14 replies to this topic

[atp_none]

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone could give me advice on the following stack/regimen; any relevant information would be greatly appreciated. I'm a 26yo male (student) and my aim in taking these supplements is sharper focus, better memory and better cognitive performance in general.

Currently, my supplement intake consists of the following:

Product *** Brand *** Current dosage
- GHV *** [1Fast400] *** Ginkgo 60mg, huperzine 500mcg, vinpocetine 5mg - per serving)
- Piracetam *** [1Fast400] *** 1600 - 2400mg per day (abt. 800mg per dose)
- Acetyl L-Carnetine *** [1Fast400] *** 1Fast400 @ abt. 1600 - 2400 per day (800mg p/dose)
- Q10 *** [Domestic brand] *** 1 p/day, CO-Enzyme 15mg/Vit. E 10mg
- Multivitamin V75 *** [Solgar] *** 1
- Lecithin *** [Dom. brand] *** Lecithine concentrate, 2000mg - 2 per day?!
- Fish Oil *** [" " ] *** Fish Oil 1000mg, 18% EPA and 12% DHA, lemon oil 1,5mg, Vit.E 10ie - 4 per day?
- Now/Truefocus and an extra amount of vitamin B are sometimes added.

In addition, I would like to order the following from 1Fast400 (some compounds already included in my current regimen, I copied from the order).

- 50 grams Alpha-GPC Powder
- 700 grams Piracetam Powder
- 90 Capsules GHV
- 75 grams Acetyl-L-Carnitine Powder
- 120 Capsules/100 mg R-ALA
- 2 lb Dextrose
- 30 grams Phenibut Powder

I've already done some research into the subject and have concluded that these supplements would probably have the most benefit for my particular wishes. However, I'm not really sure as to the optimal dosages and which time of day is best to take them. Should I add something to counteract unwanted effects, or should I leave something out?
Also, I was wondering about the ratio ALCAR (which has proved very beneficiary so far)/Alpha-GPC/R-Ala. Would my current lecithin intake still be necessary if I stack ALCAR with Alpha GPC? And exactly how much fish oil would be needed? I've been advised to take 10x2000mg of my current brand (see above) for the EPA/DHA; this, to me, seems like an awful lot...

Okay, that's enough with the questions for now Just trying to assure that what I was planning is the right thing to do. As I already said, any input would be very welcome...

Thanks in advance and regards,
Erik

Edited by atp_none, 02 March 2005 - 10:57 PM.

[wraith]

Also, I was wondering about the ratio ALCAR (which has proved very beneficiary so far)/Alpha-GPC/R-Ala. Would my current lecithin intake still be necessary if I stack ALCAR with Alpha GPC? And exactly how much fish oil would be needed? I've been advised to take 10x2000mg of my current brand (see above) for the EPA/DHA; this, to me, seems like an awful lot...

Can you clarify the ratio? What : what exactly? I don't have any answers for you, but I'm curious, so I'd like to follow this discussion. I hope someone answers.

[wraith]

Oh, the only thing I know is you really need to add the ALA if you are taking the ALCAR. (Bruce Ames says so).

[wraith]

And you might need more CoQ10, depending on your age.

[wraith]

And what on earth do you need the sugar for?

[atp_none]

Can you clarify the ratio? What : what exactly? I don't have any answers for you, but I'm curious, so I'd like to follow this discussion. I hope someone answers.

Ofcourse, it's not really clear beacause of my comment in between but I meant the ratio ALCAR:R-Ala. I.e. how much R-Ala would be needed at an intake of 1600mg ALCAR per day. Don't know (believe not) whether the alpha-GPC dosage is dependant on the ALCAR/R-Ala intake.

[atp_none]

And what on earth do you need the sugar for?

Oh, that wasn't even supposed to be in there... Let's call that testimonial to the fact that better focus through nootropics is badly needed;]

[wraith]

I thought Ames recommended 1:5; so, for example, 200mg ALA : 1000mg AlCAR. I take 100mg ALA 2x a day (but it isn't R-ALA) and 500mg ALCAR. ALCAR is just too expensive. I could be wrong; I wish I has kept the article.

~~~

You're not the only one who needs 'em (the nootropics). I hope in a few months I'll have a stack that I can afford, feel comfortable about (safety-wise), and, of course, *works*.

[REGIMEN]

1fast400 carries the NOW Foods brand of fish oil product called Super EPA. They come in bottles of 120 pills and have about twice the EPA/DHA per pill.

The phenibut...read up on old posts here. I'm guessing you've read up, but I don't know your intentions for usage of it, so good luck! I like it as a party popper; you get relaxed and don't really need to drink as much so it might be a nice way to save money by significantly cutting your drinking expenses. It's seldom I do this...maybe once a month, and no ill effects. Just watch your dose and drink extra fluids before bed if you do consume alcohol with it. No binging! [thumb]

The ALCAR dose you list is kind of high IMO, but you might just be peeing some of it away(?). I would work the dose down to see if you can get the same effects. At that kind of dose I, too, recommend some sort of RALA/KRALA addition.

CoQ10...heard of Idebenone? It's a derivative of CoQ10 so check up on that.

Think I'll check out the GHV product you mentioned as a replacement to the elusive picamilon and generic ginkgo I take. Thanks for the lead!

Edited by liplex, 04 March 2005 - 02:01 AM.

[atp_none]

liplex >> thanks for the sugesstion about Super-EPA, I was looking for something like that. I'll certainly add it to my next order.

The phenibut wasn't actually part of my (daily) nootropic regime. I wasn't planning on taking it daily, but thought that it would come in handy when having to do presentations of some sort at school. However, if the effects are too strong I'll only take it 'recreationally' or for social situations as you suggested.

About the ALCAR, well, I suppose the dose is indeed kind of high. I'll lower the dose until the R-Ala and Alpha GPC arrive, then finetune consumption in line with the remarks here and my personal experiences. I've read about idebenone, but it stills seems a bit expensive compared to the generic Q10 supplements sold over here.

The GHV is actually quite good imho, I can definitely recommend trying it out. I've been told however that a minimum of 3-4 p/day is required for a substantial noticeable effect from the vinpocetine/huperzine.... Thanks for the reply.

[stellar]

The phenibut...read up on old posts here.  The general consensus around here and the Avant forums is it should not be used often due to issues with liver toxicity. 

Please provide a citation of your claim. I tried searching the avant archives, using various keywords, and nothing came up related to phenibut and liver toxicity.

Consider David Tolson's article:


"Phenibut has low acute toxicity. Reported LD50s (dose required to kill 50% of laboratory animals) are 900 mg/kg i.p. in mice, 700 mg/kg i.p. in rats, and 1000 mg/kg in rats (method of administration not given) [2, 34]. Chronic administration of 50 mg/kg did not have teratogenic effects in rats [34]. In clinical studies, no signs of toxicity have been reported, and side effects are few. "

From: http://www.1fast400....4_Phenibut.html

[REGIMEN]

swoop! there you go -stellar-. I censor myself.
Sorry for the reckless post,everyone, and for bringing it to my attention, stellar. I think I may have just grouped together some ideas from the forum here, at 1fast400, and yeah, possibly not avant. I'll keep my mouth shut until I have citations from now on. Thanks for the spanking. No harm intended to any parties involved.

[drmz]

I'm a 26yo male (student) and my aim in taking these supplements is sharper focus, better memory and better cognitive performance in general.

What about a better mood [wis]

[atp_none]

I'm a 26yo male (student) and my aim in taking these supplements is sharper focus, better memory and better cognitive performance in general.

What about a better mood [wis]

Hmm, no, that's not a priority right now [wis]

[atp_none]

Well, I've recently ordered the stuff from 1Fast400, my stack currently consists of the following:

* Fish-oil/Super Epa - 3x a day -> 1 capsule 360mg EPA/240mg DHA [Super EPA, NOW] + 1 capsule 180mg EPA, 120mg DHA [Generic Fishoil]
= Total p/day 1620mg EPA/1080mg DHA
* Piracetam - 2-3x times a day -> approx. 1g [Bulk 1F400] = Total 2-3g p/day
* Alcar - 2x a day -> 500mg [Bulk 1F400] = 1g p/day
* Alpha GPC - 2x a day -> 500mg [Bulk 1F400] = 1g p/day
* R-Ala - 2x a day -> 1 cap @ 100mg [SAN] = 200mg p/day
* Silymarin extract 2-3x a day -> 150mg [NOW Foods] = 300-450mg p/day

* Extra, not regular -> GHV [1F400], Truefocus, L-Tyrosine.

Times of ingestion are in most cases 9, 12 and 3 o'clock. Alcar-doses are taken a half hour before the rest, usually before meal.

Am I going about this the right way? I've read a fair amount of information on doses/time of day to take them, but in some cases there are a lot of contradicting conclusions, esp. with the ALCAR dosages. Would I find this to be beneificial in any way over time, or am I under-/overdosing?

Any input on objective or empirical findings is appreciated.