300 replies to this topic

[noos]

Actually the opposite. My skin is so much more elastic and my wrinkles have faded. Turns out some of the ingredients are also in some special skin rejuvenation formula recently launched... Guess what's good for brain and nervous tissue is good for epithelial tissue as well!

Both derive from the ectoderm

Which are the ingredients you think are good?

[MrHappy]

This was the product mentioned:

http://www.longecity...se-information/

This is my regime: http://www.longecity...post__p__484112

So lecithin is from soy, although isoflavone is different.
Lycopene I get from a preference for tomatoes.

Most of the others are there. Alpha-gpc also raises levels of human growth hormone. HGH also has beneficial effects for skin.

[ViolettVol]

This was the product mentioned:

http://www.longecity...se-information/

This is my regime: http://www.longecity...post__p__484112

So lecithin is from soy, although isoflavone is different.
Lycopene I get from a preference for tomatoes.

Most of the others are there. Alpha-gpc also raises levels of human growth hormone. HGH also has beneficial effects for skin.

Does Alpha-gpc always increase anxiety, as some people experienced? I'd love to take it with uridine for its HGH promoting capabilities, but I'm afraid of anxiety. Perhaps i will not be that sensitive to it and be able to take it? My skin would be soo happy!

Here's an update on my zolpidem tapering off progress: Due to delivery issues I had some withdrawal symptoms from the zolpidem and now am on the 10 mg a day plateau, cant seem to be able to go lower or the anxiety starts up again:/ Uridine is taking its own sweet time getting to me via mail so that regimen's not started yet.

However, I have been considering a switch in my antidepressants - Zoloft which i;ve been taking for the past few years works good for my OCD (although not ideally, many milder symptoms still persist), but my depression is still there, as is the SSRI - induced apathy and lack of motivation. AND as I;ve seen on myself, zoloft does nothing for my anxiety attacks. So I've been thinking about discontinuing Zoloft and trying Stablon (tianeptine) It seems to promise to do what I need - lift mood, concentration, lower anxiety, increase motivation AND repair the damage stress has caused in my brain.

The only uncertain thing is OCD - I read a study about it causing a weird Obsessive-like episode in one patient but it was in no way similar to my type of ocd and she was treated with other stuff as well, so... Other patients have experienced a lowering of their OCD symptoms with stablon. Actually the initial period of zoloft treatment also causes increased OCD symptoms anyway, they go away after a week or so and the longer one takes it the more stupor one feels.
So I've wanted to ask if anyone knows more about stablon and ocd and whether its uplifting action on mood and anti-anxiety effects might get rid of ocd which in me appeared after depression and anxiety. Anyone currently using it can comment on the effects?

Edited by ViolettVol, 05 December 2011 - 01:33 PM.

[noos]

I think cholinergics can worsen OCD and depression but you may experiment with doses.

[medievil]

May i suggest the use of memantine or nitric oxide inhibitors to block the development of tolerance against certain substances like benzodiazepines, stimulants or other meds when one cant find a proper alternative.

[ViolettVol]

May i suggest the use of memantine or nitric oxide inhibitors to block the development of tolerance against certain substances like benzodiazepines, stimulants or other meds when one cant find a proper alternative.

would it also work against tolerance for zolpidem? maybe then it would work in lower doses and it would be easier to wean off it?

[MrHappy]

Choline/cholinergics are antidopaminergic.

Uridine acts as an effective dopamine modulator, so should be able to mediate the dopamine reduction from choline rather well. Just make sure you've been on uridine for about 2 weeks before adding choline and start slowly when you do. Start at eg. 100/250mg and gradually work up to 500mg of choline, if you are doing well.

Can't comment on Stablon. Someone else here may be able to.

Are you trying EFT as well?

[medievil]

May i suggest the use of memantine or nitric oxide inhibitors to block the development of tolerance against certain substances like benzodiazepines, stimulants or other meds when one cant find a proper alternative.

would it also work against tolerance for zolpidem? maybe then it would work in lower doses and it would be easier to wean off it?

Yes memantine should be effective against zolpidems tolerance. Give it a trial, if you cant afford mem DXM is a good alternative, but dont combine it with SSRI's or other serogogenics.

[ViolettVol]

but what about stablon? its not cholinergic is it? Pardon my ignorance. I just wantto feel like myself again - enthusiastic, not so damn afraid and dpressed all the time and without side effects, free from anxiety and ocd... Free from my own private hell :(

[MrHappy]

I've done some reading on Stablon. It works by creating the exact opposite effect of SSRIs - it promotes seratonin reuptake, thereby causing your body to uprate production of seratonin to compensate. This could be good, but you'd need a wash-out of probably up to a month off Zoloft, first... and you'd have to taper off Zoloft, as you know.

http://www.tianeptine.com/

Edited by MrHappy, 05 December 2011 - 08:08 PM.

[ViolettVol]

I've done some reading on Stablon. It works by creating the exact opposite effect of SSRIs - it promotes seratonin reuptake, thereby causing your body to uprate production of seratonin to compensate. This could be good, but you'd need a wash-out of probably up to a month off Zoloft, first... and you'd have to taper off Zoloft, as you know.

http://www.tianeptine.com/

Yeah, but before yet another taper I first have to get off the zolp in full and give my body and brain some rest/regeneration with uridine and the rest of your recommended regimen.

Question - I read somewhere in the forum that benzodiazepines increase the production of Human Growth Hormone? Anyone know anything about it? I think it was sais they do that in the initial period of taking them??

Edited by ViolettVol, 06 December 2011 - 04:35 AM.

[MrHappy]

From my research, people are using HGH to mediate some of the benzo side effects.

[ViolettVol]

From my research, people are using HGH to mediate some of the benzo side effects.

So in actuality, they might actually decrease HGH? Drat, and here I thought there was one good side to my taking benzos:/

Speaking of flushing out zoloft for a month - howu would I do that without going totally OCD crazy? Would being on the uridine etc regimen be enough or would I have to take some transition meds?

[ViolettVol]

From my research, people are using HGH to mediate some of the benzo side effects.

So in actuality, they might actually decrease HGH? Drat, and here I thought there was one good side to my taking benzos:/

Speaking of flushing out zoloft for a month - howu would I do that without going totally OCD crazy? Would being on the uridine etc regimen be enough or would I have to take some transition meds?

[ViolettVol]

From my research, people are using HGH to mediate some of the benzo side effects.

So in actuality, they might actually decrease HGH? Drat, and here I thought there was one good side to my taking benzos:/

Speaking of flushing out zoloft for a month - howu would I do that without going totally OCD crazy? Would being on the uridine etc regimen be enough or would I have to take some transition meds?

[ViolettVol]

I have one more question - do antidepressants such as SSRis and meds such as benzos and zolpidem have an aging affect on one's appearance? Has this been studied?

[MrHappy]

I think you still may have a bit of a bumpy road, no matter what you do, so I'd suggest doing it gently and slowly.

Perhaps starting on the uridine+cofactors for about 3-4 weeks before gradually tapering off zoloft, taking as long as you need - could even be 3-12 months, may be the path of least resistance.

It'd probably be easier to do that by switching to liquid zoloft and using a syringe to measure out the doses. This will allow you much greater control of the doses. From memory 1mL of liquid zoloft is equivalent to 4mg of tablet. ie. 12.5mL liquid = 50mg tablet. You could decrease the dose slowly (by up to .01mL, if needed) and if you find you are moving too quickly and are having any of the usual withdrawal symptoms, you can always go up a little and hover there until you feel ready to slide down the dosage slope a little further. I wouldn't set yourself any goals or expectations on how long it should take - just feel your way along and do it at your own pace. If you have to go back up a little or hover for a while at a particular dose, so what? No rush.

I'd suggest combining this with EFT or another therapy, too.

[bacopa]

Morgan, can you elaborate - I've seen a lot of studies discussing using other SSRIs to get off Zoloft, as well as many, many personal accounts, including 2 involving my wife and my ex-gf that show OCD and anxiety when withdrawing from Zoloft. In the OP's case, because she has already withdrawn previously, if she has gone back on at the same dose, it's likely to be less effective, meaning she either needs a higher dose, or to repair the tolerance and side effects - which 500mg of uridine per day has been shown to do successfully after 10 days.

What is the benefit of just treating the symptoms, when you can treat the cause?

I'm all for therapy, I may become a therapist one day myself. Being on medication does not prevent you from healing, and in some cases it helps someone get through therapy more productively.

You do realize we just don't have the time to wait 5 years to hopefully resolve everything that ails us. We need to get to living, and enjoying life.

Medications can be protective against the damage that chronic depression and anxiety can inflict.

You think taking uridine and the other supplements are treating the cause??? Are you serious? Dude, you've got to be young and inexperienced, with very little knowledge of the biopsychosocial dynamic that contributes to mental illness.

Are you really Mr. Happy??? I bet there is sadness within you that lingers that you are not aware of. Spend 6 months to a year in therapy with someone that knows what they are doing and take it seriously. You will find out there is more going on inside you than you ever imagined.

Morgan stop worshiping your stupid meds, you have not read all the harms of the people that have been on them long term...Wellbutrin messes with so many as well, causes anxiety, and amphetmaine like feelings. And it's such an artifical boost, some feel horrible on that shit.

SSRI's can lead to aggression in more than you may realize.

you are SO one sided that you end up worshipping these things. they are filled with toxins, as pharma drugs tend to be, and things like even 500 mg of lithium make some people so "dull" what's the point?

I don't even buy into lithium causing neruogenesis in the thinking areas of the brain, hippocampus, nad if it does then most sure don't feel much of a cognition boost. You were more on with recommending Lithium orotate.

I have heard so much horror storeis from Adderal ampehetamine type drugs, yes SSRI's like Zoloft, mood stabilizers are eating shit in my opinon...there are safer ways to boost energy, brain power, and even these supplements it varries so much between people. These studies sound fantastic on paper, helps NGF, helps protect against Lipofuscin, but is it doing what it claims? Again be wary of most studies done on pharma drugs, they are usually tied in with the pharmacueticals themselves, or funded by LIlly, and all the companies that I've learned to loathe.

[Ark]

I'm laughing about Lithium dull post, come on....... Lithium causes the brain to grow, I've used Lithium low dosages for years and I'm far from dull. Just curious can you post any studies backing any of your wild claims as too SSRI's being shit and Lithium being nothing more then a pharma myth?



Antidepressant Drugs

Scientific research by the National Institute of Mental Health has proven that antidepressants work by allowing our brains to grow new brain cells (neurons). In a 2003 study, scientists discovered that when they blocked the formation of new neurons in the hippocampus brain region, behavioral effects of the antidepressant Prozac [Fluoxetine] were diminished.
Research has already understood that depression, stress, and anxiety disorders can cause death of neurons in the brain. More studies have demonstrated that most other antidepressants on the market can and will trigger the growth of new neurons. Even more interesting is the fact that besides humans, adult animals grow new neurons when given antidepressant drugs.
Though there are many other interactions in the brain with antidepressants, their primary beneficial effect from them is derived from their ability to produce neurogenesis. Now if scientists can only figure out a way to induce the amount of neurogenesis that antidepressant medication does without creating a new drug!

Molecular Psychiatry (2004) 9, 371–385. doi:10.1038/sj.mp.4001463 Published online 31 December 2003

Molecular Psychiatry (2004) 9, 371–385. doi:10.1038/sj.mp.4001463 Published online 31 December 2003
Short-term lithium treatment promotes neuronal survival and proliferation in rat striatum infused with quinolinic acid, an excitotoxic model of Huntington's disease

V V Senatorov^1,2, M Ren¹, H Kanai¹, H Wei¹ and D-M Chuang<sup>1

1</sup>Molecular Neurobiology Section, National Institute of Mental Health, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD, USA
Correspondence: D-M Chuang, Ph.D., Molecular Neurobiology Section, National Institute of Mental Health, National Institutes of Health, Building 10, Room 4C206, 10 Center Drive, MSC 1363, Bethesda, MD 20892-1363, USA. E-mail: chuang@mail.nih.gov
²Current address: National Eye Institute, NIH, Bethesda, MD, USA
Received 1 August 2003; Revised 21 September 2003; Accepted 6 October 2003; Published online 31 December 2003.

[nupi]

Even if a drug promotes neurogenesis, improving cognition is a long way from that. So it would be rather unlikely you would feel smarter, I agree.

Therapy is nice in theory, in real life, most of us just do not have the time for it (not to mention that it is a fairly costly way of treating people). I know I cannot commit to weekly sessions for a year or more.

[JChief]

I'm laughing about Lithium dull post, come on....... Lithium causes the brain to grow, I've used Lithium low dosages for years and I'm far from dull. Just curious can you post any studies backing any of your wild claims as too SSRI's being shit and Lithium being nothing more then a pharma myth?



Antidepressant Drugs

Scientific research by the National Institute of Mental Health has proven that antidepressants work by allowing our brains to grow new brain cells (neurons). In a 2003 study, scientists discovered that when they blocked the formation of new neurons in the hippocampus brain region, behavioral effects of the antidepressant Prozac [Fluoxetine] were diminished.
Research has already understood that depression, stress, and anxiety disorders can cause death of neurons in the brain. More studies have demonstrated that most other antidepressants on the market can and will trigger the growth of new neurons. Even more interesting is the fact that besides humans, adult animals grow new neurons when given antidepressant drugs.
Though there are many other interactions in the brain with antidepressants, their primary beneficial effect from them is derived from their ability to produce neurogenesis. Now if scientists can only figure out a way to induce the amount of neurogenesis that antidepressant medication does without creating a new drug!

Molecular Psychiatry (2004) 9, 371–385. doi:10.1038/sj.mp.4001463 Published online 31 December 2003

Molecular Psychiatry (2004) 9, 371–385. doi:10.1038/sj.mp.4001463 Published online 31 December 2003
Short-term lithium treatment promotes neuronal survival and proliferation in rat striatum infused with quinolinic acid, an excitotoxic model of Huntington's disease

V V Senatorov^1,2, M Ren¹, H Kanai¹, H Wei¹ and D-M Chuang<sup>1

1</sup>Molecular Neurobiology Section, National Institute of Mental Health, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD, USA
Correspondence: D-M Chuang, Ph.D., Molecular Neurobiology Section, National Institute of Mental Health, National Institutes of Health, Building 10, Room 4C206, 10 Center Drive, MSC 1363, Bethesda, MD 20892-1363, USA. E-mail: chuang@mail.nih.gov
²Current address: National Eye Institute, NIH, Bethesda, MD, USA
Received 1 August 2003; Revised 21 September 2003; Accepted 6 October 2003; Published online 31 December 2003.

The active principle in these salts is the lithium ion Li⁺, which interacts with the normal function of sodium ions to produce numerous changes in the neurotransmitter activity of the brain. Therapeutically effective amounts of lithium are only slightly lower than toxic amounts.**Thus, the concentration of lithium ions in the blood must be carefully monitored during treatment. This means that self-treatment of a psychiatric disorder with lithium salts is potentially dangerous.

** http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18072162

[noos]

Even if a drug promotes neurogenesis, improving cognition is a long way from that. So it would be rather unlikely you would feel smarter, I agree.

Therapy is nice in theory, in real life, most of us just do not have the time for it (not to mention that it is a fairly costly way of treating people). I know I cannot commit to weekly sessions for a year or more.

I don´t see how 45 min/week for therapy is too much time. Money and efficacy is another story.

[Ark]

Have you looked into http://www.therapeut...le&channelID=30 before????

Apoaequorin at high dosages may work, if not perhaps they have a Injectable version coming out soon??

Edited by Ark, 10 December 2011 - 12:42 AM.

[Ark]

Have you tried Apoaequorin + Memantine OCD fixer so to speak.

[nupi]

Even if a drug promotes neurogenesis, improving cognition is a long way from that. So it would be rather unlikely you would feel smarter, I agree.

Therapy is nice in theory, in real life, most of us just do not have the time for it (not to mention that it is a fairly costly way of treating people). I know I cannot commit to weekly sessions for a year or more.

I don´t see how 45 min/week for therapy is too much time. Money and efficacy is another story.

It is likely going to be significantly more than that (unless you somehow convince your shrink to come to you instead of you going to him). Even so, 45 minutes during the work week is simply impossible in my job and I have yet to find non-emergency doctors that work week-ends....

[noos]

I don´t see how 45 min/week for therapy is too much time. Money and efficacy is another story.

It is likely going to be significantly more than that (unless you somehow convince your shrink to come to you instead of you going to him). Even so, 45 minutes during the work week is simply impossible in my job and I have yet to find non-emergency doctors that work week-ends....

It depends on where you live. It can take from less than 5 minutes to hours. If I lived far from a pych I would have an interview and then follow through chat.
I don´t think there is recovery without therapy.

[MrHappy]

Good thing you can do things like EFT at home in your own time.
The only thing you have to do first is identify what your triggers are and bad experiences have been.. to let them go.

[manic_racetam]

Good thing you can do things like EFT at home in your own time.
The only thing you have to do first is identify what your triggers are and bad experiences have been.. to let them go.

Some different modalities that seem to be equally effective are EFT, Psych-K, and EMDR. Psych-K is probably the most painless form but it seems harder to find a practitioner to help you with it; probably since it's a newer method. EFT is good stuff, but works better (for me at least) when there is someone else to go through it with you.

[Neurotik]

Whatever you do, include high-quality fish oil.

[MrHappy]

One of my friends is a therapist and also highly recommends NMDR. I haven't really looked at it enough to comment on how it works, but I've see the impressive results.