50 replies to this topic

[Heh]

I might try bacopa since you seem to have such great results from it

I would highly suggest you look into it; it has by far the most potent effects I have ever gotten from a herbal supplement. What impresses me so much about it is that every time I've taken it so far, I have been quite anxious before dosing, and ALL the anxiety is gone within 40 minutes... all of it! The only other medications that have done this for me are the benzodiazepines, and - I'm not exaggerating in the slightest - the Bacopa works as well or possibly better then them without any problematic levels of sedation (although I am on vvyanse, which could very well be countering it), and without the prospect of dependence. So far, it is quite literally the best anxiety drug/supplement I've ever taken.

One negative I have noticed though... when the acute effects of the Bacopa wear off (in a number of hours), I feel mildly groggy. Interestingly, the anxiolytic effect seems to remain regardless, but I have not yet tried redosing at this time... I really want to stick to one a day in order to mitigate possible tolerance. Which begs the question: Does Bacopa garner a tolerance from everyday use?

I wish I could try herbs like SJW or Bacopa (which I currently have). Unfortunately, mixing them with antidepressants is dangerous and I am afraid of going off Venlafaxine even for a short duration, because it COMPLETELY stifles my depression.

I'm thinking I also have atypical depression; Would you say I fit the bill if I am perfectly happy doing entertaining and relaxing activities, but become suicidal when dealing with my job/education and refrain from communicating with others? I have pretty much been this way my entire life until now. Before Venlaxafine, events such as changing schools or even having to write a major essay would bring me to the verge of hopelessness in life.

I am currently on 10mg Cipralex (escitalopram), and have not noticed any negative effects. Honestly, I have mixed this with a number of sertonergics before, and never had issues; I think the high selectivity of escitalopram may help with that. I do realize what can happen though, and I am not recommending anything.

Also worth noting: I have heard of more occurrences of Serotonin Syndrome from mixing Effexor with other sertonergics then any of the other popular ADs, so I would probably stay away like you are currently.

Do you think I have depression? Life seems boring, dull. I dislike people--not quite sure if it's social anxiety. I guess it is since it does inhibit me from doing things I need to do. I also have little motivation to do things that need to be done. Examples would be registering for school, studying language, etc. I have a doctor's appointment in 3 days so I guess I'll ask for antidepressant medicine and see if it helps. Do you think antidepressants will help me be more motivated and by this reasoning also increase my concentration?

It sounds like you have a mood disorder, but I wouldn't advise you begin medication. The only time I recommend medication is if your mood is negatively impacting your life - as well as other people - in a very significant way; There is no end to what a person can work through without the aid of pharmaceuticals. However.... if for whatever reason you do decide to try medication, I would go for something that hits your dopamine; Get Focalin or Dexedrine/Vyvanse if you can, as these seem to be the smoothest. Raising your serotonin is unlikely to accomplish anything if you are amotivational and lethargic... Plus, the dopamine will help a flat mood (or anhedonic symptoms) dramatically. For some fucking retarded reason, Doctors do not prescribe these meds for depression (as if dopamine is not involved...), so you'll likely need to fake an ADHD diagnosis... its easy as shit, that's what I did and I don't regret it one bit.

The way I see it, unless doctors are willing to keep an open mind and acknowledge that depression is not solely caused by low serotonin... then the moral/ethical dilemma of faking an attention disorder to get what I need does not exist.

Have you tried high dose Niacin? Like 3+ grams per day?

Holy shit. That is a lot of niacin... questions:

• Are you not essentially Perma-Flushed taking that much?
  
• Are you sure that Niacin is safe to take at that dose?
  
• Through what mechanism does mega-dosing niacin relieve depression?

I have experimented with Niacin before (with no noticeable impact), but I took a much more "typical" dose then that... That's a lot of niacin...

3g is fine (it must be regular niacin, not the no-flush kind, as that will harm your liver), you have to build up to that dosage, and you have to take it with 3g Vitamin C, and 1g Vitamin B5. If you build up the dosage, flushing doesn't occur. Also, people have taken 12g at once (with equal amounts vitamin C) and claimed it vanquished their depression. I think you should run through the gamut to see if you have any vitamin/mineral deficiencies, dietary problems, hormonal imbalances, etc.

By the way, I enjoyed the niacin flush. Nice, warm, and soothing. I looked forward to it everyday.

Edited by Joel, 15 July 2013 - 07:11 PM.

[Cazorp]

Have you ever tried Luvox or Insidon ? They affect the sigmoid receptors giving a differrent type of relief to depression.

[Cazorp]

Have you ever tried Luvox or Insidon ? They affect the sigmoid receptors giving a differrent type of relief to depression.

Correction: I sholud have said Insidon affects the "sigma" receptors. Apparently it has lillte if any re-uptake properties.
In Germany Insidon/Opipramol is prescribed for:
Panikattacken
Phobien
Nervosen Erschopfungszustanden
Depressiven Verstimmungen
&
Wechseljahresbeschwerden

and if you're a guy and suffer from that last one...then you know something really is amiss !

[Doktor]

I might try bacopa since you seem to have such great results from it

I would highly suggest you look into it; it has by far the most potent effects I have ever gotten from a herbal supplement. What impresses me so much about it is that every time I've taken it so far, I have been quite anxious before dosing, and ALL the anxiety is gone within 40 minutes... all of it! The only other medications that have done this for me are the benzodiazepines, and - I'm not exaggerating in the slightest - the Bacopa works as well or possibly better then them without any problematic levels of sedation (although I am on vvyanse, which could very well be countering it), and without the prospect of dependence. So far, it is quite literally the best anxiety drug/supplement I've ever taken.

One negative I have noticed though... when the acute effects of the Bacopa wear off (in a number of hours), I feel mildly groggy. Interestingly, the anxiolytic effect seems to remain regardless, but I have not yet tried redosing at this time... I really want to stick to one a day in order to mitigate possible tolerance. Which begs the question: Does Bacopa garner a tolerance from everyday use?

I wish I could try herbs like SJW or Bacopa (which I currently have). Unfortunately, mixing them with antidepressants is dangerous and I am afraid of going off Venlafaxine even for a short duration, because it COMPLETELY stifles my depression.

I'm thinking I also have atypical depression; Would you say I fit the bill if I am perfectly happy doing entertaining and relaxing activities, but become suicidal when dealing with my job/education and refrain from communicating with others? I have pretty much been this way my entire life until now. Before Venlaxafine, events such as changing schools or even having to write a major essay would bring me to the verge of hopelessness in life.

I am currently on 10mg Cipralex (escitalopram), and have not noticed any negative effects. Honestly, I have mixed this with a number of sertonergics before, and never had issues; I think the high selectivity of escitalopram may help with that. I do realize what can happen though, and I am not recommending anything.

Also worth noting: I have heard of more occurrences of Serotonin Syndrome from mixing Effexor with other sertonergics then any of the other popular ADs, so I would probably stay away like you are currently.

Do you think I have depression? Life seems boring, dull. I dislike people--not quite sure if it's social anxiety. I guess it is since it does inhibit me from doing things I need to do. I also have little motivation to do things that need to be done. Examples would be registering for school, studying language, etc. I have a doctor's appointment in 3 days so I guess I'll ask for antidepressant medicine and see if it helps. Do you think antidepressants will help me be more motivated and by this reasoning also increase my concentration?

It sounds like you have a mood disorder, but I wouldn't advise you begin medication. The only time I recommend medication is if your mood is negatively impacting your life - as well as other people - in a very significant way; There is no end to what a person can work through without the aid of pharmaceuticals. However.... if for whatever reason you do decide to try medication, I would go for something that hits your dopamine; Get Focalin or Dexedrine/Vyvanse if you can, as these seem to be the smoothest. Raising your serotonin is unlikely to accomplish anything if you are amotivational and lethargic... Plus, the dopamine will help a flat mood (or anhedonic symptoms) dramatically. For some fucking retarded reason, Doctors do not prescribe these meds for depression (as if dopamine is not involved...), so you'll likely need to fake an ADHD diagnosis... its easy as shit, that's what I did and I don't regret it one bit.

The way I see it, unless doctors are willing to keep an open mind and acknowledge that depression is not solely caused by low serotonin... then the moral/ethical dilemma of faking an attention disorder to get what I need does not exist.

Have you tried high dose Niacin? Like 3+ grams per day?

Holy shit. That is a lot of niacin... questions:

• Are you not essentially Perma-Flushed taking that much?
  
• Are you sure that Niacin is safe to take at that dose?
  
• Through what mechanism does mega-dosing niacin relieve depression?

I have experimented with Niacin before (with no noticeable impact), but I took a much more "typical" dose then that... That's a lot of niacin...

3g is fine (it must be regular niacin, not the no-flush kind, as that will harm your liver), you have to build up to that dosage, and you have to take it with 3g Vitamin C, and 1g Vitamin B5. If you build up the dosage, flushing doesn't occur. Also, people have taken 12g at once (with equal amounts vitamin C) and claimed it vanquished their depression. I think you should run through the gamut to see if you have any vitamin/mineral deficiencies, dietary problems, hormonal imbalances, etc.

By the way, I enjoyed the niacin flush. Nice, warm, and soothing. I looked forward to it everyday.

I have experimented with Niacin in the past... I think I may be sensitive to it, because the flush I get is much more intense then what you are describing.

At 200mg, my skin goes deep red, and burns like a motherfucker.. I tried again today, same dose, and same result. Although... I do feel pretty damn good when it has nearly worn off, and for a few hours after. Does my experience indicate anything to you?

Have you ever tried Luvox or Insidon ? They affect the sigmoid receptors giving a differrent type of relief to depression.

Correction: I sholud have said Insidon affects the "sigma" receptors. Apparently it has lillte if any re-uptake properties.
In Germany Insidon/Opipramol is prescribed for:
Panikattacken
Phobien
Nervosen Erschopfungszustanden
Depressiven Verstimmungen
&
Wechseljahresbeschwerden

and if you're a guy and suffer from that last one...then you know something really is amiss !

hmm... well I am at a complete loss for what the hell "Wechseljahresbeschwerden" is... are to explain? ;P I am interested always in antidepressants with mood lifting properties however, so I will research these.

QUESTION: Does anyone know of any decently potent MAO-A inhibitors? Preferably one that is a herbal extract, or something else I can get my hands on without prying it from the cold, dead hands of my GP. I realize that MAOIs may not be the answer, but I am the most interested in them atm, and want to at least test the waters... Ones that I have researched:

• Quercetin
• Curcumin/Piperine
• Trans-Resveratrol
• Rhodalia Rosea
• Berberine
• Catechins
• Methylene Blue
• Harmala Alkaloids

***I am not interested in substances that inhibit MAO-A extremely weakly, to the point where their effect (via MAO-A inhibition at least) is negligible. For this reason, the two substances above that stand out to me the most are Methylene Blue, and the Harmala Alkaloids (I know that people seem to dislike Syrian Rue here, but it - along with the possibly better alternative, B. Caapi - are undeniably potent, and I am willing to experiment with varying doses).

I have a difficult time believing that there are no MAOIs that can be had at a decent price online that I can trial to gauge effects (I did find Parnate at pharma1010, but the price was fucking obscene and down-right offensive lol).

All input is very much appreciated In the meantime, you have given me some great alternatives to look into.

[overfocused]

Just thinking, have you tried Tianeptine ? I just ordered some myself today as many people have recommended its potent anti-depressive and mildly stimulating effect (also it should combine nicely with deprenyl). Only its a shame it has such a short half life.

[Doktor]

Hmm... Ive read a lot about it but never really got around to trying it. The short halflife is bothersome, but also i think its strange it is an SSRE... the only reason i could see it working is if the lower level of serotonin causes your brain to produce more, and kind of rapidly cycle through the "fresh" serotonin... Im curious - if this is the case - if adding l-tryptophan to tianeptine would help (i like it more then 5-htp, ill explain why in my next post).

Also, i just picked up methylene blue 5 minutes from my home :p DIRT cheap too, and im fairly sure undiluted. More on that when i get to a keyboard, hate the touchpad on my galaxy s2 :/

[noos]

More on that when i get to a keyboard, hate the touchpad on my galaxy s2 :/

Sorry, OT, but have you tried Swype? It comes in Samsung phones or http://www.swype.com/

[Doktor]

No! I just googled it, and I'm sure I've actually seen it in a Samsung commercial for one of their phones... that's pretty neat! My problem is that I'm just not used to texting on the touch screen yet, and I usually end up just using my index finder (which takes ages :P). I'm actually a computer science graduate and love this kinda stuff, so thanks for bringing it up, I'll give it a whirl!

Anyway, Update:

I'm currently at work writing a proxy for python to interact with the SharePoint SOAP API, so this will be fairly quick:

• My Bacopa results as of late have been slightly disappointing; it seems that you do gain tolerance to Bacopa's anxiolytic effects... fairly rapidly. Yesterday, I decided to give two tabs at once a try (Himalaya brand): no significant anxiolytic effect. The first time I took Bacopa, I had just drank a NOS energy drink, and it completely mitigated the anxiety from the caffeine, as well as provided an enhanced level of "mindfullness". This time, however, I was still anxious, and any of the effects the Bacopa had previously provided were negligible (did not notice any). I will continue to take the Bacopa to see if long-term memory effects still manifest after the acute anxiolytic effects wear off.
• As for the Methylene Blue: After reading that Methylene Blue is used as an anti-bacterial in fish tanks, I took a trip to the local "Big Al's Fish Superstore"; lo-and-behold, they had "Kordon Methylene Blue" in stock, and it only ran me about $6 for 118ml of - I believe - undiluted Methylene Blue. I have read numerous studies stating that Methylene Blue's MAOI effects (predominantly MAO-A) become significant at 100mg, and there are a lot of reports of Serotonin Syndrome in patients recieving intravenous MB (during some sort of procedure) while being medicated with sertonergics for depression. Seeing as I have been taking Cipralex 10mg for the past month, I am going to wait a month before starting MB at doses close to 100mg for depression... However, I am thinking of trying it (in the meantime) as a Nootropic at doses under 200mcg. I have heard of others (MeDieVal comes to mind) who have taken it while being on SSRIs, and I am thinking that this dose should have extremely negligible effects on MAO, and is probably very safe; All reports of Serotonin Syndrome/Toxicity were with doses ~100mg.

A few questions:

• Dose anyone have experience with "Kordon" brand MB, or know anything about it?
  
• Are "Nootropic Level" doses likely to be safe while taking an SSRI/SNRI type medication?

​Also, any general experiences with Methylene Blue? Thank you for all responses!

Edited by Doktor, 18 July 2013 - 04:40 PM.

[mrvontar]

Can you follow up on the methylene blue? Do you have any idea how to get in the US or is it only possible through prescription?

[noos]

Can you follow up on the methylene blue? Do you have any idea how to get in the US or is it only possible through prescription?

In a pet store. I think there is pharm grade too not sure.
There is so whole thread on mb.

[nupi]

Thanks for the replies guys.

_Tom, I've been considering meclobremide, but I don't think I'm going to try Venlafaxine... everything I've heard/read about it says that it has the worst withdrawals of any med.

It has that reputation but frankly, I got off it without any bad effects. It bothered me more that while on it, I had BAD sexual dysfunction (worse than any other SSRI/SNRI I tried, altho likely comparable to Duloxetine) and massive weight gain, vbut it was pretty darn effective at treating full blown MDD.

[overfocused]

psychiatrictimes.com has a very up2date article on Atypical Depression called "Atypical Depression in the 21st Century: Diagnostic and Treatment Issues"

It lists the various treatment and diagnosis options - it seams that the old class of MAOis are still the best options to go, the article list (in order of efficiency)

• Phenelzine (nardil)
• Moclobemide
• Fluoxetine (prozac)
• Sertraline (zoloft)
• Selegiline (deprenyl)
• Imipramine

Interestingly it mentions that not much is known about Venlafaxine or Wellbutrin's effect on atypical depression, which is a surprises given Effexor's reputation for handling treatment resistant depressions.

Edited by overfocused, 20 July 2013 - 01:45 PM.

[Doktor]

psychiatrictimes.com has a very up2date article on Atypical Depression called "Atypical Depression in the 21st Century: Diagnostic and Treatment Issues"

It lists the various treatment and diagnosis options - it seams that the old class of MAOis are still the best options to go, the article list (in order of efficiency)

• Phenelzine (nardil)
• Moclobemide
• Fluoxetine (prozac)
• Sertraline (zoloft)
• Selegiline (deprenyl)
• Imipramine

Interestingly it mentions that not much is known about Venlafaxine or Wellbutrin's effect on atypical depression, which is a surprises given Effexor's reputation for handling treatment resistant depressions.

Hmm... I've tried Prozac up to 20mg, and it didn't seem to do a single thing for me. I still really want to try Nardil or Parnate, but I just know that I won't be able to get prescribed... I might give it a shot... maybe if I try moclobemide first - and report a partial response to it different then the other medications I have taken - then I might have a better shot. Or maybe, it will work instead! But based on anecdotal reports and reviews, it does not seem too effective, so I remain skeptical.

Update:

- Bacopa may in fact still be working; today I took it along with my morning coffee and Vyvanse dose, and it has seemingly had a big impact on my usual anxiety for the first hour or two of the day.... I will continue to take it at 2 tabs a day.

- Day 4 with no Cipralex, and I actually feel better without it. No withdrawals yet, and I don't expect any to be honest, as I was only taking it a month this time, and the last time I didn't fair to badly stopping cold turkey off of twice the dose and for a year straight of treatment. Case and point: SSRIs don't seem to do jack shit for me, not even side effect wise lol. I'm always skeptical of drugs that don't have any side effects, mainly anti-ds.

- I have been taking 500mg of Niacin a day for about 5 days now, and I'm pretty sure it's having a significant impact on my mood and wellbeing; My anxiety is down, mood is up (quite a bit actually), and I feel more alert, more energy... just plain better.. It's impossible for me to nail this to the Niacin right now, as I've just stopped taking my cipralex recently as well... but I am definitely going to keep taking it and see. I plan on escalating the dose slowly in the next week (as the flush gets less intense) to about 1 gram daily, and I will reevaluate after a few days at this dose.

Also, about the niacin... there is a lot of conflicting information on it. The megadoses apparently strain your liver, but I feel like - in a healthy person who rarely drinks - this is negligible. Call me a conspiracy theorist or whatever, but I don't trust a lot of stuff I read about herbs and vitamins... there are two angles of bullshit:

• Naturopaths (or naturopathy enthusiasts) - These people make rediculous claims about what vitamins and herbs can do, and often it is either based off of purely anecdotal reports, or some vague studies which they have dug up in some archive somewhere. I am not discrediting them (or their treatments), but I think a lot the stuff I hear from these sources/people is exaggerated or total bullshit.
• Doctors/Pharmacists/Some Researchers - I don't trust a lot of these people/sources for one reason: Where they get their knowledge or funding for research (Big Pharma). For example, when a new SSRI or some shit comes out, pharmaceutical industry has to get the hype going, and they seem to do this by giving doctors kickbacks, funding studies in their favor... Also, I believe that the educational material on a lot of drugs simply comes from the pharma industry themselves... can you say Bias?

That being said, I am an extremely skeptical person of both sides; im not favoring either side of the coin here. For these reasons, I do not believe Niacin Megadoses are a miracle therapy like some say, but I also doubt they're that dangerous either... I feel like big pharma probably exaggerates the shit out of this, when in reality, WAY more people die EVERY YEAR taking their pills AS PERSCRIBED... and they know these people will die, they are factored into the cost/benefit formula as statistical numbers.

Sorry for the rant, but this has just been bugging me a lot recently; I've been talking to a number of people who have blind faith in their doctors (and the industry at large), and frankly, that scares the living shit out of me. It's just sad the way the whole system doesn't work... Economics, politics, and medicine for that matter.

Anyway, yeah... haven't tried the Methylene Blue yet - a little skittish about the idea. Any suggestions/thoughts?

[overfocused]

I also seam to get very little effect out of SSRI's and I am also skeptical about my p-doc ever giving me Nardil (Parnate does not seam to work as effectively for atypical depression according to the psychiatrictimes.com article). However I noted that in the study with deprenyl they used 20-30mg pr day which is frankly allot and also enough to make it lose its selectivity. As for Moclobemide I to am a little skeptical but it cannot hurt to try it, although you do need to go up to 300-450mg pr day according to the article to get an effect on atypical depression.

There is a interesting report here of combining low dose Selegelin with Moclobemide, to make a poor mans version of a real MAOi.

Edited by overfocused, 20 July 2013 - 04:36 PM.

[Cazorp]

psychiatrictimes.com has a very up2date article on Atypical Depression called "Atypical Depression in the 21st Century: Diagnostic and Treatment Issues"

It lists the various treatment and diagnosis options - it seams that the old class of MAOis are still the best options to go, the article list (in order of efficiency)

• Phenelzine (nardil)
• Moclobemide
• Fluoxetine (prozac)
• Sertraline (zoloft)
• Selegiline (deprenyl)
• Imipramine

Interestingly it mentions that not much is known about Venlafaxine or Wellbutrin's effect on atypical depression, which is a surprises given Effexor's reputation for handling treatment resistant depressions.

Hmm... I've tried Prozac up to 20mg, and it didn't seem to do a single thing for me. I still really want to try Nardil or Parnate, but I just know that I won't be able to get prescribed... I might give it a shot... maybe if I try moclobemide first - and report a partial response to it different then the other medications I have taken - then I might have a better shot. Or maybe, it will work instead! But based on anecdotal reports and reviews, it does not seem too effective, so I remain skeptical.

Update:

- Bacopa may in fact still be working; today I took it along with my morning coffee and Vyvanse dose, and it has seemingly had a big impact on my usual anxiety for the first hour or two of the day.... I will continue to take it at 2 tabs a day.

- Day 4 with no Cipralex, and I actually feel better without it. No withdrawals yet, and I don't expect any to be honest, as I was only taking it a month this time, and the last time I didn't fair to badly stopping cold turkey off of twice the dose and for a year straight of treatment. Case and point: SSRIs don't seem to do jack shit for me, not even side effect wise lol. I'm always skeptical of drugs that don't have any side effects, mainly anti-ds.

- I have been taking 500mg of Niacin a day for about 5 days now, and I'm pretty sure it's having a significant impact on my mood and wellbeing; My anxiety is down, mood is up (quite a bit actually), and I feel more alert, more energy... just plain better.. It's impossible for me to nail this to the Niacin right now, as I've just stopped taking my cipralex recently as well... but I am definitely going to keep taking it and see. I plan on escalating the dose slowly in the next week (as the flush gets less intense) to about 1 gram daily, and I will reevaluate after a few days at this dose.

Also, about the niacin... there is a lot of conflicting information on it. The megadoses apparently strain your liver, but I feel like - in a healthy person who rarely drinks - this is negligible. Call me a conspiracy theorist or whatever, but I don't trust a lot of stuff I read about herbs and vitamins... there are two angles of bullshit:

• Naturopaths (or naturopathy enthusiasts) - These people make rediculous claims about what vitamins and herbs can do, and often it is either based off of purely anecdotal reports, or some vague studies which they have dug up in some archive somewhere. I am not discrediting them (or their treatments), but I think a lot the stuff I hear from these sources/people is exaggerated or total bullshit.
• Doctors/Pharmacists/Some Researchers - I don't trust a lot of these people/sources for one reason: Where they get their knowledge or funding for research (Big Pharma). For example, when a new SSRI or some shit comes out, pharmaceutical industry has to get the hype going, and they seem to do this by giving doctors kickbacks, funding studies in their favor... Also, I believe that the educational material on a lot of drugs simply comes from the pharma industry themselves... can you say Bias?

That being said, I am an extremely skeptical person of both sides; im not favoring either side of the coin here. For these reasons, I do not believe Niacin Megadoses are a miracle therapy like some say, but I also doubt they're that dangerous either... I feel like big pharma probably exaggerates the shit out of this, when in reality, WAY more people die EVERY YEAR taking their pills AS PERSCRIBED... and they know these people will die, they are factored into the cost/benefit formula as statistical numbers.

Sorry for the rant, but this has just been bugging me a lot recently; I've been talking to a number of people who have blind faith in their doctors (and the industry at large), and frankly, that scares the living shit out of me. It's just sad the way the whole system doesn't work... Economics, politics, and medicine for that matter.

Anyway, yeah... haven't tried the Methylene Blue yet - a little skittish about the idea. Any suggestions/thoughts?

If you had a bad reaction to Welbutrin (I know it's not a mao but affects dopamine) then I might be a little wary of mao's because of the way they can raise the amines to unpredictable levels...at least that was the problem in my case. And as for that methylene blue...is that really a good idea to put something meant for fish-tanks into our bodies? I mean , how pure is that stuff? Maybe you guys are just looking for a cheap thrill. Don't mess with your brain too much. OK?

[nupi]

Actually that fishtank MB should be quite pure, otherwise the fish would get poisoned. Even so, Sigma and so forth would have pharmagrade MB for sure. I stilli would not want to risk it but that would definitely be the safest way...

[3AlarmLampscooter]

I'm also not sure at what doses metylene blue causes skin/eye discoloration.

I've taken 200mcg doses for mild nootropic effects (I found this to be optimal, despite 60 being cited) frequently, and this was enough to discolor urine a fair amount.

[kybernetes]

I too suffer from atypical depression along with GAD. Going the pharmaceutical route, low dose (1-5mg) selegeline/deprenyl combined with 50-100mg d-phenylalanine seems to be the best option with caution. The problem is that, at least here in the States, MAOIs are last resort and rarely given out these days because of the potential severe dietary complications, even though they are the best ADs for atypical depression. You can argue with your pdoc and say low dose poses less of a risk and has similar efficacy, but they are stubborn. You could go to a vet and have your dog prescribed it which is common, but I'm remiss to advocate such behavior. I haven't taken it because I found a more natural solution that works for me, which I'll describe, hopefully it may help others.
--------------
Ketogenic diet: green tea, coconut oil/mct oil, grass fed butter, eggyolks, leafy greens, fresh fish, offal (liver, kidneys), and meat.

Supps: a good probiotic, magnesium, zinc, vitamin D3, fish oil

HIIT exercise: short (~20m) intense aerobic activity every day, once in the morning, once at night. My preferred exercise is burpees, simple and portable.

ACT: A more recent variation of CBT, Acceptance & Commitment Therapy incorporates mindfulness into the proven CBT techniques and expands on them. Hard to stay consistent by yourself, maybe get a sponsor/buddy to make sure you commit to your actions.


Meditation: 30m mindfulness meditation every morning
------------
I found that if I do these things consistently, I no longer suffer from any of the symptoms of atypical depression, and my anxiety is improved significantly. The problem is that if I lapse and take a break from 100% compliance, I very quickly can spiral back down to full depression and anxiety. So consistency is key.

[magniloquentc0unt]

wächseljahrbeschwerden is probably translated to "seasonal affective disorder" i believe
by the way, im pretty anhedonic, disthymic, with hypersomniac, asthenic and hyperfagia symptoms, and im doing fairly good on Tianeptine which ive been taking for the past 4 months. Doing good on the emotional aspect but id like it if it would push me more to do things, im still way too lazy passive, which i wasnt with prozac (still i would not suggest prozac to anyone, except maybe a very melancholic eunuch)

i also tried a lot of plants before, and while they seem to work slightly, my conclusion is that they are way to weak. DOnt spend too much money on that, is my advice

[jack black]

I really cannot recommend CBT enough, I have a stange mixture of depression, ADHD-PI, hypersexuality, anxiety, anti-social behavior and have had better effect out of reading Feeling Good by David Burnes (one of the pioneers of CBT). In particular start running a diary of your daily dysfunctional thoughts, this step alone will slowly but surely start correcting your thinking. As for meds Zoloft, wellbutrin and deprenyl seams to help slightly but my current supplement stack of CDP choline, SAM-e, Omega 3 and vinpocetine seams to be better.

 

Sorry to revive this old thread, but this is way more significant than what people post here these days (was pre-2015 the heyday of this forum, and is it declining since?).

 

Based on this recommendation i bought the book (only $3.70 on amazon) and feel encouraged based on the fist 4 chapters. Supposedly there are studies that compared reading this book (bibliotherapy) vs Prozac and the book won big time.

 

Any recent readers? I'll update with results later.

[jack black]

Update with results after reading the book (the most of that, I skipped the last chapters dealing with pharmacology of depression, off topic IMO).

First, the $3.7 pocketbook version is hard to read, but was very portable during my vacation, so it was not too bad overall.

2nd, I did not do the prescribed exercises on paper, as I read that while traveling, etc. I did some of that in head, will try to redo later on paper.

3rd, it's not an easy read when you get to the middle, the beef of the book. Some days I only did a couple of difficult pages, and accelerated greatly when easier chapters.

 

Results: being informed and having just an insight how we all have negative/distorted thoughts about self, our interactions, and other people is incredibly helpful. Being able to see those thoughts from a "3rd person" perspective, they are obviously wrong and often ridiculous. That knowledge itself makes me feel better about myself and lifted my emotions already. Unfortunately, the book makes me realize how I'm addicted to personal success, acceptation by others, and being loved to feel good about myself. Fortunately, I have all of those now, but my luck may run out at some point. The book did not give enough guidance (IMHO) to wean from that addiction. I dunno, maybe I need to pay big bucks for real cognitive behavioral therapy, and not just the $3.70 book version?

 

Anyhow, this is was well worth the cost (coming from a person who spent $$$$ for all kinds of supplements and meds).

 

Edit: i just read wiki on CBT and there is Computerized cognitive behavioral therapy available in a widespread use. I'm going to explore this: http://psycheducatio...for-depression/

 

BTW, basic psychology with CBT elements should really be taught in schools!

 

 

Edited by jack black, 22 August 2018 - 05:26 PM.