacturer.

[apod]

AOR is reformulating a bunch of their supplements including Ortho Mind.

http://www.aor.ca/ht...ductupdates.php

[exigentsky]

I looked it up recently and was very confused since I vaguely remembered a positive impression. This explains it and I just lost my interest in the product. They decided to cut the price instead of offering an awesome product.