50 replies to this topic

[Doktor]

If anyone can honestly help me out, I will forever be indebt to you... I mean it.

I have always been depressed, as far back as primary school.... However, just recently I began researching aTypical depression, and I am positive that I belong to this subset:

• I overeat
• I oversleep
• I have fairly bad rejection avoidance (to the point where it is nearly impossible for me to become new friends with someone)
• I experience pleasure when good things happen, and have brief time-periods of remission
• I have actually even experienced RLS and the "leaden paralysis"
  ...etc.

As you can see, I pretty much exactly fit the bill for this diagnosis; reading the wiki on this diagnosis actually blew me away (how strikingly accurate it described my symptoms) I am seeing a psychiatrist, and - unfortunately - the last time I saw him, I was in a brief moment of remission, so I think he now believes I'm not depressed. I even fool myself (completely) during these moments.

I have tried a myriad of SSRIs... they make me feel numb, shallow, and the fact that I get zero side effects from them (no sexual sides AT ALL) makes me think that they're probably doing jack shit. I know that these are not the medications for me.

I have tried concerta and vyvanse (long standing focus / motivation issues)... they both provide great temporary relief of most of my symptoms, but they make me anxious (vyvanse not so much... more the methylphenidate tbh), and I feel like they are a very superficial way of treating my condition, as the relief is just a fleeting cover-up.

Finally, I have tried wellbutrin... this med filled me with a PSYCHOTIC rage, to the point where I am certain that if I stayed on it, I would have ended up seriously harming someone.

As for supplements, I am currently taking:

• Omega 3s
• Vitamin D3
• D-Phenylalanine
• B vitamins
• Magnesium Citrate (actually helps a bit!)

... And I have tried:

• Ashwaghanda (helped a little bit with anxiety)
• St Johns Wort (did nothing)
• SAMe (may have helped a bit)
• 5-HTP (did nothing)

And probably some others I am forgetting.

Please... I can't keep feeling this way forever and hiding myself from people. If anyone can help... I really appreciate it.

[YOLF]

Have you read this thread:
http://www.longecity...o-hard-to-beat/

Has some good info on the roots of depression and anxiety which may apply.

Some more good info here:
http://www.longecity...ytocin-acetate/

And we're also looking for more Canadians here:
http://www.longecity...c60-human-trial

[Tom_]

First of all: Meds won't bring you to remission alone. Atypical depression tends to come along with a cluster fuck of other comorbid psychiatric diagnoses which need to be taken into account as well. I would suggest you look at clinical presentations and diagnostic criteria of avoidant and borderline personality disorders which are two of the most common comorbid disorders to atypical depression. Whether you think they are relevant to you or not CBT is going to be an important part of your treatment response. CBT is best within a group or 1:1 setting but using online resources and books as either supplemental or as a first line therapy before you decide to splurge on group/1:1 are viable options. Practicing mindfulness and meditating is also worth your while. As part of the CBT, behavioral interventions are going to play a key part.

The stimulants weren't treating your condition, they are temporarily reversing some of its effects.

How long did you spend on the SSRI's? Did you reach a good dose? What ones have you tried?

I assume you have had a STANDARD physical(you don't need hormones testing, vitamin panels, imaging studies etc unless you are having more than just psychological symptoms)?

Medication wise, you have a lot of options & I think these are your best bets:

Venlafaxine
Modafinil
Meclobremide
Triiodothyronine

I recommend you start with Venlafaxine. Reach a dose of 225 and after a month if there is any noticeable effect stay on it. If you are almost completely better don't play around with the dose and see what happens. If its done nothing (literally nothing not just 'very little') then quit it in favor of Meclobremide. Otherwise add in 100mg of modafinil or 50mcg of T3.

[penisbreath]

look up Ex Dubio's posts on atypical depression @ mindandmuscle

basically, the verdict was low-dose SSRI (5mg lexapro) and a stimulant or, if you're feeling more adventurous, an irreversible MAOI

[sthira]

Please... I can't keep feeling this way forever and hiding myself from people. If anyone can help... I really appreciate it.

Do you live in a city?

[Cazorp]

You sound alot like myself...when I heard about psychotropic medications I went to the doctor and I must have tried them all...with little true relief. The only thing that really helped my depression was Xanax as it has a pretty good antidepressant effect...however, it can be habit forming and my first doc was unwilling to prescribe it to me so I had to change doctors. After a few years of it I started to get rather cloudy in the head so now I just take doxepin and fluoxetine. Have you ever tried that combination?
Doxepin has antagonistic effects at 5ht1a, 5ht2a, 5ht2b, 5ht2c receptors...it seems that ''shutting off" certain serotonin receptors can be a good thing for bad moods.
I too take magnesium (oxide) 500 mg/day. There are other forms of magnesium that are touted as being better for depression including magnesium glycinate or taurate...you might try one of these.
It's possible you carry a gene for schizophrenia which could account for your bad reactions to SSRI's and Welbutrin so I WOULD be very careful with these types of medications.

Edited by Cazorp, 07 July 2013 - 08:03 PM.

[Doktor]

Thanks for the replies guys.

_Tom, I've been considering meclobremide, but I don't think I'm going to try Venlafaxine... everything I've heard/read about it says that it has the worst withdrawals of any med. I've been reading about the irreversible MAOIs as well... before I try that though, I think I might try a low dose of H. Caapi tea. I've heard anecdotal reports that the harmine in low doses can actually help some people.

Also, I'm currently on escitalopram 10mg, and vyvanse 30mg. Still pretty depressed, sometimes extremely depressed even.

[Tom_]

To start with, escitalopram 10mg is a lowish dose, you should try 20 before you discontinue it.

Withdrawal happens in about 1 in 3 SS/NRI users. Venlafaxine isn't much better or worse than any other. There are the odd horror stories but I can't think of a drug that doesn't have them.

Venlafaxine is about as effective as it gets when it comes to antidepressants. There are case reports and a single double blind study of Modafinil 200mg wiping floor with atypical depression. Research in atypical depression is pretty clear that T3 can help and as an adjunct to antidepressants its as effective as lithium (most studied adjunct) and the second most studied.

Meclobremide is an option but side effects may become heavy if you start polypharmacy with it and I would leave it as a third line.

I know you won't follow this advice but I think its your best option. Stick out with the escitalopram at 20mg and add in T3 at 50-80mcg. If that doesn't work add in Modafinil at 100mg or swap to Venlafaxine. It likely to cause the least side effects, has the biggest range of action, is research supported and theoretically sound.

The side effects, restrictions and potential for fatal/severe reactions with irreversible MAOI's and difficulty in adding drugs in, in the case of treatment resistance makes them a poor choice for where you are at now.

If you wont take venlafaxine/stick with escitalopram then Meclobremide is for you.

H. Caapi tea...really?

[chemicalambrosia]

"St Johns Wort (did nothing)"

What kind did you try?

[noos]

Google chromium for atypical depression.
Have you tried SAMe?

[Tom_]

Chromium supplementation was only shown to relieve symptoms of hyperphagia.

[Doktor]

Tom_, I have indeed heard that venlafaxine is a potent anti-depressant, but I have read far too many reports of horrid withdrawals:

http://www.steadyhea...tml<br /><br />http://www.wisegeek....out<br /><br />http://www.effexorla...om/<br /><br />http://www.lawyersan...=79<br /><br />http://www.consumera...m/rx/wyeth.html

... Among many others. The consensus among many depression/anxiety forum participants at various sites indicates that Effexor's potent inhibition of the reuptake of both serotonin and norepinephrine is what may contribute to it having the worst reported withdrawals. I have heard that they can go on for a long time (dependent on dose and duration of treatment obviously). There have even been multiple successful lawsuits against Pfitzer because of their negligence to warn prospective patients of the "Cessation Syndrome"; I have no doubt in my mind that they do this to secure lifetime customers - those greedy fucking pigs. Also, I have withdrawn from Cipralex/Lexapro twice before (cold turkey at 20mg) and barely felt bad at all, so I really believe that the severity of withdrawals varies greatly among these meds (due most likely to binding affinity, selectivity, and half-life) Honestly, doesn't seem worth it IMO, but not saying that it's a useless medication at all, as it does seem effective at least.

Chemicalambrosia, tbh I am not sure which type I tried... I think it was Jameson brand St. Johns Wort (which is standardized to some certain percentage). I realize in retrospect that I probably generalized like crazy by simply saying it's ineffective, so I guess it is worth a second look.

Noos, I have never read about Chromium, so I will look into it. I have however tried SAMe; once while on 20mg escitalopram, and once on its own, each time for about 2-3 weeks continuously at 400mg. I seem to remember noticing a mood lift when it was on it's own, and on the contrary, I felt very fucked up when I took it with the Cipralex... my symptoms at that time were similar to serotonin syndrome, and were NOT pleasant, with a marked increase in anxiety. I remember SAMe being a little stimulative as well... perhaps I will give this one a second try at some point, as it definitely had a noticeable positive impact on it's own. This time however, I will wait until I have stopped my cipralex completely (which will be sooner then later as you are about to read).

Update:

The more I read about atypical depression, the more MAOIs seem like the most promising treatment vector. Due to the food/med restrictions as well as the slim-to-none chance that I will get one perscribed however, I have decided to investigate this idea by taking a "natural" route; If I seem to respond well to natural MAOIs, then I will either continue treating myself with them indefinitely, or maybe pursue a pharmaceutical option... I really do not believe that pharms are always the best way though, and will do what I can to stay relatively "All-Natural". I have narrowed my list of potentials down to the following after a lot of research:

• Harmala alkaloids (via a "very" low dose of B Caapi tea)
• Rhodiola (through a reputable supplement)
• Ginko Baloba (same thing)
• Curcumin (probably by taking a curcumin extract like Curamed/Curamin, plus a 1/4 to 1/2 tsp of Black Pepper, as Piperadine has been shown to boost absorption by 2000% apparently

Since I still had a few capsules of Curamed (a high-quality extract of curcumin along with a few other herbs such as Boswellia), I decided I would try this tonight.

Let me begin by saying that I have tried this supplement many times before, and got next-to-no effects from it. This time though, I combined one capsule with a 1/4 tablespoon of black pepper, and the results have been quite apparent! To the point where I am probably going to buy another over-priced bottle of the stuff tomorrow. As of right now, I feel a little warm, my back ache is gone (was lingering all day), but most importantly, I feel almost lucid at the moment... Very relaxed, content (best word to describe it), and just all around positive about things. Needless to say, I'm quite surprised!

Tomorrow I am going to take the same dose again in the morning, and then once again at lunch, both times on an empty stomach. I will update again with my results... there is actually a lot of very good looking research on curcumin for a variety of ailments - depression and anxiety included. I am actually quite excited for this experimentation with these interesting natural MAOIs... wish me luck!

[formergenius]

If you're going down the natural route, check out Saffron as well.

Edited by formergenius, 13 July 2013 - 12:12 PM.

[overfocused]

I really cannot recommend CBT enough, I have a stange mixture of depression, ADHD-PI, hypersexuality, anxiety, anti-social behavior and have had better effect out of reading Feeling Good by David Burnes (one of the pioneers of CBT). In particular start running a diary of your daily dysfunctional thoughts, this step alone will slowly but surely start correcting your thinking. As for meds Zoloft, wellbutrin and deprenyl seams to help slightly but my current supplement stack of CDP choline, SAM-e, Omega 3 and vinpocetine seams to be better.

Edited by overfocused, 13 July 2013 - 03:44 PM.

[noos]

How do you use deprenyl overfocused?
I think atypical is different from what you have.

[overfocused]

Atypical depression was first considered as I to function quite well at times but also at times score very high on depression scales (severe depression). BI-polar has been ruled out and my p-doc(s) have not been in agreement if anxiety/depression-combo or ADHD-PI is my primary problem, although I would myself consider ADHD-PI to be the cause of my anxiety/depression.

Deprenyl (5mg bid) worked quite well in removing anxiety when I was working (fidgeting in legs, inability to set still) and focusing my mind. Also it greatly improved my ability to socialize (to the degree that people remarking that I had begun flirting with random girls - something I would never do). Also intrusive angry or guilt thoughts seamed to lessen and I became less introverted. It did however increase my libido, something I do not! need as I am already hyper sexual.

My supplement combo mentioned above works quite well for me now but deprenyl was by itself almost as effective and far more consistent so I am consider going on it again perhaps at a lower dose or only every other day.

Edited by overfocused, 13 July 2013 - 04:34 PM.

[noos]

Thanks overfocused.
What do you notice from cdp choline?

[Doktor]

overfocused, I have been interested in Selegiline as of late, seeing as it is an MAOI (even though only B-selective). You're results sound quite promising, especially the bit about flirting with random girls! I have heard that the MAOI class of drugs is especially adept at not only removing/lessening social anxiety, but the inhibition aspect of it as well. I feel like removing anxiety is a small piece of the puzzle... after all, what good does being anxiety free do when you have no desire to talk to people, or feel like you have nothing to talk about! You're telling me that you felt more socially adept on Deprenyl and had less anxiety (even though it raises dopamine)?? If this is the case... may I ask why in hell you stopped taking it?? lol.

Update! (try and picture Tourettes guy when you read that... "Nobody gives a SHIT, about BIGFOOT! so fuck him!"... lol :/ I digress...)

Very positive experience today! On a whim, I decided to go browse around at Vitamin Shoppe (Vitapath in Canada), and ended up purchasing a bottle of both Bacopa and Ashwagandha - both the Himalayan Healthcare brand. About an hour ago, I decided to take two Ashwagandha tablets, and one Bacopa tablet, just to test the waters.

Holy Siberian Shitwinds Mr Lahey! I've taken Ashwagandha before, but the combination of the two of these makes for an extremely smooth (yet deeply profound) anxiolytic! I will definitely continue to update, as I have never been so impressed with a herbal anxiolytic before in my life. I need to start experimenting with taking them on their own as well.

I will also note that I took the Ashwagandha an hour before the Bacopa, and definitely felt relaxing/calming effects before augmenting the feeling with the Bacopa... I took half the dose that I took the last time I experimented with Ash, and had bought overpriced horseshit from Natures Emporium.

Seriously, they have a nice selection there, but I found them overpriced, and all the employees had their heads filled to the brim with this hippy, new-age, pseudo-science bullshit... The kind of nonsense that you hear from the lesser educated who simply believe "PLANTS=GOOD DRUGS=BAD", even though half their products are high potency extracts, essentially making them just as much drugs as prescription medicines are drugs...

IMO... of course... lol. Can you tell that I am in a much better mood today? This stuff has serious potential.

I'm also highly caffeinated ATM, so please excuse my ADD.

[overfocused]

Doctor I definitely felt more socially active on Deprenyl, with very increased eye support and ability to engage in interaction (flirting). As for its effect on anxiety I have always had problems sitting still, having anxious feelings in my legs when working and often needs to pace the room in order to think. This issue was greatly reduced on Deprenyl.

Your Ashwagandha experience sound promising, I wonder if I should try it again.

Noos I found that CDP Choline reduces (even removes) any brainfog I might have in the morning, allowing me to get going quicker and improves my focus slighly. Also CDP choline raises Uridine so it should also have some positive effects on depression when combined with DHA

Edited by overfocused, 14 July 2013 - 10:11 AM.

[Doktor]

Wow... I am exactly the same as you man... well, maybe not totally, but very similar. I've always had problems sitting still and focusing, and am always restless / feel full of energy. For the record, I find hitting the gym calms this feeling very effectively; My theory is that people like us likely have genes from distant ancestors who were hunters and had that sort of ADHD hyper-aware characterization in order to survive... because of this, I think we may just need a lot more physical exersion then the average person in order to keep our neurotransmitters and what-not balanced.

Do you find that you have frequent new ideas, switch what you're doing quite often, and find that your leg is pistoning like crazy while you work at a desk?

Also, I took Ashwagandha again today, this time by itself... honestly, its too early to tell for sure but I think the majority of the effects I got yesterday were from the one tab of Bacopa, not the Ash. I do feel like I'm in a positive mood and not very stressed atm, but the Bacopa was like this INTENSE feeling of inner peace and relaxation, and it seemed to clear my mind right out, allowing me to have conversations with people extremely easily.

That's the other thing too... I think I definitely got a strong oxytocin response from the Bacopa; I felt extremely open emotionally, and wanted to talk to almost everyone I walked past :P I went walking around the block just because I was feeling this intense empathy for others that I had not felt in a long time....

Seriously, the empathy actually reminded me of that feeling you get on MDMA where you love everyone and are just totally content. I was actually amazed with the effects I got last night, and I can't wait to dose Bacopa again to see if they keep up!

[nowayout]

Yeah, in general having difficulty sitting still, and pacing to think, is normal. Many great intellectuals are on record as doing their work while walking, hiking, pacing, etc. It is certainly not a pathology and should certainly not be medicated. The expectation that it should be medicated is a sign of a pathological society.

Standing desks and even treadmill desks are becoming popular, fwiw, although good luck getting most employers to agree to.it.

Edited by nowayout, 14 July 2013 - 05:54 PM.

[Doktor]

Haha really! Never heard of it. I have a government job though, and something tells me that - if I had an expert in productivity or mental health attest to the benefits of having a desk treadmill - they would install one. Government exmployers like to spend a lot of tax dollars on stuff they don't really need.

Also just FYI, I took another Bacopa tablet about half an hour ago, as I was beginning to get pretty stressed about all the work I have piled up right now... the effects from last night must have been mainly the Bacopa, as I now have that Zen feeling again... This stuff rocks. I'm loving this.

[mrvontar]

I might try bacopa since you seem to have such great results from it

[sparkk51]

I wish I could try herbs like SJW or Bacopa (which I currently have). Unfortunately, mixing them with antidepressants is dangerous and I am afraid of going off Venlafaxine even for a short duration, because it COMPLETELY stifles my depression.

I'm thinking I also have atypical depression; Would you say I fit the bill if I am perfectly happy doing entertaining and relaxing activities, but become suicidal when dealing with my job/education and refrain from communicating with others? I have pretty much been this way my entire life until now. Before Venlaxafine, events such as changing schools or even having to write a major essay would bring me to the verge of hopelessness in life.

[mrvontar]

Do you think I have depression? Life seems boring, dull. I dislike people--not quite sure if it's social anxiety. I guess it is since it does inhibit me from doing things I need to do. I also have little motivation to do things that need to be done. Examples would be registering for school, studying language, etc. I have a doctor's appointment in 3 days so I guess I'll ask for antidepressant medicine and see if it helps. Do you think antidepressants will help me be more motivated and by this reasoning also increase my concentration?

[overfocused]

mrvontar The hallmark of depression is lack of interest in life, including things that used to interest you. People often think (as did i prior to being diagnosed) that sadness is depression, this is usually not the case. Atypical depression is contrasted to major depression in that people suffering for MDD usually have no interest in life at all where atypical depressed people may have interest and joy in certain things.

The gold standard for treading depression, anxiety and OCD is actually not medication but CBT (measured by effectiveness) in fact most SSRI does not provide much help over placebo. I can highly recommend that you check out books by David Burns, an early pioneer of CBT, such as When Panic Attacks or Feeling Good. I went through these books myself, before getting a real therapists after years of non working medication, and saw my depression drop from 56 (severe depression) into 20 (mild depression) in little over a month (as measured on the Burns Depression Scale).

Note my rant against anti depressant does not mean that every depressed patient can be cured by CBT, there are certainly depressions where medication is called for, but in these cases the meds used (such as Californian Rocket Fuel) are usually far more effective (with brutal side effects) than standard SSRIs.

Edited by overfocused, 15 July 2013 - 10:19 AM.

[Heh]

Have you tried high dose Niacin? Like 3+ grams per day?

[nowayout]

Do you think I have depression? Life seems boring, dull. I dislike people--not quite sure if it's social anxiety. I guess it is since it does inhibit me from doing things I need to do. I also have little motivation to do things that need to be done. Examples would be registering for school, studying language, etc. I have a doctor's appointment in 3 days so I guess I'll ask for antidepressant medicine and see if it helps. Do you think antidepressants will help me be more motivated and by this reasoning also increase my concentration?

It is hard to say. A lot of what you describe is simply the human confition. You are supposed to get bored, unmotivated and unhappy in an environment without enough enrichment. We should not psthologize normality.

[Doktor]

I might try bacopa since you seem to have such great results from it

I would highly suggest you look into it; it has by far the most potent effects I have ever gotten from a herbal supplement. What impresses me so much about it is that every time I've taken it so far, I have been quite anxious before dosing, and ALL the anxiety is gone within 40 minutes... all of it! The only other medications that have done this for me are the benzodiazepines, and - I'm not exaggerating in the slightest - the Bacopa works as well or possibly better then them without any problematic levels of sedation (although I am on vvyanse, which could very well be countering it), and without the prospect of dependence. So far, it is quite literally the best anxiety drug/supplement I've ever taken.

One negative I have noticed though... when the acute effects of the Bacopa wear off (in a number of hours), I feel mildly groggy. Interestingly, the anxiolytic effect seems to remain regardless, but I have not yet tried redosing at this time... I really want to stick to one a day in order to mitigate possible tolerance. Which begs the question: Does Bacopa garner a tolerance from everyday use?

I wish I could try herbs like SJW or Bacopa (which I currently have). Unfortunately, mixing them with antidepressants is dangerous and I am afraid of going off Venlafaxine even for a short duration, because it COMPLETELY stifles my depression.

I'm thinking I also have atypical depression; Would you say I fit the bill if I am perfectly happy doing entertaining and relaxing activities, but become suicidal when dealing with my job/education and refrain from communicating with others? I have pretty much been this way my entire life until now. Before Venlaxafine, events such as changing schools or even having to write a major essay would bring me to the verge of hopelessness in life.

I am currently on 10mg Cipralex (escitalopram), and have not noticed any negative effects. Honestly, I have mixed this with a number of sertonergics before, and never had issues; I think the high selectivity of escitalopram may help with that. I do realize what can happen though, and I am not recommending anything.

Also worth noting: I have heard of more occurrences of Serotonin Syndrome from mixing Effexor with other sertonergics then any of the other popular ADs, so I would probably stay away like you are currently.

Do you think I have depression? Life seems boring, dull. I dislike people--not quite sure if it's social anxiety. I guess it is since it does inhibit me from doing things I need to do. I also have little motivation to do things that need to be done. Examples would be registering for school, studying language, etc. I have a doctor's appointment in 3 days so I guess I'll ask for antidepressant medicine and see if it helps. Do you think antidepressants will help me be more motivated and by this reasoning also increase my concentration?

It sounds like you have a mood disorder, but I wouldn't advise you begin medication. The only time I recommend medication is if your mood is negatively impacting your life - as well as other people - in a very significant way; There is no end to what a person can work through without the aid of pharmaceuticals. However.... if for whatever reason you do decide to try medication, I would go for something that hits your dopamine; Get Focalin or Dexedrine/Vyvanse if you can, as these seem to be the smoothest. Raising your serotonin is unlikely to accomplish anything if you are amotivational and lethargic... Plus, the dopamine will help a flat mood (or anhedonic symptoms) dramatically. For some fucking retarded reason, Doctors do not prescribe these meds for depression (as if dopamine is not involved...), so you'll likely need to fake an ADHD diagnosis... its easy as shit, that's what I did and I don't regret it one bit.

The way I see it, unless doctors are willing to keep an open mind and acknowledge that depression is not solely caused by low serotonin... then the moral/ethical dilemma of faking an attention disorder to get what I need does not exist.

Have you tried high dose Niacin? Like 3+ grams per day?

Holy shit. That is a lot of niacin... questions:

• Are you not essentially Perma-Flushed taking that much?
• Are you sure that Niacin is safe to take at that dose?
• Through what mechanism does mega-dosing niacin relieve depression?

I have experimented with Niacin before (with no noticeable impact), but I took a much more "typical" dose then that... That's a lot of niacin...

[mrvontar]

At 500 mg niacin will flush your body out for a while, 3g would probably be bad for you especially if you took it all at once.

Eh, it's a bit more severe than I made it sound. Basically, I was planning on killing myself for a long time because I find no interest in life. I have no motivation to do anything and this has lasted for the last 7ish years. I've wasted countless hours playing video games and thus ignoring reality. The other half of my life was devoted to studying psychology/sociology; I wasn't totally lazy in my endeavors to live. I don't think anyone truly wants to die and I'm no exception. Yet, lately I feel as if I'm going under psychosis or something. Lots of failure in my attempts to connect to other people, social isolation starting to get to me, family too. The list could go on...It's really depressing and usually I wouldn't be willing to take any medication but nowadays-- at this point, the pride I have at existing in my current state alone no longer suffices the reasons to not be at a higher state of being through external means (i.e. medication)

I was planning on faking ADHD actually. Any suggestions? I think ADHD meds may be better than antidepressants because when I took adderall I noticed either more focus or more motivation by immense bounds. I've never been on antidepressants so I can't really say if they do anything for me. Would faking it be relatively easy?

And yea, I might have a mood disorder. Someone else said that to me; besides that, I will read those books you suggested. I think my mood is definitely affecting myself and others in a negative way since it is causing me to have no motivation in life. However, I am confused as to what the root of the problem is. I have felt this way for 7 years as I've said but I'm not sure if it is because of social anxiety or depression. Is it considered social anxiety when you just dislike people to extreme degrees? I guess it is that, it would create a them vs myself mentality which would result in some form of mental compensation (psychosis, schizophrenia, narcissism) and I seem to be experiencing these things in vestigial forms. Although, I don't see how I can change my mind about people. I understand CBT but how will it work when my experiences of the world are constantly validated in a negative polarization--contrary to what I'd like to believe. Most people can counterstep such negative influences on their psyche by believing in religion or something but no religion do I believe nor philosophies.

I've tried curing my current problem through various methods: I workout every day almost with weights and intense exercise, I eat healthy, I supplement healthy (usually a multi-vit), changing my mind about human nature, studying humanity, studying myself; all of which FAILED.

Thanks for the advice btw guys.