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What is the future of pleasure ?

kurzweil pleasure sexuality eating future

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#1 Pour_la_Science

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 01:23 PM


Hi!
I read some time ago the book from Kurzweil : The Singularity is Near.
Some points were troubling me during the reading of certain chapters:
According to Kurzweil,in the future we will keep more or less the same type of pleasures, but with only a lot of more possibilities. He gives the example of the sexual pleasure, you can be a man or a woman, according to your wishes, and about eating pleasure, you can eat as often as you want. Because all these pleasures will be separated from their primitive objectives, like reproduction, bringing nutrients etc...

I think the reasoning is wrong, from a biologist point of view.
The pleasure doesn't exist because it' "makes you feel good" (it is a circular reasoning). Only because the advantages to do some things are so strong that natural selection has made this behavior so pleasurable.
And this link is compulsory. So I don't know why sexual intercourse (why that more than rubbing the index of someone?) or eating will give you some pleasure if it has absolutely no interest in terms of biology.
Indeed the sexual drive is only due to testosterone (even women produce that). We know that it's also quite bad for your health (Eunuchs live longer). So I would probably foresee an extinction of sexual drive/sexuality and eating pleasure in the future (and probably replaced by others, more useful for individual or society of these future times).

Edited by Pour_la_Science, 28 November 2011 - 03:29 PM.

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#2 steampoweredgod

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 10:09 PM

In a post-scarcity society where we have the ability to genetically engineer ourselves, and provide other augmentations. It is up to us what and how pleasure will affect us. In the end it is not the particular substances per-se, but merely the designated circuitry in the brain and the way it reacts and is connected, this will be open for modification.

Given direct neural stimulation, anything from skin sensation, to mouth sensations, to orgasms*(some surgeons claim to have accomplished this even today in women) is possible. While our inherited biology sets certain things, which some may seek to retain, the future is open in terms of design

We no longer need any action for survival provided a fully automated future where aging is cured, man would be free to leisure and undertake pleasures physically and intellectually indefinitely. There is no need for them to be vinculated to any useful function. It is likely even the highs accomplished by drugs will be possible, provided future technology, without long term damaging our nervous system or health as present drugs do.

#3 hivemind

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 11:07 PM

Life without eating and fucking would be completely pointless. I would propably want to die if I was made into an eunuch.

Edited by hivemind, 28 November 2011 - 11:07 PM.

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#4 Pour_la_Science

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 01:49 PM

Life without eating and fucking would be completely pointless. I would propably want to die if I was made into an eunuch.

I think your reaction illustrates well what I reject inside Kurzweil's theory. Our brains are so bound to sexuality/eating that we can imagine a future without them as pleasure.

But have you asked yourself why is sexuality/eating so pleasurable ? Only because it's a question of life or death for your genes. That's all.

If one day, rubbing your own left toe twice in a clockwise fashion was decisive to propagate your genes (by whatever mechanisms...), you would say:
"Life without rubbing my own left toe twice in a clockwise fashion would be completely pointless. I would probably want to die if I hadn't the possibility to do so."
because this behavior would automatically be selected inside your brain to give you the maximum of pleasure.


@steampoweredgod: If sexuality and eating were one day absolutely no related to natural advantages so powerful than the survival of your genes, I don't know why the brain circuits sustaining them would be kept at all. For example, sexuality has absolutely no benefits for an individualistic point of view. Maybe the brain circuits will not disappear initially, but, without selective pressure, they would follow a random distribution among population.
Even if Human can free themselves of natural selection one day completely, the biology principles apply always: selection and elimination of the useless. It's what is happening continually inside your brain when you're learning. We don't think it's something bad.

Edited by Pour_la_Science, 29 November 2011 - 01:56 PM.


#5 platypus

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 02:12 PM

But have you asked yourself why is sexuality/eating so pleasurable ? Only because it's a question of life or death for your genes. That's all.

The "why" does not matter at all. Sexuality is form a self-expression that most people cannot really live without - and why would they want to?
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#6 Pour_la_Science

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 03:49 PM

But have you asked yourself why is sexuality/eating so pleasurable ? Only because it's a question of life or death for your genes. That's all.

The "why" does not matter at all. Sexuality is form a self-expression that most people cannot really live without - and why would they want to?


It is a form of expression. But I disagree about thinking like you that it's absolutely pure random that this form of expression has been chosen. There is always a "why".
Conversely, I think that the question "why would they want to?" has no sense. People don't choose to have a sexuality. the biology imposes upon them, more precisely by the advantage it gives to propagate their genes.

Edited by Pour_la_Science, 29 November 2011 - 03:57 PM.


#7 YanaRay

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:12 PM

Eating and sex - yes, they're pleasurable, but... I would be quite disappointed if that was it really. Maybe I'm just oversensitive to some things but I find great pleasure in touching different textures/surfaces with my eyes closed, watching the sunlight under water, lying on the grass when it rains (eyes closed again) and feeling like slowly dissolving into the ground. That gives me a different kind of pleasure and if you asked me what I crave more - the answer would be simple. If someone could - somehow - give me synesthesia for a year, add colour to smell or tactile feeling to sound I could give up sex and eating for pleasure completely and waste my life away in multi-sensory rooms :) Now THAT would be extremely addicting for me. I'm quite sure my pupils are huge already when I'm writing this ;)

Edited by YanaRay, 03 May 2012 - 08:14 PM.

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#8 Droplet

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 06:04 AM

Hi!
I read some time ago the book from Kurzweil : The Singularity is Near.
Some points were troubling me during the reading of certain chapters:
According to Kurzweil,in the future we will keep more or less the same type of pleasures, but with only a lot of more possibilities. He gives the example of the sexual pleasure, you can be a man or a woman, according to your wishes, and about eating pleasure, you can eat as often as you want. Because all these pleasures will be separated from their primitive objectives, like reproduction, bringing nutrients etc...

As long as there is still pleasure, all is good. :) Eat as often as I want would be ace...no chocolate making me fat! :laugh:
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#9 ADVANCESSSS

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 08:54 PM

 

Life without eating and fucking would be completely pointless. I would propably want to die if I was made into an eunuch.

I think your reaction illustrates well what I reject inside Kurzweil's theory. Our brains are so bound to sexuality/eating that we can imagine a future without them as pleasure.

But have you asked yourself why is sexuality/eating so pleasurable ? Only because it's a question of life or death for your genes. That's all.

If one day, rubbing your own left toe twice in a clockwise fashion was decisive to propagate your genes (by whatever mechanisms...), you would say:
"Life without rubbing my own left toe twice in a clockwise fashion would be completely pointless. I would probably want to die if I hadn't the possibility to do so."
because this behavior would automatically be selected inside your brain to give you the maximum of pleasure.


@steampoweredgod: If sexuality and eating were one day absolutely no related to natural advantages so powerful than the survival of your genes, I don't know why the brain circuits sustaining them would be kept at all. For example, sexuality has absolutely no benefits for an individualistic point of view. Maybe the brain circuits will not disappear initially, but, without selective pressure, they would follow a random distribution among population.
Even if Human can free themselves of natural selection one day completely, the biology principles apply always: selection and elimination of the useless. It's what is happening continually inside your brain when you're learning. We don't think it's something bad.

 

No a consciousness will always want to go near another consciousness, (even if two huge balls in space) which is straight* and be lovers, of course in desired forms though alot better and desired........consciousnesses can also in a very small way also be friends. I have thought if everybody can turn into a plasuable most attractive girlish body and be set to be most attracted to it would then be most attracted to yourself, all the rest, and are 8 billion married together lol? Just imagine lol. Later as a god I will sit/neal on a a huge white bright plain for millions of years and figure everything out...

 

Eating and sex - yes, they're pleasurable, but... I would be quite disappointed if that was it really. Maybe I'm just oversensitive to some things but I find great pleasure in touching different textures/surfaces with my eyes closed, watching the sunlight under water, lying on the grass when it rains (eyes closed again) and feeling like slowly dissolving into the ground. That gives me a different kind of pleasure and if you asked me what I crave more - the answer would be simple. If someone could - somehow - give me synesthesia for a year, add colour to smell or tactile feeling to sound I could give up sex and eating for pleasure completely and waste my life away in multi-sensory rooms :) Now THAT would be extremely addicting for me. I'm quite sure my pupils are huge already when I'm writing this ;)

Lol nooo you want most attractive partner to "you" with long hair and fringe ya lol

And if you read my profile can see the other most best things can get in the utopia/heaven is for example infinite complex beautiful places, never ending games that get harder that are best/and in detail, tastiest food


Edited by ADVANCE, 08 July 2014 - 09:02 PM.


#10 Area-1255

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 06:46 PM

 

Hi!
I read some time ago the book from Kurzweil : The Singularity is Near.
Some points were troubling me during the reading of certain chapters:
According to Kurzweil,in the future we will keep more or less the same type of pleasures, but with only a lot of more possibilities. He gives the example of the sexual pleasure, you can be a man or a woman, according to your wishes, and about eating pleasure, you can eat as often as you want. Because all these pleasures will be separated from their primitive objectives, like reproduction, bringing nutrients etc...

As long as there is still pleasure, all is good. :) Eat as often as I want would be ace...no chocolate making me fat! :laugh:

 

Buy organic chocolate then, dark cacao with organic coffee in it. ;)


Edited by Area-1255, 16 December 2014 - 06:47 PM.


#11 Danail

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 11:29 PM

The pldasure forms in our brain, right? Then I pedict, thet the future of pleasure will be something affecting the brain.It can be a stimulation device for the brain, or some chemical, or a drug. When you use it, you will feel the 100% of the pleasure, that your brain can provide. If can be actually the only thing, that can make you feel 100% pleasure.
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