48 replies to this topic

[k10]

Memantine is legal to import for personal use. It's not a controlled drug.

[Iceebear19727]

So my Mg Taurate came in the mail today... I was under the impression that each pill was 400mg but now I see that the serving size is 4 pills totaling 400mg...
Does anyone have any idea what would be a good dosage to start at for NMDA antagonist purposes? I was just going to start with one in the morning and one at night...
Also, what side effects should I be on the lookout for that would point to my dosage being too high? Besides lower intestinal symptoms..

[August59]

Honestly, I doubt that Magnesium will have sufficient NMDA antagonist effect to reduce tolerance to Adderall. If you wanna do that, just get some over the counter Robitussin (DXM).

Just curious - How does dxm work to lower tolerance to adderall? I have also heard that memantadine (Namaenda) also works. Have you heard this working as well.

I need to ffind me a summary of how it all works somewhere? Thanks

[thedevinroy]

In a separate study, the bioavailability (evaluated by absorption, excretion, and retention rate of magnesium) of four commercially available Mg2+ compounds (magnesium-chloride, -citrate, -glycinate, and -gluconate) and two Mg2+ preparations we developed (magnesium-L-threonate, MgT, and magnesium-gluconate in milk) was compared in rats. We found that both MgT and magnesium-gluconate in milk have higher bioavailability (X.Z., F. Mao, Y. Shang, N.A., and G.L., unpublished data).

Other magnesium compounds did not elevate [Mg2+]CSF significantly when compared to control (Figure 1A).

(A) Elevation of magnesium concentration in the cerebrospinal fluid ([Mg2+]CSF) following treatment with different magnesium compounds. Total Mg2+ in CSF was measured before magnesium treatment (day 0), 12, and 24 days after magnesium treatment. Two-way ANOVA analysis revealed significant effect of treatment (F3,69 = 4.76, p = 0.0045, n = 6–8). Data were calculated and presented as a percentage of baseline level.

Rats treated with MgT showed significant enhancement of short-term memory (10 min retention interval, one-way ANOVA analysis, p < 0.05) using a modified NORT (see Figure S4 and Supplemental Experimental Procedures). Rats treated with magnesium-chloride or -citrate displayed enhanced short-term memory as well, but this enhancement was not statistically significant (Figure 1B).

(B) Rat performance during a short-term memory test (10 min retention interval) evaluated by novel object recognition test.

Surprisingly, although magnesium-gluconate in milk has a comparable bioavailability to MgT (X.Z., F. Mao, Y. Shang, N.A., and G.L., unpublished data), it failed to enhance memory (Figure 1B). For the long-term memory test (12 hr retention interval), only MgT-treated rats exhibited enhanced performance (p < 0.05, Figure 1C).

[C] Long-term memory test (12 hr) using novel object recognition test. One-way ANOVA analysis revealed significant effect of treatment on shortterm memory (F4,34 = 2.89, p = 0.037, n = 7–9) and long-term memory (F4,31 = 4.50, p = 0.005, n = 5–10). Post hoc test revealed significant effect of magnesium-L-threonate (MgT) on short term and long-term memory.

[Iceebear19727]

Cool, so MgT works the best in the memory department... too bad I can't afford it at the moment! Thanks for posting that! I'll keep it in mind for later...

[Hip]

You want to use transdermal magnesium as an NMDA inhibitor.

Trying transdermal magnesium is easy to do: make up a saturated solution of Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) in warm water, and apply to the skin of the whole body, and let it dry in for a few minutes before putting your clothes back on. You will absorb a good dose of magnesium like this — much more than is possible in the oral route (diarrhea results if you take much more than ~500 mg of magnesium orally).

These high doses of oral magnesium have a noticeable calming effect after a few hours of application.

Edited by Hip, 27 October 2011 - 08:58 PM.

[Hip]

If you want to know how much elemental magnesium is in various magnesium compounds, see this list:

Magnesium Molecular Mass in Various Magnesium Compounds:

MgO magnesium oxide (insoluble in water)
Mg = 60.30% of mass

Mg(OH)₂ magnesium hydroxide (practically insoluble) "Milk of Magnesia"
Mg = 41.68% of mass

MgCO₃ magnesium carbonate (insoluble in water)
Mg = 28.83% of mass

MgCl₂ magnesium chloride
Mg = 25.53% of mass

MgSO₄ magnesium sulphate
Mg = 20.19% of mass

Mg(HCO₃)₂ magnesium bicarbonate (exists only in aqueous solution)
Mg = 16.61% of mass

C₄H₄MgO₅ magnesium malate
Mg = 15.54% of mass

Mg(C2H4O2N)2 magnesium glycinate
Mg = 14.10% of mass

C₆H₆O₇Mg magnesium citrate
Mg = 11.34% of mass

C₈H₁₂MgN₂O₈ magnesium aspartate
Mg = 8.42% of mass

MgC₁₂H₂₂O₁₄ magnesium gluconate
Mg = 5.86% of mass

Edited by Hip, 27 October 2011 - 09:01 PM.

[JChief]

Cool, so MgT works the best in the memory department... too bad I can't afford it at the moment! Thanks for posting that! I'll keep it in mind for later...

MgT sure does seem promising. I haven't yet had a chance to give it a try. But if I were going to take magnesium.. I'd want to take one with the nootropic potential . It's relatively safe to take as well (GRAS status).

[fighter]

Can you take both DXM + Mg? I worry about DXM's hypertensive effects, it does that right?

[medievil]

Magnesium for tolerance is like taking glutamine and expecting steroid results, way to weak.

[fighter]

Magnesium for tolerance is like taking glutamine and expecting steroid results, way to weak.

Hi medievil, can you suggest an effective NMDA antagonist instead?

[medievil]

Memantine or DXM have alot of succesfull anecdotes behind them.

[fighter]

Memantine or DXM have alot of succesfull anecdotes behind them.

Thank you sir. How much in mg based on your research has shown effective NMDA antagonism by DXM administration? How would you suggest this to be taken, dosage x per day or hour, etc?

[protoject]

Memantine or DXM have alot of succesfull anecdotes behind them.

Thank you sir. How much in mg based on your research has shown effective NMDA antagonism by DXM administration? How would you suggest this to be taken, dosage x per day or hour, etc?

I know you didn't ask me specifically but...
Memantine is the better option IMO it lasts far longer and is a lot more effective, also I have not taken amphetamines for years but i did do memantine and amphetamines together at some point for a while and it really enhanced the effects, also just a note it may decrease tolerance to opioids as well [just in case you ever find yourself on pain medication for any reason] IME anyway, memantine start at 5 mg for a few weeks then 10 later on if you feel you need to go that high. Heck might even be smart to start at 2.5 mg depending on your sensitivity, remember though I think the half life is like 50 hrs, google it.

My only issue with the memantine is that it does have more actions than just being a straight up NMDA antagonist, i think it agonizes some serotonin receptor or something [google it I'm too lazy]

Edited by protoject, 07 October 2012 - 12:58 PM.

[fighter]

Memantine or DXM have alot of succesfull anecdotes behind them.

Thank you sir. How much in mg based on your research has shown effective NMDA antagonism by DXM administration? How would you suggest this to be taken, dosage x per day or hour, etc?

I know you didn't ask me specifically but...
Memantine is the better option IMO it lasts far longer and is a lot more effective, also I have not taken amphetamines for years but i did do memantine and amphetamines together at some point for a while and it really enhanced the effects, also just a note it may decrease tolerance to opioids as well [just in case you ever find yourself on pain medication for any reason] IME anyway, memantine start at 5 mg for a few weeks then 10 later on if you feel you need to go that high. Heck might even be smart to start at 2.5 mg depending on your sensitivity, remember though I think the half life is like 50 hrs, google it.

My only issue with the memantine is that it does have more actions than just being a straight up NMDA antagonist, i think it agonizes some serotonin receptor or something [google it I'm too lazy]

Hi, Mementine looks pretty expensive, not sure about Kaiser's price but I don't think they'd Rx me for my FMS, CFIDS/ME. Do you know if by blocking NMDA receptors it can prevent / reverse muscle wasting because that's what I am having as well. Thank you so much

[tolerant]

Aren't drugs like MXE and Ketamine meant to decrease glutamate and excitability, not the other way around?

[gnappi]

The best way to antagonize NMDA is  magnesium pyruvate, since this acid also antagonizes NMDA: http://www.plosone.o...al.pone.0095777

[Major Legend]

So whats the answer? MgT? or is Magnesium just pointless because its too weak? Epsom Salts?

 

My issue with memantine is that it has a titration curve to it, you have to be prepared to take it for a long durations for the cognitive retard effects to wear off, and for the pro cognitive effects to appear, and I mean a long process, you start at 5mg and work your way up to 30-40mg, upping the dose every two weeks (from what I remember reading anyways - there was a longecity member who told me it was the best thing he ever did, but that it wansn't for the faint hearted). It isn't exactly a cheap medication to buy online either.

 

Not sure if memantine works instantly for tolerance or not, does NDMA antagonist only prevent tolerance, or can it reverse it? I have never understood the sensitization/tolerance mechanism very well.

 

Cough syrup is illegal where I am at, because of people abusing it unfortunately.

[mikey]

 

 

Threonate? There's a thread on it around here somewhere. It's hard to find though. Between malate and glycinate I doubt there's enough difference to worry.

Oh really? Can you tell me why?

 

Why threonate? It's supposed to get into the brain better. It's probably getting in via active transport. Or is the question directed at malate glycinate? I'm just thinking about bioavailability there.

 

 

The notion that it gets into the brain better is questionable.
 

In fact, the manufacturer says that it's the only form of magnesium tat gets into the brain. That alone, should make one suspicious of statements about their product's superiority.

 

All forms of magnesium are transported into all tissues in the body. Some are utilized more efficiently.

 

Two naturally-oriented doctors that I know found as they watched patients that used it that it seemed to do something for cognition for a short time, then nothing. 

 

Both quit prescribing it.

 

I found it doing nothing else notable that Doctor's Best Chelated Magnesium doesn't do.