25 replies to this topic

[Tom_]

I would also be interested in the MOA, side effects, clinical/suggested clinical uses, other effects (including side effects) of proposed racetams, feel free to include noopept.

Thanks

[Captainhat]

So, I'm not well versed in the science or literature, but I can tell you anecdotally that Oxiracetam and Phenylpiracetan are the most stimulating for me. Oxiracetam specifically. Oxi makes everything seem "faster." People talking, the motions of physical objects, etc.

Phenylpiracetam is stimulating in the sense that it seems to eliminate fatigue, physical and psychological. I develop or more "can do" attitude.

My favorite stack right now is 800 mg oxiracetam with 100 mg phenlylpiracetam, plus a b vitamin complex. Combining those two is almost euphoric.

[Tom_]

Thanks, have you expirenced any tolerance issues with them?

Edited by Tom_, 30 May 2013 - 10:14 PM.

[helluva nootro]

Hi tom, do you mean most stimulating when used as a sole nootropic or are stacks considered within reason also, looks like your interested in sole nootropics but just checking

[Tom_]

It would likely be combined in a stack but I'm interested in its individual effects. Any extra information on nootropics to combine with or possible/adviced stacks are more than welcome.

[JohnnyP]

800mg Oxi, 400 mg Sulbutiamine, 500 mg DLPA and stim of choice is pretty darn stimulating for me.

[Stormy]

Phenylpiracetam is the only racetam that seems to have any stimulant type effect for me. Oxi helps my creative process, which stimulants also do for me, but Oxi doesn't feel at all like a stimulant - it boosts my creativity and clears out some mental cobwebs, but it doesn't feel like it speeds me up, whereas stimulants feel like they speed me up all over, mentally and physically. I've definitely had tolerance issues with Phenyl. After taking it consistently for a few days, it seems to lose all effect until I put it aside for at least a week.

IDK if you want to include Sunifiram in this post, because it's technically a raceram not a racetam, but FWIW I do get stimulant effects from this - it speeds me up in general and can interfere with sleep if I take it in the late afternoon or evening, but the energy it gives me is more of a low-level smooth energy, not the jittery "zoom zoom zoom" type energy I tend to get from regular ol' stims.

[helluva nootro]

As a sole supplement my experience goes as follows..... Piracetam = tunnel vision style focus, strong motivational kick, it may not seem present at first and does not feel like a stimulant but I find myself looking for things to occupy myself or simply starting on things that need to get done. Noopept = Better multi-tasking focus, fair motivational kick, felt more of a calm and it seemed I was easier to switch my concentration between multiple tasks freely and could better focus more things at once than compared to piracetam. Didn't have quite the same motivational kick though. Oxiracetam = Easier to take on a regular basis than piracetam, similar levels of stimulation, not fussed on taking oxiracetam as part of certain stacks though as I find it nulls the effects of other racetams rather than syncing with them. Aniracetam = More like a relaxant, wakes you up a few hours later, would avoid this one on the stimulation topic. Pramiracetam = Slightly more alert, better mood, can become an expensive option though

Edited by helluva nootro, 30 May 2013 - 10:55 PM.

[helluva nootro]

On the Side effects topic, I have noticed quite a few people seem to suffer with brain fog, slowed motor skills and headache being present when taking racetams, some people say to combat this with choline supplementation and diet changes which could all be well and good, I have noticed that any ill effects seem to fade within a week or so and then the positive effects kick in. Makes racetams not a great quick fix for some but if your willing to put the time into a little experimentation the benefits can be well worth it

Edited by helluva nootro, 30 May 2013 - 10:59 PM.

[Captainhat]

Thanks, have you expirenced any tolerance issues with them?

I only take the oxi/phenyl combo three days straight every other week. I understand that a tolerance can develop with almost any drug, and I want to avoid tolerance, so I will never try to test it

I want to add something that another user mentioned. Oxi doesn't stimulate like other stimulants. No jitters, jaw cleanching, OCD like focus, etc. It stimulates my perception and thought flow. I perceive things to move faster, but not in a way that any stimulant has done. To describe it, it is like speeding up an animation's FPS from 30 to 60.

Phenylpiracetam definitely has stimulant qualities to it, but it still isn't like caffeine, coke, or meth.

[Sanguine_Rogue]

The most over all stimulatory racetam I have taken would be Phenylpiracetam. It definitely does help increase stamina and endurance to some degree. Beyond that it seems to make me feel electrified in the first hour of it being active in my system. Pramiracetam also seems to get me kinda amped, not so much in a energy way but in regards to feeling motivated to get out there and take on tasks.

[gg141717]

My vote goes to phenylpiracetam as well

[MikeBurns]

IDK if you want to include Sunifiram in this post, because it's technically a raceram not a racetam

I am at the end of my research ability here. I would be very grateful if you could please point me in the direction of any peer-reviewed journal article, textbook, or authoritative source that distinguishes racerams from racetams. I have found a dozen articles on NIH (PubMed) describing DM235 (Sunifiram) as "structurally related to piracetam" but nothing about a new class of ampakine called racerams. The only sources for this new nomenclature I am able to locate is by average people on message boards like this. Maybe you can help me find any publications from a legitimate group doing research on them (or even talking about them)?

Edited by MikeBurns, 24 August 2013 - 12:26 AM.

[Isochroma]

The combination of Sunifiram 25mg x 6/day and Oxiracetam 500mg x 6/day - both every three hours - is the most powerful combination of all the racetams I have tested to banish my deadly daytime brain-fatigue, slumps and microsleeps. I have not tested Phenylpiracetam and won't likely due to the tolerance effect and cost.

This power is enough to prevent daytime sleepiness due to months-long loss of REM sleep due to the nightly use of hyperpotent cannabinoid CB1 & CB2 full-agonist 5F-AKB48. REM deprivation is one of the harshest tests of daytime anti-fatigue agents. Furthermore, Oxiracetam restores Mitochondrial energy generation to a higher level than either Piracetam or Aniracetam can - I have the neat study with graphs to prove it.

It's great when theory and practice agree. As for the other racetams:

Piracetam is long gone from my regime - it's weak.
Aniracetam is stronger but still weak and causes empty-head syndrome.
Nefiracetam only kept half my brain awake - strange.
Pramiracetam can almost match Oxiracetam but is slightly less powerful and causes slowdown.

Sunifiram at the above dosage cut my sleep requirement from a lifetime of 8h down to 5.5-6.5h and that has sustained at 6.5-7h now that months have passed. Sunifiram is simply the most powerful molecule to increase the efficiency of sleep. It increases the amount of regeneration per slept hour thus decreasing the total sleep-hour requirement per night.

I take no caffeine or alcohol.

[lourdaud]

The combination of Sunifiram 25mg x 6/day and Oxiracetam 500mg x 6/day - both every three hours - is the most powerful combination of all the racetams I have tested to banish my deadly daytime brain-fatigue, slumps and microsleeps. I have not tested Phenylpiracetam and won't likely due to the tolerance effect and cost.

This power is enough to prevent daytime sleepiness due to months-long loss of REM sleep due to the nightly use of hyperpotent cannabinoid CB1 & CB2 full-agonist 5F-AKB48. REM deprivation is one of the harshest tests of daytime anti-fatigue agents. Furthermore, Oxiracetam restores Mitochondrial energy generation to a higher level than either Piracetam or Aniracetam can - I have the neat study with graphs to prove it.

It's great when theory and practice agree. As for the other racetams:

Piracetam is long gone from my regime - it's weak.
Aniracetam is stronger but still weak and causes empty-head syndrome.
Nefiracetam only kept half my brain awake - strange.
Pramiracetam can almost match Oxiracetam but is slightly less powerful and causes slowdown.

Sunifiram at the above dosage cut my sleep requirement from a lifetime of 8h down to 5.5-6.5h and that has sustained at 6.5-7h now that months have passed. Sunifiram is simply the most powerful molecule to increase the efficiency of sleep. It increases the amount of regeneration per slept hour thus decreasing the total sleep-hour requirement per night.

I take no caffeine or alcohol.

I feel weird on oxiracetam alone. Hard to explain but I react in a similar way to aniracetam - just don't feel like myself, I get avoidant and conversating is difficult. Might this change by coupling it with sunifiram?

[Isochroma]

Do you take caffeine?

If yes cut it out and that weird feeling will disappear.

Caffeine is the worst drug and really screws people up so bad they don't even realize it.

[chung_pao]

Do you feel more introvert, less excited/motivated or energetic?
I find many of the racetams can be too cholinergic at times. This is why I've stopped using all other racetams than Phenypiracetam and Piracetam (taken only while fasting).

[garysh566]

Do you take caffeine?

If yes cut it out and that weird feeling will disappear.

Caffeine is the worst drug and really screws people up so bad they don't even realize it.

what about tea it has an amino acid that relaxes the brain so not the same stressful feeling as straight coffee.

[lourdaud]

Do you take caffeine?

If yes cut it out and that weird feeling will disappear.

Caffeine is the worst drug and really screws people up so bad they don't even realize it.

Yes, I drink coffee but I don't think it's because of this, unless caffeine and oxiracetam synergize in a really weird way. For example, I wouldn't feel like this at all from caffeine and piracetam, that combo would just make me jittery.

Do you feel more introvert, less excited/motivated or energetic?
I find many of the racetams can be too cholinergic at times. This is why I've stopped using all other racetams than Phenypiracetam and Piracetam (taken only while fasting).

No, I think this is something else. Piracetam, to a certain extent, and pramiracetam can feel too cholinergic at times but aniracetam and oxiracetam almost make me feel depersonalized.
Maybe they're just not for me.

[protoject]

Is there anyone with ADHD who has not had success with prescribed stims nor any of the racetams (for ADD/adhd specifically) who would vouch for Phenylpiracetam helping them at all???

[Isochroma]

lourdad: It's not about what you think it's about adrenal exhaustion.

Test it instead of wasting my time with your useless 'opinion' that has no basis in experimental fact.

The testing is free and only requires a couple weeks to a month of abstinence.

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 24 August 2013 - 09:28 PM.

[spookytooth]

Is there anyone with ADHD who has not had success with prescribed stims nor any of the racetams (for ADD/adhd specifically) who would vouch for Phenylpiracetam helping them at all???

I am very interested in this as well

[Isochroma]

Even if Phenylpiracetam could help ADHD - a disease of developmental dopaminergic dysregulation produced by fetal Omega-3 deficiency - this racetam is pricey and produces rapid tolerance in the majority of its users.

The ADHD cure is Omega-3 repletion as numerous studies indicate.

For a more detailed view of the mechanisms involved see "Omega 3 Fatty Acids and ADHD: The Theory Behind the Practice".

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 24 August 2013 - 11:48 PM.

[protoject]

Even if Phenylpiracetam could help ADHD - a disease of developmental dopaminergic dysregulation produced by fetal Omega-3 deficiency - this racetam is pricey and produces rapid tolerance in the majority of its users.

The ADHD cure is Omega-3 repletion as numerous studies indicate.

For a more detailed view of the mechanisms involved see "Omega 3 Fatty Acids and ADHD: The Theory Behind the Practice".

I took omega 3s for quite a while and they did mostly nothing.
I took some common liquid brand from a large chain health store, also took a pure EHA from minami.
Not sure if I will ever repair.
Anyway.
I was wondering if you think maybe a pure DHA could work.
I guess when it comes to omega 3's I don't expect that much to happen but i understand that they are definitely something that I should be taking daily, in a reasonable amount. I don't want to eat fish because of the mercury content.

Oh lastly do you know a way I can get ethyl versions of omega 3's? I remember when i got EPA i actually wanted Ethyl-EPA but it degrades more easily hence isn't really sold as supplements. Either that or you get an oxidized ineffective supplement... as far as my limited understanding goes. The good results I saw for depression regarding some EPA studies was done with EthylEPA.

Sorry for derailing the racetam topic a little here, ....

Edited by protoject, 25 August 2013 - 03:29 PM.

[Isochroma]

Unfortunately it is difficult and not always possible to correct Omega-3 deficiencies that occurred in the womb or early life. I have a study that shows it worked on rats but humans have much larger more complex brains.

[lourdaud]

Omega-3 may not be such a good thing if you suffer from low noradrenergic tone. Personally I'm much better off without it.