18 replies to this topic

[TheFountain]

Here are some strange anxiety related effects I have noticed while on a very high fat, low carb diet that I experimented with.

These accounts are, of course, anecdotal, but perhaps we can discuss the possible causes.

When my fat intake was above 80 or so grams a day and my carb intake very low I noticed increased anxiety and proneness to anxiety attack and social disorder. I have no idea why, admittedly, but when I lowered my fat intake and increased carbs it apparently almost disappeared completely.

Another is fear of heights/agoraphobia. This is weird because growing up in new york city I had a fear of heights when I was a child but it was never extremely paralyzing and I pretty much overcame it by going to the world trade center courtyard almost every day after school and staring straight up at the buildings till I wasn't afraid of them anymore.

I would walk up to the corner columns and lean backwards against them, staring straight up till I became 'friends' with the buildings, and felt almost as if they were 'protecting' me. Of course then came 9/11 a couple years later but that's not really an issue since I didn't feel weird around tall buildings afterwards for the longest time, and my experiences with the trade center helped me to successfully overcome my fear of extreme heights (at least consciously).

Some time over the past 2 years I began to notice an increased paralysis around tall objects, not even extremely tall objects really, just any vertical object taller than a hundred feet really, like cell phone towers, church steeples, etc.

It seems to have coincided with when I began to experiment with a paleo-ish high fat diet.

This psycho-physiological effect seems to wane when my fat intake is on the lower side, around 50-60 grams a day or lower, while increasing my carb intake.

Then there was this sudden fear of the open sky, which seems to have disappeared with lowering fat and increasing carbs.

I have absolutely no idea why this is. I wonder if it may have anything to do with the phenotype discussion I was having with skot on another thread.

Thoughts?

[hippocampus]

Some react well to ketosis, other don't, everybody's different.

[TheFountain]

Some react well to ketosis, other don't, everybody's different.

Have there been accounts of other's having these specific psycho-physiologic reactions to the release of ketone bodies?

[drus]

Hippocampus is more-or-less correct, but as a general rule, high fat diets are not a good idea. However, high sugar diets are just as bad (and in some cases worse). Temperance (and fiber lol) is the key to a good diet. Temperance in all things is key.

Edited by drus, 18 October 2011 - 06:57 PM.

[TheFountain]

Hippocampus is more-or-less correct, but as a general rule, high fat diets are not a good idea. However, high sugar diets are just as bad (and in some cases worse). Temperance (and fiber lol) is the key to a good diet. Temperance in all things is key.

Temperance? Can you go into greater detail please?

Anyway, I am on a low sugar diet, just to clarify.

[lourdaud]

Are you sure it's the high fat intake, and not the low carb intake, which is the cause?
My experience is that in order to not get anxious and depressed, I have to eat a minimum of carbs, usually around 100 or so suffice. More would maybe make me feel even better but for various reasons I stay there. If one does switch to a ketosis diet, you'll have to stricly regulate both carb and protein intake. The worst thing I've tried is eating high fat and low but not low enough carb and moderate protein, then I just end up in some in between glucose and ketosis limbo, where I get many of the symptoms you describe..

[drus]

Hippocampus is more-or-less correct, but as a general rule, high fat diets are not a good idea. However, high sugar diets are just as bad (and in some cases worse). Temperance (and fiber lol) is the key to a good diet. Temperance in all things is key.

Temperance? Can you go into greater detail please?

Anyway, I am on a low sugar diet, just to clarify.

I simply mean to use moderation.

[Application]

Carbs have a significant effect on serotonin levels. A low card diet could plausibly lead to anxious feelings and a general sense of unease/lack of safety.

Edited by Application, 18 October 2011 - 09:34 PM.

[TheFountain]

Guys, I am not totally sure if it was the low carb or the high fat aspect of it, but the serotonin thing makes sense though I have pretty much been taking SSRI supplements for a while. I was on saint johns wort for a couple of years and about a month and a half ago decided to try 5HTP for a while, but the switch has nothing to do with it since changing the forementioned diet has pretty much eliminated the symptoms.

There have been points where my carb intake was up to around 100+ grams a day and I still experienced the same sensations, because I was on a high fat diet. Once lowering the fat and increasing the carbs, symptoms waned away. The question of why persists.

Edited by TheFountain, 18 October 2011 - 10:10 PM.

[TheFountain]

Oh look, more lovely negatives by Ben, or whatever silly fool can't seem to grow up.

[TheFountain]

Hey sciolaro, care to explain your negative votes? Did I claim to know the absolutes and nuances of a specific subject without evidence? Did I present claims which I was trying to pass off as fact for anybody but myself and my own experience? Did I, in the face of asking questions and reporting my experiences at any point make it seem like I were in possession of an absolute truth which should be true for everyone, everywhere? Yea, I thought so.


Tool..

[niner]

Have there been accounts of other's having these specific psycho-physiologic reactions to the release of ketone bodies?

Yes. I did a pubmed search on ketosis and anxiety and found this paper. There's some discussion of possible mechanisms. Serotonin's probably involved, as Application suggests.

[TheFountain]

Have there been accounts of other's having these specific psycho-physiologic reactions to the release of ketone bodies?

Yes. I did a pubmed search on ketosis and anxiety and found this paper. There's some discussion of possible mechanisms. Serotonin's probably involved, as Application suggests.

Thanks, I would up-vote this post but i've reached my quota for the day.

Anyway, I am not sure if I was in ketosis during some or most of these experiences as my carb intake was likely high enough to keep me out of hyper fat burn phase. I would estimate that while there were indeed days where my carb intake was 20 grams or so, there were other's where it was 70-100 grams. Can one stay in ketosis while shifting carb intake levels rapidly enough?

Edited by TheFountain, 20 October 2011 - 01:26 PM.

[TheFountain]

Strange also that one should exclaim Serotinin is the common denominator since some low carb foods are also a source of Serotonin precursors, such as L-tryptophan. I think the aminio acid composition of some protein powders, for example includes L-tryptophan. I've seen some whey protein with as much as 800 mgs of LT per serving.

[yoyo]

Blood glucose level has a strong impact on brain function. The studies i remember reader were along the lines of 'low blood sugar reduces ability to use the PFC to exert self-control' but i would imagine there would be a similar effect on the pfc's inhibition of an overactive brainstem.

[TheFountain]

Blood glucose level has a strong impact on brain function. The studies i remember reader were along the lines of 'low blood sugar reduces ability to use the PFC to exert self-control' but i would imagine there would be a similar effect on the pfc's inhibition of an overactive brainstem.

Can you yank up any of these studies?

[ElSenor]

Could it be because of reduced magnesium and potassium intake? HFLC diets are usually deficient in these two minerals.

[TheFountain]

Could it be because of reduced magnesium and potassium intake? HFLC diets are usually deficient in these two minerals.

Negative, through out all of this I was very conscious of potassium intake. I would consume about a can of tomato paste a day as well as One whole tomato and a sweet potato. These would generally be my primary source of carbs too.

[The Immortalist]

It's odd that you reacted that way to a ketogenic diet while I had the complete opposite psychological symptoms. On a keto diet I felt very calm and peaceful. I also felt like I needed less sleep and could function on less. I guess everyone just reacts differently to different shit.

Edited by The Immortalist, 25 October 2011 - 03:00 AM.