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Carbs (aka glucose) impairs arterial and brain function -- enjoy your Turkey Day carb feast!

carbs glucose heart brain

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#91 Werner

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 05:03 PM

"Excess" as I describe it above refers to the absolute quantity of n-3 consumed. A low ratio of n-6 to n-3 is good, but it's better to obtain a low ratio by reducing n-6 than by increasing the oxidation-prone n-3.

Here is a good treatment of the relationship between membrane HUFA content and maximum lifespan. Note that I am absolutely not arguing for getting less n-3 than needed to obtain a low n-6/n-3 ratio. I'm arguing that it's better to reduce the need for n-3 by consuming less n-6. We still need a low ratio. Dietary consumption doesn't have a large effect on membrane composition, but still, I'd rather not push it in the wrong direction.

We are talking about different things.
You mean HUFAs in cell membranes or in the brain which
are prone to peroxidation.
I mean HUFA intake trough nutrition. The advantage of these
HUFAs is their metabolism that consumes the same enzymes
as arachidonic acid and prevents the building of damaging
cytokines. No matter what composition cell membranes have.

No, we are both talking about n-3 consumption, as well as (particularly, in fact) the consumption of both n-3 and n-6 HUFA. Dietary consumption affects the content of our membranes. Read the part that I put in bold above. I'm saying that people shouldn't drink large quantities of fish oil, or flax oil, (or linoleic acid), as though it had no downside risk.

Look at DHA, a n-3-HUFA which is not consumend during the initial
metabolic pathway (EPA disappears by being transformed to DPA an
then to DHA). It is necessary for cell membranes of the eye and the
brain to incorporate DHA. Without DHA they cannot work properly.
I cannot see any problem with consuming this extremely important
n-3-FA because it is needed not only in brain and eye but also to
combat these extremely negative effects of AA.
You can also mention a third advantage of n-3s: to reduce harmful
cytokines as IL-1 and TNF-alpha that are responsible for a lot of
diseases.
I only see the advantage of n-3s. Of course, you need also n-6. If
you balance both at say 4:1 everything is OK regardless the
quantity you choose - according to your body weight.

#92 hggh

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 06:39 PM

If there was something SERIOUSLY bad about this type of diet, I suspect we would know by now.



What if paleo diet is slow release toxin like oxygen?
http://www.reddit.co.../comments/mk3ut http://www.reddit.co...nous_air_fixed/

Or prostate cancer
http://healthcorrela...720027837689172

Um, think about how ridiculous this premise is. Paleo is mostly about getting rid of the Franken-food junk that our great grandparents didn't even eat. Omega-6 seed oils? Those oils combined catalytically with hydrogen gas under high pressure? High fructose corn syrup? Animals fed unnatural grains instead of the food they're supposed to eat? We don't even need to ask if this stuff is bad for us. We KNOW it's bad. The typical paleo diet consists of foods that people have been eating for tens of thousands, if not millions of years. It's really defined by what is NOT there, which is all the modern stuff, and some of the semi-modern stuff like gluten grains.

Didn't Mind eat a bunch of jerky back 2-3 yrs ago?

"beef jerky is the highest normal source of HCAs. The production of HCAs during cooking is very much a time X heat equation, with more heat and longer cooking equaling more HCA formation. [link source]"

From:
http://www.silverhyd...-to-avoid-them/ December 12, 2011
& http://www.reddit.co...ldone_red_meat/

Edited by hggh, 12 December 2011 - 06:54 PM.


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#93 Mind

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:59 PM

If there was something SERIOUSLY bad about this type of diet, I suspect we would know by now.



What if paleo diet is slow release toxin like oxygen?
http://www.reddit.co.../comments/mk3ut http://www.reddit.co...nous_air_fixed/

Or prostate cancer
http://healthcorrela...720027837689172

Um, think about how ridiculous this premise is. Paleo is mostly about getting rid of the Franken-food junk that our great grandparents didn't even eat. Omega-6 seed oils? Those oils combined catalytically with hydrogen gas under high pressure? High fructose corn syrup? Animals fed unnatural grains instead of the food they're supposed to eat? We don't even need to ask if this stuff is bad for us. We KNOW it's bad. The typical paleo diet consists of foods that people have been eating for tens of thousands, if not millions of years. It's really defined by what is NOT there, which is all the modern stuff, and some of the semi-modern stuff like gluten grains.

Didn't Mind eat a bunch of jerky back 2-3 yrs ago?

"beef jerky is the highest normal source of HCAs. The production of HCAs during cooking is very much a time X heat equation, with more heat and longer cooking equaling more HCA formation. [link source]"

From:
http://www.silverhyd...-to-avoid-them/ December 12, 2011
& http://www.reddit.co...ldone_red_meat/


The jerky I eat is all natural organic venison (gotten the paleo way). I dry it at 95 degrees F in order to avoid problems with heat. I also use natural salt and very little cure. My homemade jerky probably has less than half the sodium of commercial jerky. No hormones. No (or very little) HCAs. I freeze it in order to preserve it for longer periods of time.

#94 niner

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 04:27 AM

Didn't Mind eat a bunch of jerky back 2-3 yrs ago?


Cheers to Mind for his awesome paleo jerky, but I have to comment on the logic defect here. I'm in favor of paleo principles. I ate some cookies last week. Does that invalidate paleo? No, it just means I fell off the wagon, which happens from time to time.

#95 nidhogg

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 01:49 PM

I tried a ketogenic diet before when i was cutting, i ate approx 25g carbs a day from fruits only. Two weeks in i started getting hives/eczema rash spreading all over my body, i looked like a horror movie creature. Went to the docs and they were fascinated so after leaving skin samples i got some really strong hydrocortison cream.

Did it help? Not a bit, the stubborn bastard i am i stopped the diet when i just couldnt take it anymore. And hey what did you know? As soon as i started eating pasta and rice again the inflammation went down and the eczema and hives started regressing until after one week there were only scars left.

Keep in mind that i am a health enthusiast myself and i thought i had every nutritional base covered, from vitamins to minerals to healthy fats. During dieting i mostly ate nuts, fish, meat and eggs.

They diagnosed it idiopathic eczema, which is kind of funny because it never came back.


So much for bad carbs eh? :P
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#96 Werner

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 09:37 AM

BTW, all of our organs run better (and cleaner -- with less metabolic damage) on fat. Again, the one exception is our brain, which runs best on a 50/50 mix of fat and glucose. But, this is NOT a reason to eat carbs, because our body can make all the glucose the brain needs from the protein we ingest. We can live our entire lifetime without consume a gram of carbs. Yet we will quickly die if we do not consume fat and/or proteins.

Burning fat does not create most of this waste by-product, and leaves the brain free of intercellular gunk.


Why do plaques not form on the walls of the arteries while on a high fat low carb diet? Do plaques still form to a certain extent? Are you immune from heart disease on paleo or is the risk just reduced?

Why does burning fat not create as much waste products as does carbs or protein?

Here you can see food that cause plaque (fish does NOT cause plaque because of its
omega-3-content):
http://riskfactor.ca...ids/table4.html
Food sources of arachidonic acid (PFA 20:4), listed in descending order by percentages of their contribution to intake, based on data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey 2005-2006
Rank Food item Contribution to intake (%) Cumulative contribution (%) 1 Chicken and chicken mixed dishes 26.9 26.9 2 Eggs and egg mixed dishes 17.8 44.7 3 Beef and beef mixed dishes 7.3 52.0 4 Sausage, franks, bacon, and ribs 6.7 58.7 5 Other fish and fish mixed dishes 5.8 64.5 6 Burgers 4.6 69.1 7 Cold cuts 3.3 72.4 8 Pork and pork mixed dishes 3.1 75.5 9 Mexican mixed dishes 3.1 78.7 10 Pizza 2.8 81.5 11 Turkey and turkey mixed dishes 2.7 84.2 12 Pasta and pasta dishes 2.3 86.5 13 Grain-based desserts 2.0 88.5

Arachidonic acid is a risk factor for both CVD and cancer.

#97 TheFountain

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 11:44 AM

I tried a ketogenic diet before when i was cutting, i ate approx 25g carbs a day from fruits only. Two weeks in i started getting hives/eczema rash spreading all over my body, i looked like a horror movie creature. Went to the docs and they were fascinated so after leaving skin samples i got some really strong hydrocortison cream.

Did it help? Not a bit, the stubborn bastard i am i stopped the diet when i just couldnt take it anymore. And hey what did you know? As soon as i started eating pasta and rice again the inflammation went down and the eczema and hives started regressing until after one week there were only scars left.

Keep in mind that i am a health enthusiast myself and i thought i had every nutritional base covered, from vitamins to minerals to healthy fats. During dieting i mostly ate nuts, fish, meat and eggs.

They diagnosed it idiopathic eczema, which is kind of funny because it never came back.


So much for bad carbs eh? :P


Good luck trying to convince this crowd that paleo isn't for everybody. It's like trying to convince a little kid that not everybody who offers you candy is a 'good guy.

Of course I will get a negative vote for saying this, but such is the nature of deep seeded immaturity when dealing with a hive mentality.

Simply put, they have zero evidence that paleo is the be all, end all diet you should be on, and even less that it is good for long term consumption. But they are too arrogant to admit this. But I do give credit to the minority who admit that paleo has only been proven okay for short term biomarkers, in some people.......

Edited by TheFountain, 17 December 2011 - 11:47 AM.

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#98 niner

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 01:34 PM

I tried a ketogenic diet before when i was cutting, i ate approx 25g carbs a day from fruits only. Two weeks in i started getting hives/eczema rash spreading all over my body, i looked like a horror movie creature. Went to the docs and they were fascinated so after leaving skin samples i got some really strong hydrocortison cream.

Did it help? Not a bit, the stubborn bastard i am i stopped the diet when i just couldnt take it anymore. And hey what did you know? As soon as i started eating pasta and rice again the inflammation went down and the eczema and hives started regressing until after one week there were only scars left.

Keep in mind that i am a health enthusiast myself and i thought i had every nutritional base covered, from vitamins to minerals to healthy fats. During dieting i mostly ate nuts, fish, meat and eggs.

They diagnosed it idiopathic eczema, which is kind of funny because it never came back.


Interesting. Eczema is often caused by an allergen exposure, by something that messes with the skins barrier function, or by something that messes with the immune system. My guess is that when you went keto, you introduced some food, or raised the quantity of some food such that it caused a problem. When you went back to carbs, the offending food was displaced and that ended the problem. There's also the possibility that the ketosis itself caused some sort of immune dysregulation; ketosis is a fairly profound metabolic alteration. Finally, it's possible that there was something protective in one of the foods on the carb side; I think that's the least likely explanation. Sorry to hear that you were unwell, and glad to hear you got better.

I first developed eczema when I was eating a lot of carbs. Now I'm eating fewer carbs (not keto) and more fat, and my eczema is better, though not gone. The difference between TheFountain and myself is that I'm not engaging in a correlation/causation fallacy, nor am I trying to undermine a generally good dietary regimen based on an anecdote that came from yet a different dietary regimen. Paleo is not Keto.

#99 Mind

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 10:30 PM

Everyone loves to discuss the carbs vs. fat diet rationale. In reality, there is a different "best" diet for everyone. Some do better on more (healthy) carbs. Some seem to do very well on (healthy) high fat.

The one thing I am amazed by is the lingering effects of the anti-fat hysteria from the late 20th century in America, which IMO, is largely responsible for the obesity epidemic. Here is a title I could just not pass up:

High-fat diet leaves its mark on sperm (a rat study)

It is mentioned that the rat's diet was high fat and "bad", but typically these diets are just high calorie with the intention of making the rats obese. The takeaway here seems to be that "obesity leaves its (epigenetic) mark on sperm".




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