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Evidence That Humans Ate Grains 105,000 Years Ago.

mistere diet grains starch paleo low-carb vegan

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#1 misterE

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 04:36 PM


Science. 2009 Dec 18;326(5960):1680-3.
Mozambican grass seed consumption during the Middle Stone Age.
Mercader J.
Abstract
The role of starchy plants in early hominin diets and when the culinary processing of starches began have been difficult to track archaeologically. Seed collecting is conventionally perceived to have been an irrelevant activity among the Pleistocene foragers of southern Africa, on the grounds of both technological difficulty in the processing of grains and the belief that roots, fruits, and nuts, not cereals, were the basis for subsistence for the past 100,000 years and further back in time. A large assemblage of starch granules has been retrieved from the surfaces of Middle Stone Age stone tools from Mozambique, showing that early Homo sapiens relied on grass seeds starting at least 105,000 years ago, including those of sorghum grasses.
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#2 zorba990

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 05:44 PM

I eat seeds. They are nice and high in fats. I'm especially fond of sprouted pumpkin and sesame seeds. Go seeds!
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#3 nowayout

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 06:12 PM

I'm sre early humans ate everything edible they could lay their hands on, including grains, organ meats, insects, and carrion.

I wonder how many of the paleo people are eating the organ meats and insects they should be eating to be truly paleo.
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#4 alecnevsky

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 06:42 PM

The question is whether these grains or organ meats make better hominids [with better brains.] No one doubts people had and have to eat shit once in a while to survive. #mcdonald's

Edited by alecnevsky, 25 May 2013 - 06:56 PM.


#5 nowayout

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 06:50 PM

The question is whether these grains or organ meats make better hominids. No one doubts people had and have to eat shit once in a while to survive. #mcdonald's


Organ meats without a doubt. They are high in essential nutrients.

#6 alecnevsky

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 07:00 PM

Yeah liver is absolutely amazing in terms of nutrients. It's strange though, 6 weeks after me and a few friends got into LCHF, one of the dudes reported higher cholesterol markers but lower weight and fat %. He was eating liver pate literally every day.

Edited by alecnevsky, 25 May 2013 - 07:02 PM.


#7 Logic

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 02:08 AM

Off course they did. They ate anything and everything 105 000 years ago.

The difference is that the energy to pick it was only slightly less than it took to pick it.
Concentrated nutrients came in the form of whatever meat you could get your hands on.

#8 misterE

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 05:33 AM


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#9 alecnevsky

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 05:49 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0PF5R0ywp4



That's a very informative video: he pretty much says the increase in brain size was most dramatically seen 2 mil years ago and there is concrete evidence of meat consumption but not enough to correlate with the increase., and, so it's more likely then that starches had a greater effect on brain size. What do people think of this ?

My intuition: just b/c there isn't evidence to prove one correlation, does not suggest another positive correlation. But, since in this case there are likely only 2 variables-- plants and animals-- lack of evidence for one could act in support of the other. Although I think there may be more to the question than just 2 forms of food resources of plants and animals.

Edited by alecnevsky, 28 May 2013 - 05:53 AM.


#10 alecnevsky

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 10:53 AM


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#11 misterE

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 11:00 PM

the increase in brain size was most dramatically seen 2 mil years ago and there is concrete evidence of meat consumption but not enough to correlate with the increase., and, so it's more likely then that starches had a greater effect on brain size. What do people think of this ?








Makes perfect sense; the human brain runs exclusively on glucose. The human brain absolutely requires glucose, if you don’t consume glucose… say you go on a low-carb diet or you are starving, the human-body will actually convert amino-acids from your muscles into glucose for the brain to use as fuel. Undergoing lipolysis also provides some glucose for the brain (from the conversion of glycerol into glucose), but gluconeogenesis (the conversion of protein into carbohydrate) is the main route the body takes when deprived of starch. Excessive gluconeogenesis is not healthy because it decreases your muscle-mass and causes elevated blood-sugar. Diabetics who are ether insulin-deficient or insulin-resistant are usually undergoing both lipolysis and gluconeogenesis… and so are people following low-carb diets.

Edited by misterE, 28 May 2013 - 11:02 PM.

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#12 zorba990

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 12:49 AM

carbs are pro-aging (glycation) . Athletes carbo load as a pre competition strategy preceeded by a strict depletion. Carbs in excess of muscle glycogen replenishment are not needed for everyday general fitness pursuits IMHO. I can't imagine eating more than 200g carbs on a binging day and 100 seems plenty for 5 mile runs and 1hr weight workouts. Why eat extra? And strarches are generally low nutrient foods, I'd rather eat berries , cocoa, apples, yogurt, and other high value foods than waste calories on white starch.

Low carb puts the igf right where you want it protecting muscle mass. http://www.ergo-log....uttraining.html
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#13 misterE

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 03:28 AM

carbs are pro-aging (glycation) .







You could say that about any of the macronutrients. Carbohyrate is the logical choice as a metabolic fuel source. Putting the wrong type of fuel in the body (fats, grease, oils, simple-sugars, animal-proteins) is what causes metabolic-syndrome.











Starches are generally low nutrient foods



Not true, many studies show that whole-grains and beans have just as much (and sometimes more) antioxidants and phytonutrients than fruits and vegetables [1-2].








Low carb puts the igf right where you want it protecting muscle mass







Insulin is needed for IGF-1 synthesis. Human-growth-hormone (HGH) is converted into IGF-1, but the FFA’s released during lipolysis inhibits this conversion, thus if insulin is secreted, lipolysis is inhibited, FFA levels decrease in the blood and HGH is converted into IGF-1. People with diabetes have high levels of HGH and low levels of IGF-1 [3]. The reason is because they are either insulin deficient or insulin-resistant, thus they undergo lipolysis all day long and the surge of FFA’s released makes a barrier that blocks the conversion of HGH into IGF-1.

With low levels of IGF-1 you are predisposed to having atherosclerosis, diabetes, osteoporosis, alzheimer’s and all sorts of aliments, basically your body goes into a catabolic state where tissue is being broken down and unable to be rebuild. Insulin is the key that prevents all these diseases.



If you are sensitive to it, spiking the shit out of your insulin three times a day will give you great metabolic effects and body composition, but when you do this, you have to make sure that fat and fructose intakes are extremely low. Eating baked or boiled potatoes causes a massive amount of insulin to be secreted, as does beans and bread [4]. These foods are extremely nourishing to the body, first because the body gets the glucose that it wants and second is that the surge of insulin that is released shuts down the stress response in the body, cortisol and FFA’s are lowered, HGH is converted into IGF-1 and the body begins to repair, it builds muscle, it grows blood-vessels, it allows our body to store energy instead of use it, it generates new cells, and it creates hormones that stimulate sex-drive like androgens.

Insulin is wonderful, unfortunately most people eating the rich high-fat/high-sugar Western-diet are missing out on the benefits of insulin because they are resistant to its effects, due to an accumulation of ectopic-fat and high blood levels of FFA's and triglycerides.







[1] J Am Coll Nutr. 2000 Jun;19(3 Suppl):312S-319S. Antioxidant content of whole grain breakfast cereals, fruits and vegetables. Miller HE, Rigelhof F, Marquart L.



[2] J Agric Food Chem. 2002 Oct 9;50(21):6182-7. Antioxidant activity of grains. Adom KK, Liu RH.

[3] J Endocrinol. 1988 Sep;118(3):353-64. The role of growth hormone in diabetes mellitus. Holly JM, Amiel SA, Sandhu RR.



[4]Am J Clin Nutr. 1997 Nov;66(5):1264-76. An insulin index of foods: the insulin demand generated by 1000-kJ portions of common foods. Holt SH, Miller JC, Petocz P.
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#14 eddielang

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 09:40 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0PF5R0ywp4



That's a very informative video: he pretty much says the increase in brain size was most dramatically seen 2 mil years ago and there is concrete evidence of meat consumption but not enough to correlate with the increase., and, so it's more likely then that starches had a greater effect on brain size. What do people think of this ?

My intuition: just b/c there isn't evidence to prove one correlation, does not suggest another positive correlation. But, since in this case there are likely only 2 variables-- plants and animals-- lack of evidence for one could act in support of the other. Although I think there may be more to the question than just 2 forms of food resources of plants and animals.


It takes seafood, not grains to grow a bigger better brain. We can't get enough EPA/DHA from ruminants or seeds.

It was when a mini ice age (MIS-6) forced us to the sea for nutrition that we became 'human' brained. Also explains the lack of missing links.... And perhaps our lack of body hair.... And maybe our bipedalism.

aquatic ape, but not in the way you think...

https://www.google.c....47008514,d.dmg


Of course non of this matters unless you want to find out why we are relatively broken now. No use in being a reenactor if it's not aligned with your personal goals. Calories are easy, nutrients, not so much.

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#15 zorba990

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 02:55 PM

With low levels of IGF-1 you are predisposed to having atherosclerosis, diabetes, osteoporosis, alzheimer’s and all sorts of aliments, basically your body goes into a catabolic state where tissue is being broken down and unable to be rebuild. Insulin is the key that prevents all these diseases.


The IGF-1 has to be in the right place for best results. Low carb puts in in the muscles where you want it:
http://www.ergo-log....log....html otherwise you are fueling the growth of things that may cause you problems.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19470786
http://news.harvard....igf1.story.html
Last week, the researchers announced that, in a six-year study of 32,826 nurses, those with the highest (blood) levels of IGF-1 had a two-and- a-half times greater risk of colorectal cancer

If you are sensitive to it, spiking the shit out of your insulin three times a day will give you great metabolic effects and body composition, but when you do this, you have to make sure that fat and fructose intakes are extremely low. Eating baked or boiled potatoes causes a massive amount of insulin to be secreted, as does beans and bread


LOL. Tell this to bodybuilders who are trying to lean out for competition....let's just say experimentally untrue for most humans.
Bread is junk food. Two slices of bread have more calories than a king size snickers bar. Baked white potatos are low nutrient. Grains are pro-flammatory and undigestible to most people. Beans and legumes might be better.
Eating low fat on top of that and your joints and skin will dry up and you will look wrinkled and dry like most of the high carb diet pushers. For best weight maintenece low carb is the winner:
http://jama.jamanetw...rticleid=205916



http://paleohacks.co...t#axzz1dPHDfndu


What you really want is to eat in a way that balances both Insulin and Glucagon. This is not high carb (insulin spikes).
http://www.healingna...les/foods35.php

Edited by zorba990, 29 May 2013 - 03:45 PM.


#16 maxwatt

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 12:36 PM

Brain size in primates (and most mammals) correlates directly with the size of the social group the creatures live in. I would posit increase in human brain size occurred as the east African forests were replaced by grassland two million years ago. forcing a tree-dwelling ape to live in open savannah. Larger troop size became a defense against predators, and an aid to the group finding food from any source under changing conditions. Larger brains went along for the ride. Prior to that our ancestors likely subsisted on a diet of largely fruit and leaves, with occasional opportunistic animal protein thrown in. (including insects) Much as Bonobo chimps do now, in family groups of up to 20..

FWIW, correlating primate brain size with social group size across primate species, would indicate the human brain is the right size to deal with a social group of about 400 individuals.

But this has little to do with what is the right diet now. This thread seems to be ignoring the genetic differences in individuals. Some genetic types are immune to the negative effects of high saturated fats. Others do OK with a lit of mono-unsaturates like olive oil. Others, perhaps most, do best if the percent of fat from any source in the diet is under 30%. One thing that is clear is that too much sugar, especially fructose and sucrose, is bad for everyone. Though it wouldn't surprise me if it turns out there are mutants among us how can do well on burgers, fries and cola.
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