7 replies to this topic

[Raptor87]

I am starting to believe that long term use of SRRI's might cause adrenal insufficiency through constant agitation on our glands (even when we sleep) causing long term downregulation which might be hard to treat. Sideeffects would be constant brainfog, fatigue, slow blowelmovement, muscular- tissue loss or weakness, depression, anxiety and the list goes on..

Am I just paranoid, what is current science saying about this?

[chung_pao]

Shouldn't SSRIs cause the opposite of adrenal stimulation? Serotonin opposes stress-hormones.
I think adrenal insufficiency is more likely caused by excessive stimulation by excitation, i.e. caffeine and catecholamine-reuptake inhibitors (wellbutrin, modafinil, ritalin...).

If you're experiencing fatigue or weakness from SSRI's, I've been there. It's caused by a neurotransmitter imbalance.
Increasing any one NT (acetylcholine, dopamine, serotonin) will cause others to decrease. In the case of SSRI's, this leads to decreased dopamine levels, which cause the zombification commonly reported by users.
In the case of anti-depressants that work by increasing dopamine and norepinephrine, a decrease in serotonin will result.
Another example is acetylcholine overload, which manifests in depressive symptoms.

All long-lasting modulators of neurotransmitters will have side-effects. SSRI's included. But I think adrenal insufficiency is very unlikely.
Fatigue, boredom and anhedonia are most likely side-effects of SSRI's.

Edited by chung_pao, 19 May 2013 - 02:16 PM.

[BioFreak]

SSRI's increase serotonin. High serotonin levels surpress dopamine levels. Dopamine is the precursor for noradrenaline and adrenaline, so they are very likely affected too. In fact a LOT of SSRI side effects come from the suppression of dopamine(impotence, anyone?) and possibly other catecholamines further down the chain.

If you take ssris better make sure you support your catecholamines. look at www.neuroassist.com for their studies on the subject. They use 5-htp instead of ssris, but for the question of increasing catecholamines, its the same thing if you use 5-htp or a ssri.

Edited by BioFreak, 19 May 2013 - 09:49 PM.

[Raptor87]

Well if you are depressed then your hormonal balance is already off in many cases. Norepinephrine being in the low scale already, wouldn't that just ruin the homeostasis even more!? It could work temporary, but constantly agitating a system that can't regulate itself coul'd make things worse. Our biology should be autonomic and repair itself over time. But I think that srris could deplete our biological repair. Of course this is mere speculation! But I am concerned because I haven't anyone investigating these things. also I have read numerous reports of venlafaxine ruining peoples sleep. My sleep has always been messed up, but I always woke up soaking wet when I was on effexor. It's like my adrenals couldn't regulate itself. That changed when I stopped taking the pill.

[chung_pao]

IMO, the best cure for depression, is not a pharmaceutical approach. It'll only do damage and force you to jump between one ineffective drug to the next. They all have side-effects, and they all lose effect if used constantly.

The best approach is setting high goals and finding purpose in life. For me, constant pursuit of excitement, has been the solution.
I set high goals and implement nootropics and enhancement of various kinds to achieve those goals.
Priming your body to produce more "happy-chemicals" is the only way you can go about resolving depression.
And this can only be done the natural route. You can use drugs to enhance certain functions temporarily, like concentration and motivation, but in the end the most important elements are the innate motivators: Family & socializing and mentors, healthy living through diet and exercise, and pursuit of high goals and purpose.
Anyone who goes the pure biochemical route to "happiness in a pill" will eventually realize that the pills don't solve anything.
I've jumped between enough different drugs to know that. My current interest in nootropics is just a hobby, and something that helps me achieve academic and professional goals.

Btw, low testosterone can also cause depression.
Two things run in my family: hypogonadism and depression.
For me, curing hypogonadism cured depression. Just saying.
What has helped me the most has been fixing my diet, body-fat level and setting athletic goals. Mostly related to strength training.

Edited by chung_pao, 22 May 2013 - 08:18 PM.

[nowayout]

SNRIs, possibly, because they are noradrenergic. Same goes for noradrenergic atypical ADs like Wellbutrin and Remeron.

It is always surprising to me that SNRIs and atypical ADs are so often prescribed to people with anxiety, whose noradrenergic tone is presumably in many cases already too high. Noradrenaline (norepinephrine) is an anxiety/panic hormone.

Edited by nowayout, 22 May 2013 - 08:29 PM.

[Raptor87]

SNRIs, possibly, because they are noradrenergic. Same goes for noradrenergic atypical ADs like Wellbutrin and Remeron.

It is always surprising to me that SNRIs and atypical ADs are so often prescribed to people with anxiety, whose noradrenergic tone is presumably in many cases already too high. Noradrenaline (norepinephrine) is an anxiety/panic hormone.

It's epinephrine that you are thinking of, not norepinephrine. Still I wonder how these pills are supposed to be regulated in the body. I mean surely our bodies must regulate our adrenal levels when we go to sleep. I am skeptical of these pills and their long term effect.

IMO, the best cure for depression, is not a pharmaceutical approach. It'll only do damage and force you to jump between one ineffective drug to the next. They all have side-effects, and they all lose effect if used constantly.

The best approach is setting high goals and finding purpose in life. For me, constant pursuit of excitement, has been the solution.
I set high goals and implement nootropics and enhancement of various kinds to achieve those goals.
Priming your body to produce more "happy-chemicals" is the only way you can go about resolving depression.
And this can only be done the natural route. You can use drugs to enhance certain functions temporarily, like concentration and motivation, but in the end the most important elements are the innate motivators: Family & socializing and mentors, healthy living through diet and exercise, and pursuit of high goals and purpose.
Anyone who goes the pure biochemical route to "happiness in a pill" will eventually realize that the pills don't solve anything.
I've jumped between enough different drugs to know that. My current interest in nootropics is just a hobby, and something that helps me achieve academic and professional goals.

Btw, low testosterone can also cause depression.
Two things run in my family: hypogonadism and depression.
For me, curing hypogonadism cured depression. Just saying.
What has helped me the most has been fixing my diet, body-fat level and setting athletic goals. Mostly related to strength training.

Well socializing isn't exactly easy for everyone. Hypogonadism, what were the effects? How did you get the diagnosis and what treatment did you receive?

[nowayout]

SNRIs, possibly, because they are noradrenergic. Same goes for noradrenergic atypical ADs like Wellbutrin and Remeron.

It is always surprising to me that SNRIs and atypical ADs are so often prescribed to people with anxiety, whose noradrenergic tone is presumably in many cases already too high. Noradrenaline (norepinephrine) is an anxiety/panic hormone.

It's epinephrine that you are thinking of, not norepinephrine.

No, I am thnking of norepinephrine.