40 replies to this topic

[Jembe]

My mom has had breast cancer and at this point it has metastasized to the liver and skeleton. Physically she's quite OK so far but the doctors say the chemo (only pills for now, no radiation treatment) can only slow down the progression, not reverse it.

According to conventional medicine she probably has 5 ± 3 years to live. The doctors deny any validity of ketogenic diets, supplements etc. Is there a way I could show my mom and the doctors some actual evidence that they might work?

[Raphy]

There are studies (although not for breast cancer).

Plus tell her that it doesn't cost a dim to do a ketogenic diet, so why not try?

[Jembe]

I don't have a shot at convincing anyone without hard studies.

[1kgcoffee]

Sorry to hear this bud.
Was your mother ever on hormone replacement therapy?
Can you tell us a little more about the cancer? Is it her2+? brca? etc.. That will help us to suggest some approaches.

[renfr]

Liposomal vitamin C could help, look at this story, a guy whose doctors told he was going to die was saved firstly with IV C then taking daily 6 grams of liposomal vitamin C.

Also you could try liposomal glutathione which should just work as well.
Tell your mother to restrict her sugar intake, cancer likes sugar and it grows faster with high sugar intake.
The same goes with an acidic environment, you should tell your mother to try an alkaline diet.
Why not try afterall and see?
Chemotherapy is mostly worthless, it brings a lot of awful side effects, is generally poorly effective and once it ends the cancer starts growing again and you need to go on another session of chemotherapy, just look at what Chavez is enduring right now.

[1kgcoffee]

The right chemo for the right cancer can be very effective.

I'm not so sure about vitamin C or glutathione. How exactly would that work.

[Jembe]

Sorry to hear this bud.
Was your mother ever on hormone replacement therapy?
Can you tell us a little more about the cancer? Is it her2+? brca? etc.. That will help us to suggest some approaches.

She was on chemo + radio during the two bouts of breast cancer ('98 and '02), and has been taking an aromatase inhibitor for a long time but not anymore. She spent several years working in a dentist's office in the 70's, where she stood right by the patients every day as they did xray scans. Last summer they found a tumor in the liver, and cancer spots on the skeleton. Afaik they're both metastatic.

Don't have the kind of technical info you're asking for but I can try to find out.

[tham]

The longstanding "Cancer Knowledge" and numerous other cancer threads
here has all the info you need, why don't you go thru them ?

Secondly, why do you need to convince your mum with studies ? You're her
son, I'm sure she'll listen to whatever advice you give her, especially at this
late stage, when she is already starting to run out of time.

Thirdly, why do you even need to bother to convince her doctors, especially
in a serious, terminal disease like this when :

1. You know they can't really help your mum further, or rather, don't know
what else to do, other than the typical "cut, burn and poison".

2. They would not know anything about the countless other alternative treatment
options, including herbs, supplements and other drugs

2. Time is of essence, and you should be taking matters into your own hands
to save her life.

Don't you know that doctors, the allopathic mainstream MDs, MBBSes, FRCPs, etc,
are a generally stuckup, egoistic and obnoxious clan ? Do you think they will
take kindly to whatever that you, a layman, would present to them ? There
are exceptions of course, but the usual attitude is, they won't listen to you,
and won't like it either - either take my medicine or don't come here.

The doctors in Malaysia here are no exception. Here's what my own classmate,
a chest physician, had to say when I talked about resveratrol.

" Res - what ?? What's that ? You're going to kill yourself, reading and taking
nonsense from the internet. You think you're very smart, but you know nothing
other than researching Medline. Who wants to treat you if you think you know
everything ? "


My advice is, go for chemo, radiation and surgery if that is your/her choice,
but give her supplements, herbs and/or other drugs without the need to tell
her doctors.


Finally, as my office manager once mentioned :

" Doctors know the least. "

Edited by tham, 11 February 2013 - 09:27 AM.

[tham]

For a start - what kind of breast cancer does she have ?

Regardless, start her on :

1. Pterostilbene, blueberries and/or blueberry extracts.

2. 200 mg celecoxib, raising it to 600 mg overtime.

3. Go to your friendly Chinese herbal store round the corner, and ask
for these two herbs, which are dirt cheap in Malaysia.. They are very
common, all the counter staff in these stores know about them. They
typically come in capsules combining the two.

Scutellaria barbata. Chinese name Ban Zhi Lian (The characters won't display here.)
Oldenlandia diffusa, synonym Hedyotis diffusa. Chinese name, literally
"white flower snake tongue grass" )

If they give you the raw herbs, they will teach you how to boil them, which
is typically immerse about 30-60 grams of each in four to five bowls of water,
and boil for a few hours till it evaporates to one bowl.

Edited by tham, 11 February 2013 - 09:48 AM.

[niner]

Secondly, why do you need to convince your mum with studies ? You're her
son, I'm sure she'll listen to whatever advice you give her, especially at this
late stage, when she is already starting to run out of time.

There's a funny thing that goes on with parents. They have a hard time understanding that their children are not children any more, and might actually know something. I see this attitude in my in-laws, despite the fact that their daughter is a distinguished scientist. Just doesn't seem to carry any weight with them. In addition to that problem, most people know so little about medicine that they are at the mercy of their doctors. This causes them to put the doctors on a pedestal. It's frustrating. Most doctors are just engineers who aren't up on modern science, and have attitude problems as well.

[Mind]

The evidence on ketogenic diets is mostly common sense derived. Since cancer cells grow rapidly they use a lot of the most commonly available energy - from sugars. The idea is to starve the cancer of it's "favorite" food source. I would tend to think this strategy is not a "cure" but could halt the rapid progression of some cancers. Buying some time in today's environment of rapid technological progress means A LOT. If you can squeeze out an extra year or two, there should be new treatments coming on to the market. If I was diagnosed with cancer I would absolutely go ketogenic tomorrow as part of my anti-cancer strategy. One thing to be mindful of is that switching to a ketogenic diet will make a person feel different at first. It takes a week or so to get used to it. Some people say they get the "low carb" flu, because they don't get the energy boost that comes with eating massive amounts of carbs and sugar that are prevalent in the western diet.

[Jembe]

The chemo she's on is http://en.wikipedia....ki/Capecitabine

[tham]

Oldenlandia diffusa.

http://www.stuartxch...simanKalat.html



Oldenlandia diffusa extracts exert antiproliferative and apoptotic effects
on human breast cancer cells through ERα/Sp1-mediated p53 activation.

" Mechanistically, OD extracts enhance the tumor suppressor p53 expression
as a result of an increased binding of ERα/Sp1 complex to the p53 promoter
region. Finally, we isolated ursolic and oleanolic acids as the bioactive compounds
able to upregulate p53 expression and inhibit breast cancer cell growth. These acids
were greatly effective in reducing tamoxifen-resistant growth of a derivative
MCF-7 breast cancer cell line resistant to the antiestrogen treatment. "

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22213398



Ursolic acid from Oldenlandia diffusa induces apoptosis via activation
of caspases and phosphorylation of glycogen synthase kinase 3 beta in
SK-OV-3 ovarian cancer cells.

https://www.jstage.j...35_b110660/_pdf



Here's the bottle of Oldenlandia drink which I bought from the local supermart
the other day. From China. You can also see a "value pack" of garlic softgels made
by a local drug manufacturer in the background, which I bought at a nearby pharmacy
last night, 220-softgel bottle plus a smaller 100-softgel bottle, RM 19 (about $ 6).
Garlic is about the only supplement which you can buy cheaply here.

"Made from the extracted fragrance essence of oldenlandia with laoshan
water rich in elements and it is indeed a refreshing drink for summer. "

Cost : RM 1.65 (about 50 cents).

Attached Files

•  Oldenlandia.jpg   44.58KB   6 downloads
•  Refreshing.jpg   39.46KB   6 downloads
•  Price.jpg   29.93KB   5 downloads

Edited by tham, 13 February 2013 - 03:56 PM.

[triffid113]

See if this patented form of estrogen is available yet: Panzem (methylated estrogen) has been proven to cure hormonal cancers: http://www.lef.org/m...e-Cancer_01.htm

For what it's worth - veterinary medicine gives ketogenic diets to dogs with cancer all the time. IMHO it is not healthy and is merely intended to squeeze a few more months out of life.

Oldenlandia diffusa.

http://www.stuartxch...simanKalat.html



Oldenlandia diffusa extracts exert antiproliferative and apoptotic effects
on human breast cancer cells through ERα/Sp1-mediated p53 activation.

" Mechanistically, OD extracts enhance the tumor suppressor p53 expression
as a result of an increased binding of ERα/Sp1 complex to the p53 promoter
region. Finally, we isolated ursolic and oleanolic acids as the bioactive compounds
able to upregulate p53 expression and inhibit breast cancer cell growth. These acids
were greatly effective in reducing tamoxifen-resistant growth of a derivative
MCF-7 breast cancer cell line resistant to the antiestrogen treatment. "

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22213398



Ursolic acid from Oldenlandia diffusa induces apoptosis via activation
of caspases and phosphorylation of glycogen synthase kinase 3 beta in
SK-OV-3 ovarian cancer cells.

https://www.jstage.j...35_b110660/_pdf



Here's the bottle of Oldenlandia drink which I bought from the local supermart
the other day. From China. You can also see a "value pack" of garlic softgels made
by a local drug manufacturer in the background, which I bought at a nearby pharmacy
last night, 220-softgel bottle plus a smaller 100-softgel bottle, RM 19 (about $ 6).
Garlic is about the only supplement which you can buy cheaply here.

"Made from the extracted fragrance essence of oldenlandia with laoshan
water rich in elements and it is indeed a refreshing drink for summer. "

Cost : RM 1.65 (about 50 cents).

How does it taste? Will it give kombucha a run for its money? It sure is cheaper.
btw, no studies that I have ever seen, but kombucha is reputed to prevent cancer..it sure does lower elevated blood pressure. I can attest to that.

[tham]

It has a somewhat bland taste. Unfortunately, and I don't understand why, the manufaturer
has carbonated it, making it taste more like 7-up. The carbonation is mild, though.

Then again, carbonated drinks helps indigestion and constipation.

http://bastyrcenter....ntent/view/899/



Kombucha is extremely acidic. I gave it once to a nasopharyngeal cancer friend many
years ago, and it caused gastritis.



"Kwong Rong Brand Oldenlandia Water"

http://www.minshengh.../prod_1270.html


"Antelope Brand Oldenlandia Water "

http://www.minshengh.../prod_1269.html


Oldenlandia – The Cancer-Killing Weed

http://healingpastur...-cancer-killer/



Anticancer activities of Oldenlandia diffusa.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15273074

[Logic]

From
http://www.lef.org/p...t_cancer_16.htm
NB: that this is the 16th page of a good writeup you can print out for your mom.

• Apigenin: 20 – 50 mg daily.
• Astragalus: 2000 – 4000 mg daily.
• Blueberry: 900 – 1800 mg daily.
• Chrysin: 1000 – 2000 mg daily.
• Coffee: 400 mg, three times daily.
• Cruciferous vegetable extract: 1 – 2 capsules per day.
• Curcumin: 400 mg three times daily (as highly absorbable BCM-95™).
• Lightly caffeinated green tea extract: three 725 mg capsules, two times a day with meals. Use decaffeinated green tea extract if you are sensitive to caffeine or want to use a less-stimulating version with the evening dosage.
• CLA or CLA with guarana: 3000 – 4000 mg daily of CLA and about 300 mg of guarana, early in the day.
• Lignans: 75 – 125 mg daily.
• Melatonin: 3 – 50 mg at bedtime.
• Pomegranate: 280 – 375 mg daily of punicalagins.
• Powders (broccoli, cabbage, and other cruciferous vegetables that provide sulforaphane and other cancer-fighting plant extracts): 1 – 2 tbsp daily.
• PSK (from the mushroom Coriolus versicolor): 3 g daily.
• Pterostilbene: 1 – 3 mg daily.
• Quercetin: 1000 – 3000 mg daily.
• Se-methylselenocysteine: 200 – 400 mcg daily.
• Sulforaphane: 400 – 1600 mg daily of a broccoli extract.
• CoQ10: three 100 mg softgels in divided doses. Note the caution stated in this protocol.
• EPA/DHA with Sesame Lignans, 8 softgels daily, in divided doses. Take with nonfiber meals.
• Vitamin D3: 4000 – 6000 IU taken daily with monthly blood testing to monitor for toxicity. Reduce dosage at 6 months.
• Water-soluble vitamin A, 10 0000 – 30 0000 IU daily with monthly blood testing to monitor for toxicity. Reduce dosage at 6 months.
• Vitamin E: succinate (tocopheryl succinate), 1200 IU daily.
• Gamma tocopherol: 1 capsule daily.
• Vitamin C, 4000 – 1 2000 mg throughout the day.
• Gamma linolenic acid, 4 capsules of
• Whey protein concentrate-isolate: 30 – 60 g daily in divided doses.
• Calcium, magnesium, and bone-protecting nutrients: Take 5 capsules at bedtime.
• Vitamin K: 10 mg daily.
• Silicon: 6 mg daily.
• Multinutrient formula: daily.

I think it important to know that the bioavalibility of Curcumin is much improved by adding Turmeric to the above.
Also Piperine increases the bioavalibility of Curcumin, as well as having its anti cancer effect.
http://www.lef.org/n...-Stem-Cells.htm

Also see
http://www.longecity...post__p__513628

Edited by Logic, 21 March 2013 - 03:16 PM.

[theconomist]

I'd look into Selenium,and beta carotene since these were not suggested.
Especially selenium, it's very promising.

http://jnci.oxfordjo...pe2=tf_ipsecsha

I would also definitely get her on a keto diet or even better a 10 day fast; it could basically cure here if Thomas Seyfried is right, no one to my knowledge has tried it yet but if she's willing to do it it's definitely positive.
At least have her fast 48 hours before chemo sessions.

[Logic]

Red Palm Oil links:
http://www.longecity...post__p__544026

[aim1]

I am curious as to the dosage of Pterostilbene on the LEF list: 1-3 mg. It must be a typo, no?
Also, I would look to include Piperlongumine on that list.

[Jembe]

She doesn't wanna try anything. It's spread to the thorax and abdomen now, and she had to stay overnight to drain 1.3L of fluid buildup. She's still almost fully functional but I don't know how much time there's left.

[theconomist]

She doesn't wanna try anything. It's spread to the thorax and abdomen now, and she had to stay overnight to drain 1.3L of fluid buildup. She's still almost fully functional but I don't know how much time there's left.

There's nothing you can do if she doesn't want to try anything.
What have the doctors said? Since the diagnosis? Was the cancer already too advanced when they found it or?
Why did the chemo fail based on them?

[Jembe]

The skeleton tumors have been "under control" so far, and the liver one has been reduced. Obviously it still spread during treatment. They won't provide a prognosis, but said they may try another treatment for the newest spots.

[tham]

You mentioned your mum worked in a dentist's clinic during her younger years.

Has she had a root canal herself ?


The Relationship Between Root Canals and Cancer

http://www.new-cance...RootCanals.html



Can Root Canals Cause Breast Cancer ?

"100 % of the breast cancer patients involved in the study had root canals,
or other infections, on the same acupuncture meridian. "

http://naturaldentis...-breast-cancer/




Meridian Tooth Chart

http://naturaldentis...initas-dentist/

[Luminosity]

So sorry to hear about your mom.

There's really no magic vitamin you can give her once a day that will just make this go away. If she doesn't want to try anything there's not that much that can be done.

I would not do a ketogenic diet for this or in general. I don't think they are healthy. While refined or excess natural sugar can feed cancer, there are many lifegiving nutrients in foods with carbs in them. I would just avoid refined sugar and too much of foods with natural sugars. Forgoing the nutrients in all those carb-containing foods and overloading your body with fats and proteins is not healthy.

If your mom does want to try something, I think that a very good acupuncturist would be your best bet. Oldenlandia diffusa is a good herb for this ailment that is used in Chinese medicine. It might be prescribed by the acupuncturist. Below is my thread on Chinese medicine which tells how to find a good acupuncturist and healthy diet and lifestyle according to Chinese medicine. Just taking this herb on your own might not be enough but would not hurt. If your mom really wants to live I think she would have to get acupuncture and herbs prescribed and pay attention to the diet and lifestyle prescribed by Chinese medicine. It's not guaranteed to work but it's her best bet, if she wants to try anything, in my opinion.

http://www.longecity...inese-medicine/

My belief is that chemo and radiation does more harm that good, especially for certain people. It may stop the problem in one place, only to cause it to pop up somewhere else. The wisdom of doing more chemo has to be questioned.

There is also hospice care where they care for the patient but don't do any more chemo or radiation.

It's tough when you are into natural medicine but your loved one doesn't believe in it. I've seen this a lot. Sometimes all you can do is be there for them.

Here is a list of prayerlines if either of you are into prayer.

http://www.longecity...6-prayer-lines/

Edited by Luminosity, 26 May 2013 - 03:56 AM.

[Luminosity]

This article says, some cancer drugs trigger cancer to spread to bones:

http://drleonardcold...pread-to-bones/

[Jembe]

Interesting. She still functions more or less normally but she's started feeling pain in her skeleton and stomach, the confirmed metastasis locations. Still won't change her diet or lose weight.

Edit: And they're having her quit the Xeloda and going on a different, IV chemo. People in my family try to ridicule my diet and supps regime, but I'm the only one doing any reading so I'll stick to my guns.

Edited by Jembe, 01 June 2013 - 07:57 AM.

[Luminosity]

You could get a book about Chinese medicine and leave it around the house. I recommend two on my thread which I put a link to before. Asian Health Secrets by Letha Hadady is the best one. That way, if that is the way for her, she will take to it. Leave whatever reading material you think might be most helpful around like it's yours.

Edited by Luminosity, 02 June 2013 - 06:13 AM.

[Jembe]

She doesn't want to try anything but what the doctors prescribe. She still functions quite normally, but with increasing fatigue and fluid buildup around the stomach.

[DePaw]

Iodine works VERY well for breast cancer. Buy some Lugol's solution (strongest concentration you can find) and add it to drinking water and also paint it on the effected breast.

[DePaw]

Ketogenic diets have been studies in regards to cancer a lot and work effectively even in severe cancers.

Cancer cells don't have functioning mitochondria and thus can't burn fats or ketones for fuel, only glucose. Cancer cells have ltos of insulin receptors so they can draw in as much glucose as possible. Ketogenic diets reduce carbohydrates to the point of ketosis (this doesn't mean cutting them out completely, usually 30-50g is eaten a day which means plenty of veg can be eaten happily), and instead fats are used for fuel. When fats are burnt with a lack of carbohydrates ketones are generated and these function as glucose to many organs of the body such as the brain and heart. Any diet that reduces insulin and glucose has a terrific effect on cancer, starving the cancer cells while allowing free fuel to the body.

If you read German, this is by far the best book to read: www.amazon.de/Krebszellen-lieben-Zucker-Patienten-brauchen/dp/3927372900 Translated title means 'Cancer loves sugar, patients need fat'.