7 replies to this topic

[unknownsubject]

Hi,

im new to the forum. I became interested in supplements and would like to get some advice to get started.

I would like to start slowly and take max. 2-3 "must have" supplements a day. I though that a multivitamin + fish oil combination would be the best.

I searched the forum to find the "best" brands, but could not really find any which would dominate (AOR or Vimmortality maybe?).

I would be grateful for some suggestion for me to get started.

Gender: male
Age: 22
Weight: 65 kg
Height: 180 cm
Conditions: pollen allergy

Greetings

[Dorian Grey]

Hi unknownsubject, & welcome!

I don't wish to complicate matters for you... A high quality multi is better than trusting diet to fill all your needs, but I have a couple thoughts for you to ponder.

Some vitamins are best taken with meals, while others are better on an empty stomach. Vitamin C for instance will greatly increase absorption of dietary iron if taken with meals. This may be good for menstruating females, but males tend to accumulate excess iron as they age and over the long haul, taking a multi that includes C with meals may contribute to iron overload in males as they age. As most mulit's contain vitamin C and recommend taking them with meals, this can present a problem for males who don't wish to accumulate iron.

Vitamins like B-Complex and C are depleted quickly and are better taken in low doses twice a day rather than in large doses once a day, while oil soluble supplements need only be taken once per day.

If your multi contains minerals this can complicate matters as acid neutralizing minerals like calcium and magnesium can interfere with absorption of vitamins and minerals that require acidic conditions for proper absorption. Supplements that advertise "complete" mineral formulas also must include some minerals you may not need or want like iron and extra calcium.

Some vitamins are more suited to oil suspension than to dry formulation. Vitamin-E for instance. A multi tab will have E in dry form, whereas many feel a natural E with mixed tocopherols in oil suspension may be better absorbed and utilized. If you're going to take fish oil, substantial amounts of quality vitamin E will be required to keep this (fish oil) from oxidizing. It is also unwise to take fish oil if you drink (alcohol) as this will turn fish oil rancid in your liver and cause more problems than benefits.

Expensive isn't always better... I take a cheap low dose vitamin C and B-Complex twice a day on an empty stomach, and a quality oil based vitamin E with mixed tocopherols once a day with meals. I prefer to get vitamin D from moderate sunbathing during the summer and low dose supplementation during the winter. For minerals, low dose mag-citrate (200mg) and low dose yeast based selenium and zinc are what I feel are important to supplement. I let the trace minerals take care of themselves through diet. Deficiencies in trace minerals (other than selenium and zinc) are rare, and too much copper and perhaps a few others may do more harm than good.

Rather than spend a lot on an expensive multi, I like to put my big bucks into a quality curcumin supplement. PPC (polyenylphosphatidylcholine) is another supplement I don't mind spending a few extra dollars on. Livers love lecithin (phosphatidylcholine) and a happy liver is the foundation of good health.

Nutritional supplements can be very helpful to a lot of people but it's always best to do your homework and learn as much as you can about them before you dive in and lay your money down. I hope you get a few more helpful opinions in your post.

Best of Luck to you!

P.S. You might want to look into Quercetin for your pollen allergy.

Edited by synesthesia, 05 May 2013 - 05:10 AM.

[hippocampus]

@OP: what are your goals? I'd suggest you to use cron-o-meter for a month, then see what's missing and change your diet - and then supplement only what you can't get from diet even when you're very careful. Most often this means: omega-3, magnesium, zinc, folate, but it depends on your diet and lifestyle.
Also, lifestyle is very important!

[unknownsubject]

Thanks for the responses. I realize that for an optimal supplementation it takes an analysis of diet and a dozen of pills a day at careful chosen time points. However as a college student I neither have full control of my diet nor the time to work out and to follow extensive supplementation strategies. What I basically want to know are some basic most important supplements (and brands) which like > 90% of people here take daily. Omega-3 fatty acids are I believe an example such a supplement. I also do not want to experiment on myself, hence I am not interested "exotic" supplements such as Curcumin and Quercetin (but anyway thanks alot for your detailed recommendation, synesthesia!). If there is no such thing as general supplement recommendation for basically everyone I guess I should back off on this idea.

[Dorian Grey]

Thanks for the kind words US, & sorry if my input was a bit over the top... An inexpensive daily multi may be an easy-out and good plan if you take it with a low iron/light meal like breakfast. I would avoid the ones with minerals though as minerals are notorious for irritating the stomach. Another easy option may be to simply supplement water solubles like B-Complex and C as these tend to be transiently deficient most often.

As you mention you are in college, a note of caution on the fish oil if you consume alcohol as some college students are known to do... Fish oil and alcohol is a bad mix!

Look Here: http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/7938050


Fish oil, alcohol, and liver pathology:

"The liver pathology score progressively worsened in rats fed alcohol, both in combination with fish oil and corn oil, but the severity of inflammation and focal fibrosis was greater in the ethanol fish oil fed rats"

"The data suggest that fish oil diet, like corn oil, supports ethanol-induced liver injury"

And Here: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11602676


Dietary saturated fatty acids reverse inflammatory and fibrotic changes in rat liver despite continued ethanol administration.


"The most severe inflammation and fibrosis were detected in groups 1 and 2, as were the highest levels of endotoxin, lipid peroxidation, activation of NF-kappaB, and mRNAs for Cox-2 and TNF-alpha." (Rats in groups 1 and 2 were fed a fish oil-ethanol diet)

---------------------------------

If you don't drink, fish oil may be a good thing, but I believe it may be very unwise for those who celebrate youth with alcohol.

[unknownsubject]

Thanks for your response.

I dont drink alcohol at all, so this wont be a problem. I was thinking to get AOR Multi Basics 3. I seems not to have iron. But I am still unsure which Omega-3 brand to get.

[Dorian Grey]

The AOR Basic seems like a good choice.

I won't wade into the brand of fish oil issue as I'm not too knowledgeable on the various brands, but a few things to consider will be: Freshness. Spoilage is a major problem with fish oils so finding fresh product in small quantity bottles would be wise. You don't want something that's been sitting on a shelf in a hot warehouse for a year and a half before it ships to you. Most supplements expiere 2 years after their manufacture, regardless of how stable the product actually is. Look for something with 12 to 18 months left before it expires. Buying from a store that moves a lot of product (rather than an online warehouse) might be a good idea.

You might also avoid buying large quantity jumbo sized bottles. Once you crack the seal and oxygen gets to the product, I would want to use it within 30 days.

Many fish oils are processed with small amounts of vitamin-E to prevent spoilage, but this is not enough to prevent oxidation in your body. The AOR multi also doesn't have enough E to insure this does not occur. I'd add an additional 400 to 800 IU of natural E per day to any brand of fish oil I was taking.

If you start a new thread on: Fish Oil, What Brand? I'm sure you'd get some input on which brands are best.

[Ukko]

Well, start of LEF's two per day multivitamins. Has excellent forms of even selenium, zinc and chromium in it. Normally I would suggest additional lipoic acid, but based in your weight and height, you have no need to lose weight. Magnesium is always a good idea, hard to get from food and only present in homeophatic amounts in multivitamins. So, take like 400mg of magnesium glycinate daily. For the third one, well, gets, harder without knowing your goals. For studying, try 3x300mg of phosphatidylserine for a few weeks then cut it down to 3x100mg daily. Great, safe efficient brain booster. If you want to reduce anxiety instead, try L-theanine at 3x100mg daily. For general health, reconsider Curcumin. One of the safest most broadly researched things to take with a phenomenal range of health benefits. Or, at your age, ethanol thrice a week is pretty compelling too
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