5 replies to this topic

[Eternal Existence]

Has anyone on this board read any of Dr. Tipler and Dr. Barrow's work? Do you think their Omega Point theory is religious or simply a continuation of transhumanist philosophy? For anyone who wants a quick overview, here is a summary of the basic precepts of the Omega Point Theory formulated by Dr. Frank Tipler and Dr. James Barrow (from Dr. Tipler's homepage):

The Omega Point Theory




I have presented and defended my Omega Point Theory at length in my book The Physics of Immortality (Doubleday, 1994), which is available from Barnes and Noble or Amazon. As science, the Omega Point Theory makes five basic claims about the universe:

(1) the universe is spatially closed (has finite spatial size and has the topology of a three-sphere),

(2) there are no event horizons, implying the future c-boundary is a point --- the Omega Point,

(3) Life must eventually engulf the entire universe and control it,

(4) the amount of information processed between now and the final state is infinite,

(5) the amount of information stored in the universe diverges to infinity as the final state is approached.

I can show that these five basic claims directly follow from the most fundamental laws of physics: unitarity, general relativity with attractive gravity, and the Bekenstein Bound (aka the Heisenberg uncertainty principle). An outline of my proof is given on this web page.

I also argue that the ultimate future state of the universe, the Omega Point, should be identified with God. I have presented my argument in detail in my book The Physics of Immortality, but a main reason for my identification Omega Point = God, comes from Exodus 3:14. In this passage, God is speaking to Moses from the Burning Bush. God gives Moses His Name: EHYEH ASHER EHYEH (in Hebrew, of course). God's Name is best translated into English as I SHALL BE WHAT I SHALL BE. In other words, God is telling Moses that His essence is future tense. If we regard God as something Ultimate, then He is telling us that He is the Ultimate Future. Hence my identification Omega Point = God. My translation of EHYEH ASHER EHYEH is taken from the Oxford University Study Bible (Revised Standard Version), but the great German religious leader Martin Luther translated EHYEH ASHER EHYEH the same way into German: ICH WERDE SEIN, DER ICH SEIN WERDE. Luther's translation of the Bible was to the German language as the King James version was to the English language.

I am also including on this web page two critical defenses of both my scientific argument and my theological argument.

My science is defended by Dr. David Deutsch, a physicist at Oxford University. In January of 1998, Deutsch was awarded the Dirac Medal for his invention of the quantum computer. Deutsch's defense of my science is taken from his brilliant book The Fabric of Reality (Penguin Books, 1997). This book is available from either Barnes and Noble or Amazon. I can strongly recommend this book for its presentation of the Many-Worlds Interpretation, the physics upon which the quantum computer is based. In fact, I agree with almost everything Deutsch says in his book. Where we disagree, I believe it is only because Deutsch has rejected his own theory! I shall reproduce here (with permission) most of the 14th Chapter of Deutsch's book.

My theology is defended by Professor Wolfhart Pannenberg, a theologian at the University of Munich, Germany. Professor Pannenberg has been called "the most brilliant living theological mind". He has been termed "one of the three great theologians of the 20th century". He holds five honorary doctors of divinity degrees. He is eminently qualified to judge theology. Professor Pannenberg's paper, which I reproduce here (with his permission) was originally presented at a conference on my book, held in June of 1997 in Innsbruck, Austria.

Amusingly, the theologian Pannenberg is dubious about some of my physics, and the physicist Deutsch doesn't like my theology! As you will read, Pannenberg does not like the Many- Worlds Interpretation (which Deutsch --- and I --- believe in because it is required by quantum mechanics). Deutsch defends the MWI in his book. I am placing on this web page another defense of the MWI, entitled "Quantum Nonlocality Does Not Exist," which shows that locality --- a fundamental fact of relativity --- is restored to physics by the MWI. I might add that most of the great physicists --- Richard Feynman, Murray Gell-Mann, Steven Weinberg, Stephen Hawking, for examples --- have publicly announced their support for the MWI.

I have included my replies to Deutsch's criticisms of my theology in the excerpts from Deutsch's book. Deutsch does not like the idea of God as the Ultimate Future, but Pannenberg many years ago concluded, as I have, that the Bible says God is the Ultimate Future.




http://www.math.tula...er/summary.html

[Bruce Klein]

I am very skeptical about the Omega Point Theory. It smells to much of religious influence, and I believe it inhibits an immortalist from fully embracing life now.


Visit:
http://www.imminst.o...35&hl=tipler&s=

[Eternal Existence]

I am very skeptical about the Omega Point Theory. It smells to much of religious influence, and I believe it inhibits an immortalist from fully embracing life now.

I think it reeks of religious influence not because it was Tipler's original intention, but because he is, to put it bluntly, kisisng the religious right's ass. Too much of Tipler's arguments are going forward to formulating an Omega Point Theology to be accepted by the Christian right, when instead he should be working out the mathematical kinks in the theory.

[Eternal Existence]

and I believe it inhibits an immortalist from fully embracing life now.

To be absolutely honest with you, this seems to me to be more of sentimental, rather than a scientific criticism (no offense intended). I can think of several reasons why an immortalist who is somewhat of a "believer" (if that's an appropriate word) in the Omega Point theory would embrace immortalism right now. The Omega Point requires that intelligent life engulf the universe; being a part of this process if indeed it would assure infinte existence under optimal conditions, would for me be a significant enough incentive to apply myself toward an immortalist state.

[Bruce Klein]

Well, you're right... my true color and agenda is probably showing through.

I guess my first instinct is to be extra cautious. I know Tipler carries much weight in the physics and transhumanist arena. I wouldn't want people latching onto this idea without fully questioning the motive and theory involved.

[MichaelAnissimov]

I think the Omega Point Theory is fascinating, but does contain a few flaws and holes. Regardless of Tipler's original intention, we can all interpret OPT on our own, analyze the evidence that Tipler has presented, and see if this new knowledge influences any of our present-day decisions. I've found, for the most part, that it does not. Tipler's work has fascinated and motivated many a transhumanist, although it does threaten to distract transhumanists from the present-day necessity of ensuring a positive future. Tipler gallantly assumes that future intelligences will necessarily revive us, but this compassion is not for certain. Planck limits on the compression of space and time could potentially set a sturdy barrier for a collapsing civilization, barring it from employing infinite processing power. In addition, the number of physically possible organisms is combinatorally large, and would require a combinatorally large quantity of processing power to implement. I agree with Bruce in that intelligent individuals should have full knowledge of Tipler's aims before taking up the theory as potential truth, and that there is a risk of using it as an escape mechanism from today's harsh reality. If anything, Tipler's theory represents the most ecstatic heights of future shock and science-based speculation, and I think that has memetic value all on its own. Training ourselves to analyze and discuss extremely radical theories bestows us with a sort of cool-headedness and objective attitude that may not be available anywhere else.