23 replies to this topic

[Pablo M]

1) I was walking home from the library the other day. I was on the sidewalk at a Y-junction. I guess a driver had taken his eyes off the road and the car hit the curb and jumped up onto the boulevard. He jerked the wheel and the car pulled away. The thing was, it was about 4 feet away and headed right for me, and if he hadn't grabbed the wheel I probably would not be writing this now. There was no reaction that would have saved my life had the car continued. The thing was, I felt calm the entire time; normally I am a pretty jumpy person... so I am wondering, does piracatem have any cortisol- or adrenaline-reducing effects? It sure as hell seems that way.

2) I'm taking piracatem/hydergine right now and really like them. Do any of you notice a drop in creativity when you take ritalin/straterra? The reason I ask is that I took Paxil once and found it dumbed me down, a terrifying effect. I know these drugs are very different, but I know a lot of people who have taken both so this perhaps leads me to equate the two in my mind. I love nootropics as they only enhance my creativity. What effects does Strattera have?


Thanks for any info.

[Bruce Klein]

I've not had such calming effect, but sorry to know of your near death experience. Has this accidental event caused you to consider cryonics per chance?

[eternaltraveler]

In times of extreme stress I become completely calm as well. I remember a time when I was driving at about 85 mph when another car cut me off sharply causing me to spin out of control and flip over 3.5 times (I ended up upside down), I was absolutely calm through the event, I even laughed.

When something happens where you have absolutely no control over the situation, and your fate rests on the flip of a coin, there is no point at all in worrying.

[Infernity]

Elrond sometimes it is naturally...:
Once in an annual school trip I almost fell off a cliff, I was terrified at the moment. Luckily one of my friends catched me in the last momernt. Heh I can remember my heart pounding...

Yours truthfully
~Infernity

[transtigger]

Interesting,

I too have experienced similar moments of calm during close shaves in my aviational activities. However, I believe it is a known, and even studied phenomena in aviation circles. I remember reading reports of pilots feeling something akin to an out-of-body experience when encountering moments of acute danger. They often accredited such experiences for helping them calmly extract themselves from the peril at hand.

I also remember reading, that in the 1940's, that British aircraft manufacturers (either Miles or Airspeed, can't remember which) designed an aircraft with the pilot in out-of-body location that many pilots reported they found themselves - somewhere just behind and above the aircraft.

My experience was very similar, when I was once landing a glider and a visiting aircraft landed (incorrectly) on the cross-runway. I felt myself above and behind myself, calmly and deliberately instructing myself to retract the airbrakes to give my sailplane just sufficient lift to miss the other plane by what must have been a few feet. Many of those observing the incident (it was near the launch point) were amazed that there was no collision and many were in mild shock of witnessing an near catastrophe. Yet I felt completely calm. So there is probably some evolved primal chemical response going on somewhere within the brain (adrenaline side-effect?). I just find it curious that it was close to the classic near death out-of-body experience often reported.

Julian

[susmariosep]

So, what is the right answer?


Dontec mentioned a personal experience where he should have died from an instance of recklessly thoughtless driving of a mindless motorist, and he attributed his calm nonchalance to a drug.

No doubt about that, there are drugs which can put you in a 'give no damn' mind and heart.

Then there fellow here recountings of seemingly similar experiences of close deadly dangers in which the subject is calmly nonchalant not agitated and even in full possession of his senses, but without having ingested drugs prior to the experience.

What I observe is that all experiences mentioned have to do with an event which is not from a fellow human as the causative agent acting with deliberate intent at death-inflicting harm to the could-be victim, but from essentially chance combination of blind forces.

Suppose the death-inflicting experience were due from a fellow human acting with deliberate intent to seriously injure and even kill, would a person be still calmly nonchalant, without the influence of drugs?

I am inclined to think not, meaning that faced with such a fellow human intent on ill toward me I would be in the full and high alert mode with all my body systems in urgent defense or flight tension readiness or in both.

My suspicion is that to blind forces acting on us we seem to immediately respond with acceptance if not resignation, hence calm nonchalance; because we can't reason out with such blind forces of chance combination, and we can't attribute the destruction veering toward us to malice.

Susma

[lynx]

1) I was walking home from the library the other day. I was on the sidewalk at a Y-junction. I guess a driver had taken his eyes off the road and the car hit the curb and jumped up onto the boulevard. He jerked the wheel and the car pulled away. The thing was right for me, and if he hadn't grabbed the wheel I probably would not be writing this now. There was no reaction that would have saved my life had the car continued. The thing was, I felt calm the entire time; normally I am a pretty jumpy person... so I am wondering, does piracatem have any cortisol- or adrenaline-reducing effects? It sure as hell seems that way.

2) I'm taking piracatem/hydergine right now and really like them. Do any of you notice a drop in creativity when you take ritalin/straterra? The reason I ask is that I took Paxil once and found it dumbed me down, a terrifying effect. I know these drugs are very different, but I know a lot of people who have taken both so this perhaps leads me to equate the two in my mind. I love nootropics as they only enhance my creativity. What effects does Strattera have?


Thanks for any info.

Actually, this experience of feeling calm in the middle of chaos is a pretty good indicator for ADHD. ADHDers often seek conflict and chaos in personal relationships in order to get the focusing effect of adrenaline.

[susmariosep]

Here comes Buddhism.


And that is what essentially Buddhism is all about, the resignation to and even acceptance of the status quo of the blind inevitable system of Buddhist speculation about the universe of existence: all is futility and frustration and/or surfeit and boredom, thereby ensuing peace for man but negatively in the abstention of desire instead of positively in the satisfaction of desire, and its acme in Nirvana, pure extinction: nonetheless made out by Buddhist mentors to be aspired after like heaven for Christians and paradise for Muslims.

To be simplistic, that is what religion is all about, the drive for ultimate peace.

So we have in Christianity the coming of the Prince of peace (princeps pacis), in Judaism* it's all about shalom, the same 'slom' with Islam. Shalom, Islam, correct me if I am wrong -- its all that business about 'lom and lam', all from the same Semitic root for peace, resignation, submission, surrender.

Except that in the monotheistic religions of Christianity and Islam, there is the supreme summit of peace in the possession of God in heaven or in paradise; but with Buddhism that absolute peace is to be attained in the extinction of existence in Nirvana from where no more rebirth is visited upon man (and why no longer? why else but that man and all being is extinguished).

Yet we still ask why are Buddhist elitists so enthused about their ultimate extinction into non-being whereby they will have complete and absolute peace, in a perverted kind of logic -- for what the heck when they are no longer around? what contorted logic, indeed. Because without admitting it they feel that Nirvana for all its explicit theorizing about quintessential extinction is felt by them or 'attitudinized' by them to be like the heaven of Christians and the paradise of the Muslims: I mean the manner of enthusiasm, though not the object of enthusiasm.

Contrive any most ridiculous of thought and behavior system, and you will always find some people who will be absolutely thrilled about it, as to commit self-departure to give it their unsurpassable testimony of devotion. And Buddhism does exhibit the patina of intellectual rationality by which it manages to attract those Western intellectual types who have come to a voguish tedium with their Christianity.


My own conjecture is that if religion will be with us for indefinite duration, the monotheistic religions of Christianity and Islam will always have more adherents than Buddhism, or any religion that does not present a logical rationality for the attainment of all the satisfaction of man's desires or appetites, the supreme summit of which is the possession of the Super Number One Author of everything in existence, God, however purely speculated He be.

In the choice between a speculated God and a speculated Nirvana, the man in the street in his time and again proven dependable wisdom will opt unfailingly for God, unless he had been conditioned by others or himself owing to the embrace of an absurd kind of logic where non-being is to be preferred to being.


Susma

*Judaism is the mother-in-law of Christiaitnity and it is the step-mother of Islam.

[scottl]

Susma,

You were doing so well...you made a valid and I thought rather interesting observation....and you had to go and spoil it...

[susmariosep]

Carrot and stick.


Scottl tells me:

Susma,
You were doing so well...you made a valid and I thought rather interesting observation....and you had to go and spoil it...

I enjoy the carrot but I can't figure out what exactly he wants me to not do or to undo what I have done.

Dear Scottl, suppose you take the time and efforts to pinpoint in clear terms what I spoil of the point I make which to you is valid and rather interesting in your assessment.

In this manner we two will benefit in concurring on things which as of now you are not happy with me about.

And that I think is good for peace and harmony among mankind starting with us two.

So, will you be specific and tell me, if only just two things whereby I go and spoil the valid and interesting observation I make -- and you agree with?

Otherwise I will have the impression that you have the habit of indeterminate speech, one intended by you to instill discomfort or doubt or apprehension or even fear in another person, but in a shotgun way of targeting, meaning you yourself don't know exactly what is troubling you about me, and you just fire a burst of shotgun pellets hoping to hit anything in my ideas which I am expected to be troubled about.

It is like you see someone painting a landscape and you tell him that he's making a valid and interesting point, in your assessment, but you also tell him that he goes and spoils that point.

Just two things, then, why I spoil what to your mind was valid and interesting.

Susma

[scottl]

Susma,

You talk...OK type...as if you have definitive knowledge of certain topics e.g. meditation, bhuddism, etc. That....bothers me...since I do not believe you have your facts remotely correct....but yes that is my problem, this is just a message board and I will just let your threads go from now on.

[eternaltraveler]

Suppose the death-inflicting experience were due from a fellow human acting with deliberate intent to seriously injure and even kill, would a person be still calmly nonchalant, without the influence of drugs?

I disagree with you susma. I can recall two similar experiences where I achieved this calm during peril where humans intended to do me direct harm.

Once was during a mugging attempt in Viet Nam, and another was during a mugging attempt in Moscow. In both instances exactly what transtigger is referring too occurred. I seemed to take a step back and direct my actions in a disconnected kind of way.

In the first I ended up unscathed, and in the second I only had a small scratch from a knife on my abdomen.

[scottl]

Hi Elrond.

"I only had a small scratch from a knife on my abdomen"

Eek. So mugging is not just gimme your wallet? Or you didn't want to give them your wallet/passport?

[wraith]

Same calm-thing happened to me when I was a teen. Attempted kidnapping, turned into a drive-by when I refused to get in the car. I thought I had a better chance of it if I stayed out of the car, and hoped that if he did try to shoot me in broad daylight, he'd be a poor shot. Well he did and he was actually a pretty good shot. Got just barely grazed on top of the shoulder blades. The weird thing is, I told my mom not to call the police. I just went on like nothing happened at all. I told her the sound was a car backfiring and I had a bad bug bite. Complete, utter denial, followed by oblivion.


Now if the stakes are somewhat differnet, say a job interview, I just turn into an anxious basket-case and talk compulsively.

~

Paxil helped me out a lot with depression, but it did leave me in a fog. Then it stopped working for me. I've no experience with ADD drugs.

[susmariosep]

Human speech is all reservations.


Before I forget, I am still wating for Scottl to tell me just two things he thinks I go on to spoil the valid and interesting point I make in my earlier posts here above.


There are two beefs I have at present in my thought endeavors, one is the dense writing of some philosophers and the other is the vagaries of Buddhism.

The first I believe is not warranted because its messages are in the final analysis of man in the street level, and the second is warranted but owing only because Buddhism starts off already from negations.

Let me explain:

In philosophy all that dense writing is about things already known by man in the street, only the philosophers who write densely like to make it appear to be original in their discovery and so profound and so arcane.

In the case of Buddhism, it begins from negations, and as in almost all negations the listener is supposed to react with amazement when in reality there is nothing said but a plea to deny what you know positively.

I gave this example in another thread about thinking of a finite God instead of an infinite one, namely: there is no such thing as a negative concept of something, for example infinity.

For instance, you tell a guy born without taste buds that taste is not like what he experiences of sight, hearing, touch, and smell; so he goes away thinking that he knows what is taste, when in fact he does not, for when if one day he should have his taste buds activated, he would not really know that he has taste -- unless and until he has compared notes with guys who have already been enjoying the sense of taste.

But in the case of Buddhism no one can claim to have arrived at Nirvana and to return to biological life to talk about it with others who also have done so.

Anyway, I started this post with the idea that I seem to have come to the insight that speech is essentially about reservations in its actual practice, with a lot of conjectures thrown into it. And for that small mercy we do manage to get enough communication effected to get along among ourselves.

That is why when we do communicate with computers we have to adopt a speech that is not fraught with reservations but always in definite declarative exposition and transmission.

For the computer cannot proceed wondering all over the nth span of the thought universe what we want to say if we do proceed to talk to it like we do to and with each other, meaning we who are possessed of similar needs, appetites, desires, and aspirations, experiences which computers don't and can't.

What I am trying to convey is that yes I don't know exactly what Buddhism and meditation is all about, but enough to know that it is for me hokum; because in the last analysis even the most accomplished of Buddhist practitioner and expositor cannot claim to know in all precision what it is all about as to earn the consensus of his fellow Buddhist enthusiasts. And why? Because Buddhism starts from negations, that's why.

So, don't take my messages in all seriousness, just consider them so many attempts to express my own take however uncertain, that is, full of reservations also.

In the meantime, I invite us all to a long hahahahahaha! and hehehehehehe! which for being intelligent we can be concordant about for having the same cerebrtal wavelength.

Susma

[scottl]

"Before I forget, I am still wating for Scottl to tell me just two things he thinks I go on to spoil the valid and interesting point I make in my earlier posts here above."

Susma,

I have answered your question above:


Susma,

You talk...OK type...as if you have definitive knowledge of certain topics e.g. meditation, bhuddism, etc. That....bothers me...since I do not believe you have your facts remotely correct.


You are like a colorblind man...arguing that they don't like the color scheme in some master's painting.

I do not mean to be offensive, but I don't think you really have a thorough grasp of some of the things you discuss. I'm talking ones where I have...some clue.

[enemy]

Susma, put that pipe down, man.

Its real, real bad for you.

[Pablo M]

BJKlein: I've not had such calming effect, but sorry to know of your near death experience.  Has this accidental event caused you to consider cryonics per chance?

Bruce, I would definitely think about cryonics in the future, but right now I just cannot afford even a life insurance policy. Instead I will spend my money on proven supplements and drugs.

[susmariosep]

Up in arms for Buddha!


I was right, when you talk critically of Buddhism, people will rise up to oppose you even vigorously and sometimes in very bad form -- not here, not yet.

That happened in Infidels Forum.

And yet when you talk about traditional Christianity, to bring out its also good contributions to Western society, they are all possessed of the critical mind.

Susma

[enemy]

Buddhists don't proselytize. Or advertise.

[Infernity]

dantecubit,

and drugs.

Smart drugs, nootropis I suppose... right?

Yours
~Infernity

[scottl]

Enemy,

Arguing with Susma is about as....productive as discussing heavy metal contamination or 1fast 400 with you know who.

[susmariosep]

Peace, man.


Dantecubit inquires about his equanimity from drugs.

Buddhism is relevant here because it teaches about equanimity from meditation and the whole of Buddhist doctrines about suffering and its root in desire.

Dantecubit's equanimity by way of drugs is science, Buddhist equanimity is religion.

Why did I go into some kind of critical annotations on Buddhism?

Well, why not, since it is there and it is relevant-able to the OP, in that sense that equanimity can be attained with drugs whereas in Buddhism you achieve it by meditation founded upon the doctrines of Buddhism on existence and suffering and the ultimate destiny of mankind, extinction.

And it is my submission that certainly we can do without Buddhism for those of us who aspire after peace and equanimity, namely, by drugs which are a faster and surer and more dependable means of attaining peace and equanimity, to save ourselves from being 'jumpy'. The downside is of course you could become dependent if you don't exercise control over drugs.

About Buddhists not proselytizing and not advertising, I am not so sure about that; how did it get to its Western enthusiasts otherwise?

And then as there is freedom of religion in the modern democratic society, so I don't think that proselytizing or not proselytizing and advertising or not advertising, is anyway of commendation or not to Buddhism or to any religion.

Just my cents in connection with the OP of Dantecubit.

Susma

[eternaltraveler]

Hi Elrond.

"I only had a small scratch from a knife on my abdomen"

Eek.  So mugging is not just gimme your wallet?  Or you didn't want to give them your wallet/passport?

I did not want to give them my wallet. So I did not. If they had a gun I would have complied. But in russia they only had bladed weapons. And actually a knife can be more of an impediment in combat than an asset if you don't know how to use it. They focus on the blade and forget about their other three limbs.

What was astonishing about that particular example is that it happened in the middle of the day on a busy sidewalk.