14 replies to this topic

[brokenportal]

Mike Treder has been missing since Wednesday? http://ieet.org/inde.../treder20120318

Transhumanist leader and IEET Fellow Mike Treder has been missing since Wednesday March 14 since he went to a conference in Detroit. No one in his family has heard from him or been able to contact him.

Mike was at the 55th Annual Science and Engineering Fair of Metro Detroit 2011-2012 which was held at the Cobo Center in Detroit from 3/13 to 3/17.

If you have any information that might help us find Mike please contact J. Hughes at director@ieet.org.

Attached Files

•  Mike Treder.png   599.95KB   0 downloads

[brokenportal]

Mike was in the Longecity book, I think he may also have been in the documentary. Bruce had an interview/chat with him here: http://www.longecity...ch-chat-nov-16/ I think we interacted with him recently too, about the cryo project likely.

He just recorded this interview with Massimo Pigliucci on March 11th. http://bloggingheads.tv/videos/2483 Maybe there is a clue in there.

[brokenportal]

This is a screen shot from his March 11 2012 bloggingheads interview, maybe the most recent image of him possible.

 Mike Treder from March 11 2012 bloggingheads interview.JPG   12.34KB   4 downloads

Edited by brokenportal, 19 March 2012 - 04:22 AM.

[brokenportal]

There are 3 billboards available in the Cobo Center area there where Mike went missing. It's $1,800 for one, or $4,500 for all three. That's a phenomenally good price if you ask me, but regardless of the price, is anybody here in support of Longecity raising the money for 1 to 3 billboards?

I'm waiting for James Hughes to send me the go ahead on this from the family right now. If they say yes, then if the board would agree to it then I would propose a 24 hour fundraiser with a $1,800 minimum, mass email sent out linking to it, excess beyond $4,500 to go to the family for a reward fund or other. It takes around 7 days for the billboards to go up, maybe less if they push it. I'll ask James or the family to send in the info for the billboard agency to create the sign with. I propose we send the money to the family if they prefer, and give them control over it with any stipulations.

 Detroit Metro public service billboard pricing.bmp   1.21MB   1 downloads

[Mind]

I think it might be more effective to contact local media in Detroit. Local TV stations. Local Radio. Local Newspapers. I don't think billboards would be a good option for this situation. I assume the family has contacted Detroit police. If not, that would be imperative.

I suggest an email/fax/phone campaign, that states something to the effect of "Famous scientist last seen in Detroit......"

[Shannon Vyff]

I think it might be more effective to contact local media in Detroit. Local TV stations. Local Radio. Local Newspapers. I don't think billboards would be a good option for this situation. I assume the family has contacted Detroit police. If not, that would be imperative.

I suggest an email/fax/phone campaign, that states something to the effect of "Famous scientist last seen in Detroit......"

I agree with Mind. First that is too much money to spend on billboards which would not be that effective anyway--Second Radio, TV and Newspapers would all be more likely to get leads. I'm sure the family has contacted local police, apparently he had talked about taking a look at some area lakes before leaving on FB--his sister said within the comments on the IEET site (under the article about him missing) that he always would take risks when hiking. He may be hurt and stuck outside in the elements. Really, there needs to be a concerted search in the area --"Missing Scientist" might get volunteers out to help local rescue crews.

[brokenportal]

Good idea, I wrote to almost every page that came up for Detroit in Facebook. I called up a map and am going through every place in the area in Facebook or emailing them, and there are a variety of other people I have seen doing the same thing. Ive written to the free press there, WWJ, Detroit News, a few other news sources, the library, the clinic, the bars in the area, "people movers" etc.. I've been using "A pillar in life or death cause missing, Cobo Center area" but I think that famous scientist missing in Cobo Center area might work even better.

[Wanderer2]

I hear what you're saying, Shannon. If his sister said that he always would take risks when hiking. He may be hurt and stuck outside in the elements. He have had an accident. But after reading the longecity interview/chat and he was talking about some major concerns dealing with the wrong people coming up with MNT before the United States. I'll let the chat speak for its self. The crossed out line are just stupid little jokes. Mostly about fluid pants.


[20:19] <EmilG> That's the time frame you give on the web site, and Chris's new paper details the bootstrapping we can do *once we have the first assembler* ... but you don't say anything about the path from here to the first assembler, or why we should expect that time frame.

[20:21] <Treder> What's happening now is that all kinds of enabling technologies are being developed. Ability to see and manipulate atoms and molecules at the nanoscale...

[20:21] <Treder> ...also software to manage the work going on at that level...
[20:21] <EmilG> But I still remain highly skeptical that a nano-assembler will emerge in the next 20 years.
[20:22] <Treder> ...it's all a work in progress, and as far as we know, there is no dedicated project for building an assembler, but we think it's inevitable that as time goes by and costs reduce and abilities increase, then someone will see the value of an investment.

[20:22] <@BruceK> Emil, there are already biological nano-assemblers.. just a matter of time.. no?
[20:23] <EmilG> BruceK: I know perfectly well that the theory of molecular nanotechnology is sound, and that Drexler's proposals are right. Contra Smalley et al.

[20:24] <Treder> Keep in mind that serious research into this field is still very young and not many people are working on it -- it's amazing that so much has already happened. So when a large nation decides to support a serious effort...

[20:24] <EmilG> But I just don't see anyone interested in molecular nanotechnology outside of a small group of Foresight folks.
[20:24] <Treder> AFAIK, you are right. We do wonder, though, about China...

[20:25] <haploid> EmilG: people who want fluid-proof pants.
[20:25] <@BruceK> I think the increase in funding by governments is telling...

[20:25] <EmilG> haploid: That's not real nanotechnology. BruceK: That's not real nanotechnology.
[20:25] <Jonesey> MNT already exists, albeit in messy biological form. getting cleaner with that new artificial virus from Venter's group

[20:25] <outlawpoet> haploid, I have fluid proof pants
[20:26] <outlawpoet> they rock.
[20:26] <Jonesey> get real, emilg

[20:26] <EmilG> Sorry if I sound confrontational, but I see nothing to indicate we'll get to an assembler in the next 20 years.
[20:26] <outlawpoet> teflon impregnated artificial fiber.
[20:26] <outlawpoet> they sold them at the GAP for a while.

[20:26] <Treder> I honestly hope you are right, Emil. That would make us breathe easier at CRN. Our fear is that the ability will arrive before the world is prepared to handle it safely.

[20:26] <@BruceK> MikeT.. will the assembler be derived from biolocial to man-made.. or a pure man-made?
[20:27] <@MichaelA> Mike: fantastic idea, translating your website into Chinese!

[20:27] <Jonesey> EmilG:You're chatting with a bunch of assemblers right now.
[20:27] <@BruceK> Jonesey.. i think he knows this

[20:27] <Treder> Could happen either way, Bruce. But we think dry nano has advantages and will probably get there first.
[20:27] <EmilG> Jonesey: I *know* that; see above. I know man-made assemblers, in theory, can work. I know Drexler is right.
[20:27] <Jonesey>

[20:28] <outlawpoet> dry nano meaning, fully artificial? or something else?
[20:28] <Treder> Fully artificial and designed.
[20:28] <Jonesey> in theory? all of the organisms that are harnessed now to produce specific molecules are, in my mind, a messy biotech.

[20:28] <Jonesey> nanotech wups.
[20:28] <EmilG> outlawpoet: Even with "wet" nano, the goal is to use wet nano to make dry nano.
[20:28] <Jonesey> and it keeps getting cleaner all the time. that seems to me the most promising path to what I think you see as "real" MNT

[20:29] <EmilG> Hmm. I would like to see a paper from CRN, similar to the bootstrapping paper, on getting from here to the first assembler (no matter how crude).

[20:29] <Treder> It appears that molecular manufacturing will most easily be done in a sealed vacuum within a nanofactory.
[20:29] <@BruceK> MikeT, do you give a % chance to the possibiltiy of a nano 911 within the next few decadeds?
[20:29] <Treder> Emil, the paper you describe is one of our next projects.
[20:29] <Treder> Ick, Bruce, what a creepy question.

[20:29] <EmilG> Treder: Cool. Did you see Hal Finney's recent post on Extropy, and Dan Clemmensen's response?
[20:30] <@BruceK> MikeT, it may help give this problem a focus
[20:30] <Treder> I don't want to give a % probability, but I do want to say the possibility is high enough that we MUST prepare -- or better yet, prevent.

[20:30] <Treder> Emil, I didn't see Hal's or Dan's posts. What did they say?
[20:30] <outlawpoet> Do you see a disconnect between the current theories of design, and the theories of fabrication? because I see a great deal of ideas of structures, and a many ideas on how to construct nanotech, but rarely studies on how the two interact.

[20:31] <outlawpoet> It seems that design should follow fabrication, because working at the scale is so hard.
[20:31] <Treder> Outlaw, I'm not sure I understand your question.
[20:31] <outlawpoet> well, there are lots of designs for joints and edges and engines and computers and such.

[20:32] <EmilG> Hal Finney's post: (Link: http://forum.javien....Mx-LRJnNDQrSFUM
[20:32] <outlawpoet> but they don't seem to take into account what is easier and harder to construct.

[20:32] <Treder> Thx!

[20:32] <EmilG> Dan Clemmensen's response: (Link: http://forum.javien....cC-VWASA0M7MRMV
[20:32] <Jonesey> if enough people are mad at you and want to kill you, you're going down. the best way to cut the danger from MNT is to work on some serious global anger management.

[20:32] <Crypsis> heh
[20:32] <Treder> Both have value

[20:32] <outlawpoet> they're designs, without the kind of attention paid to the fabrication process that industrial engineers tend to do for example.

[20:32] <TCI> The possibility of an asteroid hitting Earth is extremely low, but it will happen sooner or later. Same with new technology - it inevitably will be used for brutal purposes, and like other risks, we must prepare to deal with it.
[20:33] <EmilG> Jonesey: Or Friendly AI

[20:33] <Treder> Outlaw, I think both design and fabrication have to go forward, as they can drive each other.
[20:33] <outlawpoet> it seems like the design of nanoscale components should follow theories of fabrication more than theories of design, but I don't see a great deal of exploration of that concept.

[20:34] <outlawpoet> like early machine tools being designed for the possible tolerances at that time.
[20:34] <outlawpoet> as tolerances decreased, different designs became feasible.

[20:35] <Treder> Right. We are pushing for more work on software design, that is CAD tools for MNT product design.
[20:36] <EmilG> Treder: Any idea what Drexler is doing these days?

[20:36] <outlawpoet> can current CAD tools be modified for work in molecular designs?
[20:37] <outlawpoet> or are the rules sufficiently different to require de novo interaces?
[20:37] <Treder> Well, Eric Drexler is on the Board of Advisors for CRN, so he spends at least some time advising us. Lately, though, he's been putting a lot of time into a debate with Richard Smalley which will be published soon.
[20:37] <Jonesey> what are they debating?

[20:38] <Treder> "Is MNT possible?"
[20:38] <Jonesey> haha what a dumb q
[20:38] <Jonesey> how can a living product of mnt ask this q?
[20:38] <Treder> Smalley still says no.

[20:38] <@MichaelA> This article: (Link: http://www.wired.com...2,59268,00.html
[20:38] <Jonesey> it's like asking if carbon life forms are possible.
[20:38] <Treder> And because he's a Nobel Prize winner, a lot of people listen to him.
[20:38] <Jonesey> well look in the mirror.

[20:38] <@MichaelA> "The only work focused on the goal (of molecular machines) is low-level, bootleg research being done by people in their spare time," Drexler said.
[20:38] <@MichaelA> I thought that sounded sort of odd for Drexler to say
[20:38] <EmilG> He's been debating Richard Smalley? I thought he sent an Open Letter to Smalley a while back and didn't get a response, and that was it.

[20:39] <EmilG> MichaelA: But it's true.
[20:39] <@MichaelA> Yet CAD software is constantly improving
[20:39] <Treder> Smalley responded offline, they had an exchange, and it will go public in about two weeks.

[20:39] <@BruceK> MikeT, would you mind answering a few questions about physical immortality?
[20:39] <Treder> OK.

[20:40] <@BruceK> first off.. do you think there's anything after death?

[20:40] <Treder> Not without cryonic suspension and restoration.
[20:40] <Jonesey> u signed up yet mike?
[20:40] <@BruceK> thus, one's consciousnes.. the self is lost forever.. right?
[20:41] <Treder> No, I don't think the technology is matire enough yet to work. But as I get older, I may change my mind!
[20:41] <Jonesey> haha

[20:41] <Treder> Bruce: Yes, the self is a function of the physical brain.
[20:41] <Treder> matire = mature
[20:42] <@BruceK> is the reason why you're working on nano is that you'd like to live longer?
[20:42] <@BruceK> or one of the reasons...

[20:42] <Treder> That's one reason. But even if I succumb to senseless death, I hope to make a contribution that will allow others to live.

[20:43] <@BruceK> that's kind of you
[20:43] <Treder> Aw, it's nothin'

[20:43] <@BruceK> what got you motivated to work with nano?
[20:44] <Treder> Nano has gthe potential to offer radical life extension, perhaps indefinite life -- but first we have to survive the introduction of MNT in the next 10-20 years, and it could get very rocky.

I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist, but some of that sounds good enough to me for an abduction. Or worse. Didn't want to write that last part, but there you go. Mike is a scientist trying to keep science moving in the right, direction. What if someone doesn't want to use MNT in the "right way"? The Center for Responsible Nanotechnology is a voice in the world for anyone with a computer to 'listen to'.
By the way. I'd say about 99.7% of the links in that interview are now broken. Like I said. I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist. I think what I've written already has likely made an already tense situation even more intense. Unless you can all have a laugh at it. I just received the email that Brokenportal sent and then read what I read, watched the news clip. What else can you really expect from a fiction writer. But if thing's do turn out in a bad way. Conspiracy theory, or no. Please offer Mike's family my sincerest condolences.
Jim.

Edited by Wanderer2, 20 March 2012 - 02:45 AM.

[brokenportal]

The family has gotten back on this now and says that we can go ahead with a billboard.

Janet Treder Taylor

• Eric, the family opinion is- yes, a billboard will be good, but we don't have resources to manage any portion of what you are suggesting. If you and your group can do it, that is fine; we appreciate it, but we can't do it with you. Of course you can use our Mike Treder is Missing flyers for the info and pics you need. Thank you again for your interest!!

So this means essentially that we would flip on the fundraising tracker for 24 hours or so, and raise money for this. We dont have to spend a dime of Longecity money, and we are not going to have to worry about burning community goodwill by looking for one of our own. I think that there is a good chance that the money will appear there in an instant. There are hundreds of people talking about this around the Transhuman communities.

So I know there are other things that can be done about this, those have been done, and all but exhausted. There is a chance that the man could come back alive and a billboard could make that difference.

Edited by brokenportal, 20 March 2012 - 04:02 PM.

[buckwheats]

here's the IEET's update on Mike Treder:

http://ieet.org/inde..._on_mike_treder

Reports have been issued from the family, indicating that they believe Mike is safe and thanking IEET members for their help.

A report has been issued from Steve Treder. The report states:

“The police have confirmation that Mike left Detroit and entered Canada last week. We don’t know why. But with no evidence that violence has been done to him, the investigation as to his whereabouts is being suspended indefinitely. The family thanks everyone for their concern.”

Another statement by the family says: “We believe he went on his own volition and is safe. So there is no longer a need for an investigation into his whereabouts. The family would like to thank everyone for their concern.”

Here’s a news article on the matter:

Family calls off search for New York man who went missing in Detroit http://www.freep.com...|text|FRONTPAGE

—-

IEET is going to respect the privacy of the family members by closing all discussion and speculation on the incident.

We thank everyone for their deep concern and energy devoted to the matter.

[Luminosity]

What a mystery.

[Shannon Vyff]

This has been strange, quite a mystery. For anyone following this, no one has updated here in a while but Mike has still not contacted any friends, family, loved ones or colleagues (not even his pregnant daughter, nor the woman he was saying he loved with no indication anything was wrong up until he went missing). He has been spotted around the world, even in Budapest, there is evidence that he planned this traveling in advance. He may have a psychological problem, some reason for unwarranted paranoia or an actual need to go under cover-no one knows. His family is hurting, as well as colleagues that have been left hanging. There are legit routes to get help if he thought everyone he knew would be in danger, or that he himself were in danger. I do hope we get to hear the rest of the story--I can't imagine how one would do such a thing to their family without say going into witness protection, or just letting them know somehow what is going on (through third party or anonymous means). It is all strange and still very much a mystery, glad we didn't spend any money on a billboard

[Mind]

I am sad for his family and friends, and I hope he finds his way back safely, but I also find this intriguing. I am wondering why this story has not been picked up by major media outlets. It is an interesting modern day vanishing act of someone who his semi-famous, at least in techno-futurist circles. Instead of "Where is Mike Treder?" we get "Alec Baldwin has a stalker", "Nancy Grace has a wardrobe malfunction", and "Kim Kardashian is lonely after her divorce". Egads, what a sad commentary on popular media and national TV networks.

[Droplet]

I am sad for his family and friends, and I hope he finds his way back safely, but I also find this intriguing. I am wondering why this story has not been picked up by major media outlets. It is an interesting modern day vanishing act of someone who his semi-famous, at least in techno-futurist circles. Instead of "Where is Mike Treder?" we get "Alec Baldwin has a stalker", "Nancy Grace has a wardrobe malfunction", and "Kim Kardashian is lonely after her divorce". Egads, what a sad commentary on popular media and national TV networks.

A few years ago in UK, we had a day when there were wars and people dying and other things around the world but what was the major headline? The fact that David Beckham had cut his hair. The fascination with the trivial things in the lives of people who are human like the rest of us but happen to have a talent will never cease to amaze and confuse me.

I hope he finds his way back safely too.

[Luminosity]

I don't know him. A lot more people are snapping these days than before. It would make a fascinating story. If he is either in danger or mentally ill, I'm not sure the story would help him, though.