11 replies to this topic

[it'sLee]

Hey guys, first time poster, long-time lurker... I've started this thread to share my stack, welcome any feedback, and keep the community apprised of any interesting results/experiences.

Here's my current nootropic stack:

• 4.8g piracetem (ordered from Doc Simon - manufactured by Aliud in Germany), split in 2x doses, morning and mid-afternoon
• Jarrow Formula's CDP Choline - 500mg 2x daily, taken with the P (I'm thinking of sub'ing this for Alpha-GPC this week to compare the two)
• 600mg Sulbutiamine, ordered by JP Supplements in the UK
• Approx. 10-15g of Carlson's fish oil throughout the day, and after meals
• A cup of '4 strength' coffee for both the morning and afternoon dosing

I work out at the gym 6x per week, lifting weights 4x and take supps to enhance physical performance.

Current 'physical support' stack:

• 5g creatine mono, mixed with a small dose of NO powder... usually Black powder or NO Xplode
• 220g+ protein throughout the day - at least 120g in the form of whey isolate
• Multi-vit... usually Animal Pak or whatever I have on hand

Following the advice from 'Ten months of research condensed' thread (thanks Likud!), I've also ordered:

• Lion's mane

Diet-wise, I try and stay close to ~60% primal. I'm following Tim Ferris' slow-carb plan - few simple carbs, clean/organic sources of protein, and one day a week of total caloric annihilation.

My goal for this year is a total mental and physical make-over. I'm 30 years old. I'm involved in the creation of several Internet start-ups here in the UK, and both work output and performance demands to stay on target have doubled in the last few months, so I thought it was a good time to make some fundamental changes to my habits and behaviour patterns to stay on track.

Would welcome any feedback on anything I could be doing better. Otherwise, I'll post any profound observations/experiences here.

Thanks for having me!

[Frekke]

Hello!

I'm about to start my first nootropic stack soon, so i'm not experienced within this matter. But I was wondering how you experience your rather high intake of sulbutiamine. I was recommended to lower my sulbutiamine dose from 200 to 100 mg with the motivation that 200 mg could feel a bit strong for some people. Have you developed a strong resistance to this supplement? If so, how long have you been taking it?

Sorry for going a little of topic and borrowing your thread, I was just curious.

[it'sLee]

I'm new to the stack myself (started last week, with sulbutiamine added about 4 days ago), so I can't comment on any longer-term experiences.

However, I can say that since taking it, I've felt a little 'lighter' headed than usual... a little more spaced out. Its effects seem to mimic the slight buzz I get from caffeine. I'm not any foggier with it, just a little out-of-body.

My stack is largely the result of the 'Ten months of research condensed...' thread (can't post a link on here, although you'll easily find with a search). In it, the OP takes 1g in the morning with whole milk. I bought my in capsule form (300mg a hit), so I simply take two of those throughout the day.

If anyone has any further research on recommended dosage levels, I'm certainly open to taking on board that advice!

[Frekke]

Okey, I see. Yes, I'm well aware of the thread you're talking about. I accidently found that thread a couple of weeks ago and that's how I found out about nootropics actually. I was wondering about your fish oil intake too. I get something like 2.5-4 grams a day with my diet and I found that amount very helpful actually. I quit eating sugars (which I truly hope you have done your research on. Don't eat that poison) and started eating a lot of fish. The result were amazing in the sense that just changing your diet so little could do so much with your mental state. 10-15g sounds like A LOT actually. I've never tried eating that amount a day because i'm not interested in eating fish oil supplements, I happen to like fish so i think I get enough with my diet. Maybe it helps more, I don't know. But i'm interested in where you get those numbers from.

EDIT: From what I've read your choline intake is higher than needed. Most people start with no choline at all and only eat it if they get headaches. Some people even discovered that to much choline can actually induce headache. 1g a day sound like a lot. I've actually recently started a thread about this. Not many replies so far. But choline is very common in the average diet, depending on where you're from. I've read that Americans in general have a very low choline intake and often suffers from deficiencie. I don't know why. So if you're an American you might want to keep 500 mg a day. If you eat a lot of eggs, fish and meat you might not need any at all. I'm gonna recommend like a lot of other longecity members does and say that you might want to think about taking zero choline supplements and only eat it if you get headaches.

Edited by Frekke, 13 January 2013 - 03:17 PM.

[it'sLee]

I got 10-15g from the Paleo Solution, by Robb Wolf. He seemed to have some valid arguments on omega 3 deficiency and suggests a regimen of 10g+/daily for ~ a month to restore the 3:6 ratio. I'm paraphrasing - but the 10-15g level stuck out at me.

It's actually not that much when ingested over a day. 1 tbsp = 10g. Take a teaspoon per meal and that's the 15g right there.

[it'sLee]

EDIT: From what I've read your choline intake is higher than needed. Most people start with no choline at all and only eat it if they get headaches. Some people even discovered that to much choline can actually induce headache. 1g a day sound like a lot. I've actually recently started a thread about this. Not many replies so far. But choline is very common in the average diet, depending on where you're from. I've read that Americans in general have a very low choline intake and often suffers from deficiencie. I don't know why. So if you're an American you might want to keep 500 mg a day. If you eat a lot of eggs, fish and meat you might not need any at all. I'm gonna recommend like a lot of other longecity members does and say that you might want to think about taking zero choline supplements and only eat it if you get headaches.

Thanks. I read something about a 25% ratio of choline to piracetem, so that's what I started out at. This morning I ran out of CDP, so I took my first 1.2g piracetem dose without it. I got a headache an hour later, although that could have been purely coincidental/unrelated.

I'm from the UK, and eat a rich diet of eggs and meat. My protein intake is 200g+/daily. I have no idea if I have a choline surplus or deficiency (no idea how I'd even find that out), but again, much of these figures come from that one original thread. I'm sure some refinement/tweaking will be necessary for individual cases. I thought choline itself had a nootropic root, even without the piracetem?

I'll try lowering the dose and see what happens. Thanks for your thoughts!

[Frekke]

Yes, you're correct that choline has an effect on itself. There's a lot of studies that supports it. But only to a certain limit. That's why most people actually don't need an choline supplement because they get enough through their diet. But everyone has a unique brain chemistry. So even if you and me have an identical diet I might benefit from choline while you won't or vice versa. I would recommend you as you've already thought about to switch to AGPC instead. There you get choline and GAPA which should act as synergist if I've remember correctly. I'm myself going to supplement with AGPC, but only with doses around 200 mg a day. But i'm going to eat a lot of nootropics and that's why. I'm worried about getting choline deficiency because of the nootropics depleting effect of the choline. But mostly because I want to try out the GAPA as well.

EDIT: About your protein intake. I also work out at the gym, and according to the studies the recommended intake of protein per day is around 1.5-2 grams per kilograms of body weight. Are you really big or is there another reason to this huge amount of proteins?

Edited by Frekke, 13 January 2013 - 03:43 PM.

[it'sLee]

Sounds good re: the AGPC. Ordered some today - looking forward to reporting back the results!

EDIT: About your protein intake. I also work out at the gym, and according to the studies the recommended intake of protein per day is around 1.5-2 grams per kilograms of body weight. Are you really big or is there another reason to this huge amount of proteins?

I worked out with a personal trainer in Australia, and he consumed 1.5g of protein for every lb of bodyweight. Given that he's already achieved the exact physique I'm aiming for, I considered it a good starting point to emulate. I weigh 180lbs, so 1.5g is up to 270g/day in protein. Most anecdotal advice I've seen echoed in the weight training/bodybuilding forums seems to shoot for 1g+ per lb of bodyweight, which puts me in the 180-220/day range -- pretty much what I'm getting.

Beyond that, I have no hard evidence other than to say that when I eat lots of protein, I feel stronger and grow faster. Right now there doesn't seem to be any ill effect to that, but if that ever changes, I'd scale back accordingly.

[Frekke]

Okay. Well, you will probably not feel any ill effects from consuming that amount of protein. The protein that won't be used will be filtered out trough your kidneys. The only thing that I've ever heard, and this was from my teacher who tells some really "remarkable" storys sometimes, was that he (my teacher) ate around 300-400 grams everyday and it ended with him pissing blood because of the stress it put on his kidneys. But then again, I doubt it's true. Just a funny anecdote. I'm looking forward to reading your updates on how you feel this stack is effecting you! =)

Edited by Frekke, 13 January 2013 - 04:14 PM.

[it'sLee]

Ouch. If it gets to the point of passing blood, I'll definitely scale back!

Are you getting good results with your stack? Any other suggestions I may have missed?

Thanks for your help!

[Frekke]

I have yet not started my stack. I've ordered it and it should arrive sometime in the middle of next week. That is why I can only offer you advice trough what I have read and not through experience. You should keep this in mind.

It will be my first nootropic stack ever so i'm very excited. But I have some regrets, I've heard such good things about the noopept/aniracetam combo that I wished I would have ordered those instead. Depending on how this stack makes me feel, I will probably order the noopept next time. Also I will be ordering oxiracetam for hardcore studying/reading sessions since I've heard really great things about it when it comes to memory recall. But I will only use oxiracetam occasionally, and not for everyday use. My wallet is not capable of that, plus I don't want to risk building up any tolerance on it.

Did you notice what I wrote about sugar earlier? That's the only other recommendation I have. Treat it like you would treat leprosy.

Edited by Frekke, 13 January 2013 - 04:29 PM.

[it'sLee]

Pretty interested in adding noopept/aniracetam myself.

Sugar - for sure! It's not a component of the slow-carb diet I'm following, so at least 6 days of the week it's excluded by default.

I do have a 'go nuts' day on Saturday, where all bets are off (I routinely smash 5,000 - 7,000 calories that day) to accelerate body fat reduction. I can safely say on the Saturdays when I include sugar, my Sunday's are MUCH foggier (not to mention that my teeth hurt, and my skin itches). Sugar isn't kind and I don't advocate it either!