5 replies to this topic

[moleface]

Just as an experiment, I bit my two 200mg SAMe tablets in half earlier today. I ended up having a far more overt effect than I've ever experienced with this supplement, to the point where I felt overstimulated and shaky.

I know that this substance is supposedly destroyed by stomach acid, but I'm starting to wonder if maybe the enteric coating also provides a sort of "controlled release" effect that's supposed to minimize the potential for agitation or stimulation.

Anyone else have a similar experience with this stuff?

[jack black]

I noticed the same thing!

I also noticed that a cheap, no brand formulation of capsules in a bottle is more effective than expensive brand with individually packaged enterically coated tablets. There is something fishy here.

 

BTW, I learned how to search here.

 

 

Edited by jack black, 01 July 2016 - 06:19 PM.

[jack black]

Update:

I still had that bottle of cheap generic SAM-e capsules (no enteric coating!) from ebay opened a year ago (but kept in fridge). I took one last PM (I'm doing new experiments with boosting my stack in PM to prevent being a veggie on a couch at the end of my day).

I was more alert that PM, it didn't interfere with my sleep and I feel stimulated (and a bit wired) today, even now, 18hrs later. The dose was supposed to be 400mg.

Is this long life expected with SAMe?

I didn't think so:

 

Oral SAM achieves peak plasma concentrations three to five hours after ingestion of an enteric-coated tablet (400–1000 mg). The half-life is about 100 minutes.

https://en.wikipedia...osyl_methionine

 

what's going on? could it be a fake drug with some other stimulant instead? I remember that some "Thyroid support herbal" pills were discovered to be adulterated with large doses of T3, no wonder they worked so well.

 

any way to test it somehow at home?

Edited by jack black, 04 August 2017 - 04:59 PM.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

Yes it absolutely is necessary. Speaking from experience. You also need to store it refrigerated.

[ta5]

I know this thread is fairly old. I have similar questions: 

 

1. Does it need to be enteric-coated?

2. Does it need to be taken on an empty stomach?

3. Is it okay to chew the tablets?

 

In another SAM-e thread, Mishael posted this which can be found in this Huntington College of Health Sciences article:

The truth about enteric-coating and SAMe

 

First of all, just because SAMe is absorbed in the intestines doesn’t mean that it must be enteric-coated. After all, virtually all vitamins and minerals are absorbed in the intestines, and yet they don’t have to be enteric-coated in order to be absorbed. As a matter of fact, a Medline search did not indicate that enteric-coating was used in any study conducted on SAMe—and yet the SAMe was still able to be absorbed and utilized effectively enough to produce the myriad of positive results reported. Clearly this would not be possible if SAMe had to be enteric-coated. 

 

The real reason that some manufacturers’ enteric-coat SAMe is for stability. You see, SAMe is a very hydroscopic substance—that is, it has an affinity for water, and will readily break down with minimal exposure to moisture. As a matter of fact, SAMe is so hydroscopic that if you place a small amount of the raw material on your finger, the SAMe will turn into liquid within seconds. This creates a challenge for manufacturers who wish to produce supplements of SAMe. One method that can be used to stabilize SAMe is enteric-coating. This is not really the best method, however, for a couple of reasons. The first is that the enteric-coating is on the outside of the tablet, and if the tablet is damaged, it is no longer effective. The other reason is that the interpretation of federal manufacturing regulations allow enteric-coating to be used on drugs, not on dietary supplements.

 

If that's true, then I don't know why you couldn't take it with food or chew the tablets if you wanted to.

 

Despite the claim above that there were no studies that use enteric coated tablets, there are some. The above was written in 2009, so maybe it was true back then. This study says enteric coated tablets are absorbed 2.14-2.66% compared to IV. They didn't test uncoated tablets, but said, "We established that the bioavailability of SAMe administered as enteric-coated tablets is low, but higher than the value of 0.5% to 1.0% previously quoted for conventional formulations", with this reference, which references three other studies. So, this seems to be good evidence that enteric coating is a big improvement. 

 

This is what Swanson has to say on their blog site:

The directions for supplements that do not require food to be assimilated into the system generally state to take them on an empty stomach, as they won't have to process through the whole digestive system, but will absorb more quickly into the bloodstream. However, one of the side-effects of SAMe is nausea, and most people find that when they take it with food, they do not experience this unpleasant reaction. It may take longer for it to reach its destination, but the actual bioavailability of it is unchanged. If you are able to take it without stomach upset, though, feel free to take it on an empty stomach.

 

The directions for the 400 mg strength of Swanson Ultra SAMe omit the words “with food” and simply state take “with water.”

 

No references were cited.

 

Searching for answers to this question, over and over again, in forums and journals, pretty much everywhere else says to take the enteric-coated tablets on an empty stomach. But, I haven't yet found references for taking it on an empty stomach. Is it just a myth and assumption because that's most often how it works with other things are enteric-coated?

 

I started taking 2400mg (400mg x 3 x 2) per day. It was giving me a stomach ache when taking it on an empty stomach. I've started taking it with food and the stomach ache is gone.

 

You might wonder if it's still effective for me when I take it with food, or how it compares. Well, sadly, it's hard for me to tell. So far, it's effects are pretty subtle either way, except for the stomach ache when taking it on an empty stomach. I will need more time to experiment. 

 

[Dorian Grey]

SAM-e ain't cheap, so I've put some thought into how I take it. 

 

I've taken both coated and un-coated, but I always wash it down with at least 8oz of plain water, which I feel dilutes any acid and should expedite transit time through the stomach.  Even a coated tab may dissolve in the stomach if taken with just a swallow of water before bed, whereas an uncoated tab washed down with 8oz+ water on an empty stomach most likely will be through the stomach and into the intestine within a few minutes, perhaps before it even dissolves.  

 

Regarding the empty stomach issue...  I've read SAM-e can interact with protein meals, but a light carbohydrate meal probably wouldn't hurt.  SAM-e (s-adenosylmethionine) apparently is a form of methionine that doesn't require metabolic enhancement to a more physiologically active form.  I've read branched chain amino acids can interact with proteins (methionine one of the building blocks of protein), thus I assume you wouldn't want to take SAM-e with a protein meal or one containing one or more of the BCAA's.  

 

With the relatively short half life, I believe 200mg twice a day is better than the standard 400mg dose once a day (I'm too cheap to take 400mg twice a day!)

 

Don't know if I've got all my facts straight here, & sorry I don't have any references handy.  I'm interested in any info on this subject though, so correct me if I'm wrong.