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Does anyone want true immortality?

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#1 Artificiality

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 09:32 AM


Say you get the opportunity to become truly immortal, immortal as in: you would live for an infinite amount of time: beyond humanity, should it fall, beyond the universe, should it end; would you accept?
Personally, I would have to decline. Although I cannot see a specific limit to the amount of time I would like to live, to be forced to live on for an eternal amount of time could become torture. So much so that the even the allure of being able to witness the evolution of our technological advances and knowledge wouldn't be enough to persuade me. I want to live as long as I wish to continue living, and no longer than that.
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#2 DamnedOwl

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 12:01 PM

How about if you didn't know you were immortal?

I suppose you'd get an idea about it before long, but still, would this limitation on self-awareness sweeten the deal for you?

I always find it an interesting poser anyway, but I do think it's a extremely hard question to give an answer to because you'd have to first imagine yourself freed from all these huge limitations that our own mortality places on our attitude towards not only our own existence, but the way in which we live our lives.

In one sense, you could say that our take on life is defined by death i.e. 'non-life'. And it's our knowledge of non-life that makes our attitude to life what it is. Eliminate death and you eliminate what we currently take to be what life is all about.

I think immortal humans would be very different psychological beings from mortal humans, and if such a race of humans were to either somehow evolve or (to indulge imagination) just all of a sudden 'be', then I think I'd say I'd like to be a part of that.

But if I were the only one, then I'd really not be so sure at all. It could be amazing if my sense of existence were to evolve beyond this life-death dichotomy. But it's hard to answer the question as I am.
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#3 YOLF

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 04:33 PM

Hmm... I don't think I'd mind that. Forever is a long time to figure a way out and the one who figures it out in advance of his desires would not suffer for his desires later should he have them. Sure, I'll accept!
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#4 YOLF

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 04:46 PM

How about if you didn't know you were immortal?

I suppose you'd get an idea about it before long, but still, would this limitation on self-awareness sweeten the deal for you?

I always find it an interesting poser anyway, but I do think it's a extremely hard question to give an answer to because you'd have to first imagine yourself freed from all these huge limitations that our own mortality places on our attitude towards not only our own existence, but the way in which we live our lives.

In one sense, you could say that our take on life is defined by death i.e. 'non-life'. And it's our knowledge of non-life that makes our attitude to life what it is. Eliminate death and you eliminate what we currently take to be what life is all about.

I think immortal humans would be very different psychological beings from mortal humans, and if such a race of humans were to either somehow evolve or (to indulge imagination) just all of a sudden 'be', then I think I'd say I'd like to be a part of that.

But if I were the only one, then I'd really not be so sure at all. It could be amazing if my sense of existence were to evolve beyond this life-death dichotomy. But it's hard to answer the question as I am.


You can already be part of that. You don't have to live like your going to die, live like you have a chance to escape death! Never allow yourself to think that the cessation of your life is anything more than a choice be it yours or another's. It was someone's choice not to solve the cessation of life, and it was someone's opinion that indefinite youthful life is not worth it that has left you without it or not as close as we could be! Prepare Yourself! You may just live forever! Are you ready for it? Have you conditioned your mind for it? Don't waste any time, life under prospect of death is just living to die and smell up some place in the ground. Adopt a new way of thinking and if you happen to die, at least you lived for the future who are of like minds and will mourn your death as you would have it mourned. Don't forget cryonics either. Have you talked to Rudi Hoffman? Don't think it's out of your reach.
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#5 revenant

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 04:48 AM

I'd be all hanging out with the time lords. Seriously though, I'm sure there are some really great tasting baked goods to be sampled out there.

#6 Lister

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:50 PM

You can already be part of that. You don't have to live like your going to die, live like you have a chance to escape death! Never allow yourself to think that the cessation of your life is anything more than a choice be it yours or another's. It was someone's choice not to solve the cessation of life, and it was someone's opinion that indefinite youthful life is not worth it that has left you without it or not as close as we could be! Prepare Yourself! You may just live forever! Are you ready for it? Have you conditioned your mind for it? Don't waste any time, life under prospect of death is just living to die and smell up some place in the ground. Adopt a new way of thinking and if you happen to die, at least you lived for the future who are of like minds and will mourn your death as you would have it mourned. Don't forget cryonics either. Have you talked to Rudi Hoffman? Don't think it's out of your reach.


One thing that really struck me in your response cryonic is your use of the phase “Don’t waste any time”. I guess in the context of this thread “wasting time” isn’t really an issue considering obtaining permanent immortality or at least living like that is true means unlimited time. It’s only a waste of time if that time is a finite, limited supply.

I the situations of an optional limitless life I would probably take it without question. Even if at the time of the offer I was told I could never die ever, I would still take it. Forever is a long time and you can’t know what will happen.

For us to have an option for infinite life which we know with certainty will last through and beyond the known universe we would need to know all detail for everything in the universe; and that situation is so far beyond our understanding we cannot even come close to commenting on it.

Also living beyond the life of the universe; what’s outside of the universe? Too many unknowns to pass up the chance!

Knowing what I know now I would take it without hesitation.
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#7 YOLF

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 03:14 AM

You can already be part of that. You don't have to live like your going to die, live like you have a chance to escape death! Never allow yourself to think that the cessation of your life is anything more than a choice be it yours or another's. It was someone's choice not to solve the cessation of life, and it was someone's opinion that indefinite youthful life is not worth it that has left you without it or not as close as we could be! Prepare Yourself! You may just live forever! Are you ready for it? Have you conditioned your mind for it? Don't waste any time, life under prospect of death is just living to die and smell up some place in the ground. Adopt a new way of thinking and if you happen to die, at least you lived for the future who are of like minds and will mourn your death as you would have it mourned. Don't forget cryonics either. Have you talked to Rudi Hoffman? Don't think it's out of your reach.


One thing that really struck me in your response cryonic is your use of the phase “Don’t waste any time”. I guess in the context of this thread “wasting time” isn’t really an issue considering obtaining permanent immortality or at least living like that is true means unlimited time. It’s only a waste of time if that time is a finite, limited supply.

I the situations of an optional limitless life I would probably take it without question. Even if at the time of the offer I was told I could never die ever, I would still take it. Forever is a long time and you can’t know what will happen.

For us to have an option for infinite life which we know with certainty will last through and beyond the known universe we would need to know all detail for everything in the universe; and that situation is so far beyond our understanding we cannot even come close to commenting on it.

Also living beyond the life of the universe; what’s outside of the universe? Too many unknowns to pass up the chance!

Knowing what I know now I would take it without hesitation.


It's a waste of time if you could have been living a better a existence and have been building on a better experience. The prospect of death is still looming, if you haven't prepared yourself, you may still die without having your affairs in order for cryopreservation and you might take a nihilist stance in life that ends with you dieing before immortality is achieved and worse yet, you never got your cryonics plans finalized and funded.

The rest of your statement is good though.
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#8 Lister

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 04:32 AM

It's a waste of time if you could have been living a better a existence and have been building on a better experience. The prospect of death is still looming, if you haven't prepared yourself, you may still die without having your affairs in order for cryopreservation and you might take a nihilist stance in life that ends with you dieing before immortality is achieved and worse yet, you never got your cryonics plans finalized and funded.

The rest of your statement is good though.


"The prospect of death is still looming"

I live my life as though I have at least 1000 years to live. Within those 1000 years I plan on living all the lives I could possibly live according to what I know right now. That is to say, live as a doctor, a scientist, a blue collar worker, etc. I could likely cover almost all if not all “fields” of work within those 1000 years. Beyond that there’s different countries, cultures, hopefully worlds and beyond.

Given all of that “waste of time” isn’t such a narrow specific thing anymore is it? If I spent 10 years living my life in doubt/uncertainty only arriving upon an answer at the end of those 10 years can I really call still that a waste of time considering the 1000 years I have to live (minimum)? If I only had 80 years to live though that's 1/8th of my life gone and that IS a waste of time.

I guess my point is that “time” needs a dramatic redefinition when you’re talking about living a truly immortal life. And the prospects of death still looming are an issue but when looming is 1000 years+ down the road should that prospect be as much of an issue?

Under your philosophy cryonics; isn’t it the best to just live your live looking down a 1000 year+ road? Though I wouldn’t call being frozen for 1000 years living; that’s more of a pause button.
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#9 YOLF

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 05:13 AM

It seems like we're disconnecting. Any time wasted is life wasted. Our brains will have still built bad behaviors that become a liability to moving down a path of our own choosing. We will collect memories, which in hindsight may give us unbearable regrets. That's no way for an immortal to live, that' how an immortal begins to accept voluntary death. 10 years is 10 years regardless of how long we live. I suppose defeating aging will reduce the regrets of the past, but I imagine choosing to erase my mind and start again at the point where I find myself living with regrets and then sifting through my old data like files I forgot about on a hard drive and seeing what I wanted to keep and wanted to know without it being a part of my identity. It would be like looking at your baby pictures... you're in them, but you just can't remember it. The second you aren't living for your own ends or the ends of a cause of your choosing, you've wasted time and life, 10 years will still feel like 10 years and it's still 10 years you will have had to live through and been a fool.

In this case, time is being wasted because death and aging aren't gone yet and we're moving away from our goals and potentially missing out on immortality. So if we aren't signing up for cryonics or fighting aging and death, we're wasting time. A little rest and relaxation as you describe it is fine. We all need that. At issue here are things that hold you back from living the fullest immortality possible or living in ways that result in heavy regrets.
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#10 forever freedom

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 04:52 PM

I'd take the deal. But only if there were always fun/interesting things to do. I mean, if i survived the end of Earth and humanity, what would i do, float around in space for billions of years? I'd decline that. If i were to be alone forever then obviously the deal is off.

#11 Lister

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 08:37 PM

It seems like we're disconnecting. Any time wasted is life wasted. Our brains will have still built bad behaviors that become a liability to moving down a path of our own choosing. We will collect memories, which in hindsight may give us unbearable regrets. That's no way for an immortal to live, that' how an immortal begins to accept voluntary death. 10 years is 10 years regardless of how long we live. I suppose defeating aging will reduce the regrets of the past, but I imagine choosing to erase my mind and start again at the point where I find myself living with regrets and then sifting through my old data like files I forgot about on a hard drive and seeing what I wanted to keep and wanted to know without it being a part of my identity. It would be like looking at your baby pictures... you're in them, but you just can't remember it. The second you aren't living for your own ends or the ends of a cause of your choosing, you've wasted time and life, 10 years will still feel like 10 years and it's still 10 years you will have had to live through and been a fool.

In this case, time is being wasted because death and aging aren't gone yet and we're moving away from our goals and potentially missing out on immortality. So if we aren't signing up for cryonics or fighting aging and death, we're wasting time. A little rest and relaxation as you describe it is fine. We all need that. At issue here are things that hold you back from living the fullest immortality possible or living in ways that result in heavy regrets.


It seems like you’re looking at this whole immortality issue as though you yourself will only live for maximum of 1 natural human life. Fair enough as that is the case right now; presently you cannot live beyond one human life. Thus it’s reasonable for you to think that way.

I don’t think that way however. Perhaps I’m getting ahead of myself but I really cannot see myself being satisfied with a single life time. I can see no situation where that will be acceptable for me and for the past 15 years my mind has not changed. Thus I build in significantly more time into my planning. What you may see as being a waste of time I won’t because it takes a significantly larger event to push me there.

Additionally everything that happens to me I see as being a part of who I am presently and thus I regret nothing. I would say that regret/guilt/stress/pain are all pivotal parts of aging. So if you want to ensure you’re always doing something about aging then you should avoid those things (regret/guilt/stress/pain). I know I do.

My deeper point here though is you have to re-evaluate your perception of time to properly answer this threads question.

#12 YOLF

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 02:08 AM

So if someone lives a 1000 years post thaw, and gets stranded alone with only a simple AI on a space ship somewhere for 10 years, how disconnected does he become with the rest of human existence? There will be a great many things he missed out on and he'll probably need rehabilitation to get back on track. It doesn't matter that he's got forever to get caught up. Every minute and every second of life is important to the person living it regardless of how long they live. The only thing that will change that IMO is the pace at which we perceive the world. We may learn faster, but what about our feelings? Will we empathize with the world any slower or faster? Should we be reduced to a series of split second emotional transactions? 10 years will pass just as slow or just as fast any way you look at it. Time is a constant... and yes there are lots of physics arguements that could happen here, but to me, it's all about the perception of time. If we speed up the perception of time 10x and live to be 1000, have we really extended our lives or changed the metrics. If that is the case, there's no life extension in my eyes. It's magic to me. Why not extend our lives by changing the calendars? Perhaps I'm the high-tech, non-theist, non-aging, Amish immortal of the future :)

#13 MarkusSmith

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 05:59 PM

Yes, for 2 reasons:

- reading, specifically knowledge. An etternity to simply read, re-read, anaylze & if my immortal self were to outlast physical books in any existence-ending event (won't speculate), simply re-read in my head yet again (as well as observation, assuming existence reverts to 0 & is started again, I'd adore watching new civilizations, planets, galaxies, cultures, etc... develop)

- others & when/how to help them/not interfere. Saying absolutely nothing to, speaking out for or against, giving gifts to, smiling/frowning at, thinking about, etc... Immortality would be the opportunity to review my own actions &, hopefully, see that I have helped more than I have not

Edited by belinol-pr0ser, 02 June 2013 - 06:10 PM.


#14 A941

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 01:03 AM

Hopefully something will work, maybe not one of two but a third alternative... existence in a "timeless" space to avoid the negative outcomes of death/eternity.

#15 McGTak

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:14 AM

I'd take it. I'd rather spend an eternity with my own consciousness (ie. the universe has ended) than die and not have any consciousness at all.

That's something that I've always had trouble comprehending, what it would be like for my consciousness to cease. It scares me thinking about it...
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#16 YOLF

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:47 AM

To be blunt, it's probably very painful. You vital signs have stopped, but your body remains metabolic. So whatever pain you have continues and gets worse as your brains starts to rot until there's nothing left of it's connectome. But you can't express yourself, and your eyes begin to dim. Even if a connection is broken along the a line, all cells that remain connected will receive pain signals from others that are still connected. Billions of cells in your brain remain metabolic. At first you're probably feeling pain that increases in magnitude and then it eventually tapers off until no cells remain metabolic.

Think about those with neuropathic pain.

Think about it like a space ship... She's been hit and is beyond repair. She won't move anymore, but some of the lights are still on and some of the communications systems remain active. The ship was "legally" dead when the last plasma blast took a chunk out of engineering. But the systems inside continue to report errors and damage... That's what pain is.

Death should be avoided at all costs...

Euthanasia drugs might also perpetuate the pain.

That's just a thought and a response to people saying that you'll feel the pain of death forever if you're frozen. ;)

Pain does require metabolism though, so if there isn't metabolism, you wouldn't be able to feel.
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#17 empedocles

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 01:07 PM

The universe is a big place, eternity might not be long enough to see all there is to experience all there is.
To live past the death of the universe would be extremely novel, to experience the birth of another and be part of moulding it in my image (I would be the first genetic material within that new universe and could seed new life), this would be worth it... Being alone i.e no other humankind to interact with, i don't see this as a problem, are we not already alone in our own minds?, the social constructs (confines?) we aspire to be part of are transient , with eternity would come new ways to be, to exist.

So short answer .. yes i would take the deal and never look back.
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#18 Absent

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 09:17 PM

As some here have probably said, it depends on why I might be immortal. Am I physically indestructible? Do I heal fast? Simply not age? What if the earth blows up, do I survive? If so, do I feel pain such as being unable to breath but not dying? There are many questions left unanswered.

I would say being simply agelessness, with undeteriorating health, but still able to die in the right circumstance, would be acceptable. I would be able to end my life whenever I chose. My estimation is that killing yourself isn't any more or less painful than dying naturally, for at least a degree of control would be on your part.

Ultimately there are too many possible variables for people to answer this question. The quality of the immortality must be understood. If by immortality you meant you continually age physically, and so does your brain, and your health conditions keep getting worse, but your consciousness never leaves your body no matter what, then I can assume most people would decline that.
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#19 archangel

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 04:32 AM

I'd take it. I want to see where civilization goes.

I have still faith in the human race. I don't believe there is any end to the good that we can accomplish.

Until then, I'll settle for being immortal through ideal and purpose- but especially love. Love is the fabric of eternity.

--
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#20 seivtcho

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 06:25 AM

I definately want to be truly immortal. It is another question if I will be able to acheive it.


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#21 2525

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 03:18 PM

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it through not dying.

 
I think every of us should have the right to decide for themselves if they want immortality and being young forever.
Me and the people dear to me, close to me, they surely want it.
There are some bitter people, who are getting bored with their lives, and they try to make the lives of others miserable as well, by pointing out imagined "disadvantages" of living forever.
 
While, in reality, we as a human civilisation we would grow and improve and become better
much faster if we only have the choice to take it of living young forever
(in opposition/comparison to the millions of years slow growing of human species by "evolution"
and by killing each of their contributors at "evolution" all the men and women who
are not alive today anymore)

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#22 ceridwen

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 06:24 AM

Yolf you described what I live with everyday now. It's extremely painful but I'd still like to live for ever for the chance of a cure and some more fun before I die. Despite it all and even with a failing brain. I love life. I hope everyone else here gets to fulfill their ambitions and gets to live forever if they so desire



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#23 ceridwen

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 06:43 AM

I shall soon hit my pause button. I really don't want to but there is no choice. I too want to see what comes next for humanity. I feel everyone else is about to enter the most interesting time humanity has ever seen and I shall be amongst the last to die.


:mad:



#24 2525

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 12:14 PM

Hi ceridwen, I think that if each of us bring more friends or more people to fight the disease of aging an involuntary death,

things can soon be more brighter.

 

Have you read this ?

 

In June 2005 scientists at the University of Pittsburgh's Safar Center for Resuscitation Research announced they had managed to place dogs in suspended animation and bring them back to life, most of them without brain damage, by draining the blood out of the dogs' bodies and injecting a low temperature solution into their circulatory systems, which in turn keeps the bodies alive in stasis. After three hours of being clinically dead, the dogs' blood was returned to their circulatory systems, and the animals were revived by delivering an electric shock to their hearts. The heart started pumping the blood around the frozen body, and the dogs were brought back to life.[98]

On 20 January 2006, doctors from the Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston announced they had placed pigs in suspended animation with a similar technique. The pigs were anaesthetized and major blood loss was induced, along with simulated - via scalpel - severe injuries (e.g. a punctured aorta as might happen in a car accident or shooting). After the pigs lost about half their blood the remaining blood was replaced with a chilled saline solution. As the body temperature reached 10 °C (50 °F) the damaged blood vessel was repaired and the blood was returned. The method was tested 200 times with a 90% success rate.[99]

 

I would be interested to know more about how they continued these experiments, and what hapenned to the animals in the following years


Edited by 2525, 30 March 2015 - 12:16 PM.


#25 1004A

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 03:40 PM

You ask the question "does anyone want true immortality" but this in itself is a controversial issue. Most people look at it as a sad thing because they lose their family, the fear of being forever alone, not knowing what the future may hold, etc. Though the thought of immortality is truly quite interesting. Not because of the downfalls but rather to see and watch the world change. It will literally grow and expand in front of your eyes. Though in all honest the only way now to be truly immortal would be to be genetically changed before birth. It seems like it is all about the DNA sequence and how we manipulate that. This though is an issue because without the consent of that unborn child then aren't we being inhumane? So to ask in general if anyone wants to be immortal is not a question of possibility within the current population. This is a question for those who are still growing and for those yet to have been born. Its all about the time frame of when creation of immortality is possible.

 

*Don't take to heart: All personal opinion*



#26 Omnido

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 07:40 AM

Perhaps the definition itself requires a different approach or perspective.

Why not define "True Immortality" as:

"The length of time a sentient entity would wish to exist, exempt from any incidental fate or occurrence not of their own chosen acceptance, until such time as they would wish to exist no longer."



#27 shadowhawk

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 12:55 AM

That isn't immortality so you need a different word.  Also anything that is purely physical (material) dies.  So if you are only physical you don't have a choice.



#28 seivtcho

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 05:36 AM

Alright. Call it "never stop living" instead of immortality. The most important is the meaning, not how exactly you will say it.

 

Its not true that everything physical has no other choice but to die. It is a matter of the human brain to make everything possible. It will be possible in the (distant) future for the people who will live then.

 

Plus the topic is about the wish, not about the possibility of never stop living.


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#29 shadowhawk

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 09:46 PM

Alright. Call it "never stop living" instead of immortality. The most important is the meaning, not how exactly you will say it.

 

Its not true that everything physical has no other choice but to die. It is a matter of the human brain to make everything possible. It will be possible in the (distant) future for the people who will live then.

 

Plus the topic is about the wish, not about the possibility of never stop living.

Evidence?  None.  Everything purely physical is subject to the physical laws of nature and everything purely physical decays and becomes disorganized.  Are you saying mind is not physical? 



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#30 RGCheek

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 10:10 PM

I believe that our souls/minds are immortal already, but I dont know if I would want my body to be immortal.

 

I think eventually I would want to take that Final Promotion.


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